paedophile and fine with it

[The Beholder]

i am a 24 year old male. when i was 12, i reached puberty while attending a k-12 school. up until that point, i had had absolutely no sexual feelings or experiences. but when i reached puberty, i was suddenly overwhelmed by the sheer strength of my sexual responses. talking to a girl tended to cause me to noticeably shake, and i couldn't even look them in the eye. this is unusual enough, as i'd never seen any other students have such a strong response, and i was laughed at for being so nervous. but the really unusual thing was that i felt this strong attraction to female students from every grade in the school. while the junior high classes were in their own part of the school, whenever i went to shared parts of the school such as the library, i felt the same attraction to the girls from the elementary classes as i did to those my own age. this was not a thing i acquired, it was from the first moment. there was simply no distinction in my mind between being attracted to a 12 year old girl from my own class, or a woman in her 20s that i saw on tv or something, or to a 4 or 5 year old girl. the attraction was instant, incredibly strong, and exactly the same no matter the age. i actually didn't think there was anything unusual about it at first, i was a bit distracted by the fact that i was feeling attraction at all, because it was so new and so intense. i never discussed it with anyone, and i did not have friends and did not experience the usual peer pressure to like what the other guys liked. as a result, this never went away. my attraction is still much the same, in both intensity and range. the distinct shapes of the female body attracts me very strongly, and those shapes are noticeable on girls from as soon as they lose their baby fat at 2 or 3, to when they start to sag around the late 30s (some later, a few MUCH later). i have no particular age preference within that range, in fact i have to consciously remind myself of the difference.

i'm perfectly okay with all that. i don't think there's anything wrong with it, and it certainly doesn't make me a danger to anyone, particularly since i find nonconsent to be not only ethically disgusting, but sexually disgusting. none of this is the reason i'm here. unlike most self-described paedophiles i've heard about, i don't have an unhealthy obsession with children or childhood, and i don't even like children most of the time. i'm not missing out on anything, because there is no difference between my attraction to minors and to adults, it's the same attraction to me, so i don't feel like i'm settling for anything by being limited to adult women for actual relationships.

i'm here because i'm constantly afraid for my life. this society currently has a witch-hunt mentality towards paedophiles, based on the completely unjustifiable idea that being attracted to children inclines one to hurt them. it doesn't. i feel no such compulsion. as i said, the idea of doing anything to a girl, of any age, that she does not want done, is one of the most disgusting and off-putting things i can think of. but because people believe such things, i am constantly terrified. for over a decade, i've lived in fear, unable to open up to people. i'm always afraid i'm going to let something slip and end up being dragged through the streets by a pitchfork-wielding mob. i've had almost no friends, and i find it very difficult to have even a brief casual conversation with someone i don't know. i never finished school, and the only work i was able to get was in a store where families shop. this obviously increases my terror tenfold, because every time a young girl walks by, or worse, talks to me, i feel like i'm going to die of sheer terror. my attraction is just as automatic and powerful as it was when i was 12, so the strain of trying to keep it from showing externally causes me actual physical pain. trying to keep my breathing from quickening, trying to will my eyes not to dilate and my face not to flush and sweat, it hurts. it hurts constantly. even when it comes to boys, to whom i feel no attraction whatsoever, i'm so scared that someone would falsely accuse me of being attracted to them, because that would certainly expose me as being attracted to girls, that i feel a strong anxiety around boys as well. i think i'm paedophobic, and i'm sure i suffer from some severe social anxieties. even though, as i said above, i'm capable of enjoying extremely satisfying relationships with adult women, i'm too terrified to have such relationships for fear that they would discover that i'm also attracted to young girls. i feel absolutely hopeless, and the thought of spending the rest of my life in hiding is unbearable. i often think that just coming out publicly and letting someone kill me would be better than living with this pain for the rest of my life.

my sexual attractions, in both their range and intensity (someone on a site like this suggested i might be hypersexual) bring me great joy and do no harm to anyone. but how do i learn to exist in a society that believes people like me are monsters, without that fear depriving me of every valuable experience i could have? is there another way to not live in crippling fear aside from dying?

every other place i've gone to for support and advice about this has made things worse, and i expect nothing different here. but i don't have any other options.

[LaLa]

Hello, Beholder, welcome

I hope very much that being in this community won't make things worse for you!!

Maybe you could summarize some things that people in other forums have hurt you with, so that we could understand better what would be inappropriate to mention .

You mentioned that somebody had suggested that you might be hypersexual. Well, that sounds like a very logical conclusion - but does it make you feel somehow worse? Hypersexual doesn't imply dangerous, as you've also explained. And it can be obviously also pleasant, as you've said. You can be like this all your life. But there are several ways of living with your characteristics and your current-one doesn't seem the best at all, as you suffer so much and lack friendships and intimate relationships. Yes, dying is an obvious "answer" which occurs to many of us when we are to blinded by our problems and can't see any of the many (or at least few) different possibilities. It's great that you're searching for the much better-ones.

So, what are your options? I think there might be a way to hormonally influence your over-reactions which could remove your every-day scaring situations when you face a child. This might be a useful supplement to a deeper approach (which might also be the only-one - without medication): A professional (psychotherapist) could help you to figure out much more about your problem than you now realize and also help you to find solutions. It might take several months, maybe even years, but the first benefits of therapy might be visible pretty soon. I don't say that you need therapy "to get rid of your pedophilia", I really don't. What I think is most important for you is to find a way how to stop your suffering related to it, how to deal with your fears of being seen as a monster, ... Of course I cannot know how the therapy would proceed. All I can tell you my non-professional an subjective insights:

- It seems to me that you over-estimate the risk of being "recognized as a pedophile". You're not the kind of pedophile who is focused on children, you're not obsessed by fantasies and/or urges, you're very well aware of not being dangerous. Your only behaviour which could "reveal something strange" about you is your physical reaction to children - and this could very probably be managed by CBT (cognitive-behavioral therapy), perhaps along with some medication. So after some time, needed to achieve some behavioral changes, you wouldn't "behave/react weirdly" and so wouldn't risk to "be accused..."

- I think that you over-estimate the need of being understood and accepted by "everybody around". I know you didn't tell anything like this, but I recognize it hidden in what you said. I think you don't need to discuss this with friends or your partner; they don't have to know everything about you. As far as you would be OK with it (not so scared, ...) - probably after therapy - there wouldn't be any reason to mention it. The reason why you feel now such a need to "tell everybody or at least somebody" (-depending on your mood, I suppose), is that you've put a considerable pressure on hiding it and so the idea of telling/revealing represents a relief and, in the case of talking to a friend, a wish to be accepted and understood. Fortunately, there is a place where it is appropriate to talk about such issues and where you'll be understood and accepted (and even helped!): a therapy room. Discussing your problem with one understanding, caring, non-judgmental person would be enough to remove the wish to be understood and accepted by everybody.

I'm afraid it's too complicatedly expressed, so I'll try it also differently, at least about one part of it: The main problem about your (missing) relationships seems to be that you suppose that having a close-enough friend or a partner would mean to feel urged to tell him/her "the truth about this issue" (to feel accepted, ...) together with the fear of being rejected which (-the fear) causes the opposite urge to hide the truth.

I'm sorry for being possibly confusing. Anyway; I hope the main message is clear: There IS a way out of your fears and struggles, there IS a way to change and to become able to have "normal" relationships: A good therapy. It can take some time to find the right therapist (don't give up after some bad experiences!) and the right treatment (possibly including medication), but it's worth the effort and can bring you much more that suicide would...

What do you think?

Take care!

[The Beholder]

well, the first place i went when i decided i needed to find some kind of help, if only anonymously, was a place called "pedophiles anonymous". it was closed 2 days later, and that scared me out of my wits. the second place i went was B4U-ACT. i joined their peer support group, and they very quickly kicked me out. it seems the fact that i DON'T obsess about children and childhood was something like a blasphemy to them. they said i wasn't a "child lover", and that i was some sort of sociopath only capable of physical attraction. then i posted on "understanding pedophilia", where i'd gotten the link to B4U-ACT, to suggest he not refer people there anymore, and discussions with him quickly turned into him telling me that my understanding of my own feelings had to be wrong because they didn't match his textbook definitions. then he stopped answering my messages.

i don't want to alter my hormones. sexual feelings are immensely positive things (unless you live in a sex negative culture like ours). it seems like self harm to modify myself to accommodate the prejudices of others.

i'm terrified of mental health professionals. i've been told that they report paedophiles to the police to avoid getting sued when they "inevitably" offend.

i can tell you right now that having one person genuinely understand and accept me only increases my anxiety. it's a taste of freedom. it only drives home how imprisoned i am. i'm going to copy this from an e-mail i sent to "understanding pedophilia", because typing it up again would make me cry. it was in response to something he said about "losing control". he said " If you can control the impulses you feel[...]", and i responded first with this:

"but what you're saying about "control" doesn't factor into it at all. i find nonconsent to be absolutely repulsive, not just morally, but sexually. as stong as my arousal is, i can't be aroused by someone who is unhappy. my pleasure comes from the thought of GIVING pleasure. i don't have to "control" anything because i have no impulse that could possibly hurt anyone. the exception is myself. if i entered a relationship with someone, i'd either have to keep the range of my attractions to myself and feel horrible for misleading my partner, or open up to them and risk losing everything. that's the only thing that is difficult to control, i have to keep myself from entering into relationships for my own safety, no matter how positive the relationship might otherwise be. "control" simply isn't an issue, because i see sexuality as an incredibly positive thing, and nonconsent as absolutely abominable. i can't even stand nonconsent in fantasy. many people enjoy rape fantasy or erotic literature about rape, but rape is, to me, the least erotic thing imaginable, perhaps even less than the male body, which also repulses me very strongly (though not morally. if i had a choice in the matter, i'd rather be attracted to men as well, but i have no such choice)."

then to elaborate on that point, i told him about the most important thing that has ever happened to me:

"about a year ago, i met a girl. she is about a year younger than me. we shared common interests and met on a website, then met in person and started a friendship. i liked her a lot in our online conversations and knew that i wanted to be friends with her, but when i met her in person i did everything i could to not allow her appearance to sink in, for fear i'd find her attractive. eventually i couldn't ignore it anymore and realised i was incredibly attracted to her. as such, i redoubled my efforts to put that out of my mind. as a result, she got the impression that i didn't like her much, and was just putting up with her. eventually i let slip that i found her attractive, and she initially did not believe me (what i said before about low self esteem and conventionally-unattractive appearance) but we started a relationship. a very shaky start at that, because of how hesitant i was. she thought i was just extremely shy, or not that into her, or both.

after a few months, we'd started to get very close, and that's when i "lost control" in the sense i described earlier. i let slip that there was something about me that she probably wouldn't like. i desperately wanted to share myself with her completely, but i was literally fearing for my life. after a long period of her asking what it was, she eventually convinced me to tell her. we went somewhere nobody would overhear, and i told her everything. the next day she said she didn't want to see me anymore, and i had a panic attack, one that necessitated my throwing away some codeine pills i had from a recent operation, as i couldn't stop thinking about how slowly i'd have to take them all to avoid vomiting them up. after a very painful period, we started talking again, and she said that maybe we could be friends again, but that things couldn't go back to the way they were, because what i'd told her made her feel sick. but she was incredible, a wonderful and intelligent human being capable of overcoming whatever life throws at her. she started to realise that how she felt was based on a prejudice, that there couldn't be anything wrong with my feeling a certain way if i didn't hurt anyone, or as was the case, didn't even desire to hurt anyone. because i'd put my life on the line for her, and because she'd accepted me for what i am, we became closer than ever and have an emotional and sexual relationship that is so wonderful that it brings me to tears of joy whenever i think about it. she is sleeping beside me as i write."

[LaLa]

So it means you're still with her? That' great!!! Or did I misunderstand?

(I plan to write more when you'll have answered, now I have to go...)

[The Beholder]

yes, i am still with her. this actually makes for extra difficulty, because she has her own issues (which i won't discuss here) that she'd like to talk to a professional about, and i can't be there for her.

[malign]

You repeatedly mention that consent is a requirement for sexuality in your mind, which is fine as far as it goes. But, it seems to me that you're a little vague, at least in what you've written so far, on what constitutes consent.

A child can be convinced to do sexual things willingly with an adult, but to me, that's not true consent, because they don't know beforehand what sex entails. They don't have the maturity to handle the complex issues, which don't just involve physical pleasure, that arise when a person becomes sexually active.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on the subject of consent by a juvenile.

[Musicman]

Hey, I just saw your post on Psychforums right before checking this site, so I figured I'd introduce myself. People here call me MM, and I'm this site's resident pedophile. Before I continue, I should let you know that while everyone here is friendly and understanding, a very large amount of people in this community suffered extremely abusive (sexual among others) childhoods, and as a result, will not or cannot offer their help. We must respect that. The truth is, while I credit this community as one of the reasons I'm still alive, and while I'm eternally grateful for that, you'll probably find very little help here. I received lot of help here in the past, but the few members who really supported me and helped me through my darkest times are long gone. That being said, there are members here (LaLa and Mark "Malign" to name a couple) who will help to the best of their abilities. While I encourage you to talk to anyone you can about this, don't be disappointed if your problems aren't solved here.

You definitely harbor negative thoughts about B4U-ACT, and I don't blame you one bit. I was a member there for a while, though I rarely posted. Eventually, I voiced my concerns about the organization, and received a lot of backlash. I felt that the intent of the organization is not quite as genuine as they lead people to believe. They don't take an official stance on whether sexual activity with children is wrong. They discourage people from acting out, but that's primarily because it's against the law -- not because it's necessarily harmful to children. I feel like a lot of members there want to legalize sexual relationships between adults and minors, and that's definitely not what I believe in. Having said that, there are members there with all sorts of different views, and they certainly don't all believe that these relationships should be legalized.

After voicing my concerns, I received a lot of backlash. However, I also received an interesting email of support. I was contacted by a member who said that he'd previously voiced the very same concerns, and received the same reaction. Because of that, he went on to start a new organization for non-offending pedophiles called Virtuous Pedophiles. VirPed is very clear about their intents and motivations, unlike B4U-ACT. I would strongly recommend you join their support group. Most of them are much friendlier, and I think they're far more helpful.

Lastly, as far as receiving professional help goes, it's a sticky situation. Many (if not most) therapists are not even aware that there is a difference between pedophiles and molesters. I've read of a lot of horror stories of people being reported simply for admitting to their attractions. However, there are precautions you can take to avoid a situation like that. One thing I cannot stress enough is to look for a therapist who deals with sexual issues. Those can be sex addiction, porn addiction, homosexuality, etc. Those types of therapists are far more likely to understand. Secondly, they've been trained in dealing with different sexual issues, so they're far more likely to be able to help. Even if they, themselves, cannot offer you help, they can almost certainly refer you to someone who can help you. It is also very important to ask the therapist what he/she reports for before divulging any information. By following these steps, you'll definitely increase your odds of finding a helpful therapist. I've been with my current therapist for one-and-a-half years now, and I've got to say that he's helped me out tremendously.

I would also recommend going to http://Mentalhelp.net and using their "Therapist Search" feature that can be found on their front page. After putting in your zip code, check that you want it to search for specialists. Then choose either "Sexual Disorders" or "Sexuality & Sexual Problems." By no means is this a comprehensive list of therapists near you who may be able to help, but you may get lucky. I know that my friend did this, and he found a therapist who could help him. Lastly, you can check VirPed's site for help finding a specialist. If I remember correctly, they offer advice and names of specialists who may be in your area.

Good luck!

[The Beholder]

MM, the only thing i agreed with the people at B4U-ACT about was that sexual activity with children is not inherently wrong. what i was appalled by was how little they actually thought of children. they did not acknowledge that children are different from each other, and have individual personalities and different capacities to understand things. they seemed to be obsessed with the cultural notion of what a child is, a sort of "ideal child" in the platonic sense. it was not merely stereotypical, it was absolutely dehumanising. they spoke of children as objects, not people. they said that a relationship with a child was totally different than one with an adult, and when i said "if it really was totally different, i wouldn't want it", that was apparently the height of heresy, and they kicked me out of their cult. those people have a totally different issue than i do. while i merely see the same attractive feminine features in young girls as i do in older girls, those people obsessively fetishise childhood itself. they're not attracted to children, they're obsessed with childhood, and most of them said they wanted to BE children, and that they disliked adult. that sounds to me like a serious psychological problem, one i not only do not suffer from, i don't relate to it in the slightest.

as for virped, those people focus a lot on self-hatred, and speak about themselves as wrong and needing to be fixed. if they suffer from an obsession like i just described, that might be true. but if they're like me, that's a horrible attitude to have. if i hated myself as much as i fear others, i would not be alive right now.

admin, to explain my view on that, i have to describe my hypothetical view, separately from what i live by

hypothetically, from my understanding of the science of the matter, all a human child lacks is a sexual drive; the ability to be attracted to another person and feel compelled to be sexual. but they are capable of sexual experience. this is no different from our closest biological relatives, the bonobo chimpanzee. they're capable of making their own decisions. in regards to maturity, i think most of the "complex issues" you describe are cultural ideas (relationship structures, social conventions, etiquette, and so on). like the notion of "childhood innocence", and the sex-negativity of our culture which teaches that sexuality is shameful (for all ages), these things are purely made up, and i don't believe they should be taught to people at all. the only issues relevant to whether to have sexual contact with someone are the obvious ones of pregnancy and disease, and the more complex issue of whether one's feelings of affection are genuine or a mere infatuation. in general, i believe our culture stunts the natural rate at which individuals should mature emotionally and intellectually, and in all areas of life (here's a favourite video of mine on this subject:

). i think with better education, children would be more mature earlier in life (a prospect i'm sure the ACTers find utterly horrifying). as it is, most people my own age are STILL not mature enough to make informed decisions about their sexuality and relationships. nobody considers it immoral to have sex with an idiot (and far too few find it distasteful). once this witch hunt is over and these things are allowed to be studied scientifically and without censoring, i'm convinced that what i've said will be verified, and future legal systems will have to change to accommodate this. obviously, children will still need to be protected from being coerced, and i think the answer will be parental consent. just as a child can't legally consent to a major operation, but their parents are authorised to make the informed decision, i think similar laws will be created in regards to childhood sexuality. i fully expect all this to happen, but i also expect it to be long after i'm dead and buried.

as for my own life, let me first say that i certainly have no intention of testing my hypothesis. secondly, the issue is extremely unlikely to even come up in my life. i don't have family who have children, i don't have friends who do, or friends period, and i don't go places where i'd meet young girls. most children are quite immature, which i can't stand. the only children i could stand to so much as be around are those who are exceptionally mature and intelligent. in terms of my sex life, i'm only attracted to women who are very intelligent and very mature, as well as thoughtful and sceptical. while i'm physically attracted to a large number of women (and a wide variety, including body types most men consider repulsive), i can only develop a deep affection for those with personalities like that, and the idea of sexual contact with someone i don't have feelings for is not appealing to me. also, because this society has taught women to see men as basically walking rape machines, rapes waiting to happen, and to treat us with suspicion, i could only feel comfortable with sexual involvement with a woman she initiates it, with no provocation from me. this is to the extent that i don't even express attraction to women, for fear of being taken as shallow and overly forward. the result is that most people assume i'm gay.

if somehow i beat all the odds and met an underage girl who possessed the same intelligence and maturity i value in adult women, and we became friends, and she expressed a desire for sexual involvement, and we talked over all these issues at length, and she convinced me that she was capable of making an informed choice, i'd still have to turn her down as long as law forbids it. honestly, the thought of how heartbreaking that would be to her is more than enough motivation for me to never let things get that far.

i imagine you're going to ban me now.

[LaLa]

I don't think that anybody is going to ban you. (But I haven't consult it with other moderators and admins, so it's just my assumption.)

I can react only for myself (-writing my opinion):

First of all, I don't agree with you about the ability of a child to make a good/right/"informed" choice. I don't think that someone here would. (Well, maybe if you talked about "children above 16", for instance; 16 is the age of consent in some states and I suppose there is a psychological reason for it.) I can understand your hypothetical case of a hypothetical child, but I also think that there isn't any child which would meet the criteria you described. I would even admit that if there was, then I'd be considering to agree with you in this. But that's not important, as I believe such children don't exist (-yes; I don't have a proof, as well as you don't have a proof that there are such children).

I'll tell you what are my opinions mainly based on: Concrete people who were involved in a sexual behaviour with an adult, wanting it, then some of them even being able to enjoy it in a way, but then being traumatized all their lives, blaming themselves for what they've done, calling themselves "sluts (and worse)", being unable of healthy relationships, ... (You apparently haven't seen any post of a person like this. We may repeat her ad infinitum that "it was not her fault", but she keeps feeling "dirty" and "bad" for allowing "those things" to happen, for agreeing and maybe sometimes even enjoying it. I suppose you'd say that it's only the problem of the social bias and pressure - that the "sick" society tells her that "it was wrong", that's why she feels so bad and dirty. Well; I admit that it's a matter of point of view. But the society won't change to such an extent that this pressure would disappear, that's sure. And thus all children need to be protected from making these choices. ) You might also say that "those were not mentally mature enough when it happened, that's the only problem; I was talking only about mentally mature children". OK; we may see it also this way. But how could you tell/find out, being in that situation when it happened, that they were not "mature enough"?? How could you be sure that you would be able to distinguish it and to "foresee the future", so to say - tell that "this will lead to a trauma, that will not"? All just theoretical questions; I believe all you've said about you in the end of the post.

You obviously don't like the fact that people who want protect children take them as if they were all "identical". But laws, even moral laws, have to be like that - they have to protect to an extent broad enough for everybody. (Of course, then there are lawcourts where concrete circumstances of cases are considered, ...) I don't think this would ever change and I hope it won't.

It's also a matter of responsibility: How could somebody take the responsibility for possibly traumatizing a child?

You like to look at things from scientific perspective, so here is an article about some discoveries of science in the context of teenagers' decision-making:

http://blogs.scienti...out-the-brakes/

You may notice there that they even don't consider teens to be "fully responsible" for their crimes (as homicide!) - so how could they be allowed to take the full responsibility for their sexual behaviour with an adult? How could somebody allow people to make, as minors, decisions which would then trigger a trauma for their life and the trauma would be even worse - associated with the feeling of guilt that they agreed themselves?

Anyway; I wonder how much this kind of discussions is beneficial for you. I don't refuse to discuss, but... from my point of view, the problem is elsewhere - not in your opinions, because, as you say, they are not of a kind that they could lead you to do "something harmful". For instance; I can be an atheist in a community / environment of believers and as far as I'm a moral person and don't do any harm, the problem is not in my lack of faith or my opinions. The problem may come in case they are intolerant to atheists. This would be similar to your case. But... for me, as an atheist, it would need a considerable effort and many activities to fake being a believer, while for you, there isn't anything but not telling others what you think. So... would you agree if I reformulated your problem in a more general way, saying that your problem is to keep one secret about yourself? Maybe discussing this particular problem (=keeping a secret and not suffering due to it) in more details would be the right and helpful thing to do, because... I don't think you believe that you'd be able to change the opinion of everybody around , so why to try? So far, it was important to explain your opinions, so that we could understand your position. You're also sure that you don't want to change that position, so there wouldn't be a point in arguing with you. That's why I'd like to refocus this thread to your personal suffering. So; do you agree and do you agree also about my general formulation of your problem? How would you formulate/express it in one sentence??

[TheBeheld]

Just popping in to identify myself as the Beholder's friend whom he told. I'm here to help answer questions and stuff I guess.

[The Beholder]

it's not so much that my suffering comes from keeping the secret. it's not that i need acceptance. i actually am atheist, and totally open about it, and i'm not accepted for it. i don't actually care if people don't accept me for being the only thing i can honestly be (though i'd obviously like to be accepted, and am by a few people). the problem is that when people don't accept me as being atheist, they dislike me, but people who didn't accept me as a paedophile would want me dead, if not actively try to kill me. my issue is that i'm fearing for my life. it's really that simple.

[LaLa]

I can see your concern.

But I have to ask: What do you think about the fact that there are many pedophiles in the world, but they haven't been killed by anybody?

[LaLa]

Another important question: You are as you are since being 12. What triggered now your fear, so that you decided to join some web forums/communities trying to find help? Did something special happen in your life? (Or it's related only to "the issues your girlfriend would like to solve now"?)

[The Beholder]

i spent most of my time by myself for the last decade. i homeschooled for a while, then worked a couple different jobs. this fear only dawned on me slowly. but now i live on my own and i work somewhere where i see a lot of people, and a lot of kids, every day. i started realising things i never noticed before, like how difficult it is to tell the difference between girls close to my own age and girls just a bit younger but out of my socially acceptable range. i can't tell a 17 year old from a 20 year old at a glance. i started to feel like i could never open up to anyone. and now that this relationship has happened, which took me totally by surprise, and i've opened up to one person, suddenly i know what i've been missing. i'd gotten used to this imprisonment, but then i got a taste of freedom, and it's made the prison seem so much more real.

yes, there are many paedophiles in the world. i've heard that studies have shown that up to 20 percent of people have a sexual response to images of minors. but most are in denial and the rest are in hiding. it's no different from homosexuals in the past. i have goals in life, things i want to accomplish and contribute to the world, i don't want to hold a similar place in history as matthew sheppard.

my companion has made a post, would a mod please be kind enough to approve it?

[Musicman]

I think it's a really awful assumption to assume that the folks at B4U-ACT are crazy simply for wanting to be children. I'll admit that I'd like that very much. I wasn't exactly a happy child, and I took my entire childhood for granted. I (and presumably those at B4U-ACT) see a beauty in childhood that I assume much of the world sees (though to a lesser extent). It's interesting that you say the folks at B4U-ACT merely see children as objects, when you're the one who's saying you can't really stand children. Look, I don't see eye-to-eye with most of them, but in the time that I was there, I didn't get the feeling that they didn't care about the well-being of children. I think the very worst you can say about them is that their sexual desires are clouding their reasoning. It would be any pedophile's dream for children to be able to consent to sex, and that's difficult for many to let go of. These people aren't sick. They're just misinformed.

I'm not here to argue whether sex with children is inherently bad or not. Contrary to what most people here probably believe, I think it's not. Having said that, we're in a society that doesn't accept it, and the pain it causes children is very real.

Also, I don't know where you get the idea that VirPed is just formed on self-hating pedophiles. Actually, both founders (who I knew before the site was even created) agree that one should not hate himself simply for being a pedophile. Furthermore, of all the members that I know there, I can't think of one that could be described as a self-hating pedophile. There probably are some in the group, but then again, you'll find them in any support community.

Lastly, I gave you what's probably the best advice you'll ever get for finding a therapist who can help you with these issues. I strongly suggest you follow the advice if you want help.

[The Beholder]

my issue with the ACTers was that they had a romanticised, and i would say delusional, impression of what childhood is. i do not believe for a second that any of them have a regular physical attraction to children. if that were the case, only 10 percent of them should have been homosexuals, as is average in any group. i did not talk to a single one of them who had any interest in children of the other gender. they seemed to be seeking something about themselves and their own childhood that they felt was lost, and their sexual feelings came from that, not from attraction. they actually spoke of physical attraction as something crass and distasteful, like children were too perfect and divine to be subject to something as baser and crude as sexual attraction. they actually had the same view of childhood as most people have, as being some sort of magical neverland dream world of innocence (a notion i have found repulsive ever since i WAS a child). the only difference is that they feel that this childhood innocence inspires romantic love in them. i don't think they'll ever genuinely know what love is. all they need to know is how old someone is to know they're "in love" with them. they are messed. in. the. head. i was creeped out by talking to them, and i never want to be compared with them. their issue is of a wholly unrelated sort to mine. i don't want to come across as if i'm trying to demonise them or something, but they have serious psychological problems and need a lot of help. my attraction to young girls is not psychological in nature, because it's not of a different nature than my attraction to adult women. the only psychological problems i have are my paedophobia and my social anxieties. my paedophilia is not something that needs to be fixed or cured, which is what virped seems to be all about, treating it like an illness to be either cured or coped with. if i ever thought of it like that, i wouldn't be able to live.

i really think that the only thing that makes me different from the average person is that i have a really strong sex drive. my hormones are probably just a little bit strong. i'm a big guy with lots of body hair, very strong teeth with extra roots, wide feet, very strong stomach acid that gives me a lot of trouble, and i sweat a lot. i'm like an evolutionary throwback. sexually, in addition to my sort of hair-trigger sexual response, i'm attracted to an unusually wide variety of body types compared to most men, and i find men very strongly repulsive. for a long time, masturbation was like a chore, something to keep my libido down, but when i started falling for the girl i'm now with, and masturbation became more meaningful, i discovered first that i experience the kind of full-body orgasm that conventional wisdom says that only women experience, and that i can ejaculate multiple times without losing my erection, if i'm feeling particularly aroused. clearly my sex drive is just naturally very intense. i think all that happened is that when i hit puberty i was so strongly and immediately attracted to girls that i didn't have time to build the sort of peer-pressure-driven mental blocks that most people form to keep them from having "inappropriate" attractions. notice how people hit puberty around age 12 and are attracted to others their own age, but just a few years later would be revolted by the idea of being attracted to a 12 year old. that's not a biological change, that's learned. i never had a chance to learn it, because attraction hit me like a train from the first moment. and i really don't care. the same peer pressure would have also kept me from liking large women or flat-chested women or older women. i like finding people attractive, i wish i was attracted to everyone. the problem is that i live in a sex-negative society that treats men as if they all have a rapist inside them just waiting to come out, and that being attracted to someone is at best a bit shameful, and at worst absolutely monstrous. it's not, it's wonderful. if i had nothing to fear from the judgement (and retaliation) of others, seeing an attractive female (of any age) would just make me feel happy, even though i wouldn't actually want to be with most of them. it's cruel to replace that joy with fear.

[Musicman]

So your issue lies in people romanticizing childhood? Look, I really don't think you need to be sick in the head to do that -- even if it's to the extreme. There's a lot of unhappiness in this world, and people feel they would be much happier as children. It actually makes a hell of a lot of sense. As a child, one has few responsibilities. A primary concern could be, who am I going to play with today? or what are we going to play today? Assuming that one's coming from a decent family, that child has got most everything he needs set out in front of him. Basically, his life is a lot simpler. Yes, I'm definitely one of those pedophiles who romanticizes childhood, and I don't think it's your place to call me (or anyone else who shares similar beliefs) "sick in the head." You, yourself, are a pedophile. Pedophiles are perhaps the last people on earth I'd ever expect to be passing judgement on others; especially other non-offending pedophiles. For the record, I also think you have no right to tell people what love is and that they've never been in love. Personally, I'm like a bisexual pedophile. I'm attracted to both men and woman as well as boys and girls, with children being a much stronger attraction (and the stronger of the two being boys). I can also say that I can think of two people my own age who I have felt a strong romantic attraction to. I've never been in love with a child, but there are many children who I've loved, oftentimes simply for being children. Tell me that I'm "messed in the head" for that if you want, but I'd question which one of us is truly sicker. I see children as people with equal rights as the rest of society. I think children need to be protected, and I'd never harm one. On the other hand, you can't stand most children and you hate everything about childhood. I strongly suggest you reevaluate everything because you're coming across as really high up on your horse.

And once again, VirPed does not preach self-hatred. Rather, we all agree that while we need help, the safety of children is of the utmost importance. VirPed does not view us as potential offenders, and they don't call us sick for having these fantasies.

[malign]

Um, given that our middle name is "Support", I'd rather that none of us talk about other people being sick in the head. Even people who aren't here ...

Everyone's different; that seems like the basis on which we'd all like to be accepted. I hope that's not going to be too difficult.

[LaLa]

i've opened up to one person, suddenly i know what i've been missing. i'd gotten used to this imprisonment, but then i got a taste of freedom, and it's made the prison seem so much more real

Try to consider the similarity with this analogy:

"I never had a partner, I believed that I never would, felt imprisoned in my solitude. Then suddenly I entered a wonderful romantic relationship. Suddenly I knew what I was missing. I got the taste of love and sex! Now I'm suffering even more because I realize that I cannot be in love and have sex with everybody; only that one person! It makes my imprisonment even worse!"

Can you see my point?

It's wonderful that you have an understanding girl and I think it may also feel good that some people "on the web" are willing to listen to you and your opinion and don't reject you as a person because of disagreeing with you. But why would you have to be understood and accepted by "everybody"??

[The Beholder]

Everyone's different; that seems like the basis on which we'd all like to be accepted. I hope that's not going to be too difficult.

what i'm trying to point out is that those people have a psychological problem that needs to be solved, not accepted. the same as my social anxieties need to be solved.

Try to consider the similarity with this analogy:

"I never had a partner, I believed that I never would, felt imprisoned in my solitude. Then suddenly I entered a wonderful romantic relationship. Suddenly I knew what I was missing. I got the taste of love and sex! Now I'm suffering even more because I realize that I cannot be in love and have sex with everybody; only that one person! It makes my imprisonment even worse!"

i'm poly, so that point is pretty well lost on me.

It's wonderful that you have an understanding girl and I think it may also feel good that some people "on the web" are willing to listen to you and your opinion and don't reject you as a person because of disagreeing with you. But why would you have to be understood and accepted by "everybody"??

are you kidding me? seriously?

MM, i'm not replying to you anymore. stop talking to me.

[malign]

what i'm trying to point out is that those people have a psychological problem that needs to be solved, not accepted. the same as my social anxieties need to be solved.

But it seems as if you're saying that they need to solve their own psychological problem, but yours needs to be solved by everyone else changing their attitude towards you.

The way I look at it, people deserve to be accepted. Ideas, actions, problems ... don't enjoy the same protection. I accept that you have certain ideas; that's not the same as agreeing with the ideas or accepting the conclusions.

[The Beholder]

my problems are externally caused, theirs are internal. it's like the distinction between a homosexual man and a gynophobic man. if a homosexual man fears mistreatment from others, that doesn't mean there's something wrong with him. on the other hand, a man who fears women might mistakenly think he's homosexual, but actually there is something wrong with him that he needs help with. at one time people thought these were the same thing, but now we know better.

[LaLa]

i'm poly, so that point is pretty well lost on me.

?? Does this "poly" mean, for you, that you'd really liked to make love with everybody you find attractive and that you'd suffer because it's not possible?

seriously?

Yes. When my perspective is wrong, it means I haven't understood you well, so far. If you wish me to understood, then it would need some more explanations. If not, then I don't have anything to offer anymore, as all we can offer is (the process of) understanding, allowing you to realize some new insights which would be helpful for you to achieve a change. Do you even want a change, other than in your environment? Do you agree that to stop to suffer and to learn to lead a more satisfying life, you'd need to make changes in yourself? You can't change the society; not to an extent which would remove your current problem; that's a matter of fact. The only thing you CAN do, is to find out (and it may take some months or years) the right changes in yourself. As you hopefully already know, I don't think it needs to be" taking medication to lower your hypersexuality", or even "changing many of your opinions". And it certainly can't be a change in your sexual preferences - those "are given". But there are still many things that may be changed. It's up to you to identify them and to work on the changes. By my posts, I'm just trying to help you to explore more possibilities - also those you haven't considered yet. If you think it's useless, just tell me the same as you did to MM.

[The Beholder]

*sigh* this is going terribly.

polyamory is the idea that monogamy is a social concept, and one that serves only to restrict people. i don't believe in the idea that once i'm in a relationship, i should stop desiring other relationships. for example, right now i'm quite interested in a girl i work with. but i'm in much the same position as before i was in any relationships, feeling like i can't open up about myself, so starting a relationship seems like a huge risk. i'm scared to get close to people. being close to one person doesn't magically cure me of that fear, nor of the desire for closeness.

do i really have to explain why i'd like to be able to be myself without fear?

what sort of change do you suggest? deluding myself that i'm not actually in danger every day? as long as the danger is real, the fear will be real.

i honestly think that what i need is a safe environment (as in, with someone who knows about me) where i can be around a child without that fear and sort of develop a tolerence. but i don't have to point out that there isn't much chance of any parent who knows about me letting me be around their child, even if they understand that i don't really like kids, and would never hurt them. even if it was a boy and they know i'm not attracted to boys (though still somewhat anxious around them), they still wouldn't be able to get past the prejudice that i'm dangerous.

i wish i could have something like that scene from the movie "kpax", where prot (an institutionalised man who believes he's an alien) is taken to visit his psychiatrist's family, to introduce him to normal life in a controlled environment.

[malign]

It's going terribly because we don't understand you immediately? I would have thought you'd expect that. Who is ever understood immediately? No one's arming themselves; it could be going a lot worse.

I've certainly heard of polyamory; I've read Heinlein; I came of age in the 70's. Personally, I find fulfillment in choosing to limit myself to the person I'm in love with, but that's pretty much the definition of "different strokes". I'm not going to hunt you down for feeling differently, and I'd only disapprove if there were deception involved, which seems to be against your character.

I think you missed the point of LaLa's question about being poly. She didn't ask whether you thought it was okay to be interested in multiple people at the same time, but whether or not you thought the other person has a say in the attraction. Rephrased, her question was, If you're attracted to every woman you meet, are you going to suffer if not all of them feel the same way?

It is, however, a reasonable suggestion of LaLa's that your fears might be, not completely unwarranted perhaps (people have been killed for homosexual or pedophilic activities), but maybe exaggerated (people have also been killed simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, too.) From your description, there's little chance you would ever act in a way that made your attractions obvious, so how would people find out? Is it that you want to discuss your ideas with everyone?

And, it might be that in that way, your problems (by which I assume you mean your fear of being hurt for your pedophilic views) could have both an external and internal component. Some of the fear may be real, and some not.