No one cares about men

[Victimorthecrime]

No one cares about men. We are seen as bad, period. In America men live to serve their wives mothers & daughters and that is it. Anything else is condemned. I grew up having the s**t kicked out of me by bullies and no one ever cared for a second. I get more depressed on thus site than anywhere else.

[IrmaJean]

Welcome to the community.

I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences. I was bullied some in school as well and I know it can be very painful.

It's true there is a lot of pain and sadness here. I also believe there is light and hope. There are people out there who care. How can we help support you?

Take care.

[malign]

These sound like several issues, to me.

I'm an American man, and I haven't felt that everyone was against me. My ex, maybe, but not everybody. ;-) Is it possible that your observation is only true locally, that maybe the people around you feel that way but not everybody?

Could you let us know more about why this site depresses you? You know it's not our intention. And, as a counter-example against "no one cares about men", currently the last four forum responses are to threads begun by men.

I wish that there was a way to stop the bullying that happened to you. But I also wonder what you hoped would happen if someone did care. At the very least, though, you deserved someone to comfort you for the pain and humiliation; I'm sorry you didn't have that.

[Victimorthecrime]

Thanks for the kind words both. I am 50 years old & an throughly disgusted w everything. It really is true that nice guys finish last. I just wish I had known. I should probably get counseling but it ain't cheap & not much time either. I feel like all i do is work to pay bills & taxes. There are no services for me. If I don't work I don't live it is that simple. When you are young you live for the hope that things will change but that becomes harder to sell the older you get. Still I know others have it far worse than me and there are things I am grateful for - employment, health - not much else. There needs to be a way people can live for mutual betterment instead of constant degradation. As far as the bullying thing goes that is what set me on the wrong course - fearful, sad, demotivated, angry, seeking escape, & and hiding these feelings the whole time. I have not given up but am concerned for sure.

[IrmaJean]

I'm sorry you are feeling so discouraged. I understand how living paycheck to paycheck can drag you down after a while. It's good that you haven't given up. I believe there is always hope. Do you have friends or family to connect with? Hobbies or activities that you enjoy? I hope that expressing yourself here helps.

[AmericanPsycho]

I could have told you that men are looked down on.

[Victimorthecrime]

I agree AP. In my opinion life here in USA as a man is a constant battle, a war. Relentless vicious hatred everywhere, you cannot let your guard down for a second. Nice guys don't just finish last they are attacked and destroyed. Had I not been blessed w good health & some intelligence the hideous animals would have gotten me already. Some day it will all be over that is my only solace. Nature has it right - the lessors like myself should just be killed off as a matter course. That is much more compassionate than being forced to contemplate your fate

[AmericanPsycho]

I agree AP. In my opinion life here in USA as a man is a constant battle, a war. Relentless vicious hatred everywhere, you cannot let your guard down for a second. Nice guys don't just finish last they are attacked and destroyed. Had I not been blessed w good health & some intelligence the hideous animals would have gotten me already. Some day it will all be over that is my only solace. Nature has it right - the lessors like myself should just be killed off as a matter course. That is much more compassionate than being forced to contemplate your fate

Not letting my guard down and relying only on myself are the reasons why I'm still alive.

[IrmaJean]

I'm sorry you've had painful experiences in your life.

I can say that I really like nice guys. I have noticed that the better I feel about myself, the more I am surrounded by kind and respectful people. I enjoy my friendships with kind and caring men.

Does it help to talk more about your feelings? I know there is darkness in the world. I hope your eyes are open to seeing the brightness too.

[Victimorthecrime]

Thanx IrmaJean. Yes it helps to talk about my feelings. In my era kids growing were told to be kind & work hard and the good things in life would follow. Looking back at lies really infuriates me, even though I rationally know it is silly & pointless. But the truth is that for humans biology is destiny. Take myself for example. While I am not classically handsome, I am not hideous to look at facially or physically & have even had cosmetic surgery to enhance my appearance and am of at least average intelligence & energetic, witty; and yet I am a complete loser w women & marginal career success. There is just a certain animal magnetism that I lack. I don't have that factor X, that confident air about me that attracts people. I am anxious, fearful, worried, and increasingly sad & despondent. so my point is you either have it or you don't. And I have known guys - barely literate, far from 'cute', few skills of any sort - who rarely are w/o a girlfriend(s). I am telling you there is just an animal vibe that attracts women & gains respect from other men and either ya got it or you don't.

[IrmaJean]

…I am a complete loser w women

Do you mean you have not had success in your relationships with women or that you have had trouble getting into relationships with women?

I am anxious' date=' fearful, worried, and increasingly sad & despondent.[/quote']

I've struggled with many of these feelings in the past too. Sometimes I still do. Maybe it helps to work on your relationship with yourself? As I've worked on myself, I've been more capable of taking risks socially, and I have more friends now. I think once you begin to feel okay with the person that you are, you are also then able to shine as the person you are, and that will naturally attract others.

I’m taking Biology of the Brain this semester and we talk a lot about evolutionary biology. It’s mind-stretching stuff for sure. One thing I’ve learned is that although biology can be a factor, environmental, genetic, and psychological factors also play a role. Everything interacts reciprocally and the brain has plasticity throughout our lives. That means there is always a place to grow and learn if we are open to new experiences. It also means we can learn new strategies to cope with such challenges as fear and anxiety.

Do you do anything relaxing to help with your anxiety?

Take care.

Edited April 5, 2013 by IrmaJean
grammar

[Powerhouse8000]

On 12/11/2012 at 2:55 AM, Victimorthecrime said:

No one cares about men. We are seen as bad, period. In America men live to serve their wives mothers & daughters and that is it. Anything else is condemned. I grew up having the s**t kicked out of me by bullies and no one ever cared for a second. I get more depressed on thus site than anywhere else.

I don't know what being a woman is like from direct experience, but my own experience of being a man is that it is for the most part a grim, miserable existence.

[Victimorthecrime]

To the people that complain about "slights" and "having their feelings hurt" and being offended by harsh words I'd like to ask:  have you ever had a larger person sit on your chest to where you couldn't breathe?  Did said person punch you in the face and spit in your face?  Was this done in public in front of a cheering crowd?  Was not a single fuck given by a single living organism ever?  

If the answer is no - then get a real fucking problem before you bitch to me.  

[LaLa]

I see...   It's much like "first world problems" versus "problems of people who hardly survive"...  

As you've already mentioned elsewhere on this forum, people today are too easy to offend. 

[IrmaJean]

I hear your anger. Bullying is a serious problem in our society, I feel, and there doesn't seem to be enough emphasis on it.  I'm sorry no one stepped up for you, intervened or offered you support when you needed it most. 😟 I can't imagine what that must have been like for you.

[Victimorthecrime]

Thanks for the kind words and reactions.  It was back in the early 70s. I guess it was just a different time or perhaps it still goes on for all I know.  BTW - just to be clear there was not just one episode, all sorts of stuff went on but I'm not getting into it now. 

Lastly, all suffering is real. Verbal assaults are real & painful too as I know first hand.  So I am not looking to invalidate anyone.  

Bit of a retrograde lately all manner of problems.  ATM all quiet on the western front so I hope we are coming out of it.  

[Wayless]

On 12/10/2012 at 9:55 PM, Victimorthecrime said:

No one cares about men. We are seen as bad, period. In America men live to serve their wives mothers & daughters and that is it. Anything else is condemned. I grew up having the s**t kicked out of me by bullies and no one ever cared for a second. I get more depressed on thus site than anywhere else.

I don't think your generalization that no one cares about men follows or is especially relevant to the problem of bullying.  A lot of men are bullies and should NOT be cared about!  My parents never saw an extreme incident of me being bullied, but did see some minor disrespectful stuff.  They advised learning fighting techniques, but were in denial about my lack of physical maturity that would have made such efforts pretty futile at that point.  

I was bullied for a time when my slow, late puberty created a major disparity with the rougher, athletic guys my parents forced me to compete with in organized sports.

I've recently remembered some really embarrassing wrestling incidents when I was 12 or 13 with no sign of puberty.  I remembered being defeated wrestling, but not the humiliating emotions until recently.  At the time, somehow, I congratulated myself for "doing my best" and tried to blot-out the humiliation and loss of self-esteem.

Suddenly, I was no match for a number of my peers and I was targeted for domination by a number of rapidly maturing guys.  Clearly, it was sexual for my tormentors though I was too naive to understand lustful sexual impulses at the time.  Since it was in public, playgrounds or swimming pools, it didn't go all that far.  Basically, I was made to feel their erections in various helpless positions. 

The worst was a guy that kneeled on my arms with his crotch inches from my face, grinning and taunting me for what seemed like forever.  Everybody thought that was funny, but eventually his buddies told him to let me up, warning him he'd get in trouble.  Apparently, he was lost in enjoying the sexual feelings.

Yeah, this was not friendly wrestling.  My actual friends were intellectual, studious, moralistic types.  Sex wasn't  hardly broached with them.  I quickly learned not to hang at all with the guys I was forced to deal with in organized athletics.

[Wayless]

On 12/10/2012 at 9:55 PM, Victimorthecrime said:

No one cares about men. We are seen as bad, period. In America men live to serve their wives mothers & daughters and that is it. Anything else is condemned. I grew up having the s**t kicked out of me by bullies and no one ever cared for a second. I get more depressed on thus site than anywhere else.

Oh, now I caught myself rationalizing above.

I think the actuality is that no one cares about men of low masculinity (like me).  With that, I agree!  Men with high masculinity are worshiped as heroes and their trespasses against the weaker excused!

Except for the years 12, 13, 14, 15 (my stunted puberty) I could put up a somewhat reasonable "front" of being too masculine to attract bullies.  Even then, there were instances, however.

[Victimorthecrime]

Wow I posted that just over 7 years ago.  I’ll say more later when I am home.  

[Victimorthecrime]

I still feel the same way, in fact even more strongly.  Males commit suicide at a far greater rate then females and if that’s not data I am not sure what is.  Chris Rock said men are loved for what the can do; women are loved for who they are.  But whatever, I really don’t even give a shit, just chatting. 

[LaLa]

Hey, Vic! I wonder how you've meant this:

15 minutes ago, Victimorthecrime said:

 But whatever, I really don’t even give a shit, just chatting. 

It sounds like some kind of acceptance, in the sense that you know that the situation is bad, but you 'can live with it'. Or am I wrong? If not, I wonder if you'd be willing to let us know how you managed to 'accept' it, what helped and if / how you look at it differently now.

[Victimorthecrime]

2 hours ago, LaLa said:

It sounds like some kind of acceptance, in the sense that you know that the situation is bad, but you 'can live with it'.

Yeah that’s basically right.  

[Wayless]

3 hours ago, Victimorthecrime said:

I still feel the same way, in fact even more strongly.  Males commit suicide at a far greater rate then females and if that’s not data I am not sure what is.  Chris Rock said men are loved for what the can do; women are loved for who they are.  But whatever, I really don’t even give a shit, just chatting. 

Yes.  Quite a few men descend into drink, drugs or suicide when they can no longer "do" or become convinced they never can do. . .   Part of their tactics in fighting for the status of doing is downing the other guy, often based on masculinity criterion. . .  though it could be anything at hand.  They say the opiod crisis clusters geographically around closed manufacturing.

But, again, it's not that nobody cares about men.  They care about what particular men can do. . . .admittedly a bit different.  Men who can are worshiped.

[Wayless]

On 4/4/2013 at 6:49 PM, Victimorthecrime said:

There is just a certain animal magnetism that I lack. I don't have that factor X, that confident air about me that attracts people. I am anxious, fearful, worried, and increasingly sad & despondent. so my point is you either have it or you don't. And I have known guys - barely literate, far from 'cute', few skills of any sort - who rarely are w/o a girlfriend(s). I am telling you there is just an animal vibe that attracts women & gains respect from other men and either ya got it or you don't.

In my view when you postulate Factor X you are talking about hormonal sufficiency, literally, JUICE, the relentless pleasure in aggressiveness: happy combativeness.  I had to fake what little I had by imitating others for most of my life.  When I supplemented after finding I was very low testosterone at about 55, I was amazed at the difference.  Anxiety, fearfulness, worry, sadness, despondency suddenly gone.  And that while still burdened with a lifetime of timid habits.  Unfortunately too late to change the course of my life much.  I remember thinking,  "Why can't I enjoy the fight like other men seem to?"

Low masculinity, low testosterone guys are NOT meant to be killed or die off, but are meant to serve the alphas and betas by being a delta or omega.  The compulsive rebelliousness of gamas might lead to dangerous conflict with the alphas and betas, however.

[Victimorthecrime]

I’ve never had mine checked.  Did you go to a regular PCP or a specialist?