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an article about anger in therapy (toward the therapist)


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First, I definitely think the therapist's personality is of utmost importance in finding a good fit for the patient.

As far as expressing anger in therapy, I think that the anger is a part of what has happened in the past, so it is an integral part of therapy. The patient can heal if the therapist is able to tolerate the anger (even when directed at him/her in transference) and accept it. This is validating the patient's emotion, which I think for me is of the utmost importance.

I think as far as the self-hatred part, which frequently can be a parental introject, needs to be treated as if it is an accepted part of the patient's parts. The therapist, imo, should help the client accept this part of herself by communicating that it has served a function in the past. I guess I am basically saying that this part also needs to be validated, it needs to feel like it belongs somewhere instead of people trying to fix it. I have more thoughts on this, but I can't seem to articulate them the way I would like, so. . .

I think that when the therapist hurts a patient, the patient shouldn't be blamed, and that the therapist should own what he has done. That way, the patient can heal more fully from what has happened and can hopefully remember the positive times. Just my two cents.

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Wow, Tsunami, thanks for bumping up this thread! I missed it, in going over what I missed in the year I was gone from here. This is a great article, Lala.

My current therapist can be confrontational. I like that. If, sometimes when I go there, I am feeling fragile, I will say "please be gentle" and he will back off being confrontational and will be gentle and do the “don’t be so hard on yourself” thing. (He has said, "I'm glad you feel free enough to say that to me".) The rest of the time he will challenge me on what I say to goad me into thinking about and looking into my own feelings. We have never been angry with each other, but I have been irritated with him and said so, and he has been exasperated with me and said so, with an underlying kindness and willingness to listen (again!)

In the first times of therapy, I needed the therapist to be gentle but as time went by, the softly-softly approach was inadequate and I needed the greater intensity that you speak about, finding. I have wasted time (and money) in therapy that has been too softly-softly for my needs.

I think if a therapist can adapt their style and be versatile and be what is best for the patient that is good therapy. Not all therapists are up this and stick to their own style, which is fine but then they must refer the patient. The intensity needs to be matched to get a good fit, especially in dealing with PDs and their needs. And I’m sorry you had so many bad experiences, DD. I’d also be interested in hearing of your therapy experiences if you feel up to telling. This thread is as good as place as any, it had become inactive anyway.

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I think as far as the self-hatred part, which frequently can be a parental introject, needs to be treated as if it is an accepted part of the patient's parts. The therapist, imo, should help the client accept this part of herself by communicating that it has served a function in the past. I guess I am basically saying that this part also needs to be validated, it needs to feel like it belongs somewhere instead of people trying to fix it. I have more thoughts on this, but I can't seem to articulate them the way I would like, so. . .

I'm beginning to understanding this. I appreciate that I can learn from all of you. You articulate yourself very well too. :-)

What I do see is that at times the self-hating part can become too powerful, which can throw a person off-balance, so I will try to encourage gentler parts to have a say as well.

I would not have fared well with a confrontational therapist, but likely because I am an extremely sensitive person, and was especially so at that time. Mine was very gentle with me, but he would often ask challenging questions. We worked well together. I couldn't have asked for a better match. I was very fortunate.

I hope that it's possible to both challenge a client and be gentle too. (Otherwise I should probably stick with cashiering. :o) Though I do find it much easier to discuss the article now that I'm not having an emotional response or cognitively distorting stuff. :mellow:

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  • 8 months later...

Just speaking here to my personal beliefs and experience. I always respect all other views.

It’s an interesting article. There are some good insights, but I can’t say I agree perfectly with all of it. (I did find it interesting that a therapist would use a common thought distortion in believing that she can control another person’s feelings.)

There are some things for me to learn from this, though. It would probably benefit me in helping others to let go of my strong ideals at times. There is always stuff to work on.

I don’t think that every therapist can help every client. I do, however, think that therapists are most effective when they are authentic and true to whom they are as human beings. I think it likely requires a delicate balance to adjust to a client without losing oneself. All therapists have different styles and there isn’t one right or wrong way to be, I don’t think. If I ever make it to becoming a therapist, I would be kind and attempt to help cultivate self-compassion in a client, but I also understand that this approach might not work best for every client. The tougher stance might not work best for every client either. I also think it’s possible to hold a space of kindness, acceptance, and compassion during a client’s angry response.

I would think a response of anger in therapy should have nothing to do with the therapist and everything to do with the client. It could have to do with specific interactions and might speak to some kind of transference. This is information and is always something to learn from. The working through of any feelings that come up with a client would strengthen the relationship, I would think. I think it's important that all feelings that come up for a client (including anger that seems to be directed at the therapist) should be accepted and talked about.

My therapist was very humble, gentle, and kind, but there were times when I was set off angry. (He was painfully right.) He told me then that a strong response meant something about me, so then there was something there to explore. He was right about that. I think if, at that point in my life, I had a therapist who was not super gentle, I would have melted emotionally and may have sunken into a depression. Instead, I healed. I needed a very gentle touch. I thank him for offering me that. I was very fortunate to find a good match right away.

If it's working with a client, go with it. If not, then adjust as best as you can.

My personal thoughts? It’s a way, but not the way.

Can anyone else besides me see the (unconscious, I'm sure) sly invalidation and discounting here?

Of COURSE the writer always respects other views. That's the socially acceptable thing to do. But mine wasn't just a view. It was a visceral response that had been invalidated over and over throughout my life and continued to be unseen or minimized or . . . just ignored. . .over therapy after therapy, mostly with other females.

That same writer has, on occasion, been very supportive of another female who has been very outspoken in her attacks on other people. I'm not sure what's up with that but it seems similar to what Jeep was writing about in his "Leaving the forum" thread. As I wrote in a long (possibly unintelligible) post in that thread, I'm not suggesting that any of this is conscious on the part of the writer -- but that's what I'm complaining about!! It's overlooked in the whole society!

Maybe this will provide an opportunity for real learning and discussion? If it doesn't get deleted by the mods.

Anyway, the discussion in this thread is why I pretty much stopped posting here almost a year ago. No need to make an announcement, that I could see.

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I'm always willing to learn more about myself, DD. Feel free to call me Beth as well.

As I recall, I was triggered by the article and felt defensive about my personal viewpoints, leading to the post above. My response had everything to do with me, as overreactions often do. It was not intended as a response to you or your feelings, DD. It was all about me and was a reaction to the article. In retrospect, it may have been best to step away and cool down before posting, but I sometimes make mistakes too. The last thing I would ever want to do is invalidate anyone's feelings. I'm sorry if I have ever written anything that has been hurtful. It is never my intent.

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Thanks, Beth, a good way to start a New Year in the world for me. I’m glad my suspicions about my post being deleted didn’t come true in reality. Very likely, the invalidations I had experienced in my family in the past had been such that I had “deleted” myself. Perhaps obviously, it’s been the good therapy I’ve been getting (finally, over the last 4 years) that has allowed me to (gradually) undelete myself and try posting this now.

I very much appreciate your understanding about what happened with you and how you felt defensive. Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened to people who responded in ways that felt invalidating to me in the past. That's helpful, as I'm long past being angry with them personally but we don't talk about stuff.

. . .

In my work with kids that struggle with sensory distress of different kinds, I am trained that if the intensity of my approach does not match the intensity of the child's sensory need, my approach will not be effective. A low intensity therapy activity will not reach a kid in high intensity mode... If I can meet the intensity level with my activity, then I have a chance of bringing the child down to a calmer state.

. . .

That makes a lot of sense to me, in that if a person -- or a part -- is stuck in narcissistic rage, then it feels helpful to me to have someone who can meet you with that. Which maybe was the point of the original article. Thanks, finding, and thanks to the internet -- you can't come back to old discussions that you walk away from IRL.

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I just read the article. Sorry I'm a little late in the conversation. I actually felt myself nodding along at the points this author was making. I think there's a few things important in a therapeutic relatiionship. First is finding one that you feel safe with and can comfortably form a relationship with. This doesn't happen automatically but can take several sessions or months of sessions. Or possibly moving on to another if this doesn't happen. It's like any other relationship in our lives....sometimes people click and sometimes they don't.

The next thing is meeting the client where they are at. In my experience, I may be a trained professional but my client is the professional of their life. They are the ones who lived the experiences that brought them into therapy and I am genuinely honored for each person who has the strength and courage to take the risk/leap of faith it takes to share that with me. What this means to me is being active and attentive in the process. I.E....some people need a gentle listening ear, some people need support and encouragement, some people need some deep processing, some people need a kick in the butt, some people need a combination of all of these and maybe other things that I haven't listed.

As far as anger goes....I welcome it. If I said something that angers a client...I want to hear about it. I believe it possibly a very good jumping off point for some powerful processing. Anger is a strong emotion. Many people (even therapists) are intimidated or afraid of it. I think behind anger is truth and healing and it needs to be heard and addressed. If it's because of something I said or I pushed too hard. I will own that and apologize but I will always honor and support the client's expression of it.

I think what gets some therapists in trouble is when countertransference comes into play. There needs to be some level of transference in any relationship for it to be successful, even a therapeutic one, but if the therapist ends up triggered by the anger, the outcome may not be a good one.

I like what Finding posted earlier as well. You often do need to match the level of intensity.

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devil’s daughter: “Can anyone else besides me see the (unconscious, I'm sure) sly invalidation and discounting here?”

If you believe the writers invalidation and discounting to unconscious, DD, doesn’t it seem like “sly” is an unnecessarily negative characterization?

devil’s daughter: “That same writer has, on occasion, been very supportive of another female who has been very outspoken in her attacks on other people. I'm not sure what's up with that but it seems similar to what Jeep was writing about in his "Leaving the forum" thread”

That same writer is entitled to her opinion. Although, I’m sure you would never consciously seek to attack another on the forum (for example with unnecessarily negative characterizations), DD, what you believe to be an attack, and what a post was intended to express, may not be the same thing. The mods, on occasion, endeavour to assist with what could be a misunderstanding. I’m sorry if you interpret that as being unfairly supportive of someone other than you.

That same writer has also been supportive you, DD, when you have been outspoken with your...opinions... (It seems strange that you would again, unnecessarily characterize someone else’s opinions as “attacks”...my apologies for being forward...but doesn’t that seem a little aggressive?)

What jeep was referring to was an entry that he wrote on my personal blog, that I felt was inappropriate. Especially since he wasn’t angered by the post I had made, per se, (as he and I had already discussed how I had misunderstood the original comment, and apologized), but was angered by what I had expressed in regards to my own feelings of frustration with my own behaviour on my own personal blog.

Seeing how it was my personal blog and I felt it was inappropriate, I chose to delete his statement from my blog.

devil’s daughter: “Maybe this will provide an opportunity for real learning and discussion? If it doesn't get deleted by the mods.”

I’m certain you can understand that the mods volunteer considerable amounts of time at this site, and for this site, not only to offer support to others, but also to maintain the software it and keep it functional and accessible for people like us who appreciate being able to use it. It’s a pretty thankless job, made even more so when someone suggests that they are cavalier with their authority, or abuse their powers. That’s simply not the case. Rarely are posts deleted, and when they are, it’s typically for things like descriptions of violence or threats, or abusive language, etc. For all of their effort and time, and certainly their support, it seems like the least we can do is show them some support in return. If not for them, there would be no site.

Welcome back DD, it’s nice to hear you’re ‘owning’ your own issues and doing well.

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devil’s daughter: “Can anyone else besides me see the (unconscious, I'm sure) sly invalidation and discounting here?”

If you believe the writers invalidation and discounting to unconscious, DD, doesn’t it seem like “sly” is an unnecessarily negative characterization?

No, it doesn't seem to me like "sly" is an unnecessarily negative characterization. It's unfortunate and sad but it's part of a bigger problem than Beth personally in my opinion. And actually my comment "(unconscious, I'm sure)" is part of that same. . . genre might be a way to describe it. Which I usually stay away from like the plague. Actually, I wasn't sure it's totally unconscious (I "white lied", not entirely consciously on my part, to maybe make my comment more socially acceptable) but I'm pretty sure that conscious Beth didn't intend to be invalidating.

Welcome back DD, it’s nice to hear you’re ‘owning’ your own issues and doing well.

I was 'owning' my issues, or trying to, long before I started posting here. My choice of a username kind of says that, I think.

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