Survived suicide?

[Endlessnight]

Hello. I can hear you are in a lot of pain but please don't give up. Things can get better - I know they did for me, thanks largely to my going to a psychiatrist and this forum. If I could go to a therapist also I would. Please give it a chance. Life may never be perfect for any of us, but at least it can be worth living, we can make it worth living despite everything. Take care.

[Bundy]

I've been to the psychiatrist twice now

...didn't really help so far

I get what he wants to say, but everything he said so far is pretty much irrelevant to how I view my problems and my place in this world, and nothing this person says is really reaching me. I went in there a little skeptic but still gave it a sincere shot, but it feels most of the time we talked about meaningless concepts of things like self-respect, just stuff I already read about and don't matter to me anywhere, worthless filler

It's undeniable, I can only be happy with a half-decent job, not being hung like a 11 year old, having a different nationality, and living in a society that doesn't discriminate my kind

except one, all impossible tasks...

just fuck it all

[malign]

Can you change your nationality? My parents became American citizens after coming to this country (formerly British.) I assume you really mean you want to change your ethnicity, where you were born, and yeah, that's not changeable. But what about the idea of taking a stand against whatever makes you dislike your nationality? Sort of, "I was born this way, but this is what I believe in." And hey, that might work for the size issue, too.

You're not going to change the past, or other people. So you can't force them not to discriminate. But that doesn't mean you can't make a stand against it.

[Bundy]

Can you change your nationality? My parents became American citizens after coming to this country (formerly British.) I assume you really mean you want to change your ethnicity, where you were born, and yeah, that's not changeable. But what about the idea of taking a stand against whatever makes you dislike your nationality? Sort of, "I was born this way, but this is what I believe in." And hey, that might work for the size issue, too.

If I had half-decent job qualifications, maybe then some countries would have be interested in letting me live there, but since I'm pretty much a worthless and useless sack of shit, that's impossible, I'm trapped here.

And taking a stand for me is not as simple as for you Americans or other western Europeans. I'm from the goddamn east, most of my relatives would probably disown me for even saying things like; "Hey guys, I know a lot of bad stuff happened to us during the war, but maybe some of that was our fault too?" You people can't even begin to grasp how angry, paranoid and confused our culture is currently.

You're not going to change the past, or other people. So you can't force them not to discriminate. But that doesn't mean you can't make a stand against it.

You know, the worst thing isn't even that certain people make my life living hell, it's the people who don't even want to acknowledge the freaking pain guys like me are in. It's like, almost everybody at least accepts the social reality that minorities are being discriminated against and that it's unjust, sure you have douchebags who still say shit like "everybody but whites are genetically inferior", but these people tend to be rightfully hated in almost all civilized parts of the world, unless you live in some backwater town in friggin' Georgia or Mississippi or some hellhole like that, but guys like me always have to deal with assholes who make fun of us (around 60-70% of all people) or others who say stuff like that all of it is only in our heads and that we are just oversensitive.

Don't I deserve some help? Am I not a goddamn human being? I used to be a bright kid who could have done some useful in the world, but I never had a goddamn chance, how the hell was I supposed to grow up to be a normal, healthy and semi-successful confident adult, when all I've known in my life so far is mainly misery and fucking pain, and that pain isn't even being acknowledged by most?

I feel like Napoleon at Waterloo, no matter how much I struggle and try, in the back of my head I already realized that everything is lost and over.

[malign]

No, I probably can't know how hard it would be to take a stand contrary to your relatives. But ... I do have relatives. What I wonder is whether you're willing to die for yours ... because that's what it would mean, if it comes down to a choice between taking a stand or taking your own life. Of course, if taking a stand (on this particular issue) isn't vital, you could save your energy for what is vital. Then, the task becomes, what's vital? What's the minimum you would need for peace?

You do deserve help (everyone who needs it does.) Now, it's true that not everyone you meet will be willing, or able, to help you, but some will. Are you giving yourself a fair chance of finding them, or are you assuming they don't exist?

I was struck by the analogy with Napoleon, but because it seems so different from your situation. He had spent a lifetime trying to conquer the world, making all his neighbors hate and fear him, and then came back a second time after losing it all once before. In other words, he was a megalomaniac. None of these things seems to me to be true in your case ...

I still think you're a bright guy who could do some good in the world. I just don't see you as Emperor, if that's okay. ;-)

[Bundy]

No, I probably can't know how hard it would be to take a stand contrary to your relatives. But ... I do have relatives. What I wonder is whether you're willing to die for yours ... because that's what it would mean, if it comes down to a choice between taking a stand or taking your own life. Of course, if taking a stand (on this particular issue) isn't vital, you could save your energy for what is vital. Then, the task becomes, what's vital? What's the minimum you would need for peace?

A job that doesn't suck, being born with a different ethnicity and not having the genital development of a someone prepubescent.

My relationship with most of my relatives is complicated. I hate them all because I hate my own people, but I do love them because they are family after all, no matter how horrible the shit is they say. They are the reason why I waited so long until my first suicide attempt, and why I probably won't try again (the first try was pretty much me completely losing my mind, I actually snapped that evening, but I doubt that will happen again)

You do deserve help (everyone who needs it does.) Now, it's true that not everyone you meet will be willing, or able, to help you, but some will. Are you giving yourself a fair chance of finding them, or are you assuming they don't exist?

They do exist, but it's already too late. The most important requirements for a good life are already unreachable for me, for financial and some social reasons, unbeatable obstacles. We can spout feel good stuff all evening, but this is something absolute, undeniable, not bendable or relative. For me to be somewhat satisfied, I need a more fulfilling profession, but that is impossible, since my resume (former grades, qualifications) is pretty bad, due to my horrible childhood. I can try to apply for an apprenticeship in something I would like more than cashier/clerk, but nobody wants me, absolutely nobody.

I was struck by the analogy with Napoleon, but because it seems so different from your situation. He had spent a lifetime trying to conquer the world, making all his neighbors hate and fear him, and then came back a second time after losing it all once before. In other words, he was a megalomaniac. None of these things seems to me to be true in your case ...

It was a bad analogy alright. The point is that the situation is hopeless.

I'm already defeated, and there isn't a light at the end of the tunnel.

[malign]

I'm sorry you're hurting so badly, D. Speaking as someone who has been depressed, I hope you'll question some of those absolutes, because that kind of thinking is how depression operates. You don't know that "absolutely nobody" wants you; you only know that the people you've tried so far haven't. But isn't that what happens any time a person searches for work: nobody wants to hire them until they find someone who does? Unless you're one of those guys who gets several offers and chooses between them ... I've not often had that opportunity, myself.

I do understand the desire to surrender. At least if you stop fighting, there's no more suspense about possibly winning. It's a lot easier to surrender than to be defeated, in some ways.

[Bundy]

I'm sorry you're hurting so badly, D. Speaking as someone who has been depressed, I hope you'll question some of those absolutes, because that kind of thinking is how depression operates. You don't know that "absolutely nobody" wants you; you only know that the people you've tried so far haven't. But isn't that what happens any time a person searches for work: nobody wants to hire them until they find someone who does? Unless you're one of those guys who gets several offers and chooses between them ... I've not often had that opportunity, myself.

Well yes, there are jobs that I would have a shot at! Let's see;

I could be a cashier or food preparer in McDonalds, or a Janitor, man, when I start getting really courageous I can even imagine working in highly respected and demanding jobs like as a bus driver!

The world is full of possibilities for someone who hasn't even one positive thing on his resume!

[IrmaJean]

Maybe it's okay to build up from some of those jobs? I've been a cashier for many years, but I could manage a store now, if I wanted to. What you need is someone to give you a chance. One chance could lead to more chances and more positive things on your resume and eventually a different job. You won't know unless you try, right? I do hear your frustration. I'm sorry things are so hard.

[malign]

My first real job, besides mowing lawns, was as a clerk/cashier in a drug store. I worked there for three years, gradually becoming a floor supervisor, then was transferred into a clerical position in the buyer's office. During that time, I dropped out of college (thinking at the time that I would finish the degree some other way, soon.) At the end, I chose to go to a vocational school to get certified to work with computers. You never know what direction things will go in; I know I didn't.

Two things that will help: intelligence and a will to work. Your mileage is bound to vary, but the only certainty is that you can't get a job if you don't apply for it. The world is full of possibilities for anyone who doesn't reject them out of hand. Is it okay if for a little while, you do work that you know is "beneath you", if the end result is that it expands the number of places that you can go after that?

[Bundy]

I'm sorry, that just sounds painfully naive. I even went to a professional employment agency, and even they couldn't help me when they saw my resume. You guys act like there isn't such a thing as being stuck in a dead-end job or not having any possibility for a better professional future.

Sounds like you are actually trying to tell me I can still get a decent job, with not having as much as one positive thing to show.

No work experience, no valuable/useful degrees, unemployment for a long while now, having "drug use" in my police report because I got caught as a teen once with friends before watching a movie, no accounts on sites like Facebook, so people always think I'm some kind of antisocial freak (which I am) when they see I don't have anything like that, and even if I tried to get an apprenticeship, I still would have to deal with what happened during my last one, where sport was mandatory, which will undoubtedly end with me becoming a laughing stock again, and if I end up in another situation that has hundreds of people mocking me, I will fucking snap.

There is literally no hope. That's not the depression speaking, this is the real world having already discarded me as worthless trash.

It just proves what I always believed and knew, that this world is separated in losers and winners, and that these are already decided by birth. Some people are born without any awkward body issues, so they are able to have the usual amount of self confidence a human would normally develop, while ugly women, guys with small dicks, obese people etc. are being seen as the unlucky part of society, who constantly have to tell themselves that it's not really that bad and that you can still find happiness!...when you give up on the things normal people desire, a shitty life full of compromises...

[malign]

It's okay; it's possible that I'm painfully naive. {Definitely, have been called worse.} On the other hand, I just described what I lived.

Is it possible to get stuck in a dead-end job? Yes, it is. On the other hand, it is a job. It's possible to get stuck without one, too, especially if you're discarding possibilities because you might get stuck in them. Because you might not, too.

I too have no social media accounts, just e-mail and here. And I'm a programmer who works on web apps. If someone asks why not, I tend to ask them why. Social media don't prove you're social; they prove you spend too much time on the computer.

Everything's decided at birth? So, there are no makeovers for less attractive women, no physical fitness changes possible for the obese, no therapies for those with birth defects or developmental disorders, no prosthetics for amputees, no possible mental health therapies for everything from anger management issues to depression to schizophrenia? Depression and schizophrenia have both been linked to genetics, but that doesn't mean we just sit back and let them happen to us. Well okay, usually we do at first, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't fight them.

Everything changes, all the time. It may be hard to see it, especially if you don't want to believe it. But change is inevitable; it's practically the definition of "life". I can't guarantee that they'll all be changes for the good, (and I personally used to hate change), but I can guarantee it'll happen whether one likes it or not.

[Bundy]

ah, goddamnit it, you are right. Just read my post again with a clear head, and while I'm a negative person, you are undoubtly correct about the whole thing not being as black and white as my brain sometimes tricks me into thinking it is. Just had a really shitty day, and the mood swings really get to me, I seriously need to stop being this whiny. Just the stress and the paranoia really get to you after several years of experiencing them. I wish I just could stop thinking about the world as this place with countless numbers of groups that either pity or humiliate me.

[malign]

Ah, D, everybody has shitty days. I recognized that, not with pity but with familiarity.

Shortly after my ex got me removed by the police from my home (the one I pay for and she doesn't), I went to the mountains near here (they're not very high, but it's quiet and beautiful and lonely.) And I sat there listening, thinking about the world and the universe beyond it and how small I was.

It was comforting! :-)

Because it meant that all the shit that happens wasn't happening to me personally. I didn't do it; it wasn't punishment for being a bad person in a previous life, or maybe in this one. It was just stuff, and I could get through it.

And yes, that's a naive thought; some people do get crushed by their problems. But it's important to fight anyway.

[Bundy]

I've been constantly dreaming about revenge the last few days, getting really mad and noticing very disturbing things like me getting noticeably happier whenever something shocking happens to people in real life, had the most sadistic smile after these guys killed that soldier in Britain. Every time something happens that shocks and depresses a large amount of people I'm gleeful. I guess I'm starting hating people more and more, so when I see them suffer it makes me feel better.

but I'm not even feeling bad anymore, I'm starting to feel justified. It was always important to me that people are being treated the same, but why? I was never treated decently in my life, why do I care about social problems that other minority groups have, they sure as hell don't give a shit about guys like me, nobody does.

Just feels like this has been the last drop and my empathy and sympathy officially died this week.

But I'm somewhat relieved right now, because this realization also helps me with not caring about anything anymore. I'm a worthless sack of shit who will never accomplish anything of worth, who even if he had a functional social life and a promising career, would still be stuck with a tiny dick, so why even care

I only want to watch the world burn, and that's it, already went nuts a while ago, it's just that now I'm completely aware of it...

[IrmaJean]

I hear that you are feeling angry. Is it possible that the anger you are feeling now is easier to cope with and manage than the pain and fear that is underneath?

I guess I'm starting hating people more and more, so when I see them suffer it makes me feel better.

You're a person too...What of your suffering? It's okay to feel angry and hurt for being treated poorly by others.

I'm a worthless sack of shit who will never accomplish anything of worth, who even if he had a functional social life and a promising career, would still be stuck with a tiny dick, so why even care

Some part of you is feeling very harsh and self-critical with you. There is another part that writes here to reach out. Are you able to connect with the part of you who wants to live? Are you still seeing a therapist?

I don't know if anything I say helps, but I'm listening and I care.

[Bundy]

Just wanted to say that I won't be posting here anymore, thanks to all who listened and had the patience to deal with me, but I just can't deal with this. Every day is hell, shrink didn't help at all, had several meetings today about my professional future, pretty much confirmed my apprehension that there is no hope, just fuck it all.

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