"What should be done about us?" A heartfelt question.

[woteva]

Small and I are the same length, he has a 1/2 on me in girth.

I've always said if a guy can get past the expectation of sex on the first date, guys can have a great time casual dating different ladies. It's been my experience that women tend to be impressed or intrigued by a guy who doesn't just try to jump their bones immediately.

I just celebrated my 27th wedding anniversary. I don't know, maybe ladies have changed that much over the years? I mean really, do females today just expect a 'gutter f**k' on the first date? Isn't there an expectation of some time spent together..wineing and dining before proceeding to the most intimate act two people can be involved in? Dunno...

Small guys tend to forget....With your pants up, with your clothes on you're just as good as ANY other guy walking around out there.

They expect us to want that, and to be honest, if we were normal men that's exactly what most of us would want! Paradoxically, for most women a man not trying to get her into bed, even on the first date, would be a red flag. She'd be thinking either you're not interested or that there was something wrong with you.

[woteva]

Even if a man had this big dick, why would he want to get with a woman who's only with him because of his dick size? The love is conditional, it's based on conditions of dick size and material possessions, so therefore it is a waste of time. The only reason to be with a woman like that is to satisfy a sexual urge which is pointless.

It may be conditional but that condition is unchangeable. His big penis is a redeeming quality that is there forever, barring impotence (but big or small that's a danger for any man). He stays with her because he feels he can get away with not being a great overall partner and she stays with him because the sex is good, despite him not being a great overall partner. Both know there are no guarantees in any other potential relationship.

[woteva]

Sorry for that experience topic. I'm all for women's rights and I respect them dearly, but whatever happened to a sense of decency? The topic was obviously vanilla, but she had to go and brag about her taste for big men.

I can imagine how inadequate you felt. My ex girlfriend would humiliate me constantly. I agree that our society has declined. Once upon a time the social status quo was to hold yourself with respect. It seems now it's to brag about our eccentricities.

And who has to pay for it? Amongst others, the msm with the little penis. How cute?

A woman loving a big penis isn't an eccentricity, it's a fact of life. Previous generations of women weren't allowed to say what they were thinking and today's women are making up for it.

[Resolute]

They expect us to want that, and to be honest, if we were normal men that's exactly what most of us would want! Paradoxically, for most women a man not trying to get her into bed, even on the first date, would be a red flag. She'd be thinking either you're not interested or that there was something wrong with you.

i can't agree with you there, specially on the first date part.

[woteva]

i can't agree with you there, specially on the first date part.

When I say "trying" I don't just mean in some overt manner. Do you agree that most women expect us to want to get them into bed ASAP?

[Guest Klingsor]

A woman loving a big penis isn't an eccentricity, it's a fact of life. Previous generations of women weren't allowed to say what they were thinking and today's women are making up for it.

[media=]

some science folks….

Penis size: An evolutionary perspective

Carole Jahme shines the cold light of evolutionary psychology on readers' problems. This week: penis siz

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  • Carole Jahme
    
  • theguardian.com, Thursday 6 May 2010 13.25 BST
    

Penis size is sexually selected only in ape species like chimps and humans where the female exercises mate choice. Silverback male gorillas, by contrast, monopolise a harem of females and are poorly endowed. Photo: Getty Images/Dorling Kindersley

Anonymous, age and sex unspecified

Dear Carole, Why are women so obsessed with the size of a man's cock – wanting ones 6 inches and over and kicking others aside when they really should be concentrating on the emotional connection and love being shared, putting the size of the man's cock right out of her mind?

Carole replies:

The origins of the primate sex drive go back more than 60m years to the late Mesozoic era when the first primate evolved. A lot of sex has taken place since then, and a significant proportion has been motivated by female choice between rival males.1Female primates can experience multiple orgasms, and it has been theorised that ancestral hominid females sought out males who would sexually satisfy them. Through the mechanism of sexual selection, this will have increased penis size and altered structure.

Today, the average erect gorilla penis is 3cm (1.25 inches) long, the average chimp or bonobo penis comes in at around 8cm and the average human penis stands at around 13cm. Most primates, including chimpanzees, have a penis bone and achieve erections through muscle contraction.2 The human penis has evolved the unusual system ofvasocongestion to achieve erection, making the erect organ far more flexible than that of other primate species.

This unique adaptation is thought to have been selected through female mate choice, and by the time Homo erectus arrived on the scene, the hominid penis was significantly longer, fatter and more bendy than our ape cousins'. It has even been theorised that bipedalism evolved in humans to allow the fashionably new, larger, flexible penis to be displayed to discerning females.3

Interestingly, while the human penis is the biggest of all the ape species in length and girth, both in absolute terms and as a proportion of body size, the human testes are not. As a proportion of overall body size, chimp and bonobo testes are twice as large as human testes, whereas gorilla testes are half the size. Why?

Correlations can be found between primate mating systems and male genital anatomy.4 In multi-male/multi-female groups, males must compete to reproduce and frequently the competition takes place inside the female reproductive tract. The more sperm a male produces and ejaculates inside a female the greater the probability that one of his will fertilise the ovum. Female chimps or bonobos in oestrus often mate with several different individuals, so males must reproductively compete in this way and larger testes will therefore confer greater reproductive fitness.

By contrast, female gorillas live in harems and don't often get a chance to exercise a choice between mates, though occasionally a female and a male from outside the group may risk it. The impressive 200kg (400lb) silverback gorilla does have the smallest penis and testes of all male apes, but his massive canines and biceps and his controlling, jealous temper allow him to intimidate and fight off potential competitors.

Human testis size indicates that males evolved under conditions in which their sperm competed inside females, but perhaps not to the same extent as chimp sperm. But the larger human penis suggests that hominids needed to keep females with choice sexually satisfied. Ancestral females would have experienced a sexual freedom denied in Western cultures today and it has been suggested that our ancestors went through a period of matriarchy and enhanced female choice.5

When compared with patriarchal chimps, the matriarchal bonobo is a far more sex-oriented ape. Enthusiastic females initiate both hetero- and homosexual activity, particularly when aggression begins to surface, resulting in satisfied, contented and peaceful bonobos. Patriarchy, on the other hand, correlates with a lack of openly displayed female choice.

Women with choice are not all "obsessed with the size of a man's cock". Women are as aware as men that to build a stable relationship you need trust, shared interests and the ability to keep each other amused. But a woman is not going to "put the size of a man's cock right out of her mind", because she can't. Females have an evolved interest in the size of a man's penis, which has been sexually selected for its size and shape. But humans are also selected for creativity – we are highly innovative, imaginative apes. Accordingly, women's minds can be aroused by creativity and being sexually imaginative can be physically arousing, adding satisfying metaphorical inches to one's love life.

References

1) Dixson, A (2003) Sexual selection by cryptic female choice and the evolution of primate sexuality. Evolutionary Anthropology; 11 (S1): 195-199.

2) Diamond, M (1980) The biosocial evolution of human sexuality. Behavioral and Brain Sciences; 3: 184-186.

3) Sheets-Johnstone M. (1990) The Roots of Thinking. Temple University Press.

4) Harcourt, A, Gardiner, J (1994) Sexual selection and genital anatomy of male primates. Proceedings. Biological Sciences/The Royal Society; 255 (1342): 47-53.

5) de Waal, F B M (1995) Bonobo sex and society, the behavior of a close relative challenges assumptions about male supremacy in human evolution. Scientific American, March 1995, 82-88.

[Resolute]

When I say "trying" I don't just mean in some overt manner. Do you agree that most women expect us to want to get them into bed ASAP?

yes, i guess i do.

[Resolute]

And as for this, yes I agree they do expect that. Because women in the society we live in, are taught from a very young age the most valuable thing about them is their body. It's promoted to them everywhere, just watch the soft porn music videos. Their brains are fed this crap. So yes they expect a man to want to get them into bed but it shouldn't be like that really. both should get to know each other to see if both have the same values. The man shouldn't just be thinking " oh I'll screw her and satisfy my little sexual urge" but of course he will. Sex has just become nothing more then a game. A game that a man will end up losing, not the woman.

actually, everyone loses in the long run.

[Victimorthecrime]

My view is that women have this one thing - the fact that men desire them sexually - and they have skillfully exploited this for maximum gain.

Society helps women in this regard. Young males growing up are constantly told to be nice to women but no one ever tells girls to return the favor. Never not once ever.

So what's the problem? All's fair in love and war right? Well here's the problem: young men are catching on. In the USA household formation and birthrates are plummeting. Males are not blindly charging into the commitment trap. Less people means less workers means less taxes paid to a government $14 trillion in debt.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Resolute]

Do you mean for mental or physical health? 3 questions for your help:

1) can you give me good sites to go to that can tell you how to make yourself mentally and physically healthy?

2) how do you orgasm without ejaculating? I have heard of this, but what is the technique, or can you tell me where to go to learn this technique?

3) this is not the jelquing thread, but what is a good site to learn "traction" methods?

Thanks.

by "not ejaculating" i think he means not orgasming.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Guest Klingsor]

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[Resolute]

Not if the women is using a condom. The man is the one who's draining himself of life energy and not creating anything in the process. You may not agree with it, but too much ejaculation is bad for a man's health. That's why of course it's encouraged.

i meant all the negative implications of the current lifestyles of most societies nowadays. not all cultures are like western societies, but they have similarities, and none of them are satisfactory.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Resolute]

I just want to add for anyone who gives a shit that I am not against doing of trying anything that will help my situation. But when you try for nearly 2 decades with ZERO positive results, it's hard not to become negative and cynical.

well, i've given up, finally. i've been swimming against the damned current my whole life, and i'm fucking tired.

[Guest Klingsor]

well, i've given up, finally. i've been swimming against the damned current my whole life, and i'm fucking tired.

Well that is definitely something we have in great common, my friend.

[u.r.what.u.is]

Klingsor, have you ever abstained from masturbation for an extended period in an attempt to restore the functional erections? I masturbated probably on average close to once a day or once every other day for most of my adult life. By my 40s, it was becoming difficult to have an orgasm with masturbation, and almost impossible with actual sex. However, by curbing the masturbation down to about once a month, after about six to eight months, I've had full restoration of functionality, or close to it. I even wake up with erections now...something that used to happen in my teens and twenties.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Resolute]

i don't know if i really agree there, small. i mean there already is an abundance of fat women, many of whom are still sought after, and therefor not doing too badly; and that's in the presence of babes; now imagine if most of the babes were to disappear, i reckon that would make the fat ones even more desirable, in the lack/absence of competition.

another thing is that most men don't, as you put it "have more self restraint and equanimity in the face of temptation", specially when it comes to sex, there's no question that men need/want it "way" more than women do.

and don't forget that men are getting fatter too, so everyone's getting fatter together, which means there won't be any shift in the current state/balance of things, with the rise of obesity in itself.

nonetheless, your post was well written and interesting.

[IrmaJean]

well, i've given up, finally. i've been swimming against the damned current my whole life, and i'm fucking tired.

Did something happen recently, resolute? Would it help to talk about it?

[Resolute]

Did something happen recently, resolute? Would it help to talk about it?

yes, something happened; after 18-22 months working on something that would've given me a chance in this life, i didn't get anywhere, much work and money, all down the drain. that was my final attempt, now i'm done; i give up.

[u.r.what.u.is]

I realize that this compulsive masturbation is a symptom of deeper problems, but the avoidance of actual sex in favor of porn is due solely to the inferiority I feel surrounding my small penis, and now impotence.

Damn, you have quite the libido, which is a cruel torture. I think we'd all have been better off if there was no porn to fuel the masturbation addiction of so many guys and the big dick worship (and small dick ridicule) that pervades.

[IrmaJean]

yes, something happened; after 18-22 months working on something that would've given me a chance in this life, i didn't get anywhere, much work and money, all down the drain. that was my final attempt, now i'm done; i give up.

I'm sorry that happened. It's always hard when we put our hearts into something and invest our time and energy and it doesn't work out. Maybe your effort counts for something, though? I'm sorry you're feeling discouraged. Maybe it helps to sit with these feelings you're having and then perhaps in time they will lift and you will see hope again?

Take care, resolute.

[Resolute]

I'm sorry that happened. It's always hard when we put our hearts into something and invest our time and energy and it doesn't work out. Maybe your effort counts for something, though? I'm sorry you're feeling discouraged. Maybe it helps to sit with these feelings you're having and then perhaps in time they will lift and you will see hope again?

Take care, resolute.

thank you for your kind words.

unfortunately, these aren't just feelings, or something that will just pass, they're not mood swings, or seasonal depression either. it's logic and deductive reasoning, and believe me, i've done the math; i don't stand a chance; the difference/distance between what i am, and what i wanna be, is millions of light years. it was kinda stupid of me to even think that i could somehow make it work.

the problem is, i'm not the settling or content type of person who's just happy to exist, or to just have the bare minimum of everything.

p.s., i don't believe in unjustified and baseless hope either.