Can anyone give me a reason to live?

[dvnJ22]

We care about you and your life. .

Why?

[Jeep]

That such bullshit, I hate when people try, and make you compare yourself to someone who has it worse. It's completely irrelevant, and is just a bandaid on a gunshot wound.

I meant no offense m8 it is just sometimes a shift in perspective can help

In my experience depressive moods are pretty self absorbed, I don't mean that as an insult I am talking about myself here. We are social creatures, we need to experience lots of other peoples perspectives, it doesn't invalidate our concerns but it does take them off the heat to cool down for a bit, this is a powerful coping strategy, to not use it leaves us vulnerable.

None of this may apply to you, I can only speak from my experiences, I really hope you don't hurt yourself dvnJ22, it does get better I promise.

[caninoespacial]

why don't you become a wanderer?

[caninoespacial]

It's better than dying.

[IrmaJean]

I wish I had more time and a better cellphone... Yes, dvn, I do care. Why? Because you are a fellow human being and all of us matter. I think any one of us could find ourselves suffering at some point in our lives. We can stand by one another.

[malign]

Why do we care about you and your life? Because we don't agree with you about your importance, probably. That is, we think you are important.

Which brings up the question of who thinks you aren't. I mean, someone must have convinced you. What if they're wrong and we're right? After all, you're talking about an action which, even if we're wrong, you can always do later. But if they're wrong, you don't get to come back and try again.

And, whatever you might say to us, you do have doubt, or you wouldn't keep asking us. The thing is, you're taking a certain amount of pleasure in pushing away our arguments. Are you punishing the part of you that doubts?

Another question is, what wouldn't be "a bandaid on a gunshot wound"? After all, gunshot wounds are generally treatable. But then, people who've been shot don't usually refuse the standard treatment for the problem. So, what treatment would you accept?

[LaLa]

Hi, dvn, I'm very glad to see you still here.

I'd try to answer your main question: "Why...?"

(I used to be suicidal myself, too. I've never attempted to actually do it, in my case because of my family and boyfriend (then husband), but the fantasies and wishes were quite frequent during 13 years of my life, until a psychotherapist has helped me "out".)

When you allow yourself to imagine what you would wish for the most, if it could be anything (even impossible); what would you wish for? I suppose it wouldn't be death but a pleasant, happy life, would it? (I also suppose you're gonna say you only want to die, because you're now too "blinded" by this idea, but if you tried to get rid of all the temporary "blinders", you'd find out other wishes.)

(Can you allow the fantasy about a pleasant life induce some pleasant (or at least not unpleasant) feelings due to plunging into it?)

Now, what exactly is your wish to die? Isn't it a wish to escape a life so very different from that fantasy? Isn't it based on a conviction that "the two worlds" (reality and dreams) cannot be "bridged over"?

I think that the main reason not to kill yourself is not to deprive yourself of the possibility to experience some positive feelings about life and to find a way out from what caused your suicidal urges (both the external and the internal causes - but are you sure you can tell which is which? Most of the external causes can be "reduced to" internal-ones; it's up to you (-> "internal...") how you deal with what "happens to you" (-> "external...")). It would, of course, necessitate your own efforts and willingness, but those can come and grow stronger and stronger after some initial problems, doubts, ... But to enable the "birth" of your will to live and your willingness to to try, you need the initial "inaction" = not ending your life. And... a help from another person (probably a therapist) would make a considerable difference, too. As a person (and/or the life circumstances) changes, his/her wishes (and "criteria" and evaluations of life and its different "faces/givens") also change, so not only you can come closer to your now desired state of happiness, but your "criteria for happiness" (your dreams, ...) may change (become more accessible to you!), too.

I know some of the reasons of your suicidality are not under your control, but although your "destiny" has brought you so much suffering so far, why couldn't also some random, unforeseeable changes of circumstances happen that would change something for the better? When you say that won't happen, you're only blindly sticking to an irrational depressive thinking caused by these temporarily unfavorable circumstances.

Anyway; I would rather pose the question "why to kill yourself?" - as there are many reasons why not, but you always can automatically refuse each of them, in the state you're in right now, but killing yourself only because it's the only "solution" you can think of right now sounds... Well; how does it sound to you?

Edited May 13, 2014 by LaLa
added something

[dvnJ22]

Yeah your post was crap. It's just infantile dreams.

[Jeep]

Harsh. You asked for help and she was trying to help you, I thought it was a beautiful post.

Please don't waste your life stuck in this rut, there is more to life than this, things can and will get better if you reach for them.

[IrmaJean]

Possibly you aren't open right now to hearing our thoughts? What do you think might help?

Edited May 17, 2014 by IrmaJean
wording

[dvnJ22]

Harsh. You asked for help and she was trying to help you, I thought it was a beautiful post.

Please don't waste your life stuck in this rut, there is more to life than this, things can and will get better if you reach for them.

Yeah, and I hope I hurt her. She's always rubbing her happiness in other people's faces, telling them negative things. I hope she feels horribly, I hope she is in pain like your Christ. Stupid shit about fantasy.

[dvnJ22]

When you allow yourself to imagine what you would wish for the most, if it could be anything (even impossible); what would you wish for? I suppose it wouldn't be death but a pleasant, happy life, would it? (I also suppose you're gonna say you only want to die, because you're now too "blinded" by this idea, but if you tried to get rid of all the temporary "blinders", you'd find out other wishes.)

(Can you allow the fantasy about a pleasant life induce some pleasant (or at least not unpleasant) feelings due to plunging into it?)

Now, what exactly is your wish to die? Isn't it a wish to escape a life so very different from that fantasy? Isn't it based on a conviction that "the two worlds" (reality and dreams) cannot be "bridged over"?

I think that the main reason not to kill yourself is not to deprive yourself of the possibility to experience some positive feelings about life and to find a way out from what caused your suicidal urges (both the external and the internal causes - but are you sure you can tell which is which? Most of the external causes can be "reduced to" internal-ones; it's up to you (-> "internal...") how you deal with what "happens to you" (-> "external...")). It would, of course, necessitate your own efforts and willingness, but those can come and grow stronger and stronger after some initial problems, doubts, ... But to enable the "birth" of your will to live and your willingness to to try, you need the initial "inaction" = not ending your life. And... a help from another person (probably a therapist) would make a considerable difference, too. As a person (and/or the life circumstances) changes, his/her wishes (and "criteria" and evaluations of life and its different "faces/givens") also change, so not only you can come closer to your now desired state of happiness, but your "criteria for happiness" (your dreams, ...) may change (become more accessible to you!), too.

I know some of the reasons of your suicidality are not under your control, but although your "destiny" has brought you so much suffering so far, why couldn't also some random, unforeseeable changes of circumstances happen that would change something for the better? When you say that won't happen, you're only blindly sticking to an irrational depressive thinking caused by these temporarily unfavorable circumstances.

Anyway; I would rather pose the question "why to kill yourself?" - as there are many reasons why not, but you always can automatically refuse each of them, in the state you're in right now, but killing yourself only because it's the only "solution" you can think of right now sounds... Well; how does it sound to you?

So you are telling me how I feel? What do you know, I havn't spoken to you before, thank god. What positive experiencs? Why don't you tell me? And how do you know my problems are temporary? Mine are life long, but wait you know everything already.

[dvnJ22]

Possibly you aren't open right now to hearing our thoughts? What do you think might help?

Why doesn't anyone deal with reality here?

[IrmaJean]

Dvn, I appreciate that you are angry and hurt, but I need to ask you to be respectful of other members. It's good to keep in mind that all of us who are here are struggling with something.

[Jeep]

There are naturalistic techniques to develop self acceptance/love that you could find real, but you would have to be prepared to try them.

[malign]

"Why doesn't anyone deal with reality here?"

Why do you assume there's only one?

When I was suicidal, I thought reality required me to be. I was miserable; that part was real. But what wanted to kill me was the belief that "reality" is a fixed, immutable thing. It ain't.

But see, what might save you isn't coming here to attack people who see the world differently than you do, but instead, to change the way you see it. I understand that you might not be able to, though, and that would be a sad thing. We're hoping you manage it.

What's interesting is that you're spending time trying to change our minds, as if, having got one of us to agree with you, you'd have some kind of permission to act out. I'm sorry, but we won't give that to you (or to the part of you that wants it, rather.) We're going to continue to stand with the part of you that deserves the chance to try to change his reality.

[LaLa]

Well, I have to disappoint you, dvn; I don't feel horribly and I'm not in pain, at least not now. (Perhaps you think I should be pretending otherwise to make you feel better, but... that's not "my style". I try to be honest and true here. I'd like you to feel better, but this way would be just... wrong, in my opinion.)

She's always rubbing her happiness in other people's faces, telling them negative things.

I wonder a bit how many of my post you'd seen before judging me, but that's not important; I take no offence.

If you new me a little better (for instance just from all that I wrote on this forum), you'd know I'm quite often feeling rather unhappy (-yes, at least some news that could perhaps cheer you up ). But yes; you're right that I'm posting here about my positive experiences and sometimes there are some "negative things". I know it may sound insensitive to some people, because of the contrast between "them" and "myself", but I still suppose (and in some cases, I have been right - judging by the reactions of the recipient) that it can be helpful (not always, I know): When someone seen that others were in a somewhat similar situation (as feeling depressed and suicidal, although most often for different reasons) and they managed to survive and get much better, it can give hope and sometimes even some inspiration. And some "critique" (another term for the "negative things"??) of some thinking patterns and approaches can feel bad (I think that mainly to those who have problems accepting critique), but can be also inspirational (for instance, people sometimes disagree and argue against my critique and that makes me knowing them better, understanding better their problem, and thus allows me to find another, hopefully better, way of communicating with them.)

I see now this is not your case and don't worry; I'm not going to continue talking to you (as it makes you feel only worse) - I'm just posting this to clarify my previous approach. And to address at least one of your questions:

And how do you know my problems are temporary? Mine are life long, but wait you know everything already.

How do you know they are life-long? So far, you know only the past and the present, not the future. They will be life-long if your life ends right now. But they might possibly (not necessarily - I didn't say that) end somehow if you decide to live and face them differently. Because, as I was trying to explain in the first post; the external circumstances (including your body etc.) don't need all to change; your suffering (-that's what counts, not so much the problems themselves) could be significantly lowered (or perhaps even vanished) also by finding another (mental) approach to the circumstances and problems. (A personal example: I used to hate my body very much and it was one of the sources of my distress. My body didn't change, but I don't hate it anymore.) And by finding new "worldviews", you might also find some new sources of positive feelings - and those might then compensate for the suffering to such an extent that you wouldn't wish to die anymore.

And; "I know everything already"? Well; at least "I know I know nothing" .

Good luck to you.

[dvnJ22]

Yeah and what kind of world views do you have now about your body? What makes you so special. And what the fuck do you know about about my problems? You only know what I chose to show you.

I've read a lot of your posts, it's why I don't like YOU.

All you are talking about is more shakespearean for there is nothing either good or

bad, but thinking makes it so bullshit.

Your making fun of me, and yet trying to defend yourself.

[dvnJ22]

"Why doesn't anyone deal with reality here?"

Why do you assume there's only one?

When I was suicidal, I thought reality required me to be. I was miserable; that part was real. But what wanted to kill me was the belief that "reality" is a fixed, immutable thing. It ain't.

But see, what might save you isn't coming here to attack people who see the world differently than you do, but instead, to change the way you see it. I understand that you might not be able to, though, and that would be a sad thing. We're hoping you manage it.

What's interesting is that you're spending time trying to change our minds, as if, having got one of us to agree with you, you'd have some kind of permission to act out. I'm sorry, but we won't give that to you (or to the part of you that wants it, rather.) We're going to continue to stand with the part of you that deserves the chance to try to change his reality.

More new age advice....

What so great about your life now? What because you just imagine everything is fine? Why don't you lay it out instead of wading in such vague terms? This is my problem. No one here says anything substantial. It just recycled quotes from pop psychologist they ate up from their therapist.

[dvnJ22]

Dvn, I appreciate that you are angry and hurt, but I need to ask you to be respectful of other members. It's good to keep in mind that all of us who are here are struggling with something.

She's making fun of me, and belittling me. And she does the same to other people here.

[LaLa]

You only know what I chose to show you.

Yes; this is true for all of us.

Your making fun of me, and yet trying to defend yourself.

It rather seemed to me, when I was writing, that I was making fun of myself (and this situation), a bit. But yes; it's a slippery slope; it can be easily misread as offensive...

there is nothing either good or bad

Interesting that this is exactly what I think, too, but you have the opposite impression from what I write. It (as many other things) reminds me of the limitations of my writing (/"self-expression")... It's impossible to "transmit" a "full, non-self-contradictory, ..." message and create a correct and "all-encompassing" image of my views and opinions. I always struggle with it and I'm sorry when it creates as negative emotions in readers as in your case, for instance.

Anyway; I hear your anger and I accept it as an appropriate reaction to what you think I wrote. I see I'm not able to write something useful and helpful for you. So; now I do promise this is my last post for you.

[malign]

What is so great about my life now is that I have it.

What sort of substantial thing do you want me, or us, to say? As you yourself point out, we know nothing about you that you haven't told us. Do you feel you've told us enough that we could solve your problems for you?

If someone is specific, you tell them they can't know, and if someone is general, you want them to "lay it out".

Specifically, what is better for me now? I am no longer in an abusive marriage; instead, I am in a relationship with a caring woman. My identity is less tied (I can't claim to be completely free, just better) to my role in life (back then, to being a father and a husband, no matter how uselessly.) I don't hate myself as much, in part by not living with someone who was so unable to love herself that she had to belittle me constantly.

Am I "objectively" "better", in some way? How the heck would I know? Who's objective and how do I get him to rate my life, before and after? And more importantly, why would I accept his rating instead of mine?

Note the number of questions. There was, in fact, very little in my last post that was "advice", as in "you should do this." I don't want you to take on my, or anyone else's beliefs. What I'm interested in is what are yours.

[dvnJ22]

What is so great about my life now is that I have it.

What sort of substantial thing do you want me, or us, to say? As you yourself point out, we know nothing about you that you haven't told us. Do you feel you've told us enough that we could solve your problems for you?

If someone is specific, you tell them they can't know, and if someone is general, you want them to "lay it out".

Specifically, what is better for me now? I am no longer in an abusive marriage; instead, I am in a relationship with a caring woman. My identity is less tied (I can't claim to be completely free, just better) to my role in life (back then, to being a father and a husband, no matter how uselessly.) I don't hate myself as much, in part by not living with someone who was so unable to love herself that she had to belittle me constantly.

Am I "objectively" "better", in some way? How the heck would I know? Who's objective and how do I get him to rate my life, before and after? And more importantly, why would I accept his rating instead of mine?

Note the number of questions. There was, in fact, very little in my last post that was "advice", as in "you should do this." I don't want you to take on my, or anyone else's beliefs. What I'm interested in is what are yours.

Ok well my advice, and solution is suicide.

[dvnJ22]

Interesting that this is exactly what I think, too, but you have the opposite impression from what I write.

Yeah and it's a stupid view that's why I said I don't believe in it.

[malign]

You're entitled to an opinion.

And for some reason, you feel it important to tell it to me, rather than all the millions of other things you could be doing right now.

Any ideas about why?