Ok, would you quit?

[IrmaJean]

This sounds encouraging, John. It can really help to get things out in the open and therapy can offer the space to do that. There is a foundation of love you and your wife share for one another and that is great. I wish you both the best.

Take care.

[gone]

I'm sorry for such a long post. A lot's happened. Please, once again if you're weary with my martial problems (like I am) please skip over all this. (If this was a reality show, it'd bore the audience to tears. I feel sorry for all those that actually wade through all this.)

Ok, for anyone who's still interested. I'll say first off I didn't do the lions share of the talking at the last appointment. I'll also say it turns out she has a couple major hurdles to work on too. She needs a shrink as bad as I do. I'm sorry if I get something out of sequence or bass-ackwards. An hour of twists and surprises is a lot of words to remember exactly, but I needed some time to pull my thoughts together.

I don't know how to start. I guess I started out by voicing my impatience at the way things were proceeding. I said this was likely my last visit and I thought stopping was the best route to take.

Sarah just said ok there was some things she needed to say before we went any further. She spent a lot of time saying how much she valued our intimacy. How much things were different when she was with me vrs any other guys. I won't repeat them, she made it sound like I was some kind of mind reading lover doing all the right things at the exact right time.

She spent probably a half hour gushing. Then she said she missed it bad and really wanted to work on reconnecting in the bedroom and how she'd help or cooperate in any way.

I told her yes, things were different. I then said Lets compare sex to food. You've spent time at four star restaurants 'eating' delicious prime rib prepared by knowledgeable experts. (she's had sex with well hung, practiced guys whom I considered experts) I have a hard time believing you're eager to enjoy the ineptly prepared Vienna sausage hash I serve up in bed.

She looked at me a few seconds and said Yes, as a matter of fact lets look at food. What's your favorite food when we're grilling out? HOTDOGS! I've seen you look at a plate of T bones or Porterhouses, just glance at some chops and then eagerly prepare a couple of hotdogs to eat. (1)

You can't understand why I'd pass on some well off egotistical fool and a sure orgasm? Why in Gods name would you pass on steaks or chops to eat hotdogs? That's just not normal. Not in anyone's book. And I've watched you. It doesn't matter if the meat is prepared by a 'gifted' expert or not, you'll turn it down everytime. Remember when we went to that steakhouse for my technology meeting? You turned down Prime rib prepared by a master chef, and ate a bologna and cheese sandwich when we got home.

She said "It's personal choice. It's what you find important. It's what suits your personal taste, not what everyone else finds good."

Ok, I hated how she turned my example back onto me. (seems to be happening a lot lately).

It was already getting late in the hour. I finally said Ok, I've got two questions for you, if you'd care to answer them.

Number one, why'd you wait so long? If this has been brewing for years, why now? She immediately said Because it took that wake up call at dads funeral for you to agree to see a therapist again. And I'd point out this time you didn't set any conditions on the visits. That's why I immediately said I keep anything said completely confidential.(2)

I have to set this second part up a little. This is important, crucial actually.

The only thing Sarah has....well not criticized but commented on with my lovemaking. She once said she wished sometimes I wouldn't be quite so gentle. She said I wish sometime you'd just drag me into the house and take me.

O-o-o-o-k, this was an eye opener, but I'd wanted to do just that a number of times. Four or five weeks later I had my chance. We were outside working in the yard. She looked perfect in her 'Daisy Dukes' and a tight, white 'wife beater' tee shirt. Sun hat on with a little smudge of dirt on the end of her nose. I drug her into the house.

I won't go into details, we didn't make it out of the front hall.

The thing is she was more excited than I'd ever seen her. I had her flushed and shaking.

She made me stop.

Just as she was about to let go, she said Stop, stop please stop.

That was definitely a cold shower on the moment. I had her against a brick wall about a foot up in the air. I thought maybe she'd had a cramp, or that maybe I'd inadvertently hurt her in some way. I looked for blood on her back or butt but didn't see any. I never had her as aroused as that day. It turns out she made sure of that.

Fast forward to now. I asked her What happened? Why'd you make me stop? What was I doing so wrong?

She looked down at the floor and said You were doing everything right. I didn't want what was going to happen to happen in front of you.

I was stunned to say the least. I said I thought you were going to, well finish. (her word for orgasm)

She said Yeah, I was. I had to look as confused as I felt. This was a stupid thing to say, but I was definitely not thinking ahead of my mouth. I asked Well, what do you do? Bark like a dog? Howl like a wolf? Squeak like a chipmunk? Cause I gotta tell you I'd have been pleased as punch with any of it.

She said no, nothing like that. She said I was the first guy that she cared about what I'd think about her hours or days later and she didn't want to do something 'dumb' (her word) and have me think less of her.

Yeah, I wasn't feeling real sorry, I was pissed off. I said You mean there might have been a few times I COULD have bought you to orgasm but you were suppressing yourself? Do you know how long I've been fighting this? Do you know how long or how deeply this has affected me?

And what about me? How many times have I finished with you watching? How many embarrassing noises have I made? How many moans or yells have came out of my mouth? I was extremely pissed by the time I stopped and had raised my voice considerably.

She just looked uncomfortable, whipped.

The therapist spoke up for the first time and said "After the initial surprise wears off, I think you might be a little more understanding." I asked Why? She said "It's obvious when you're on the outside looking in, you're two peas in a pod." "Hasn't this been what you've been doing for the past 9 years? Worrying about what she thinks of you? Feeling inferior? Uncomfortable when undressed in front of her?"

"The only difference was she could suppress her orgasms while still enjoying sex with you. You said you still had a normal sex drive. It must have been sheer torture for you to cut off sex altogether. But stopping was the only way you could stop the insecurities. She just didn't have to go quite that far."

Once again I was blindsided. I'd had a good mad working and had ice water poured all over it. We were past our hour, that wrapped up the visit. She smiled and asked if I was still quitting. I said No, I'd definitely be back. She just said there's a lot of hard work in front of you two, but you've supported each other this long. I think you're going to make it just fine.

This is long I know. There's bound to be small things I've left out but I think these were the main points.

(1) She was exactly right. I'm not a pork eater at all (Bacon's it really, and who doesn't love bacon?) I really don't like pork roast, ham, chops and I'll actively avoid them. I'm not partial to beef. An occasional bloody cheese burger is good, but I have to dress it out with garden tomatoes, Vidalia onions, pepperjack cheese, pickles and lettuce.

I do like turkey breast and chicken. But the epitome of grilled meats really is hotdogs. Either a line of mustard on one side and a line of ketchup on the other, or Coney sauce on top and then heaped with onions in either case and I'm ecstatic. I'll pass on roast beef or ham for lunch meats. Give me bologna anytime. I can turn a bologna sandwich into a meal.

(2) I've actually been to see a therapist years ago. I had three or four visits when he said he wanted to see us both. Sarah was willing, but I said I had three conditions.

1 She had to agree not to share any of the visits with her friends.

She had (and still has) a bad habit of sharing everything with her small group of friends. I know a lot of women tend to tell each other very intimate details in general conversation.

2 She had to agree to tell the whole truth if the therapist asked her a direct question.

She tended to be very closed mouthed about her former love life. She eventually found out I pretty much knew everything she'd had ever told her friends. (Which was pretty much everything she'd ever done.) She didn't have any secrets left. But this whole revelation at this last meeting might have been bought to light years earlier if she had gone.

3 I wanted her to tell me why we were going. What was the ultimate outcome? What exactly were we trying to accomplish?

I still remember her just sitting there and nodding her head and saying Ok. She got up and walked off and never bought up me seeing a therapist again. (Until recently after her dads death.

[gone]

Spent all afternoon and evening in the garden picking sugar snap peas and green beans. We froze most of the peas, ran a couple canners of beans and fixed a mess of both for supper tonight with grilled chicken breast.

This sounds encouraging, John. It can really help to get things out in the open and therapy can offer the space to do that. There is a foundation of love you and your wife share for one another and that is great. I wish you both the best.

Take care.

Thanks Irma. I didn't mean to ignore your post. You are right. I wasn't sold on therapy before, but this therapist seems to have some insight. Thanks for your good wishes.

[PenisTruth]

This is illuminating John.

Human sexuality is very complex and no one teaches us where we can get 'stuck'. This is just one of the millions of ways that understanding can get 'lost'.

Thank you for frankly posting on it. It would be useful for 100s if not 1000s of other couples.

[dvnJ22]

I'm sorry for such a long post. A lot's happened. Please, once again if you're weary with my martial problems (like I am) please skip over all this. (If this was a reality show, it'd bore the audience to tears. I feel sorry for all those that actually wade through all this.)

Ok, for anyone who's still interested. I'll say first off I didn't do the lions share of the talking at the last appointment. I'll also say it turns out she has a couple major hurdles to work on too. She needs a shrink as bad as I do. I'm sorry if I get something out of sequence or bass-ackwards. An hour of twists and surprises is a lot of words to remember exactly, but I needed some time to pull my thoughts together.

I don't know how to start. I guess I started out by voicing my impatience at the way things were proceeding. I said this was likely my last visit and I thought stopping was the best route to take.

Sarah just said ok there was some things she needed to say before we went any further. She spent a lot of time saying how much she valued our intimacy. How much things were different when she was with me vrs any other guys. I won't repeat them, she made it sound like I was some kind of mind reading lover doing all the right things at the exact right time.

She spent probably a half hour gushing. Then she said she missed it bad and really wanted to work on reconnecting in the bedroom and how she'd help or cooperate in any way.

I told her yes, things were different. I then said Lets compare sex to food. You've spent time at four star restaurants 'eating' delicious prime rib prepared by knowledgeable experts. (she's had sex with well hung, practiced guys whom I considered experts) I have a hard time believing you're eager to enjoy the ineptly prepared Vienna sausage hash I serve up in bed.

She looked at me a few seconds and said Yes, as a matter of fact lets look at food. What's your favorite food when we're grilling out? HOTDOGS! I've seen you look at a plate of T bones or Porterhouses, just glance at some chops and then eagerly prepare a couple of hotdogs to eat. (1)

You can't understand why I'd pass on some well off egotistical fool and a sure orgasm? Why in Gods name would you pass on steaks or chops to eat hotdogs? That's just not normal. Not in anyone's book. And I've watched you. It doesn't matter if the meat is prepared by a 'gifted' expert or not, you'll turn it down everytime. Remember when we went to that steakhouse for my technology meeting? You turned down Prime rib prepared by a master chef, and ate a bologna and cheese sandwich when we got home.

It's personal choice. It's what you find important. It's what suits your personal taste, not what everyone else finds good.

Ok, I hated how she turned my example back onto me. (seems to be happening a lot lately).

It was already getting late in the hour. I finally said Ok, I've got two questions for you, if you'd care to answer them.

Number one, why'd you wait so long? If this has been brewing for years, why now? She immediately said Because it took that wake up call at dads funeral for you to agree to see a therapist again. And I'd point out this time you didn't set any conditions on the visits. That's why I immediately said I keep anything said completely confidential.(2)

I have to set this second part up a little. This is important, crucial actually.

The only thing Sarah has....well not criticized but commented on with my lovemaking. She once said she wished sometimes I wouldn't be quite so gentle. She said I wish sometime you'd just drag me into the house and take me.

O-o-o-o-k, this was an eye opener, but I'd wanted to do just that a number of times. Four or five weeks later I had my chance. We were outside working in the yard. She looked perfect in her 'Daisy Dukes' and a tight, white 'wife beater' tee shirt. Sun hat on with a little smudge of dirt on the end of her nose. I drug her into the house.

I won't go into details, we didn't make it out of the front hall.

The thing is she was more excited than I'd ever seen her. I had her flushed and shaking.

She made me stop.

Just as she was about to let go, she said Stop, stop please stop.

That was definitely a cold shower on the moment. I had her against a brick wall about a foot up in the air. I thought maybe she'd had a cramp, or that maybe I'd inadvertently hurt her in some way. I looked for blood on her back or butt but didn't see any. I never had her as aroused as that day. It turns out she made sure of that.

Fast forward to now. I asked her What happened? Why'd you make me stop? What was I doing so wrong?

She looked down at the floor and said You were doing everything right. I didn't want what was going to happen to happen in front of you.

I was stunned to say the least. I said I thought you were going to, well finish. (her word for orgasm)

She said Yeah, I was. I had to look as confused as I felt. This was a stupid thing to say, but I was definitely not thinking ahead of my mouth. I asked Well, what do you do? Bark like a dog? Howl like a wolf? Squeak like a chipmunk? Cause I gotta tell you I'd have been pleased as punch with any of it.

She said no, nothing like that. She said I was the first guy that she cared about what I'd think about her hours or days later and she didn't want to do something 'dumb' (her word) and have me think less of her.

Yeah, I wasn't feeling real sorry, I was pissed off. I said You mean there might have been a few times I COULD have bought you to orgasm but you were suppressing yourself? Do you know how long I've been fighting this? Do you know how long or how deeply this has affected me?

And what about me? How many times have I finished with you watching? How many embarrassing noises have I made? How many moans or yells have came out of my mouth? I was extremely pissed by the time I stopped and had raised my voice considerably.

She just looked uncomfortable, whipped.

The therapist spoke up for the first time and said "After the initial surprise wears off, I think you might be a little more understanding." I asked Why? She said "It's obvious when you're on the outside looking in, you're two peas in a pod." "Hasn't this been what you've been doing for the past 9 years? Worrying about what she thinks of you? Feeling inferior? Uncomfortable when undressed in front of her?"

"The only difference was she could suppress her orgasms while still enjoying sex with you. You said you still had a normal sex drive. It must have been sheer torture for you to cut off sex altogether. But stopping was the only way you could stop the insecurities. She just didn't have to go quite that far."

Once again I was blindsided. I'd had a good mad working and had ice water poured all over it. We were past our hour, that wrapped up the visit. She smiled and asked if I was still quitting. I said No, I'd definitely be back. She just said there's a lot of hard work in front of you two, but you've supported each other this long. I think you're going to make it just fine.

This is long I know. There's bound to be small things I've left out but I think these were the main points.

(1) She was exactly right. I'm not a pork eater at all (Bacon's it really, and who doesn't love bacon?) I really don't like pork roast, ham, chops and I'll actively avoid them. I'm not partial to beef. An occasional bloody cheese burger is good, but I have to dress it out with garden tomatoes, Vidalia onions, pepperjack cheese, pickles and lettuce.

I do like turkey breast and chicken. But the epitome of grilled meats really is hotdogs. Either a line of mustard on one side and a line of ketchup on the other, or Coney sauce on top and then heaped with onions in either case and I'm ecstatic. I'll pass on roast beef or ham for lunch meats. Give me bologna anytime. I can turn a bologna sandwich into a meal.

(2) I've actually been to see a therapist years ago. I had three or four visits when he said he wanted to see us both. Sarah was willing, but I said I had three conditions.

1 She had to agree not to share any of the visits with her friends.

She had (and still has) a bad habit of sharing everything with her small group of friends. I know a lot of women tend to tell each other very intimate details in general conversation.

2 She had to agree to tell the whole truth if the therapist asked her a direct question.

She tended to be very closed mouthed about her former love life. She eventually found out I pretty much knew everything she'd had ever told her friends. (Which was pretty much everything she'd ever done.) She didn't have any secrets left. But this whole revelation at this last meeting might have been bought to light years earlier if she had gone.

3 I wanted her to tell me why we were going. What was the ultimate outcome? What exactly were we trying to accomplish?

I still remember her just sitting there and nodding her head and saying Ok. She got up and walked off and never bought up me seeing a therapist again. (Until recently after her dads death.

Well this took an unexpected turn. A good one though.

[gone]

This is illuminating John.

Human sexuality is very complex and no one teaches us where we can get 'stuck'. This is just one of the millions of ways that understanding can get 'lost'.

Thank you for frankly posting on it. It would be useful for 100s if not 1000s of other couples.

Thanks PT. I don't have a clue if these posts actually help anyone else. I value the opinions of a lot of folks here. Posting has certainly helped me through some tough times.

For me there's no other way to post than frankly. It is what it is, you know? Thanks for your reply.

Well this took an unexpected turn. A good one though.

Short, sweet and exactly right. Another post I wish I could hit the like button about 4 times on.

Thanks DVN.

[IrmaJean]

It's what you find important.

I think this is key. This and being open to understanding that different things may be meaningful for different people. Emotional honesty with one another is so important too, which you both seem to be doing in therapy now. That is wonderful news. I hope you continue to work with your therapist and that you and your wife grow closer together in your relationship.

Take care.

[gone]

Thanks Irma. I'm afraid the hard part is yet to come.

I don't look forward to this.

We've helped each other through tough times before. We'll be ok.

[malign]

John, you seem surprised to find that instead of being uninterested in your life, your friends are all pulling for you to get the happiness you deserve. That sounds like some kind of comment on your past friendships, to me ...

{I love bogus statistics.} 92% of the time, people react to others for their own reasons that have nothing to do with us, not for the reasons we imagine they do, which usually closely involve us. So, for instance, if you say Hi to someone on the street and they're surly, it's probably not because you're the wrong species or you're ugly or have body odor; it's probably because they're having a bad day all by themselves.

Sometimes, the reasons people have for their reactions are intensely painful ones, as some of the rest of this site can demonstrate. Reasons generally get more and more painful, the more intimate they are. Which brings up that I hope you're planning to protect your wife's confidences as closely as you asked her to protect yours. We would be interested to hear how things go, but with that limit in mind.

Clearly, she's deeply frightened about some part of the sexual experience. It may be extremely difficult for her to tell you why, so difficult that, up until now, she's been living without sexual fulfillment just to avoid the topic. Tread lightly, love her, and keep an open mind. That's all I know how to tell you.

Oh, and good luck. :-)

[gone]

Hi Malign. I'm not the brightest bulb in the store. When you say I'm surprised, does that go back to my comment about not being sure if my posts help anyone else? I really don't know if my posts help anyone else here as my situation is completely different than 99% of the guys that post here.

I doubt if I help anyone else here, I feel privileged to ask the guys opinions here as I know physically we're in the same boat.

I'm acutely aware of the fact I already have what some guys here want. I just wait for one of the posters here to crawl right up my a$$ and chew me out for not being grateful for what I've had these past 28 years. I try to keep my head down and not post about Sarah a lot, but she figures centrally in my sexual problems. She was the reason I made my very first post here.

I consider a lot of the posters here friends. I try to point out I'm living proof an ugly, short, underhung guy can beat the odds and marry way up out of his league. But it's not a bowl of cherries even years later. The majority of things are good, but there's still a lot of insecurities. (and as I found out, on both sides.)

I tell all the guys at work "Everyone deserves one bad day." If a normally easy going guy is short tempered and biting one day, I'll ignore it. Couple of days and I'm asking what's wrong and trying to let him talk it out. No body's 'Mr. Rodgers' (the kids show) all the time.

If you meant something else, please let me know.

Sometimes, the reasons people have for their reactions are intensely painful ones, as some of the rest of this site can demonstrate. Reasons generally get more and more painful, the more intimate they are. Which brings up that I hope you're planning to protect your wife's confidences as closely as you asked her to protect yours. We would be interested to hear how things go, but with that limit in mind.

Clearly, she's deeply frightened about some part of the sexual experience. It may be extremely difficult for her to tell you why, so difficult that, up until now, she's been living without sexual fulfillment just to avoid the topic. Tread lightly, love her, and keep an open mind. That's all I know how to tell you.

Yeah, the only reason I feel able to post as openly as I do now is the relative anonymity of this site. I do have one friend I can talk to. We've been friends since grade school. He and his partner (he's as gay as I am straight) live a few miles away, I love him like a brother. Unlike Sarahs group of friends, he keeps everything I tell him close. Nothing leaves the room.

If Sarah wanted to post on a discussion site I wouldn't care at all, she could discuss as intimate a things as she wanted. It's the fact that I personally see and interact with the ladies she's sharing our most intimate things with that bothers me so much.

And it's been proven more than once what they know, their husbands (or their other female friends) knows....then a friend knows....then a friend of a friend knows. It's exponential. A few days later, she might as well took a full page ad out in the newspaper. Years ago, that's why I wanted her to agree to not tell her little group anything that was discussed if we both went to that therapist.

I wouldn't post anything too intimate. I'm not really one to get too adult or hard core at any rate. And I'm not really that good a writer. I write like I talk which means I get hard to follow as I tend to jump around a lot. I'll never write the all American novel, that's for sure.

I'm not in any way a therapist. I tend to be like a lot of guys. I want a definite problem set down in front of me, and I want to immediately want to start problem solving it.

I'm not gabby. A lot of folks think of me as 'short' or unfriendly. I'm really not, but I just don't talk a lot or 'rattle' on and on about something.

This could be completely wrong, I don't know at all. I think her problems go back to Ronnie (her first guy at college) and how he burnt her. She didn't care emotionally about any of the other guys she was with after him. (even the ones that fell for her) She didn't worry about how they would view her since there wasn't a long term relationship to worry about.

We didn't have sex immediately. We (I) waited quite a while. She had a chance to start caring for me before we got intimate. This is a double edged sword. My size didn't matter at all, she liked the whole of me, but since she was getting emotionally involved for the first time since Ronnie (Ronnie=a**hole in my dictionary) she subconsciously had reservations about opening up completely and getting thoroughly burnt again...

(Do you only get one unconditional Love? Do you ever open up completely twice?.....here we go again.)

Or I could be absolutely, completely wrong and it's something else entirely.....just don't know. (Don't know if I'll really ever know)

Thanks for your posts and well wishes Malign, you have rare insight.

[gone]

There's not much to update. We had our next visit scheduled for last Friday, but I had to cancel to take my dad to a doctors visit. He can't drive any more so my sisters (I have five) and I split up the driving chores. He was getting the results of some tests and wanted me there to help wade through the medical jargon.

My wife and I are supposed to be doing a once a month visit. The therapist said we could adjust the scheduling as needed. If I get as many curve balls as I got last time once a month just lets me barely digest what's going on. The therapist said if she had any cancellations she'd let us know, otherwise it'll be a bit before our next meeting.

I think this is going to be hard. I'm trying to regain a sense of intimacy and closeness with her again. We've been sleeping on opposite sides of a queen size bed for years. This morning we had a thunderstorm come through. We had lightening and thunder for a couple hours. She slid to the middle of the bed, pulled me over to her and pulled my left arm around her. We spooned for a long time, for the first time in literally years.

Thing is years ago I'd have got...well excited. Being up against her like that was always a turn on. My mind was just swirling. I knew it wouldn't go any farther, but I wondered if it did would I even be able to? Would it be as awkward as the last time? (and it's been YEARS for that, too) I know stress, being uncomfortable and feeling awkward is as anti-intimate as you can get.

It'll take months. I hope that therapist has real magic to share. I just don't see how I'm ever going to get over this, let alone her and her intimacy problems.

Baby steps.

[Resolute]

wow john,thank god for thunderstorms eh?

i hope your next thunderstorm (hopefully very soon) is so big that she pulls you over for more than just spooning or cuddling,if you catch my drift .

and trust me you'll be very "able" i'm sure;except this time if she says "stop john stop" in the middle of it like that time,don't comply.

[Victimorthecrime]

I would take her on a vacation Retro, just spend quality time together & reconnect. She sounds like she is worth the effort and if God forbid you did break up you are gonna wanna look back & say "I did everything I could to save it". Good luck.

[gone]

wow john,thank god for thunderstorms eh?

i hope your next thunderstorm (hopefully very soon) is so big that she pulls you over for more than just spooning or cuddling,if you catch my drift .

and trust me you'll be very "able" i'm sure;except this time if she says "stop john stop" in the middle of it like that time,don't comply.

I dunno resolute, I kinda hope the next time is a while off. I've got a lot of issues to deal with first. I've still got the same tiny penis I've always had. I've got to break free from the inadequacy thinking somehow.

And so far, up till now that one time was a fluke. I've never been able to do that any other time. She just got excited, lost control and let herself go too far. (Maybe I should say SHE'S never let herself go like that any other time.) That one time I really thought she was physically hurt. I had to stop.

Thanks for your input. I need all the help I can get.

I would take her on a vacation Retro, just spend quality time together & reconnect. She sounds like she is worth the effort and if God forbid you did break up you are gonna wanna look back & say "I did everything I could to save it". Good luck.

I was giving idle consideration along those lines. She's been very tied up with her Computer tech job. She was moved to administrator status this spring and put in charge of four people in the tech department. She's doing fine, but has a lot more responsibilities. She's also been busy with our church's VBS program this past week. I'm kinda waiting to see how things change come August. We'll be the only ones in the house then. If it seems things get more tense I'll suggest some time away. Kind of a time out from the kids the jobs and the therapist visits.

Just us.....sounds good to me right now.

Thanks victim...I always value your input.

[Resolute]

I think this is going to be hard. I'm trying to regain a sense of intimacy and closeness with her again. We've been sleeping on opposite sides of a queen size bed for years.

here's a thought,what about replacing your current bed with a smaller one,a twin or whatever comes after queen;your wife is petite and doesn't need that much room anyway;at least this way you'll speed up the intimacy part.don't consult her on the issue,just surprise her one day and make up some excuse about your current bed;wasn't comfortable or too old or something.

the vacation thing is also a good idea,as long as you go some place with small beds .

p.s,just so you know,i'm a sucker for happy endings,and i don't mean the porn type.

[gone]

here's a thought,what about replacing your current bed with a smaller one,a twin or whatever comes after queen;your wife is petite and doesn't need that much room anyway;at least this way you'll speed up the intimacy part.don't consult her on the issue,just surprise her one day and make up some excuse about your current bed;wasn't comfortable or too old or something.

the vacation thing is also a good idea,as long as you go some place with small beds .

p.s,just so you know,i'm a sucker for happy endings,and i don't mean the porn type.

Ok, I was going to dismiss this with her being the one that picked out our bedroom suite. She got an antique styled bed with a high headboard, dresser, dressing table, an end table for her side of the bed and an actual antique smoking table/cabinet for my side.

We live in an old Hoosier high house. It has large rooms and high ceilings. Really, a small bed would be dwarfed in there.

BUT...she really doesn't take up much room and....

I remember a night in an adult sized sleeping bag when we were first married....I know that was a long time ago, and we were just kids but....wow....

Thanks resolute... I've got my fingers crossed for that ending.

[malign]

My suggestion: don't do things by stealth. Talk to her, if you can. It seems like there's a lot going on in your marriage that you guys haven't been able to say out loud.

The double-edged sword seems to be that she wants more intimacy, but she also has difficulty with being vulnerable, or something, at the climax. You have similar issues, in that you want sex but you're afraid it won't be good for her (or you're certain that it won't be, whether or not you're right about that.)

Asking for more opportunities to be close, no strings attached, would at least signal which way you would like things to go. Do you have a smaller, guest bedroom? That might be fun place to go, at a time when the house is empty except for you two. Or you could suggest a camping trip ...

Take care, John.

[Resolute]

Ok, I was going to dismiss this with her being the one that picked out our bedroom suite. She got an antique styled bed with a high headboard, dresser, dressing table, an end table for her side of the bed and an actual antique smoking table/cabinet for my side.

We live in an old Hoosier high house. It has large rooms and high ceilings. Really, a small bed would be dwarfed in there.

BUT...she really doesn't take up much room and....

I remember a night in an adult sized sleeping bag when we were first married....I know that was a long time ago, and we were just kids but....wow....

Thanks resolute... I've got my fingers crossed for that ending.

like malign said,a camping trip might be nice if she's into that sort of thing.

i don't know if it's possible or not,but what about just replacing the mattress rather than the whole bed,since she's attached to the whole decor of the house/room etc..

i disagree with malign (slightly) on the talking to her part;i feel she'l "forbid" it or something ;but honestly,she probably won't go for it;that's why i suggested taking what malign calls "stealth" action.

[gone]

My suggestion: don't do things by stealth. Talk to her, if you can. It seems like there's a lot going on in your marriage that you guys haven't been able to say out loud.

The double-edged sword seems to be that she wants more intimacy, but she also has difficulty with being vulnerable, or something, at the climax. You have similar issues, in that you want sex but you're afraid it won't be good for her (or you're certain that it won't be, whether or not you're right about that.)

Asking for more opportunities to be close, no strings attached, would at least signal which way you would like things to go. Do you have a smaller, guest bedroom? That might be fun place to go, at a time when the house is empty except for you two. Or you could suggest a camping trip ...

Take care, John.

like malign said,a camping trip might be nice if she's into that sort of thing.

i don't know if it's possible or not,but what about just replacing the mattress rather than the whole bed,since she's attached to the whole decor of the house/room etc..

i disagree with malign (slightly) on the talking to her part;i feel she'l "forbid" it or something ;but honestly,she probably won't go for it;that's why i suggested taking what malign calls "stealth" action.

Malign, you have a lot of insight in your post. Yeah we do both have our problems, and right at this minute I really don't know how either one of us are going to work through them. It just might be impossible.

resolute, I think I'd tick her off royally if I snuck in and changed things up. Unfortunately it's been years since I did any camping, she really never was into camping or hiking trails or any thing like that.

We are both trying, but we still have the day to day tiffs and small disagreements.

About the bed.....wouldn't that be addressing the symptoms but not really a cure? I mean, we should be able to curl up together in any size bed we're in...right? I want us to be close and touching because we want it that way and are comfortable with it, not because we're being forced into close quarters by a physical lack of space. You guys see what I mean? We're both going that extra mile with each other. I hope we can make this last.

Baby steps....

[Resolute]

About the bed.....wouldn't that be addressing the symptoms but not really a cure? I mean, we should be able to curl up together in any size bed we're in...right? I want us to be close and touching because we want it that way and are comfortable with it, not because we're being forced into close quarters by a physical lack of space. You guys see what I mean? We're both going that extra mile with each other. I hope we can make this last.

Baby steps....

i wouldn't call it addressing the symptoms,my thinking is that it will sort of force you guys to be close at first,but after a while after you both realize how much you really like it,crave it,and need it,you'll want to do it even without small mattresses and sleeping bags.

either way you've got to take action john,i mean none of us are getting any younger,and you only live once;and you only see your therapist about once a month,which will take ages to make any real headway;you've both already lost many precious years due to shyness or inhibition,please don't lose any more years taking things "too" slowly;and of course you know that i'm not trying to say that you should rush things,but sometimes a certain amount of decisiveness and/or risk might be necessary.after all,she is your wife,and you love her,and if you think she's worth it,do something about it.

as always me,and i think many others on this forum are rooting for you john,make us proud .

[IrmaJean]

I would also encourage you to be open and talk with her, if you can.

There's a therapy and exercises called sensate focus that might be beneficial to both of you. I think it's okay to go by the pace you feel most comfortable with. Holding one another is a great place to start. As a woman, I enjoy cuddling a lot; it can be very connective. Possibly your wife feels similarly? Do the two of you ever get out and spend quality time alone together? Sometimes when life gets very busy, it can be easy to let things go, but I think all relationships need nurturing. Nurturing and taking care of the relationship would bring all around benefits, I would think.

Best of luck to both of you, John.

[gone]

i wouldn't call it addressing the symptoms,my thinking is that it will sort of force you guys to be close at first,but after a while after you both realize how much you really like it,crave it,and need it,you'll want to do it even without small mattresses and sleeping bags.

either way you've got to take action john,i mean none of us are getting any younger,and you only live once;and you only see your therapist about once a month,which will take ages to make any real headway;you've both already lost many precious years due to shyness or inhibition,please don't lose any more years taking things "too" slowly;and of course you know that i'm not trying to say that you should rush things,but sometimes a certain amount of decisiveness and/or risk might be necessary.after all,she is your wife,and you love her,and if you think she's worth it,do something about it.

as always me,and i think many others on this forum are rooting for you john,make us proud .

Uuummmm I don't know how many are rooting for me. Ambivalent maybe at best.

Look resolute I've been many YEARS tearing myself down. And the simple fact is I DO have the smallest penis she's ever had. Pure, simple fact. All the talk in the world will never change that. What I have to do is convince myself that that fact doesn't matter. Brother, that's a hard thing to do. It didn't help at all when I beat my head against the wall trying for 27 years to give her one, just ONE lousy orgasm.

And while I'm busy dithering around trying to get my head on straight she's got her own problems to think about. I've told her on a couple different occasions I can't go back to the way it was 25 years ago. She's going to have to work on her side too. I can't make anyone proud with all this. This is just a bad situation of my making.

Thanks resolute

I would also encourage you to be open and talk with her, if you can.

There's a therapy and exercises called sensate focus that might be beneficial to both of you. I think it's okay to go by the pace you feel most comfortable with. Holding one another is a great place to start. As a woman, I enjoy cuddling a lot; it can be very connective. Possibly your wife feels similarly? Do the two of you ever get out and spend quality time alone together? Sometimes when life gets very busy, it can be easy to let things go, but I think all relationships need nurturing. Nurturing and taking care of the relationship would bring all around benefits, I would think.

Best of luck to both of you, John.

I'll check on the sensate stuff I.J. We haven't been back since the "great discussion". I don't know how she feels about the holding. (I'm really uncomfortable with the word 'cuddle'. Don't know why....I probably need my head shrunk on that too.) She has been in a much better mood these past 5 or 6 months, but we still sit on separate couches in the living room. Really, honestly I figured I'd be in another bedroom when Steph leaves for collage in two weeks. It wouldn't surprise me if this still happened.

I think it's been 12 or 13 years ago since we've had a night alone. Some of our folks watched the kids while we spent the night in Nashville IN at a bed and breakfast. We did have sex the first night but this was well into my downward spiral. It wasn't a good night at all. I didn't even try the next night.

We have literally had kids in the house every night other than those two for the past 25 years. There's never been that night when all three were staying overnight at a friends. It didn't really matter, nothing would have happened anyway.

Thanks I.J. I believe we'll need all the luck we can get.

[malign]

I'm rooting for you, John. I bet most of the guys hope you find a way to happiness, because then they can believe it might happen for them too.

You said that with both of you having problems, things might become impossible. Sure, they might: anything's possible. ;-)

But since every couple have problems, it can help to have it out in the open that both people do, because it makes it easier to see the other person's perspective. Not what their problem is, exactly; it can be very difficult to understand what someone else's problem really is, but the fact that they have them too can build a sense of teamwork in solving them.

You guys are a team, you know. Any couple who can raise children and see them off into the world must have some strengths that got them through the hard times. The hard thing is that you're going to have to have faith, not only in each other, but each of you in yourselves.

So, you could be in a separate bedroom. Do you want to be? Have you asked her whether she wants you to be?

[gone]

No, I really don't want to be in a separate bed or bedroom. I rather liked the thunderstorm this past weekend. I have no idea if she wants me out, I haven't asked her.

Maybe I've been looking at this all wrong. I kinda assumed she was talking about sex all this time. Maybe it's the holding and hugging she's wanting. It could be I can avoid the whole sex conundrum I was fearing. I don't know yet. I'm hoping our next visit we just get to talk again. More of her expectations might be expressed.

Thanks Malign

[Resolute]

No, I really don't want to be in a separate bed or bedroom. I rather liked the thunderstorm this past weekend. I have no idea if she wants me out, I haven't asked her.

Maybe I've been looking at this all wrong. I kinda assumed she was talking about sex all this time. Maybe it's the holding and hugging she's wanting. It could be I can avoid the whole sex conundrum I was fearing. I don't know yet. I'm hoping our next visit we just get to talk again. More of her expectations might be expressed.

Thanks Malign

sometimes it seems like you don't even read your own posts;if you did,you'd know like i do,that she definitely does not want you anywhere other than right beside her.i don't know however if she wants sex or just longs for the holding etc.,notice i didn't say "cuddling".

now if i were you,i'd just hold her,hug her,and so forth;whether in bed or otherwise,at any time or place,no occasion necessary.i guarantee she won't dislike it.and don't worry,she won't expect sex;if she does she'd bring it up in session,and won't demand that you perform on the spot.

anyway,don't be so terrified,what's the worst that can happen?