Ok, would you quit?

[gone]

Great post resolute! You're right, We're both where we want to be. She's plenty out spoken enough (read hard-headed) she'd have asked me to the guest room long ago of that's where this was headed.

I plan to pull her to the middle of the bed tonight and spoon for a while. Some closeness and contact is what we both need.

I thought about what you asked about if we did have sex. I don't want it to be as bad as it got towards the end years ago. I try to keep my expectations low. I know this will be awkward and fumbling for a while. I guess I don't want this to be a deal killer. Things really are going pretty well right now, I guess I hope HER expectations aren't too high either.

Thanks resolute!

Both the boys will be home Sat night, so I'm going to grill. We're pulling a ton of stuff from the garden right now so we'll have plenty of veggies. Stephanie and 3 or 4 of her friends are doing a weekend at Holiday World, I've got a ton of mowing to do so I'm gonna put the boys to work. Sarah wants to do a little flower bed work so it sounds like the thugs will be in high demand.

[Resolute]

Great post resolute! You're right,

all my posts are great,and i'm always right .

kidding aside,i'm glad you're gonna hold her tonight.

let us know how it turns out.

[gone]

Hey resolute. Probably no holding tonight. I just got called into work. Got a problem, and it's a doozy. I'll be early morning getting this done.

Just real quick the therapist called earlier this afternoon, we had an appointment this afternoon. Nothing earth shattering, but a few interesting things did surface. After more than a month she even remembered us! (ha-ha) I'll post about it tomorrow. Unfortunately it'll probably be another long one.

[Resolute]

Hey resolute. Probably no holding tonight. I just got called into work. Got a problem, and it's a doozy. I'll be early morning getting this done.

that's too bad.

Just real quick the therapist called earlier this afternoon, we had an appointment this afternoon. Nothing earth shattering, but a few interesting things did surface. After more than a month she even remembered us! (ha-ha) I'll post about it tomorrow. Unfortunately it'll probably be another long one.

well,i hope it's mostly positive stuff.

[gone]

I thought seriously about not posting about this last meeting. I feel like I owe it to the few that are following this. I usually stick in a paragraph or two at the beginning or end that have nothing to do with my marriage problems or being small, just everyday life. It helps me gather my thoughts and kinda get my head on straight again. I hope no one's ticked off about me doing this.

I'm finding more and more I was completely wrong on a couple things, and making a few assumptions that just weren't true. This session went way over. We were the last ones in, so nothing was said about it.

The therapist started with asking if we had discussed anything or talked at all over the last month. We said no, not really. She immediately started talking about 'exercises' that she wanted us to start doing. She didn't say the word 'Sensate', but the routine she started describing sounded like it. She asked a little jokingly if either of us had any massage training. She seemed really surprised when I said I'd had an adult massage class a long time ago.(1)

I told her I'd stopped giving them a long while back. My wife piped up and said Yeah he used to rub my feet for me but quit that all of a sudden too. I must have looked odd or guilty because the therapist looked at me and asked Well, why?

I said it's a long story, and would probably raise hard feelings. She said here, this place is where you two talk things out. ...this is kind of like a safe haven. I said OK......

I'll cut this real short. Sarah had slept with a pretty well endowed guy. Me and this guy just knew each other remotely. I heard all about it from a mutual friend. The friend had told me the whole evening in detail. Mutual said "The one thing the guy said he really enjoyed was the way she gasped, yelled out and caught her breath while he was 'pouring it to her'. I'd thought nothing more about it for years.

I told the therapist Fast forward to many years later. She's laying back on the couch and I'm rubbing her feet. She's really getting into it and was oooohing and mmmmmming. I thought to myself Boy I wish I could get some sounds like that in be.....I didn't even finish bed when that whole conversation with mutual came crashing back into my head. I thought MY God, she really does get vocal when something's feeling good. I felt like sh*t. I never rubbed her feet or gave her a sensual massage again.

I told all this to the therapist and said there's other little things I quit doing because of small things happening that affected me. She asked What else? I said ok, one more and this one is even a little humorous years later.

I said years ago she used to give me oral. I don't know she especially liked to do it, so it wasn't a big disappointment when I stopped letting her. The last time I was heavily into my downward spiral. I was mentally embarrassed and I finally thought "My God I've got to feel like one of those little cocktail sausages inside her mouth. I went flaccid so fast I had to back away and pretend I had a leg cramp so I could get up and walk out. I NEVER put myself into a position that she could even attempt to do this to me again. I used to love it when my wife made up a crockpot with her home made barbeque sauce and those little sausages. The funny thing is I've never been able to eat one of those again. I actually feel sick to my stomach.

I just said that's enough from me, what were you saying about touch therapy? Sarah immediately said NO! My turn.

She looked at me for hours...(Ok seconds, but it seemed like hours) and said Do you remember before we'd fooled around you started to tell me you were on the small side, but if I gave you a chance you'd shine? And I cut you off short? I nodded yes. She said I told you I'd been with a guy big enough that I was sore when I walked for two days after and I didn't want that, I wanted you? Again I nodded yes. (She was talking very quietly, but I could tell I was on damn thin ice. I kept my big yap shut.)

She just looked at me for 10 or 15 seconds. The whole thing finally popped into my meager consciousness, and I said HIM? He was the guy that did that? Sarah, he's on the large end of normal, but he's not freakishly big or anything. Not that I've heard.

She exploded "JOHN, HOW BIG DO YOU THINK I AM DOWN THERE!? I had to have three C-sections because I just wasn't big enough to give birth like normal women. (She's always had major head problems with not being able to give birth vaginally.)

I just kept quiet enough to hear that ice crack. She spat out Yeah, you and him. He I could believe but I expected better of you. That big cumbersome ox doesn't know the sounds of pleasure and gasps of pain! It doesn't surprise me he told everyone how he'd just pleasured me out of my head.

Once again, I'm just staring like an idiot. Something I'd worried about over the years had just blown up in my face.

She looked at the therapist and said There's one more thing I'd like to bring up as long as we're here.

Therapist said ok.

Sarah looked at me and said You like to compare sex to food. Let me use that analogy. John, not everytime has to be a four course meal complete with all the trimmings. Sometimes I just want a fast cheeseburger and fries.

When we were having sex you tended to make everytime a holy jihad, trying at all costs to give me that grand finish even if it took hours. Sometimes you go overboard. You last too long. We're hours trying to make it a grand event when fast would do.

She said you bought up that time many years ago in the front hall. What was that, 15 or 20 minutes? It was rough, naughty spontaneous and I loved it! You said it was the only time you had me close, but how many other times did you try that? Every once in a while a quickie or nooner is great!

I said "In my defence, I might be more inclined to like this if you had 'finished' even one out of 20 times."

She said I know, I've got issues and I'm trying hard to work on them. But if we ever do get back to having sex I want you to remember this.

We quit talking, the therapist said Oh yeah, I want to give each one of you one of these. It was a small booklet called Sex after 50. It had a bunch of stuff about how guys and ladies bodies change and what difficulties folks can experience.

The therapist said I don't want you to even attempt having sex for a while, but when the time comes I want you to be aware you've both changed in the past 10 years. She went on to describe some touching and 'closeness' exercises. Stroking and rubbing is ok, but no Touching or even looking at the 'privates'.

Done for another month.........thank God.

(1) When we were first married we challenged each other to take a not for credit adult course at our local tech collage. The deal was we got to pick each others class. She chose this 'tantric adult nude sexual hot oil get turned on completely massage' class. I'm afraid my choice for her was much more mundane. I chose a 'smart consumer' auto mechanics class. Very beginner auto mechanics class so's at least she would know a brake pad from a maxi pad. We both enjoyed them. We had a lot more time and money back then.

[Resolute]

I thought seriously about not posting about this last meeting. I feel like I owe it to the few that are following this. I usually stick in a paragraph or two at the beginning or end that have nothing to do with my marriage problems or being small, just everyday life. It helps me gather my thoughts and kinda get my head on straight again. I hope no one's ticked off about me doing this.

i'm glad you decided to post.

i'm not ticked off about those paragraphs.

I'm finding more and more I was completely wrong on a couple things, and making a few assumptions that just weren't true. This session went way over. We were the last ones in, so nothing was said about it.

The therapist started with asking if we had discussed anything or talked at all over the last month. We said no, not really. She immediately started talking about 'exercises' that she wanted us to start doing. She didn't say the word 'Sensate', but the routine she started describing sounded like it. She asked a little jokingly if either of us had any massage training. She seemed really surprised when I said I'd had an adult massage class a long time ago.(1)

I told her I'd stopped giving them a long while back. My wife piped up and said Yeah he used to rub my feet for me but quit that all of a sudden too. I must have looked odd or guilty because the therapist looked at me and asked Well, why?

I said it's a long story, and would probably raise hard feelings. She said here, this place is where you two talk things out. ...this is kind of like a safe haven. I said OK......

I'll cut this real short. Sarah had slept with a pretty well endowed guy. Me and this guy just knew each other remotely. I heard all about it from a mutual friend. The friend had told me the whole evening in detail. Mutual said "The one thing the guy said he really enjoyed was the way she gasped, yelled out and caught her breath while he was 'pouring it to her'. I'd thought nothing more about it for years.

I told the therapist Fast forward to many years later. She's laying back on the couch and I'm rubbing her feet. She's really getting into it and was oooohing and mmmmmming. I thought to myself Boy I wish I could get some sounds like that in be.....I didn't even finish bed when that whole conversation with mutual came crashing back into my head. I thought MY God, she really does get vocal when something's feeling good. I felt like sh*t. I never rubbed her feet or gave her a sensual massage again.

I told all this to the therapist and said there's other little things I quit doing because of small things happening that affected me. She asked What else? I said ok, one more and this one is even a little humorous years later.

I said years ago she used to give me oral. I don't know she especially liked to do it, so it wasn't a big disappointment when I stopped letting her. The last time I was heavily into my downward spiral. I was mentally embarrassed and I finally thought "My God I've got to feel like one of those little cocktail sausages inside her mouth. I went flaccid so fast I had to back away and pretend I had a leg cramp so I could get up and walk out. I NEVER put myself into a position that she could even attempt to do this to me again. I used to love it when my wife made up a crockpot with her home made barbeque sauce and those little sausages. The funny thing is I've never been able to eat one of those again. I actually feel sick to my stomach.

I just said that's enough from me, what were you saying about touch therapy? Sarah immediately said NO! My turn.

She looked at me for hours...(Ok seconds, but it seemed like hours) and said Do you remember before we'd fooled around you started to tell me you were on the small side, but if I gave you a chance you'd shine? And I cut you off short? I nodded yes. She said I told you I'd been with a guy big enough that I was sore when I walked for two days after and I didn't want that, I wanted you? Again I nodded yes. (She was talking very quietly, but I could tell I was on damn thin ice. I kept my big yap shut.)

She just looked at me for 10 or 15 seconds. The whole thing finally popped into my meager consciousness, and I said HIM? He was the guy that did that? Sarah, he's on the large end of normal, but he's not freakishly big or anything. Not that I've heard.

She exploded "JOHN, HOW BIG DO YOU THINK I AM DOWN THERE!? I had to have three C-sections because I just wasn't big enough to give birth like normal women. (She's always had major head problems with not being able to give birth vaginally.)

I just kept quiet enough to hear that ice crack. She spat out Yeah, you and him. He I could believe but I expected better of you. That big cumbersome ox doesn't know the sounds of pleasure and gasps of pain! It doesn't surprise me he told everyone how he'd just pleasured me out of my head.

Once again, I'm just staring like an idiot. Something I'd worried about over the years had just blown up in my face.

She looked at the therapist and said There's one more thing I'd like to bring up as long as we're here.

Therapist said ok.

Sarah looked at me and said You like to compare sex to food. Let me use that analogy. John, not everytime has to be a four course meal complete with all the trimmings. Sometimes I just want a fast cheeseburger and fries.

When we were having sex you tended to make everytime a holy jihad, trying at all costs to give me that grand finish even if it took hours. Sometimes you go overboard. You last too long. We're hours trying to make it a grand event when fast would do.

She said you bought up that time many years ago in the front hall. What was that, 15 or 20 minutes? It was rough, naughty spontaneous and I loved it! You said it was the only time you had me close, but how many other times did you try that? Every once in a while a quickie or nooner is great!

I said "In my defence, I might be more inclined to like this if you had 'finished' even one out of 20 times."

She said I know, I've got issues and I'm trying hard to work on them. But if we ever do get back to having sex I want you to remember this.

We quit talking, the therapist said Oh yeah, I want to give each one of you one of these. It was a small booklet called Sex after 50. It had a bunch of stuff about how guys and ladies bodies change and what difficulties folks can experience.

The therapist said I don't want you to even attempt having sex for a while, but when the time comes I want you to be aware you've both changed in the past 10 years. She went on to describe some touching and 'closeness' exercises. Stroking and rubbing is ok, but no Touching or even looking at the 'privates'.

Done for another month.........thank God.

(1) When we were first married we challenged each other to take a not for credit adult course at our local tech collage. The deal was we got to pick each others class. She chose this 'tantric adult nude sexual hot oil get turned on completely massage' class. I'm afraid my choice for her was much more mundane. I chose a 'smart consumer' auto mechanics class. Very beginner auto mechanics class so's at least she would know a brake pad from a maxi pad. We both enjoyed them. We had a lot more time and money back then.

well,a few notes:

1-it's a shame that the main reason (or one of the main reasons) for your current situation is her ex's and your misinterpretation of the noises she made during sex with him;which brings me to my second point:

2-private matters should never be discussed with friends,relatives,acquaintances etc..

3-if i were you,i'd let her give me as many blowjobs as she wants;you know,just to keep her happy .

4-start doing what the therapist said,right away;touching,stroking,rubbing,holding etc..everything except privates.

and keep us posted.

[Resolute]

one more thing,as your wife said,you don't have to be marathon man;which i'm sure you know by now.

[gone]

I can't post every statement made in those sessions. I cut, clip and shorten a lot of stuff. There was a lot more to mutuals retelling of studs story than I could relate.

I cut the therapist telling me if all the plumbing is working right like I said, she was going to give me a cease and desist order on any masturbating at any time. Sarah was sitting right there, I was plenty embarrassed, but that didn't last long since my wife got ticked at me.

She said I had given her the impression I couldn't 'perform' and that was why she wasn't more questioning as to why I'd quit with sex.

Some of you might remember about a year and a half ago I quit my old doctor and started going to a new office with 3 or 4 doctors practicing. Sarahs best friend 'Dee' is a nurse and had just started as my old Docs new nurse. I know how these women talk and compare notes and I didn't want a family friend in a position to examine me nude and be able to report back to Sarah and the group how I was doing medically. (I know about the hippa laws but come on, you think that stops nurses from talking?)

EDIT: I didn't mean they compare notes about size or sexuality. I meant Dee and Sarah comparing notes on my currant state of health.

I switched care givers. I don't think I ever outright said I was unable to 'get it up', but as long as it kept the peace I didn't dissuade the thought either.

Sarah was pretty pi$$ed, but she had bigger fish to fry with me and got distracted.

[gone]

i'm glad you decided to post.

i'm not ticked off about those paragraphs.

well,a few notes:

1-it's a shame that the main reason (or one of the main reasons) for your current situation is her ex's and your misinterpretation of the noises she made during sex with him;which brings me to my second point:

2-private matters should never be discussed with friends,relatives,acquaintances etc..

3-if i were you,i'd let her give me as many blowjobs as she wants;you know,just to keep her happy .

4-start doing what the therapist said,right away;touching,stroking,rubbing,holding etc..everything except privates.

and keep us posted.

The only thing I can say in my defense was I wasn't there (thank God). All I heard was the story third hand. Hell, I didn't know better.

MUCH LATER EDIT: I meant to say also he wasn't an ex. They just met and left a party together. The completely ironic part is I was at that party too. Part of mutuals story involved him asking me if I remembered he and I watching them leave.

Honestly, I don't think she was in any actual relationship after college until me.

I couldn't agree more about the sharing of stories. My wife and her group of friends will share and talk about ANYTHING. They aren't mean, they don't make fun of people but no topic is off limits for serious discussion.

Honestly, I was extremely surprised this story came from mutual from the actual source. (Stud was just bragging about how he'd actually 'bagged' Sarah ******** and how he was going to ask her out again. (He did, she turned him down flat) Of course he told everyone she wanted to sleep with him again but HE turned HER down)

She must have been embarrassed about the whole thing and kept it to herself

I'm not nearly to the point of even having her see me nude again, let alone any kind of intimate touching or oral.

Absolutely, we've already started. It really helps to get over the awkwardness.

one more thing,as your wife said,you don't have to be marathon man;which i'm sure you know by now.

Part of that's on purpose, part is just me physiologically. If I'm in the middle of sex and I'm getting.....well 'close', I'll stop and let myself calm down. If I withdraw completely and wait I'll usually be 10 or 15 minutes just getting back close again. And I've found I can do this over and over.

I guess I'm going to have to quit doing that.

[gone]

Sarah and I were alone in the house Friday night and Saturday morning. We were sitting in a small screened in area early morning, her with her tea and me with my coffee. She looked at me and asked if I had anymore bombs I was going to drop at the next appointment. I said Nope, I'm all out. How 'bout you? You've had a few doozys. She sipped her tea (She calls it Cha, with a small r sound at the end) and said No I'm fresh out. I guess this means the next appointment won't have nearly the drama....(I sure hope she's right.)

I had the boys help me take the stained glass panels around our front entrance out. We have large double oak doors, and side lights on both sides and above them. Years ago when were refurbishing the doors we removed the old cracked glass that was in those panels.

I had some custom sized new double paned inserts made. the inside frames are aluminum with an inert gas between them. I installed them on each side and over the whole door and framing. The doors are real old, not a standard size. The windows on each side are probably 7 foot tall and 12 inches wide. The top glass goes over both doors and both sidelights. It's probably 8 foot wide and 12 inches tall.

I love antiques. If I possibly can I NEVER sand or replace old wood. It's just too precious and irreplaceable. I restored these two huge original doors and as much of the casing and trim as I possibly could.

It looked plain, even with the new sidelights trimmed out with some new oak trim. We finally decided to have stained glass panels made by a lady up around Nashville/Bloomington. We talked and came up with a design we both liked.

Sarah is 1/2 Swedish, 1/4 French and 1/4 Chinese. I'm 1/2 Norwegian, 1/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

On each side of the door we have 'Welcome Friends' written in each of those in stained glass vertically, hers on one side and mine on the other. We separated the different greetings with small Amish Hex Circles.(about 6 inches around) You usually see these good luck designs painted huge above barn doors. They're supposed to keep away evil.

Above the door we have it in English. Behind the letters, we divided the top panel into 4 areas. In the first there snow flakes with a light blue background. It fades into light green with seeds sprouting and small green leaves. This fades into a dark green with flowers blooming and a Robin with it's head up singing. This panel fades into a riot of colored leaves for autumn, with a Jack o Lantern smiling a toothy grin.

When you walk through the doors you're in the front hall/vestibule. It's a long fairly narrow area with the staircase going up on the left, and a sofa table sitting in front of a red brick wall on the right. I have a large hanging chandelier coming down from the ceiling. With the chandelier on, looking from the outside the stained glass lights up like the sun is hitting it.

We're going to have the panels releaded. I don't know what the original lady used to hold the glass together, but it's starting to break down and crumble some. I know there's been stained glass in churches for centuries and is still fine. Before it gets too bad we're going to have the lead redone.

I've made some boxes out of plywood. The thugs and I have the panels safely inside in bubble wrap. I'm going to haul them to a place that does artistic restoration work. They're slow right now and shot me a good price on redoing them.

[Resolute]

I had the boys help me take the stained glass panels around our front entrance out. We have large double oak doors, and side lights on both sides and above them. Years ago when were refurbishing the doors we removed the old cracked glass that was in those panels.

I had some custom sized new double paned inserts made. the inside frames are aluminum with an inert gas between them. I installed them on each side and over the whole door and framing. The doors are real old, not a standard size. The windows on each side are probably 7 foot tall and 12 inches wide. The top glass goes over both doors and both sidelights. It's probably 8 foot wide and 12 inches tall.

I love antiques. If I possibly can I NEVER sand or replace old wood. It's just too precious and irreplaceable. I restored these two huge original doors and as much of the casing and trim as I possibly could.

It looked plain, even with the new sidelights trimmed out with some new oak trim. We finally decided to have stained glass panels made by a lady up around Nashville/Bloomington. We talked and came up with a design we both liked.

Sarah is 1/2 Swedish, 1/4 French and 1/4 Chinese. I'm 1/2 Norwegian, 1/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

On each side of the door we have 'Welcome Friends' written in each of those in stained glass vertically, hers on one side and mine on the other. We separated the different greetings with small Amish Hex Circles.(about 6 inches around) You usually see these good luck designs painted huge above barn doors. They're supposed to keep away evil.

Above the door we have it in English. Behind the letters, we divided the top panel into 4 areas. In the first there snow flakes with a light blue background. It fades into light green with seeds sprouting and small green leaves. This fades into a dark green with flowers blooming and a Robin with it's head up singing. This panel fades into a riot of colored leaves for autumn, with a Jack o Lantern smiling a toothy grin.

When you walk through the doors you're in the front hall/vestibule. It's a long fairly narrow area with the staircase going up on the left, and a sofa table sitting in front of a red brick wall on the right. I have a large hanging chandelier coming down from the ceiling. With the chandelier on, looking from the outside the stained glass lights up like the sun is hitting it.

We're going to have the panels releaded. I don't know what the original lady used to hold the glass together, but it's starting to break down and crumble some. I know there's been stained glass in churches for centuries and is still fine. Before it gets too bad we're going to have the lead redone.

I've made some boxes out of plywood. The thugs and I have the panels safely inside in bubble wrap. I'm going to haul them to a place that does artistic restoration work. They're slow right now and shot me a good price on redoing them.

you write so well john,you sound just like one of the gals .

just kidding.don't punch a hole in the wall.

honestly though,keep up the good work;keep posting frequently and don't wait till your next session.

[Resolute]

so,any developments john?even minor ones?

i hope things are going well.

[gone]

Things are going ok. One small thing.....I broke one of the rules and it resulted in some unwanted reactions.

Sarah had a week from hell last week. She had been stressed out horribly. She got home Friday ready to rip someones head off and cry at the same time. So....

At dusk I went to our bedroom while she was unwinding watching some tv. I started some scented massage oil warming up and lit a few candles and had some soft bossa nova music ready (go to you tube and find Andrea Razzauti 'Lovers Kiss'. I had about 2 hours of this music ready).

About 9 I took her hand and led her to the bedroom. I started to undress her. She immediately said "You're not supposed to be doing this!" I told her "This is JUST a massage for stress, nothing more I promise."

She actually sounded a tiny bit disappointed, and just said "Ah" I undressed her completely and helped her lay down face down. I started the music real low, dimmed the lights and poured a little warm oil in my palms. I massaged her probably 30 minutes on her back side ( I just gotta stick in here Gawd she's got a cute little butt). I helped her roll over and started to massage her front, starting at her feet. (This is the first time I've rubbed her feet or massaged her in....like 10 years.)

I was JUST giving her a massage and wasn't concentrating on one particular area. (you know) But a massage includes breasts and inner thighs. Yeah, as I lightly brushed my fingertips over her chest she started breathing heavier and showed signs of getting turned on. (She has at least three involuntary reactions that shows arousal, she was definatly starting.)

I immediately turned her onto her front again and just started massaging her shoulders. She finally started breathing lighter and shallowly. In 20 minutes she was sound asleep. I covered her with a light sheet, crept out and let her sleep late Saturday morning.

Stephanie and I was in the screened in porch off the kitchen when Sarah appeared wearing her silk looking kimono/house coat. Her and Steph talked a few minutes and sipped tea when Steph sniffed and asked "Does anyone else smell a faint odor of Panama Jacks tropical sunscreen?" We looked at each other and said No. About 30 seconds later Sarah got up and said she's off to take a shower.

Sorry if this is too long or too much information. Once again I'll say I wasn't going to post anything, but when I do I always get long winded.

[Resolute]

Things are going ok. One small thing.....I broke one of the rules and it resulted in some unwanted reactions.

Sarah had a week from hell last week. She had been stressed out horribly. She got home Friday ready to rip someones head off and cry at the same time. So....

At dusk I went to our bedroom while she was unwinding watching some tv. I started some scented massage oil warming up and lit a few candles and had some soft bossa nova music ready (go to you tube and find Andrea Razzauti 'Lovers Kiss'. I had about 2 hours of this music ready).

About 9 I took her hand and led her to the bedroom. I started to undress her. She immediately said "You're not supposed to be doing this!" I told her "This is JUST a massage for stress, nothing more I promise."

She actually sounded a tiny bit disappointed, and just said "Ah" I undressed her completely and helped her lay down face down. I started the music real low, dimmed the lights and poured a little warm oil in my palms. I massaged her probably 30 minutes on her back side ( I just gotta stick in here Gawd she's got a cute little butt). I helped her roll over and started to massage her front, starting at her feet. (This is the first time I've rubbed her feet or massaged her in....like 10 years.)

I was JUST giving her a massage and wasn't concentrating on one particular area. (you know) But a massage includes breasts and inner thighs. Yeah, as I lightly brushed my fingertips over her chest she started breathing heavier and showed signs of getting turned on. (She has at least three involuntary reactions that shows arousal, she was defiantly starting.)

I immediately turned her onto her front again and just started massaging her shoulders. She finally started breathing lighter and shallowly. In 20 minutes she was sound asleep. I covered her with a light sheet, crept out and let her sleep late Saturday morning.

Stephanie and I was in the screened in porch off the kitchen when Sarah appeared wearing her silk looking kimono/house coat. Her and Steph talked a few minutes and sipped tea when Steph sniffed and asked "Does anyone else smell a faint odor of Panama Jacks tropical sunscreen?" We looked at each other and said No. About 30 seconds later Sarah got up and said she's off to take a shower.

Sorry if this is too long or too much information. Once again I'll say I wasn't going to post anything, but when I do I always get long winded.

her heavy breathing is the unwanted reaction?

steph is your daughter,right?

and i don't think it was long at all.

p.s

i was getting aroused myself by your description.

[gone]

her heavy breathing is the unwanted reaction?

steph is your daughter,right?

and i don't think it was long at all.

p.s

i was getting aroused myself by your description.

No, not the heavy breathing. I had no intention of turning her on or starting anything along those lines. Her starting to get excited was the unwanted reaction. I wanted to turn her off. Calm her down and relax her.

(She can fake heavy breathing, but there's other things she can't fake.)

Yeah, Stephanie's our daughter. Two days and she's off to college.

Yeah, that might have been T. M. I. I guess.

[Resolute]

No, not the heavy breathing. I had no intention of turning her on or starting anything along those lines. Her starting to get excited was the unwanted reaction. I wanted to turn her off. Calm her down and relax her.

(She can fake heavy breathing, but there's other things she can't fake.)

so you wanted to relax her,and she got turned on instead,as did i from all the way here lol -and just by your brief description- so why is that unwanted?

doesn't it make you happy that you can turn on your wife?

and btw,how did you resist not banging her,with her all naked and you rubbing her in some serious places?and if i understood you correctly,you massaged her for a total of 50 minutes?wow.if i massaged a woman for 50 minutes,well,let's just say i'd expect 500 minutes of sex in return.

you're truly a selfless guy john.

i think i'm having a harder time waiting,for your therapist to suggest that you &^%$ your wife,than you are,lol.

[gone]

Baby steps....this has been a long time in the making.

Later edit: The massage was over an hour...you have to take your time to relax and not rush things.

This wasn't a deep muscle massage, lots of light stroking and soft rubbing....just relaxing.

[Resolute]

Baby steps....this has been a long time in the making.

yes,of course.i'm not suggesting you rush things.

but it does seem like quite a big step.i mean it's the first time you guys have had this kind of physical contact in many years;so congrats on that.

[Resolute]

About 9 I took her hand and led her to the bedroom. I started to undress her. She immediately said "You're not supposed to be doing this!" I told her "This is JUST a massage for stress, nothing more I promise."

i just wanna say that i'm proud of you for being so brave and just taking initiative;and i'm sure your wife was impressed and happy/flattered as well.

[gone]

Wasn't really brave at all. It was just a massage, not seduction. She was happy, this relaxed her enough for her to get a sound nights sleep.

This is all just kinda side stuff, just married things in general. It really has no bearing on the main issues we both have

Hers is an unconscious lack of trust. Mine really is centered on my size. They're both more phobic than anything. (unreasonable fears)

But unreasonable, unwarranted fears can be overpowering. Heck anorexics starve themselves to DEATH, and that's an unwarranted body image problem (with control issues thrown in).

I made it very clear I wasn't going back to the way things were years ago, when I was just happily ignorant. Poking away while in bed believing if I just tried hard enough she'd finish and I could be her best lover. Neither happened.

We're both working to redefine our deep held beliefs in this.

She's got to convince her unconscious self I'm not going anywhere. She's not getting left. She's never going to come home and catch me with another person.

I've got to convince myself that I'm not simply too small to stimulate her. I've got to convince myself that my size is still in her arousal zone. I firmly believe I'm the smallest guy she's ever been with. That's a simple fact. It's hard to tell yourself "oh, it doesn't matter." When deep down I fear "She's telling you that to spare your feelings."

I've preached here many times that I thought while she IS in love with me, she really settled for subpar sex.

I know that one time in the front hall stands out, but I mean really, ONE TIME in 27 years of marriage really doesn't change anything.

Now I'm in a bad mood. I'm annoyed....and I feel like sh*t.

[Resolute]

hey john,i hope my post didn't have anything to do with you feeling this way.

my life is sucking very much too,specially lately.so you're not alone buddy.

[gone]

No, nothing to do with you. I start to think we're making a little progress. Then I look down and see the same tiny thing that got me into this mess in the first place.

You're right.....life sucks.

[u.r.what.u.is]

Retr0john, bear with me if I missed something you've already explained, but is sexual intimacy one of your goals here? I read that you and your wife love one another (that massage was a loving expression of it). I also read that are are working on anger issues. But I'm wondering why you two are not having sex. .. is that related to your anger? I just wonder how long you will remain married of sex never happens. I know this from my own experience.

If I need to reread something, just point me to the right post.

[Resolute]

Retr0john, bear with me if I missed something you've already explained, but is sexual intimacy one of your goals here? I read that you and your wife love one another (that massage was a loving expression of it). I also read that are are working on anger issues. But I'm wondering why you two are not having sex. .. is that related to your anger? I just wonder how long you will remain married of sex never happens. I know this from my own experience.

If I need to reread something, just point me to the right post.

john will elaborate when he comes,but since i'm somewhat aware of their situation,i'll give a short response.

they both have issues that need to be addressed,and john doesn't want things to go back to the way they were when they were having sex,which was a very long time ago.

so their therapist suggested they do intimate things,like hugging,touching,rubbing etc.,but without a sexual component.

and hopefully in time they'll get there.

[u.r.what.u.is]

Thanks for helping this lazy reader out. I get it.