The Karen Owen Story and the Meaning of Sex

[Jessie]

did I ever call skynight skylight?

Im so sorry!

Roger- you answered your own questions about minimum thresholds earlier…

it has to be somewhere…. and if you are under it then you are under it.

And as other have said if the girth is ALSO lacking then it could be that Kingslor has much less volume than you and it puts him under those girls threshold.

ps I should say I have personally heard girls openly ridicule 5 inch penises over the years (who knows if they measured?)

e.g. " I bet he's only got a 5 incher- the saddo" that kinda thing…

It seems crazy on one level that a few cm cubed of flesh can be so impactful but its just a fact of life.

[Jessie]

My exes NEVER used size to upset me- they treated me with respect - they were nice people.

So whilst theoretically you might be right about Kingslor's exes…. dont bank on it…

[Resolute]

I also suspect (on the basis of what he has said) that the relationships may have been pretty dysfunctional. And Klingsor (with every due respect to him) is clearly a guy with some emotional/psychological issues. Some women can be pretty evil if things turn bad ("hell hath no fury", etc...)

i believe it was his actual size that they had an issue with,based on some of the things he said (mostly deleted now),and his measurements;although there's no denying that he has some serious issues.

[Resolute]

Thing is Roger, you come across very masculine to me. Manly, mature, intelligent well balanced. Women find that attractive. Your girth is excellent,

are you hitting on him small?

[Resolute]

i hear wedding bells.

[Guest Klingsor]

I also suspect (on the basis of what he has said) that the relationships may have been pretty dysfunctional. And Klingsor (with every due respect to him) is clearly a guy with some emotional/psychological issues. Some women can be pretty evil if things turn bad ("hell hath no fury", etc...)

Well done Roger on drawing me back into the quagmire. Very well played. Bishop to queen 4.

I am going to interrupt my quiet Friday evening and brandy to respond to this because I want people to know the truth of my own experience, and I do not want your innuendo about my relationships - a subject which you may falsely think you can discuss with the same expertise and conclusive arrogance that you pursue your own obviously satisfactory relationships - to lend credence to your very whitewashed and condescending views of the SPS issue.

To summarize very briefly, I have always had low self-esteem based on humiliating experiences with other males in the typical situations – youth camps, locker rooms, general banter among males, teenagers mostly and college students later. I was able to keep this in check, however, with my first two romances. I never once brought up these insecurities with them, for although I was comically inexperienced with women, I knew enough to know that showing insecurity as a male was suicide for a relationship, and I was also extremely anxious to actually lose my virginity.

I had very emotionally intense, positive relationships with these women. We had fun together, I felt like a man, and I was happy for the only time in my life. Sexually, I had no impotence problems at that time, and I enjoyed giving oral sex and they enjoyed receiving it. I was very passionate. But I sensed, for several reasons, that they were not satisfied during intercourse, or maybe that intercourse was not as “intense” as I felt it should have been for them, even though I was very energetic and had adequate stamina.

Both these women eventually broke up with me, and in both cases I had to pull the reason why out of them – they did not want to tell me and cause me any pain. There was no dysfunction, there was no stake in making vengeful remarks or insults. They were crying. The second one and I had such a good relationship that she even initiated an attempt to reconcile and become a couple again which I myself refused because of the humiliation.

Only the third would I consider a dysfunctional relationship. I went into this one out of desperation and a need for validation, and the consequences of it were my being contemptuously used by a manipulative single mother who was very hateful when I was eventually dumped, discarded because I was no longer useful. She said and did things that really broke me.

I will add also that none of these women were virgins, they had all experienced other men.

Any emotional/psychological issues that I have now were a direct result of these experiences and chronic sexual frustration, and in no way were the failures of the first two breakups attributable to these imbalances.

Now that you have tasked me and forced me to recount very personal experiences in order to save face, I want you to answer a question that you refused to answer on another occasion. Your standard act consists of deprecating the fact that a woman is not going to measure a penis when a guy drops his pants to let the fun begin. And you are right, they won’t. And from this one premise you immediately dismiss every anecdotal report from a woman regarding a guy’s dimensional size as arbitrary, inconsistent, and inaccurate.

Now just so you don’t wriggle out of this like you did last time, I am going to preface my question by saying that at no point have I ever suggested that you engage in anything pedophilic or perverted with another male, least of all your own father. But you yourself have brought this up and said on more than one occasion that:

my father is, in fact, "extra large"...?)

I asked you once before to simply do what you accuse these women of doing, and that is give your best estimate of your father’s size without having recourse to any type of measuring device, only the visual image impressed in your memory. I can only assume you have seen it for you to make such a statement in the first place. I would find it truly strange if your father or mother for some bizarre reason told you this or you asked him about his size.

Just to make this crystal clear – I am not suggesting anything perverted here, and I have absolutely no interest in your father or his penis beyond the fact that you have done exactly what you accuse these women of doing and assigning an ambiguous size classification to it, and now I want you to answer in the same manner that they would answer under the same questioning, that is, “What was its size in inches”?

If you refuse to answer this, you falsify the primary premise of your entire argument of debunking and marginalizing every anecdotal report made by a woman on size estimation.

Finally, I just want to say I agree partly with this:

Thing is Roger, you come across very masculine to me. Manly, mature, intelligent well balanced. Women find that attractive. Your girth is excellent, and although your length isn't impressive, there's definitely nothing wrong with it in my humble opinion.

I appreciate it's difficult to think such small numbers matter so much, but I still think they do.

And I believe it’s the reason why I find you so incredibly, obnoxiously supercilious. I have strongly detected that acrid whiff of cocksure presumption from time to time that comes with men just like those Duke lacrosse players – that thoroughly inbred sense of intellectual entitlement of someone well traveled and healthily content in all things related to living and life. Your slipperiness in evading direct questions, your strategy of winning your point through dissembled insinuations, may be willfully ignored by some of the others, but not me.

Hardboiled in the cauldron of life? Try 28 years of constant frying in the drippings of everyone else's mental, social, and physical well-being. You don’t know what despair or hopelessness is, you really don’t, and it’s deeply insulting to me to read that from you.

[u.r.what.u.is]

I don't think either gender is better than the other on college campuses. If anything, the boys have more accounting to do with regard to date rape.

I wanted to have sex in college, but SPS made me too fearful to really make it happen. I made some half hearted attempts that went nowhere. But I don't look back on those days feeling that girls are evil. I guess I might understand better how you (Klingsor) feel if I was ridiculed and/or rejected. I never took the risk. In fact, I did not expose myself to a non-virgin woman until quite recently - after divorce.

[Victimorthecrime]

I don't think either gender is better than the other on college campuses. If anything, the boys have more accounting to do with regard to date rape.

[Guest Klingsor]

The word "condescending" is certainly wrong. I am trying to help people - that is all.

I see. Well that's very interesting.

Oh yes, that reply to my sincere unburdenings surrounding the entirety of my 18 month sex life is not sneering and disdainful at all. That interpretively unrestricted, open-ended reply is the best rebuttal you have to offer? You can't offer anything more substantial than a sneering suggestion to convince the anguished readers that my relationships were all doomed from the beginning because of the twisted naivete of the mentally ill in their pursuit of relationships, that these romances might even have only been the psychotic delusions of a severely disturbed recluse brought on by an unhealthy fascination with a stolen cover of Playboy magazine and smoking dried rose petals in a homemade bong? :lol:

This isn't a debate club, and I'm not here to "win points". I was trying to be helpful and constructive. I am not writing here just for you.

The tone of your last post was relatively hostile, in my opinion. Possibly even replying to it was unwise on my part?

(Please do note: I am not going to enter into an acrimonious exchange or war of words with you here - it just isn't going to happen. )

Well that's good Roger because I'm not going to engage you. The sweetest, most delectable nourishment I can take away from your posts is the consolation from the fact that no matter how fantastically acrobatic your statistical analyses become, or how arrogantly derisive you behave in your self-confirmed success at being a true gift from the Almighty to women, someone in the genuine grip of this curse will make their wandering, lost way to this forum and read your advice. In their desperation they will take it, believe it, and attempt to reconquer the world (or at least women) in their new confidence. And then, just as their juggernaut of elated self-esteem reaches full speed on life's road of sexual pursuit, they will turn a corner and make a head on collision with the lead monolith of reality.

It would be true karmic justice if that poor, rejected, unfortunate soul made his way to your gym in his despair and his attempts to mask the rejection and the anger in aerobic diversion, only to walk into the locker room and hear you and your groupies discussing the fantastic pussy you had over the weekend and how she went crazy over you, your arrogant smiles and deafening guffaws. Then, in his unleashed rage at the unfairness and the fury at the tissue of lies he had read by some insincere, sadistic poster in an online community, he does something regrettable (which I do not in any way advocate or condone) and you end up having to piss through a tube for the rest of your life. :D

So long RogerJ, it's checkmate for me and this forum. It will definitely be a relief to me to not have to imagine your smirking, privileged face anymore.

[Resolute]

You can't offer anything more substantial than a sneering suggestion to convince the anguished readers that my relationships were all doomed from the beginning because of the twisted naivete of the mentally ill in their pursuit of relationships, that these romances might even have only been the psychotic delusions of a severely disturbed recluse brought on by an unhealthy fascination with a stolen cover of Playboy magazine and smoking dried rose petals in a homemade bong? :lol:

klingsor,i certainly believe your version of what transpired between you and those women,and i think others do too,maybe even roger.

[Resolute]

Come to think about it, I suppose it might seem a little odd that a woman would end a relationship over his penis size - pretty much the most devastating thing that a woman could do to a man - but then (as he claims) try to continue "such a good relationship"...

come on roger,it's not really that odd at all.i even remember other members on the forum with similar stories,with some variations of course.

and he never said she tried to continue "a good relationship",just that she wanted to give it another go.

in short,although there's no question he's damaged and broken -and who knows,after what he's been through,maybe he has every right to be broken- i 'm convinced that his retelling of what took place is more or less true.

[Resolute]

Let me say again: I am not definitely saying that I don't believe him. I am saying that I find it "odd". But I know well enough that something can be odd and yet still true. Heaven knows.

you know why i don't find it odd?

because people have been doing stupid and selfish things for thousands of years and then regretting it -after things don't go the way they expected- and trying to go back to what they had given up.

in some of the cases,they do actually change and learn their lesson.in others,they just want to hold on to something till something better (in their own mind) comes along again,and the cycle continues,and they never learn.

the girl in question in klingsor's case is no different,she wanted "more",and probably realized she had made a mistake,and tried to fix it,but not surprisingly,his dignity wouldn't allow him to take her back,specially considering the sensitivity of the issue.

[Guest Klingsor]

Certainly I would say that an assessment of the size of a penis (or indeed of anything) made purely on the basis of judgement rather than actual measurement it is liable to be inaccurate to at least some degree. I wouldn't have thought that this is controversial, surely?

I suspect that what sometimes happens is that young women see an erect penis which is (let's say) 6.75" and then go around telling their friends that it was "huge!" or "enormous!" or "about 8 inches", etc. (Statistically a penis is very much more likely to be 6.75" than 8".)

Okay. I'm relieved to hear that. (To be fair, though, you have on at least one occasion posted violent homosexual fantasies involving men with big penises...so one could be forgiven for being a little apprehensive, no?)

How can I possibly know what his erect penis is like?

What I was referring to is glimpses of him flaccid while he was changing - he was significantly bigger than most dudes is all I can say. But then, maybe he is a "shower". Who knows?

If you pushed me, I would estimate that he's roughly double my flaccid size (and I'm a "grower" who is anywhere between 2" and 2.75" flaccid, depending on mood, temperature, etc.) But if he were actually measured, heck, maybe he would turn out to be smaller than he seems visually? (And this uncertainty is, I guess, exactly my point.)

(Perhaps there is even some element of truth to the part about "intellectual entitlement". I don't know.)

Sure, in the absence of any firm evidence to the contrary I would always assume that our friend is telling the simple truth - why wouldn't I?

It is kind of interesting that he comes out with the line:

"...these romances might even have only been the psychotic delusions of a severely disturbed recluse brought on by an unhealthy fascination with a stolen cover of Playboy magazine..."

Nobody has - of course - ever suggested anything of the kind. So why throw it in? Where does that idea come from, I wonder?

Come to think about it, I suppose it might seem a little odd that a woman would end a relationship over his penis size - pretty much the most devastating thing that a woman could do to a man - but then (as he claims) try to continue "such a good relationship"...

But I am still not saying that I don't believe it. I'm sure such things have been known under the sun. The world is, after all, a funny old place.

One thing is for sure, he is someone with some serious issues. I can only wish him well.

Yes, that's a very plausible possibility.

I guess, I have probably formed a bias against him - if I am going to be completely honest. I came here with the sincere desire to try and help folks, and I really don't appreciate being subjected to weird invective by a complete stranger.

[Jessie]

Roger- in the same way that I didnt want Kingslor to leave- nor do I wish you to leave.

Please dont deactivate your account nor delete posts nor stay away.

I have agreed with some of your posts and disagreed with other ones- which is the norm.

I can see what small or Kingslor mean to some degree but I think you have have tried to be helpful and are reasonable and sincere.

ps by the way my ex therapist (who specialises with urology issues) said the same thing- she thought perhaps my rejections were based on other things- but when she heard the fine detail she accepted my size was the issue- but its true that SOMETIMES people misdiagnose the reasons for relationships to fail.

[Jessie]

Small/Kingslor,

I do get what you mean- all my life I have read placatory stuff from agony aunts e.g. "women love the man the penis is attached to etc"

They always forget the toxic caveat "unless you are too small" which alas applies to me- Im the smallest of the 3 of us.

So hearing advice from a guy who is maybe slightly shorter than average but with average girth will sting a little - though do remember he's not fully average and not big by any means,… (sorry Roger!- though I know that doesnt bug you)

You both mention personal experience trumping stats which is a fair point but isn't that what Roger is providing too?

He's never been rejected over size and has NEVER in his life heard a girl talk derisively about size nor leave a guy over size.

If thats his experience then thats fair enough- if he had a different experience I'm sure he would say so.

It may seem implausible to you or I but I guess but I dont think he is fibbing- nor do I think either of you are- (your experiences are very similar to mine)

[Resolute]

What size are you?

since i've read most of jessie's posts thoroughly,i can answer that for you,i'm sure he won't mind.

he's 4" long bone pressed,and 4" in girth.

[Resolute]

Are you sure it's bone pressed? I wonder what the nbp would be?

i'm pretty certain,he's a firm believer in bone pressed measurements over nbp.

[Jessie]

resolute you are quite right- I haven't measured myself in quite a while (there was a time I used to do it obsessively and be thrown into renewed depression)

I recall my own dimensions changing on how erect I was, how hard I pressed into the fat pad, whether I used a ruler or tape etc.

I guess Im about 3.6 length non bone pressed (NBP) and the tiniest fraction over 4in girth..

The worst reaction I ever got was from my 2nd GF who registered genuine shock when she saw it,

The worst phrases about my size Im aware of- which I am not going to repeat here (its important for me to block them out)- are the comments in a diary of one of my later GFs (who claimed she didnt mind my size)

Due to my size its possible that I kinda have no right to be here- after all, the forum is SPS- I havent got SPS- I simply have SP.

But I know other small guys are here so what the heck eh?…

[Resolute]

resolute you are quite right- I haven't measured myself in quite a while (there was a time I used to do it obsessively and be thrown into renewed depression)

I recall my own dimensions changing on how erect I was, how hard I pressed into the fat pad, whether I used a ruler or tape etc.

I guess Im about 3.6 length non bone pressed (NBP) and the tiniest fraction over 4in girth..

The worst reaction I ever got was from my 2nd GF who registered genuine shock when she saw it,

The worst phrases about my size Im aware of- which I am not going to repeat here (its important for me to block them out)- are the comments in a diary of one of my later GFs (who claimed she didnt mind my size)

Due to my size its possible that I kinda have no right to be here- after all, the forum is SPS- I havent got SPS- I simply have SP.

But I know other small guys are here so what the heck eh?…

again,it pains me every time i read the stuff you guys heard/saw from others,specially women.

as to you having no right to be here,nonsense,it is a forum for sps,but i think everyone would agree that sp is worse than sps,so you have even more right than guys with sps to be here.

[Resolute]

What size are u if u don't mind me asking?

i guess you missed all those back and forths between klingsor and i,and now his posts are gone;but as i told him,i don't have a small penis or small penis syndrome,and though i don't mind you asking,you can see why stating my size (specially on this forum) wouldn't be a good idea.

[Resolute]

I think I once read a post by someone who took a psych class and wanted to satisfy his curiosity. Was that you?

no,but i don't remember such a post;are you sure it was on this forum?

[Resolute]

Yeah I'm sure. Skynight comes to mind but I'm not sure. Said he wasn't small but was curious.

i see.but i don't think it's skynight.

[Resolute]

Why are you here?

i don't just read or post on this particular forum,but the whole community,although mostly this one,because it's the most active and i am a man after all (and i've been through a lot of crap myself,including relationship stuff,and i haven't been with a woman in years) so i can definitely relate to many of the issues.

[Jessie]

from what I have heard from girls, girth is the more critical though I have heard girls say length is important too…

​2 studies showed 95% of women thought girth more important than length.

If the average is 5inchs 'around' and its a critical issue then I guess below 5 is undesirable.

The range you quote is about right- anything under 4.7 is lower than normal/medium range and is likely to be problematic for both partners.

Very unfortunate…

[Jessie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSkPkMAme4I

… todays modern women….

"pray my son is at least average"