At the risk of annoying people...woman here!

[Resolute]

Because women have been given equality but want none of the responsibility that men have to endure. And in society, women are encouraged to shun any responsibility. If a woman cheats, it's the man's fault for not satisfying her needs or not showing enough affection and many men even convince themselves this is true. If she leaves him because he lost his job. It's his fault for not supporting her, it's not her fault. How often do you ever hear or read of a woman take responsibility for a relationship breaking apart? It never happens. The man always did something wrong.

Men are being taught to be more feminine and woman are being taught to be more masculine. This is why you have so many men chasing women and needing validation from them.

what pisses me off is the woman getting the money and custody of kids after divorce,even when she's the one instigating the divorce.

so she can cheat,and if her hubby doesn't like it,she divorces him and,takes his money,his dignity,and the kids.he gets to pay her alimony till he dies,if he's lucky.

what kind of equality is that? or justice? or fairness?

[Victimorthecrime]

Agree w a lot of the recent comments here and would add did you ever notice that anytime you hear about a "single mom" there is always an implication that it is a mans fault somewhere?

Women are never held accountable, they are always seen as having had something bad happen to them. Plenty of women choose single motherhood because of the $$ that comes their way from government.

[Resolute]

Agree w a lot of the recent comments here and would add did you ever notice that anytime you hear about a "single mom" there is always an implication that it is a mans fault somewhere?

Women are never held accountable, they are always seen as having had something bad happen to them. Plenty of women choose single motherhood because of the $$ that comes their way from government.

and from poor hubby,or ex-hubby.

[Wutty3]

Next on "The Jerry Springer Show" Meet Quandieshia. She's been on the show 13 times trying to find out "who da baby daddy is." (For you international members outside the USA, Jerry Springer is a TV chat show host here in the States. The show will rot your brain LOL.)

[Sessy]

Oh deary me. This has kinda descended into a lets hate on women thread? Exactly what I was hoping wouldn't happen.

There are two sides to every story so here we go;

-it takes two to make a baby. So while I'm not saying the woman is right (on jerry springer shows etc) how is the man not also wrong?

- I'm hearing all this stuff about equality yet a lot of women are still not paid equally in the work place. They are less likely to be promoted and less likely to be in the big earning jobs.

- also women DO contend with a lot of objectification. A lot of men seem to think it's okay to stare, leer, make comments, even touch your bum or other parts of your body, because you're a woman. I would say it makes women feel like a piece of meat but your butcher sure as hell wouldn't let you paw their meat beforehand!

- women who are raped often get blamed by society. Shouldn't have been drunk, shouldn't have walked home that way in the dark, etc etc. how is that fair? I should be able to go out naked, at 1am, drunk as a skunk, and nobody touch me if I don't want them to.

-I have been in positions where men have used their size and aggression to intimidate me. Again, not fair.

I could go on and on. I think both sexes get raw deals about different things. I'd imagine it more than balances out, I think it's still probably more difficult being a woman, but you guys won't get that because you can't experience some of the things we do.

It's sad to see this post has became very sexist. I know some of you are hurting but as I say, two sides to every story.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Sessy]

Klingsor I will try my best to answer that but the last paragraph confused me somewhat.

1) you may be right. I have no idea. As far as I was and still am aware, it was nothing to do with the size of their penises. However, they didn't really talk to me about it, and obviously I wasn't going to bring it up, so who knows?

2) well I maybe didn't phrase that well. Usually a man cannot bring me to orgasm during sex, because actually, it's quite hard to do. Despite what the media etc say, it's difficult to do, some women can't etc etc. my fiancé can which I think is partly to do with the next point about connection. But the point I was making is, it doesn't go 'biggest penis, best sex' and work it's way down to 'smallest penis, worst sex.' It is more complex than that.

3) physical characteristics do of course play a part in attraction. But I was and am attracted to other physical aspects of men than their private parts, because for one they don't walk around with them out usually so you tend to be looking at other parts of them e.g. Nice eyes, good bum, whatever . So people I have had a good connection with and been attracted to, I was attracted to them before I got into bed with them! And maybe a lot of this is down to being a woman, but having an emotional connection with someone during sex is important. It makes the sex better. Emotions for women anyway are often a big part of sex. Again it is complicated and not easily summed up in a few sentences. All I can say is, men who I was a) attracted to physically (penis aside here as presuming I haven't seen it yet) and connect with in a personality sense, I have better sex with!

[Sessy]

* b )

[Resolute]

ok sessy,let's have a look at some of the points that you raised in your post,shall we?

of course this is just a friendly discussion,no hostility etc intended.

Oh deary me. This has kinda descended into a lets hate on women thread? Exactly what I was hoping wouldn't happen.

There are two sides to every story so here we go;

1-it takes two to make a baby. So while I'm not saying the woman is right (on jerry springer shows etc) how is the man not also wrong?

2-I'm hearing all this stuff about equality yet a lot of women are still not paid equally in the work place. They are less likely to be promoted and less likely to be in the big earning jobs.

3- also women DO contend with a lot of objectification. A lot of men seem to think it's okay to stare, leer, make comments, even touch your bum or other parts of your body, because you're a woman. I would say it makes women feel like a piece of meat but your butcher sure as hell wouldn't let you paw their meat beforehand!

4- women who are raped often get blamed by society. Shouldn't have been drunk, shouldn't have walked home that way in the dark, etc etc. how is that fair? I should be able to go out naked, at 1am, drunk as a skunk, and nobody touch me if I don't want them to.

5-I have been in positions where men have used their size and aggression to intimidate me. Again, not fair.

I could go on and on. I think both sexes get raw deals about different things. I'd imagine it more than balances out,6- I think it's still probably more difficult being a woman, but you guys won't get that because you can't experience some of the things we do.

It's sad to see this post has became very sexist. I know some of you are hurting but as I say, two sides to every story.

1-the man is wrong also,but the problem is in such cases,is that there is no man,but rather many,many men.so mathematically,10 guys would share 50% of the blame (that's if i even accept that the man is equally responsible),and 1 woman 50%.

2-i'm not really that experienced in those matters,but maybe,they just can't cut it at the "big earning jobs".

3-it's not ok to touch anyone sexually without consent,unless you're married to that person etc.

as for the staring etc,although it's not commended,women have to take some responsibility as well and not appear too sexy,and so on.

4-no one should touch you,true,but if they do,you're partially responsible if you're out at 1:00 am naked and drunk as a skunk.

5-i agree,not fair.

6-i disagree,in this day and age,it's no fun being a man,but also you won't get it,because you can't experience some of the crap guys go through.

[Sessy]

1) Well the man has to be equally responsible because he also had sex? And yes in some of these cases the woman has slept with multiple men and doesn't know. But there's plenty of men who sleep with multiple women, possibly making children along the way, and don't know/don't care? Equality?

2) no reason a woman couldn't cut it at these jobs.

3) I am going to assume that you are joking here.

4) I am going to assume that you are joking here.

5) well at least we agree that aggression isn't allowed!

6) I think we will have to agree to disagree here as judging by your above comments, you are not able to see the world from a female perspective.

[Resolute]

1) Well the man has to be equally responsible because he also had sex? And yes in some of these cases the woman has slept with multiple men and doesn't know. But there's plenty of men who sleep with multiple women, possibly making children along the way, and don't know/don't care? Equality?

2) no reason a woman couldn't cut it at these jobs.

3) I am going to assume that you are joking here.

4) I am going to assume that you are joking here.

5) well at least we agree that aggression isn't allowed!

6) I think we will have to agree to disagree here as judging by your above comments, you are not able to see the world from a female perspective.

3 & 4,not joking.

6-well,maybe it's because i'm a man? possibly?

again,no hostility intended.

and it's nice having a female perspective around here.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Sessy]

Well, resolute, thank you for that

And to 6) yes, possibly, but that was my reasoning for outlining the points. Women's behaviour is still shaped by how some men/society/media chose to behave and to portray us.

As for 3) women have to not appear too sexy? And why the hell not? Then the next thing would be oh women are all ugly and not looking after themselves etc. can't win! But that aside, human beings should be allowed to dress and behave (excluding hurting others etc obviously) how they wish without fear of feeling labelled, stared at etc. it's not a nice feeling at all.

4) again, can't get my head around this. If a naked drunk man was walking around and I went up to him and touched him, is that okay? What if he was married and didn't appreciate it? Does it not matter purely because he got drunk and took his clothes off? I'd like to hope we are still in a society where people can get drunk and maybe be a bit daft without fear of sexual harassment. But then I know that for women this is not the case. What is truly awful is that women who are sexually abused are then made to feel as if it was their fault.

[Sessy]

Klingsor, the Christmas present analogy is good. I'm not going to lie and say that I don't believe that happens. I'm sure it does. But I think if you're a decent human being who really likes the person and is physically attracted to them already, you will give it a shot. Maybe you can work together to find what works sexually. Lots of relationships have to work through sexual issues where people may have different fetishes, sexual problems etc, but that doesn't make it impossible.

I get what you're saying also about the confidence thing. Women do like confidence no doubt. But not all women are confident and we don't all like the same thing. I have no doubt there will be women out there who don't go clubbing and would prefer a shy man because they are shy. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

No, my fiancé is my fiancé because he looks after me, makes me laugh, we share the same interests and values, and is a gentleman. Among other things. He makes me orgasm because of this connection. I'm not marrying him because he makes me orgasm. That would be ridiculous.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Resolute]

Well, resolute, thank you for that

And to 6) yes, possibly, but that was my reasoning for outlining the points. Women's behaviour is still shaped by how some men/society/media chose to behave and to portray us.

As for 3) women have to not appear too sexy? And why the hell not? Then the next thing would be oh women are all ugly and not looking after themselves etc. can't win! But that aside, human beings should be allowed to dress and behave (excluding hurting others etc obviously) how they wish without fear of feeling labelled, stared at etc. it's not a nice feeling at all.

4) again, can't get my head around this. If a naked drunk man was walking around and I went up to him and touched him, is that okay? What if he was married and didn't appreciate it? Does it not matter purely because he got drunk and took his clothes off? I'd like to hope we are still in a society where people can get drunk and maybe be a bit daft without fear of sexual harassment. But then I know that for women this is not the case. What is truly awful is that women who are sexually abused are then made to feel as if it was their fault.

3-everything a person (man or woman) does or says,will lead to them being labelled with something;sometimes a positive label,other times,not so much.so everyone must take some responsibility for their own actions,behavior,and statements.

4-well,if a person stayed home,or went out properly clothed,and sober etc,then chances of him/her being harassed or raped are significantly less,wouldn't you say?

[Sessy]

Well for one I could just marry myself! Lol!

Let's put it this way. If he made me orgasm but didn't look after me (we've been through some rough times together), didn't make me laugh, brought me down, didn't like the geeky things I like such as museums and board games, didn't want children, and generally treated me like crap, do you think I'd marry him?

I don't think I need answer that one.

[Sessy]

3) yes but there's a big difference between inwardly saying oh look at her she's so vain or whatever, and actually passing comment on her e.g. Nice tits, not nice tits etc. then you make someone feel uncomfortable so it's not the woman's fault any more.

4) yes they are but that's not the point. The responsibility lies with the prospective rapist not to rape, not with the prospective victim to not be a victim. Equally you could say if you didn't leave your house you'd never get stabbed/shot etc, but would that mean we should all stay indoors forever?

[Sessy]

And just to add, is there any guys out there who are going to back me up on points 3) and 4)? I can't/don't want to believe you all have this attitude about women.

[Wutty3]

I'm a simple man but isn't the point of "dressing sexy" by either gender to garner a few looks and stares? To get noticed?

[Sessy]

Of course Wutty. We all like an appreciative glance or a nice compliment. We don't like being stared at or sexual comments being made about us as if we are a pair of breasts on legs.

But these things are getting off topic. The point is, women shouldn't be blamed for the behaviour of men if they are out of order, regardless of how they dress, how much they drink etc. I assume when I go out adult males can restrain themselves, unfortunately a small minority prove that isn't the case. But when that happens, we should get behind the women and remember who are the victims.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Sessy]

I was being a bit tongue in cheek with that first comment, Klingsor

Yes I would still marry him. Why? Because I have experienced too many times the guys who treat you like crap, who may be very sexually arousing/satisfying. And who would make me utterly miserable. And since I want to marry only once and for life, that would sure as hell be a long time!

I agree with you though that lots of women do marry idiots. I'd like to hope that I have learnt from their mistakes?

I think you can be sexually frustrated, of course. I also think if you love someone and want that relationship you'd do whatever it takes to make it work. So for example you could work together to find a way to both be sexually satisfied. It might not be how you imagined it, but I'd sacrifice a helluva lot to have a great relationship with the person I want to be with.

[Guest Klingsor]

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[Resolute]

gatekeeper to sex,that's a good one sky.