Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 you know klingsor, at this point, i don't know if i'd be satisfied knowing "why" i have to go through all this crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Klingsor Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Klingsor feel free to monopolize all you want. I am not sure there is a why as to why some of us see ourselves permanently sidelined. For me anytime things start going well there will always be something that happens that ruins it. I am trying not to be negative but that is how I am feeling now. I'm am still going to try, haven't given up hope yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 there's always going to be a "why". now if you believe in divine design, then you'd know nothing happens for no good reason (wisdom). and if you don't believe in divine design, at least you've got to believe in cause and effect, which nothing in the universe is exempt from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Klingsor Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Klingsor Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Divine design? Lord what kind of Devine would have designed this? To me, asking why is like asking why does a fish swim. But listen man if you can analyze cause and effect to achieve a desired result then go for it. I sometimes think I can but then right back to the SOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I can absolutely identify with the bold statement. I'm almost 30 now, and really all I want at this point, all I truly want, is to be gainfully employed, pay my taxes, and be left the fuck alone. Ok, so I'm a loser, I get that. I can take pride and a certain dignity in the fact that I recognize this and am upholding my end of the bargain through making sure society functions by providing a way to differentiate the winners. Fine, I accept it. I enjoy the outdoors, books, animals, art, and music. All I ask is that I be granted access to those 5 things and left alone once my workday is done. I do not ask for philanthropical-sized wealth, political office, fame, fortune, or to be in anyone else's business. You were the one who introduce me to the phenomena of "going ghost", and that is most likely what I'll end up doing. Which is fine. I just hope the collectivist nightmare into which we seem to be increasingly entangled doesn't get any more unbearable than it already is. I've said it before - genocide through suicide. let's make a deal then, if you ever get philanthropical-zized wealth, fame, or fortune, just hand it to me, and in return i'll make sure you get those 6 things or even 7 (if you don't feel like working at all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Divine design? Lord what kind of Devine would have designed this? To me, asking why is like asking why does a fish swim.But listen man if you can analyze cause and effect to achieve a desired result then go for it. I sometimes think I can but then right back to the SOS. i didn't say i/we can analyze it. i meant it's there, and it's natural (and even our right) to wonder or question what caused what, in order for this shit or that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Klingsor Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I will have to say I agree with Resolute on this. I tend to believe in the existence of an "unmoved mover" to use Aristotle's expression. The question I ask is really this: why am I me and not somebody else? That's all envy really is. There has to be a reason because even with accidents, there is a chain of causal events that lead to the instance under scrutiny. Only perspective allows us to call it "accident". Eventually all these causes of all events should be able to be synthesized into one cosmic Reason. That is my thinking. So really I am looking for what the Hindu's call "Moksha", the instance when this Reason is comprehended, and by comprehension is surpassed. i liked this part klingsor, and i too do not believe in "accidents", "coincidences", "luck", etc. in the literal sense, though i might use those words for lack of better words, or lack of convincing explanation/argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I always like to know the "whys" as well. I think it helps me to understand myself better and that offers me some type of relief. It feels kind of like putting the pieces of my puzzle together. This is definitely something that can be worked with in therapy, though maybe best using a psychodynamic modality. I believe it's true that therapy is not for everyone, but I also don't think it has to necessarily be about fixing/curing to be effective, though that would depend on the individual's needs as well. It can be about learning to cope better, how to take care of oneself during difficult times, cultivating self-compassion and self-acceptance, and possibly too changing our perception about circumstances and how we respond to them...I don't necessarily believe in fate (I respect that some others do); I like to believe I have some control over my life.Self-confidence. I do honestly believe no one is perfectly confident all of the time, that all of us have self-doubts and insecurities, that this is part of being human...Can self-confidence be changed? I feel it can. It is something that has to be cultivated, I feel, and there can be bumps in the road and setbacks. My self-confidence is way better now in the past decade than it had been for the previous 35 years of my life, but it's still and may always be a vulnerable part of me. I do think inner dialogue with self can be very important. I have an inner critic that used to be very loud, but that inner voice is only loud now during times of stress. My self-encouraging voice seems to be louder these days, though I do still have my moments for sure. I don't know if any of this helps, but things can get better, they really can. Victimorthecrime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 ....I don't know if any of this helps, but things can get better, they really can. people must start realizing at some point that things not always "can" get better, and that there are many cases, instances and scenarios where they simply can't and won't get better. this isn't a film or fairy-tale where there's always a happy ending. i also have issue with this section:I don't necessarily believe in fate (I respect that some others do); I like to believe I have some control over my life. of course we have "some" control over our lives, the problem is the amount of control is dreadfully insufficient for some of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) I do tend to be a hopeful person, perhaps somewhat of an idealist, but that is not ever meant to deny anyone's feelings or personal experience.I'm not talking about fairy tales, though, just the potential to find peace and possibly some growth. My hope is that those of you who are hurting have an open door to the possibility for healing, but I respect too if you don't at this time.I do hear you about control.What helps, resolute? I can listen. Edited January 29, 2015 by IrmaJean typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 i hope my post didn't come out as too critical or in too much disagreement, i just have more of an analytical mind (logical and realistic, i.e based on facts and experiences) than an idealistic, optimistic, pessimistic, or emotional one.I'm not talking about fairy tales, though, just the potential to find peace and possibly some growth. My hope is that those of you who are hurting have an open door to the possibility for healing, but I respect too if you don't at this time.I do hear you about control.What helps, resolute? I can listen. you know, maybe i'm just too immature, but i really can't take much more "growth". i've grown all i can, and more. i've grown three millennia in just three decades, so i'm good for a few thousand years, even if i don't grow any more at all. this helps; the talking, debating, discussing, etc., i enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 You weren't harsh. I'm just a tad sensitive at times and I worry about hurting people...Ever take the Jung Meyers Briggs personality test? I don't know how accurate these type of tests actually are, but this particular one seems to be dead on for everyone in my family. I test as an INFJ, but anyway, I do have an analytic side, but my feelings are definitely way more prominent. So it helps to know you are more of a rational type of person. My h is rational and logical, too, we are opposites in so many ways. I think differences can offer balance.Enough with growth then? Okay. Fair enough.Debating helps? My son enjoys that too.I hope today is okay for you, resolute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I get where you are coming from about growth resolute. I am weary of "truths", however well intentioned. Perhaps in the final analysis everyone must find their own truth even if that means rejecting all truth, all wisdom, all advice. For me it's about just fighting the good fight, doing my best, even if little comes of it I don't want to look back w regret and say "I should have tried..."And on that note I head out to a job that I increasingly hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 @ irmajean, thanks, i hope your day is good too.i've read about persnality tests a little, and i'm not too confident with their reliability/accuracy. i think i've even tried one or two of the online ones, but wasn't impressed.yes, less growing, and more debating .@ victim, i totally agree with you on not looking back and saying "i should've this", "i should've that", or "if only i'd done this" and so on. that's why over 90% of my regrets are, and will be, for things not in my control. in other words, i'll always know i couldn't have done anything (by "anything" i mean less the 7-8% mistakes and bad choices that i've made, since i'm not infallible and am entitled to do some wrong things here and there.) more to achieve happiness or fulfillment. my conscience is clear, which is about the only comforting thing i have in my life... conscience clarity: above 90%, everything else in my life: crap. Victimorthecrime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Klingsor Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malign Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 The difficult thing about "why" is that you can believe in it all you want, but you'll never know what it is. Not just because it's hard to know, but because it may be impossible, because it involves everything else in the universe. With or without a god as the cause, individual humans probably aren't "big" enough, mentally or spiritually, to really comprehend "why" in all its complexity.That's why I favor the philosophy called Pragmatism, which is basically, go with what works.As for "can't", maybe that too is out of our hands. You can stop trying, in which case you're right, you won't be able to <do whatever>, or you can keep trying and maybe still not be able to do. It's a choice; one that only the individual can make. At least the second choice leaves open the possibility that you might be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 The difficult thing about "why" is that you can believe in it all you want, but you'll never know what it is. Not just because it's hard to know, but because it may be impossible, because it involves everything else in the universe. With or without a god as the cause, individual humans probably aren't "big" enough, mentally or spiritually, to really comprehend "why" in all its complexity.That's why I favor the philosophy called Pragmatism, which is basically, go with what works.As for "can't", maybe that too is out of our hands. You can stop trying, in which case you're right, you won't be able to <do whatever>, or you can keep trying and maybe still not be able to do. It's a choice; one that only the individual can make. At least the second choice leaves open the possibility that you might be able to.the second option "leaves open the possibility that you might be able to" only if it's within certain limits. if you have a reasonably good grasp of how the world works, and more importantly, how your own life works, and has worked in the past, you develop a certain ability to gauge things more accurately and realistically, including what "can" and "can't" be achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted January 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Corporate bullshit? I know the feeling only too well...Yes exactly. It's beyond ridiculous. Not a lot of options at the moment but I'm working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Klingsor Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 . Victimorthecrime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 @skynight, aren't getting a little carried away with this society/media conditioning theory?do you really think that consumerism is the main reason for (or the root cause of) low self-esteem, unconfidence, , depression, competition, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think your connotation of the word "confident" and mine might differ slightly, skynight, but your post does have me thinking. I have always felt my doubts come from deep within myself and have nothing to do with others' possible opinions of me, but it's true that things are often complex and maybe this does play a role? Hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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