PatPaul

Hi, I have written before about this subject so I apologize beforehand for rehashing already discussed material. I was fired from my last job due to depression. I know it was due to the illness byt when I look back now over two years ago to the winter of 2007/8, I cannot remember experiencing a lot of the warning signs. What continues to puzzle me is that I was on meds (Paxil-40mg), seeing a therapist once a week and not drinking. I can recall having trouble concentrating and withdrawing socially...Can anyone share their experiences with depression and work, and how it led to their dismissal or taking sick leave PP

Hi Everyone, I am not sure if I am posting this question in the right category? My parents split up when I was 18, in my last year of high school. My oldest brother was in his last year of university and soon to leave the nest for good, my 2nd oldest brother was in 2nd or 3rd year university, and my younger sister and brother were in grades 9 and 11 respectively. I have asked my younger and second older brother 3what their memories are of that period and neither seem to recall much. I on the other hand found it very very stressful and painful since it threw my last year of high school into a tailspin. I heard a podcast the other day which featured kids whose parents divorced, now as adults, talking about how divorce affected them. I usually read or assume divorce is more traumatic on young kids, but for me at 18, it really messed me up, and has continued to mess me up into adult life-trust issue, relationship, neediness, dependency etc. I don't buy what my sibling claim since my oldest brother divorced and remarried his first wife, my second brother divorced after 6 months, and my younger sibling have never been married and they are both in the 40's. I am married(7 years) with two kids, and I sometime believe I have transcended or escaped my past, but other times I don't... PP

Hi Cheylissa, JulianP, and jessicajane1925, Thanks for replying to my questions so quickly. I have been doing a lot of personal introspection over the past year trying to sort things out...Indeed I have had a checkered past(employment, academic etc). I am still struggling with my drinking problem and have been working the AA program to the best of my ability. I wondered if some of the anxiety attacks and panic disorder I suffered over the years was because of getting fired from one stressful job and jumping from the frying pan into another fire so quickly (i.e. moving from one job in the Middle East to another without a chance to decompress). I don't want to make it sound like my stress could be compared to what a soldier in Iraq would experience or a rape victim, but as an alcholic and a child of alcholic parents I am searching for causes and more importantly, answer; if they do exist? My panic attacks in the classroom could be severe, especially when I was being observed by my supervisor. The way I dealt with the chronic nature of this illness was drinking. My depression really affected my ability to remember and concentrate on things...Before my first child was born in February 2007 I was having bad anxiety as a new to be dad. PP

Hi Everyone, I would like to know if anyone out there has experienced PTSD? I have read how veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are suffering from it, and I assume people who have experienced severe trauma like rape, murder of someone close etc. could also be susceptible. I have never experienced such aforementioned trauma, but I would like to know if job loss could lead to PTSD? I have had a string of painful, short-term jobs which involved very strressful job losses and then relocation and beginning a new job: Japan one year-drank myself out of a job. Saudi Arabia (only lasted 3 monthsbefore I was fired, but was relieved to get out of SA) Middle East 5 years-two jobs; one for 3 years and the other for two. Both I had trouble with anxiety and stress. I was fired from the last one. Can job loss (getting fired) and being thrown into a new job cause PTSD? PP

Hi, I live in Japan and in this rural area there is only one psychiatrist who can speak a little English. Up until now we just meet to get my prescription for anti-depressants refilled, but I told him last session I would like to try weekly therapy sessions. My Japanese is OK, his English is Ok, so how can we proceed? I know we will go slow and both need to be patient. Any suggestions about how I can be proactive and cooperative in the process so not all the pressure is on him? PP

Hi, Yes, I had crushes on girls in elementary and high school. My dreams (sexual) always involve women. My marriage is going Ok. Biggest problem is communication (my wife is a non-native speaker of English). We did have a few rough years with lack of sexual intimacy since the anti-depressants I took (Paxil) affected my libido. My doctor prescrived some other medication which had less sexual dysfunction side-effects. We were able to conceive two healthy kids which is wonderful. I resumed taking Paxil after our 2nd child was born since where I live there are not many other anti-depressants meds availalble other than Paxil

Hi, I am a 48 year hetrosexual male, married for 7 years with two kids. I never had a girlfriend in high school. Never had ANY kind of sexual interaction with a girl during that time (even innocent kissing). The first tome I necked with a girl was my first year of university when I was 20 years old. After that I had a few girlfriends. Not sure of where I stand sexually. I am attracted to women. One reason I have thought why I never had a high school girlgriend was because I was embarrassed/ashamed to bring anyone home since my parents were both alcoholics and the place was a mess. I guess friends wondered about me during those five years of high school. "is so and so gay?" they must of asked themselves since I never had a girlfriend like all the other guys had. I did like one girl, but was so chicken or lacked the courage to ask her out, she got tired of waiting for a year and began to date someone else. I am now not sure of my sexual orientation. I seem to always look at the back side of me. I do seem to appreciate a man who is well built, or perhaps i am sizing him up against me to see who has the better body. One reason for the lack of libido I have experienced the past 10 years is the anti-depressant meds I am taking. I am not sure if I am gay. I have never tried to explore this question. There have been several times in my life when both men and women said that when they first met me they thought I was gay.. PP

Hi David, Thanks for all the really great advice and help. I am going to try some of the things you recommended. To answer your questions: 1) Knowing what you know now, and a full time job was offered to you today, what would you differently this time around. Can you be real specific? Well I would try to find as much support and help like therapy, AA or any other 12-Step Program, try to focus more on the job, even if I find a lot of the stuff mundane or trivial, try not to hold grudge, but seek out those people I have an issue with to talk and clear the air, try to be more socialble since in the last few months on the job I became more withdrawn and aloof, try to ask others for support but in a very very discrete manner since I too often tell others (colleagues and supervisors) more than I should-I have often been accused of being too honest (i.e. like telling several supervisors on my last job how I could not manage the class, how I lacked assertiveness, how I felt I had lost control of the class and they no longer listened to me or respected me as a teacher...). I would try to not take my work home with me and not obsess about the things I cannot change, like the opinion others have of me, or the lies that several supervisors had accused me that I took so personally, try not to take criticism too personally, try to avoid poisonous friendships and environments at work that eat away at my morale.... OK... now, let's turn this around a bit. Tell not what you wouldn't do, but what you would do differently. But this time, write it down on a piece of paper and turn it into a self contract. In my next job, I will do the following to be a top performer: a) c) d) etc. Once you've completed this, begin reading heavily in to hone your skills. Secondly... what you commit to can be applied today, in your current job. So you can start practicing your new skills immediately. 2) Are you getting interviews? Are you hustling 20-25 hours per week looking for work? Well I live here in a very rural area of Japan. I am not sure if you're American David (yes and no... live here but while others left their heart in San Francisco, I left mine in Latin America) , but if you are, where I am is akin to where I lived an went to school in northern Maine (a town by the name of Presque Isle. Very beautiful, but not much in the way of job opportunities. I am an EFL teacher and the job market is kind of saturated with many foreigners. Can you create a niche market? Think hard! I moved to Pittsburgh PA and worked for years until I figured out that there was an unspoken mneed others weren't aware of and began opening up a small practice in this small area. Now there are many who do it; however, as the old-timer in the business, I usually get the best contracts if I hustle some. So you may have to invent the un-inventable. Who would ever have imagined the internet 20 years ago, the Ipod???I am not really eligible for any other kind of work since I am not fluent. So, no, I am not getting many interviews. I just found out from my wife yesterday that the college where I teach 4 hours a week was unsuccessful in getting a grant from the government which would have enabled them to offer me full-time work. Therefore, until next spring, which is the hiring season in Japan, I can safely assume I will be working at the current level of 8 hours per week( 3 part-time jobs). There is not enough work here or opportunities to justify spending 20-25 hours/week in a job search. I am dilligent about keeping abreast of the job boards, internet. One big stumbling block I have faced for almost 10 years is the lack of published work, which I requisite for securing a teaching job at the post-secondary level. I have had a terrible sense of insecurity and inferiority about my writing ability, and have been stuck for so long. So the only thing the 20-25 hours/week I could devote to, which is job related, would be to try and write. Damn the 1945 rusted, broken down, beat up old Chevy... what a terrible weight that must be to lug around!!!! Make a plan, starting tomorrow you sit in front of your computer and you start writing. Writing nonsense beats writing nothing-- do this for 2 hours then move it up to 3 next week, then 4 the following. Become acclimated to the idea and muscle thru the insecurities that plague you. I'm sorry this sounds like the Arnold Shwarzeneggar approach of making money and surviving, but it's what got me thru the US as a non-English speaker! Buene exito chico (good luck) david

Hi David, Thanks for replying to my posts. You asked a couple of difficult question, but I will do my best to answer them. I do feel both guilt and shame. I would have to say that relying on my gut instincts, I feel both guilt and shame about equally. The feeling of not being mature enough or responsible enough to hold down the part-time job at the grocery store makes me feel guilty. I am angry at my parents for not helping me out or caring about my university studies, but just recently I have developed a sense of guilt that "maybe it was my fault, I could have kept the job, worked throughout high school, saved a lot of money, and completed my post-secondary studies without any problems." The problems being taking so long to complete my first degree and incurring so many student loans. I feel shame and embarassment about the home I was brought up in. It was a pig stye. I never felt comfortable inviting guys to my house, and NEVER invited a girl home. I was too ashamed to tell a girl I liked in high school that I had a sister, and she only discovered I had one when she called my house and a female voice answered the phone. I feel ashamed that I never dated had a girlfriend in high school. It was only until I was 20 years old, a freshman in university, that I actually kissed a girl. I am guilty about the jobs I have been fired from. 3- of them have been teaching jobs. I feel both guilt and anger. The last job which I got fired from has caused me a lot of guilt since I feel I let my wife and family down, and the anger, which I could not direct towards my former employer/supervisors, is directed inward, which leads to depression. I feel shame and guilt here in Japan as a male who is unable to get full-time work and support his family. I feel both guilt and shame about my crazy work and academic history. My wife is Japanese. I love her. I don't think we really talk that much about personal things that bother me, though I do often vent my frustrations at her about my lack of success in finding a job and learning the language. The shame is certainly related to parents' alcoholism (the aforementioned stuff), but I feel this emotion about my own problems with the addiction. Yes, David I agree with you that securing full-time work would go a long way to helping me feel better about myselg. Unfortunately, I seem to dwell on the past jobs I was fired from, blaming myself, looking back at the long stretches of unemployment I have had, and resenting others who have had successful teaching careers...The shame rears its ugly head in job interviews, where it has on two occassions, been pointed out by the interviwer how messy my resume is with all the employment gaps, poor academic record etc. I find it difficult to look coworkers, supervisors in the eye when I discuss my work history , qualifications and so on. P

Hi JulianP, Thank you for the prompt reply to my post. Thanks for showing your concern. To ansswer your questions, well I am marriedd, 2 kids. I am underemployed, work about 7 hours a week. Been like this for about 7 months. Was fired from my last full-time job in March 2008. I get along well with my Japanese in-laws (my wife is Japanese and we live in Japan). We also live next door to my wife's family. I am pretty much estranged from my biological family. My dad knows about my wife and 2 kids, as well as 1 brother. Tne other 2 brothers and sister I don't think would care to know one way or another... My drinking problem developed when I was in my early 30's. I did drink during university, but it was always for fun-I enjoyed it. Unlike when I began to drink in Japan to medicate myself, bad idea since it only made my depression and anxiety worse. The part-time job I wrote about was when I was in high school, about 15 years of age. I grew up in an alcoholic family. Dad was an alcoholic but it did not seem to affect him adversely as a high school teacher. Mom drank and was a secretary in the government. Her life kind of came unravelled after she left my dad. A few years later she was fired, which sent her further into a deep depression. She died at 56, heart attack, but it was really from too much drinking

Hi Everyone, I have posted on this site several times in the past. I am an alcoholic with about 3-4 weeks of sobriety. Grew up in an alcoholic home. When I was in grade 10, about 15 years old, my father got me a job at a local grocery store as a stock boy. It was a great job since the pay was good. My dad stuck his neck out for me by asking the manager for the job. I worked at it for a while but then began to call in sick and come up with other false excuses for being unable to show up for my shift. The truth was I wanted to be with my friends out drinking on a Friday or Saturday night instead of out in a parking lot putting groceries into customers' cars. I admit that I dropped the ball. I was so immature and irresponsible. Two guys I know from my high school worked at the same job for years and did well since there were often pay increases. I have written extensively on this site about the anger and resentment I hold towards my parents for not helping me with my university education. I will never know if I would have been able to save enough money for tuition, housing etc. if I had continued with the job until I graduted from high school. I feel guilty since I know of so many other people who DID suck it up and do the job, whatever it might have been to earn money for their future university studies. My two older brothers never worked during high school and had no problems paying for their university education since they were both able to live at home during the school year and in the summer while doing summer work....I feel so terrible about my lack of maturity. I had the same trouble in university; unable to hold down a part-time job to try and help pay for my tuition, rent... since I was in a difficult program (difficult for me), Commerce, and just could not balance my life-work and school, like so many other students did. I ended up dropping out of university because of financial difficulties on three different occassions, and remember a friend telling me that "working part-time and going to school full-time is not that difficult..." I felt resentful because he was so gifted ( he later won a Rhodes Scholarship), and I did not have the confidence or belief in myself that I could pass my courses while working.... PatPaul

HI Everyone, I am a teacher who has suffered from depression for 10+ years. I have posted before on this forum and found the advice I received very helpful. I now would like to find out what other fellow teachers who suffer from mood disorders cope on the job. I have very limited experience teaching in Canada since I am an ECL instructor, so most of my jobs have been overseas. I did have one terribly negative and painful experience during my 15-week teaching practicum for my elementary teaching degree. I began the practicum in January of 1997 in London, Ontario. I was dragging my feet to the school and by the afternoon felt like someone had hit me with a baseball bat. My supervising teacher complained to the principal of the school about my "poor attitude, lack of enthusiasm, commitment..." and they terminated the contract. One week later I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and depression. The latter illness I had suspected for a month or two, but the former no idea. I had been abusing alcohol for years, which did not help matters. I appealed the decision to the teachers college but they took the side of the school. In Asia I have been fired from 4 jobs. The first time in 1995. In this case I knew I was completely burned out since I was wearing headphones in the class, listening to music and tuning out from the class (high school). I was drinking a lot over the previous 3 years and had been experiencing panic attacks which were getting worse and worse. I would carry a small bottle of alcohol in my briefcase just in case I had an attack so I could run into the bathroom to chug it down and calm my nerves- I did this only once at school, but had made it a regular habit to always have booze on me, even when on my mountain bike when out cycling! The second time was 2000. In Asia. Drinking a lot. I was unable to continue with my anti-depressants since I had been unemployed for a long time in Vancouver previous to this job, and could not afford the meds. The way I coped with the stress, anxiety etc. was alcohol. I had been off the Paxil for almost 6-8 months so I am not sure if I suffered from quick withdrawal, which I have read is not recommended. The third time was in the Middle East in 2002. This job lasted only three months. I had no anti-depressants and was unable to drink in this country where alcohol is banned. I really had a tough time there.... The fourth time, is the last full-time job I had. I was let go in March 2008. I was brought before the associate dean of the department and the human resources manager to talk about the "grave concerns they had about my teaching performance." I did my best to defend myself and then disclosed to them that I was, though the college's EAP, attending counseling with a psychologist and psychiatrist, on meds, and told them about my history of depression. I asked for unpaid compassionate leave but was refused and fired that day. It really was a blow. I am still trying to put back the pieces of my life together. I live in Asia with my wife and two kids and there is not much if any support for people with mood disorders. I can buy my meds here. Sometimes I read this forum and get the impression that there is more recognition amongst employers in Canada that depression is an illness like any other, and employees should not be discriminated against. I told a few people at work before I was let go about my illness. I am sure after I was fired that through the office grapevine everyone knows about my illness. What hurt a lot is that several other colleagues were granted compassion leave for various medical conditions, and the HR Manager was allowed to take time off for his battle with colon cancer. For the two years I worked at this job I was mostly sober. I did have a lot of stress in my life in addition to the job, but became a father in Feb. 2007. I could feel myself several months before I got fired withdrawing from people-I would choose to eat in my office alone instead of going to the staff cafeteria. I had pretty much given up on the students since I felt I had bent over backwards to accommodate their needs and I was still getting so little back. For example, the guys would never bring their book, notes, pencils etc. to class. so I made the arrangement where I keep all their textbooks & notebooks in my office, then I would lug the 20-25 books in a bag, having to make two trips, to each class to ensure they all had their stuff. I got very resentful about this after a week or two and then said to myself, "they are all adults, so if they cannot do it themselves, I cannot help them..." I could go on with other anecdotes, but I am sure most readers will draw the same conclusion those at the college did; that I am not a good teacher, or unfit for that level. One supervisor who sat in on one of my classes just before I was fired said I looked terribly nervous. I disclosed to her my history of panic attacks and she said I should change careers. Indeed I had problems with anxiety in the classroom before, but during that stressful time of my life I felt even more anxious. I teach only part-time now and I take anti-anxiety meds which seem to do the trick. I am still angry at my former employer since they made an allowance for one teacher with a drinking problem to take time off to enter rehab. Am I wrong or naive to expect that other teachers and supervisors should know something about mental illness in the workplace. I mean the college did have an EAP, so why have one if they can summarily terminate an employee without any kind of due process? PP

Hi Claire, Thanks. I took a look at the site you suggested. I need some time to figure out how best to use it. I will get back to you. Thanks

Hi Everyone, Again, thanks so much for all your advice and support. I am in need of some more advice. I live in Asia and there are no English speaking psychiatrists in my rural town. As I wrote before, I have been spending at least 1-2 hours/day these past 3-4 weeks journalling thoughts, feeling, emotions etc. and I have found it pretty helpful. The local AA meeting is small and no one speaks English so my involvement in the program id reading my little book of daily reflections, listening to AA speaker tape podcasts and reviewing the Big Book once in a while. What else is there I can do to try and heal and get healthy? I have been reading ACOA literature to try and explore any destructive behavioral patterns that led to getting fired from my last job, as well as several others over the past 20 years. Friends and members on this and other forums have recommended books I shoudl read. I guess I really feel in need of face to face, one-on-one counselling/therapy, which I have found so beneficial in the past. I am worried that all this journalling I am committing myself to only reinforces negative beliefs and reminds me of painful events in my past, but does little in the way of helping me look to the future. PP

Hi, I know I started this thread a while ago, but the painful emotions of the past still resonate with me. Why now? Well I have spent the past 3-4 weeks really devoting myself entirely to Journaling my past successes, failures, good memories and bad, not holding back anything. It has been painful to say the least. I do agree with the comments you all made; thanks. In addition to the issue of musical careers and inconsistent work history is my pathetic education background. To sum it all up, I did finish an undergraduate degree at a Canadian university, but it took me 9 years to do so. I attended 4 different universities, and changed programs, if I recall correctly, twice. I dropped out of the university I finally got my business degree from 3 times. I did not get any support from my parents. Actually they made it even more difficult me to get student loans since they were going through a divorce, and my father was reluctant to sign the financial details of the guardian section on the loan application for fear of my mother's lawyer getting a hold of it and sucking more $ out of him. I attended another university for an academic year. I worked in the graduate student pub and enjoyed the year, but passed only 2 classes out of the five I enrolled in September. I then moved to Toronto and signed up for classes for the sole purpose to get student loans to live off of. I know this was terribly irresponsible and I paid dearly for this lack of good judgement years later with so many incomplete/failures on my academic transcripts. In the last year of high school my parents split and my life became a mess. I ended up having to redo some courses the next year. I went away to a university and was the first person in my family to do so; my two older brother lived at home while attending the local universities. I did ok academically that first year and with a few guy on the same floor in the residence I stayed in, we agreed to share a house come next academic year. That was 1982, and that summer there was a bad recession in Ontario. I bounced around hitching car rides from town to town looking for work, and to get away from the crazy mother I was staying with for the summer. I ended up working about 3-4 weeks and had saved little money. A week before I was to move down to the town where school was I called one of the guys I was to live with. He asked me if I had actually made any money that summer and I said not a lot, but I would be eligible for student loans and bursaries. He basically said that he and the other guys did not want to be responsible for paying for my food, rent, clothing, and so I was no longer part of the living arrangement. I was devastated and had no idea what to do. A friend heard about some other guys who were looking for a roommate, and just a few days before classes were to commence went down to live with these guys I had never met before. They turned out to be great guys, but I never was able to pick myself up, brush myself off and move on. Just 8 weeks alter I dropped out. The feelings of confusion and going it on your own reminded me of the last year of high school when my parents split up, and they decided in their infinite dysfunctional wisdom that out of the 5 kids I should go live with my grandmother to "relive the stress at home." I never did actually go to live with her. In the car on the way to her house I wrestled the steering wheel away from my dad, pulled the car over, got out and ran away to a friend's family's house where I stayed for 2 weeks. My parents later decided for me to go live with my mom when she moved out, and I moved into her apartment on a memorable night-Christmas Eve! That last year of high school, Grade 13 I was so confused, had no one to talk to in order to try and deal with the shit. What bothered me most was my mother and father never had the guts to sit down in a family meeting and tell everyone about what they were planning. I was also so embarrassed when I would run into former classmates who looked at me as a total loser; they were moving on in their academic endeavors, graduating, and I was spinning my wheels...Many would make insensitive and cutting putdowns like "are you trying to attend every university in Ontario or something?" Years later when I finally did get my business degree in 1990 ( I began university in the fall of 1981), and graduate school in 1998, I would have my academic transcripts looked over my employers in job interviews who could not fathom what I was doing all those nomadic, directionless years of post-secondary life. Many potential employers in job interviews would comment how this inconsistent, disjointed work and academic history that was presented to them on paper indicated someone who is not loyal, who is unstable, and therefore not suitable for employment at their school-I'm a teacher. Many supportive friends remind me that I did, although it took so long, finish my degree, and I paid my own way (which is only partially true since I relied so heavily on student loans and incurred a huge debt after graduating). However, some of the most humiliating job interviews were when I tried to point this achievement out to the interviewer, who did not consider it an achievement (i.e. four universities over the course of nine years to obtain a four year Honors Bachelor of Business Administration). I still am haunted by the chaos and turbulence of my twenties. I don't think either of my alcoholic parents were even cognizant of my academic plight. Like my bouncing around from job to job and place of residence and city to city, the academic part of my past is very emotionally charged and I feel bad about it. Any input or advice or perspective about how to move on would be appreciated. PatPaul