ketamine

[poetdowns]

Can anyone tell me if Ketamine is actually used as a treatment somewhere?

I'm in the States, and the research seems very promising, so i'm wondering if some place else has already gotten there.

anon,

Poet

[silentmist]

I've read an article about this and the main benefit seems to be a more aggressive promotion of neural growth in the hippocampus after just a few days of taking it as opposed to several weeks for SSRI's ... a higher success rate too.

In the meantime, we could always try snogging a sedated horse and see if that makes us feel better ... don't know how the horse would feel about it though!

[paula]

Yeah, I've heard its used on horses to put them to sleep!

I've also heard that it's used in some illegal drugs like Ecstasy. Don't know how true this is? I've got some information of the net and posting for you to look through. Hope this helps?

ketamine

(Ketamine Hydrochloride Special K, K, Dorothy)

Also see: urban75 Ketamine info in the House Of Commons!

Ketamine is a short-acting general anaesthetic that has hallucinogenic and painkilling qualities that seem to affect people in very different ways.

First used as a recreational drug in 1965, ketamine - that's 2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)- cyclohexanone chemcial fans - most commonly comes as a powder, but can also be seen in liquid and tablet form.

Some people describe a speedy rush within a few minutes of sniffing the powder (20 minutes if taken as a pill, quicker if injected), leading to powerful hallucinations and even out of body experiences (the 'K Hole'), along with physical incapacitation.

If you're on a dancefloor, music can sound heavy, weird and strangely compelling, lights seem very intense and physical co-ordination can fall apart along with an overall feeling of numbness.

Some people feel paralysed by the drug, unable to speak without slurring, while others either feel sick or throw up.

Be extremely careful how much Ketamine you take - it's stronger than the same amount of speed or coke and the more you wolf down, the stronger the effects.

Accept that you may well be in for a rough ride with the drug as its effects are unpredictable and sometimes very confusing. Try not to mix it with other drugs, particularly alcohol.

Make sure you take it in a safe environment with friends who know what you're up to. Remember it's an anaesthetic, so if you hurt yourself you may not feel any pain. Like all drugs, it's best to be in good mental and physical health before taking anything.

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Side effects: Ketamine blocks nerve paths without depressing respiratory and circulatory functions, and therefore acts as a reliable anaesthetic. This may turn you into a gibbering, spaced out bore, mumbling and slurring away while your dancing may begin to resemble Bill and Ben on acid. Your movements may become as swift as a spliffed-up tortoise crawling across an extra-sticky big bun on a very hot day. You may be unable to move at all.

Health risks: No one knows what the long-term effects of taking ketamine regularly are. Because of its anaesthetic qualities, people have been known to hurt themselves and not realise until the following day. Ketamine should not be taken with respiratory depressants, primarily alcohol, barbiturates, or Valium and because of the uncertain interaction with other drugs, it is advised not to mix ketamine with anything. Large doses could induce unconsciousness which could lead to cardiovascular failure. Although not physically addictive, some users have a developed a strong habit.

external link Enslaved by K (Guardian April 2008)

A BBC report in May 2000 claimed that medical research had shown that controlled tests on ketamine users had revealed impaired memory and mild schizophrenia several days after taking the drug.

There have been media reports of Ketamine being used as a 'date rape' drug. Make sure you take it with at least one 'straight' friend around.

The Law: Ketamine was classified as a Class C drug under the Under the Drugs Act 2005, with the legislation taking effect from 1st Jan, 2006. The maximum penalty for possession is 2 years in prison and 14 years for supply. You can also get an unlimited fine for both.

FACT!

fact! Ketamine was first synthesized in 1962 by Calvin Stevens at Parke Davis Labs while searching for PCP anaesthetic replacements.

fact! Ketamine was used for anaesthesia, but in the 1970's patients began to report unwanted visions while under its influence.

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The urban75 guide to taking K (if K is your thing - it's not ours)

At a party

If you want to take K at a party make sure you're surrounded by (vaguely) sensible friends, and that you feel safe and secure in your situation. Make sure there's people looking out for you, in case you have a bad time.

Unless you fancy plummeting into a K hole and pissing off your hosts, play safe and only take a small amount (known as a 'bump' or a 'Dorothy') - think about half the size of a normal line of coke and you'll get the idea.

We strongly suggest that you don't take nosefulls of K if you're visiting a friend's bar/club night - don't put them in a situation where they have to explain to the owner why one of their friends is a gormless, gibbering oddity.

If you're visiting someone's party and no one's doing K, show some respect and don't do it. After all, it's a party for people to talk, dance and have fun, not a place for you to self-indulgently examine your inner psyche in a slumbering heap on the dance floor.

If you've been invited around a friend's house for a late drink, keep the K to yourself too: it's anti-social, self indulgent and, frankly, what right have you to inflict your monged out, incoherent presence on an affable host?

If you take too much K you can be rendered very vulnerable, so make sure you either have enough time to get it out of your system before heading home or get a friend to take you home.

[poetdowns]

Aye i found out that it was the party drug "special K" which was popular around a decade ago. But what you get on the street is usually cut or laced with other chemicals.

You try waking up every day so depressed you don't want to live. Day after day after day. Start when you're only 15, and see how long you can keep going.

Take every pill they want to give you and the false hope that comes with it. And when nothing ever helps, you find a new meaning for: desperation.

I just want it to stop.

Poet

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Everone,

There are always new substances appearing and it is important to know that they do no good. Keep away. By the way, believe it or not, Ecstasy is still being abused despite the fact that it is so dangerous.

Allan

[poetdowns]

I don't know where to start with that.

#1, I fail to see that Ecstasy has anything to do with what i'm talking about.

#2, I have a peculiar physiology re drugs: Valium gives me tachybradia, TylenolPM has me up all night long pacing and wound up. Demoral, toradol, and methadone have no effect on me, they don't do a bloody thing for my pain or make me the least bit giddy. Maybe i'm misreading, but i'm not looking for a party drug, and i'm kind of offended at what i see as that assumption.

#3, "The study involving 17 patients found ketamine - used as an anaesthetic but also taken as a recreational drug - relieved symptoms of depression.

Most existing treatments for depression take weeks or even months to relieve people's symptoms.

But the team, writing in Archives of General Psychiatry, said ketamine would need to be altered so it lost its existing hallucinatory side-effects.

This is the first report of any medication or other treatment that results in such a pronounced, rapid, prolonged response. Dr Thomas Insel, NIMH.

Scientists from the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) injected 17 patients with either a very low dose of ketamine or a placebo of saline solution. The participants were all depression sufferers who had tried an average of six treatments that had failed. The researchers then measured their levels of depression minutes, hours and days after the dose was given.

Lead researcher Dr Carlos Zarate Junior, head of the mood and anxiety disorders programme at NIMH, said: "Within 110 minutes, half of the patients given ketamine showed a 50% decrease in symptoms." By the end of day one, he added, 71% had responded to the drug. And at this point the team found 29% of these patients were nearly symptom free. The researchers also discovered one dose lasted for at least a week in more than one-third of the participants. Dr Thomas Insel, director of NIMH, commented: "To my knowledge, this is the first report of any medication or other treatment that results in such a pronounced, rapid, prolonged response with a single dose."

"These were very treatment-resistant patients."

I am very treatment-resistant. So when i read statements like this: "The team says ketamine, in its current form, would not be appropriate for medication because of side-effects at higher doses, which include hallucinations and euphoria." It makes me angry 'cause i see the ghost of american puritanical roots. 'Cause really, who cares? If Buspar worked on my Depression, i can have a bottle of wine to induce a euphoria. I've studied psych meds for decades, i know there's dozens that can have crippling, permanent side effects. Or kill you. (Then there's the side effects mentioned in the ads for the ubiquitous boner pills. And those sound pretty bad, but i guess who cares when sex is on the line?) But oh dear, let's not give medication to the incurably Depressed when it's possible they might have a reaction to it that makes them feel good. Are you kidding me?

I'm not even going to go into what can happen to ECT patients ('cause that would make this far too long), but apparentlythat's acceptable. It appears that anything that jacks you up is acceptable. Which i find equally appalling, hypocritical, and just asinine.

If new research showed that an ant and grasshopper milkshake gets rid of depression -i'm buying a blender.

Poet

[paula]

Hi Poet

I think I am to blame with regarding Ecstasy & not Allan! It was me who mentioned it in the first place! Sorry!

[scared]

That stuffs going to make you think stuff you don't want to.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Poet,

I do not believe that what you are discussing has anything to do with American puritanical attitudes. Do not misunderstand. There is a set of American puritanical attitudes and it comes into view if the President of the nation has an affair with another woman. No one should care. But, here, the puritanical streak shows through. However, not with regard to what you are discussing. Let me explain:

The great concern in American medicine and, I am fairly certain in medicine around the world, is to "do no harm." That is why medicines are rigorously tested before the FDA will approve them for public use. We want to be certain that, 1. the new drug will do no harm and 2. that the new drug will do what it is supposed to do.

You are citing examples where drugs have been experimented with, such as ketamine, and have been found possibly helpful, for other than their original purpose, ie, depression. However, a huge amount of more research must be done before the FDA will ever approve its usage, especially considering its side effects, hallucinations.

Actually, your attitude towards drugs is very American: Let's just find the right pill. We are learning that, when it comes to the human brain and the human mind, it is not so easy. Also, we have a lot of drug abuse here. In fact, drug abuse is a major problem around the world.

I understand your comment about your being treatment resistant with regard to your depression. We know that happens. However, speaking just for yourself, why are you treatment resistant? I mean, what treatments, medical and psychological, have you had in the past?

Allan

[jb-living?]

Hello PoetDowns,

I am brand new to this site, but I saw your post and had a couple coments if that's ok.

I was suprised to hear all that you mentioned about trials of ketamine as a psych med. I worked for a veterinarian years ago and ketamine was used as an anestetic for short surgeries on animals, when general anesthesia was not necessary. I was taught that it "paralized the nerves and muscles" so the animal cold not move, and the animal was not as aware of what was happening, although they were not unconcious. It was found then for a while to be a target of break ins and theft at vet clinics, when it became used a date rape drug.

It would be interesting to me to understand how it works on depression. I feel very frustrated with meds that don't have the desired effect, and then you have to withdraw from them to try something else. I have only begun the medication "journey" for major depression, though I have had it since age 14. I too feel that I am near the end of the journey cause I dont have the perseverance anymore at age 52.

Hope you can hold on and find a source of hope, as I will try to do myself for a while longer.

jb