Concerned... Violent Sex?

[Celeste]

I am only turned on by extremely violent, dominating sex in which I am the abused or the dominated. In movies and books, I am aroused by rape scenes and I find myself imagining that I am the victim. I have dealt with these issues ever since my youth - my very first sexual fantasies were of being publicly raped and mutilated, spectators laughing at my pain. I gather no satisfaction from socially accepted "normal" sex. In masturbation, I suffocate or choke myself to reach high levels of excitement. Effective, enjoyable foreplay consists of wrestling and verbal and physical abuse that can leave bruises for weeks. I know this isn't normal, and this desire to be completely dominated and mistreated interferes with several aspects of my life, especially my relationships - how do I ask a partner to abuse me, not just to be rough but to really cause me intense pain? Is there any way that I can rid myself of this socially unacceptable persistent desire and learn to find satisfaction from gentle, loving sex? If not, how do I reveal what I really want to people that I am with without freaking them out?

[Mark]

I have limited experience conceptualizing this sort of thing. In my limited experience, there has generally been abuse conditions starting rather young in the picture. Meaning that people don't typically end up enjoying being abused and beaten during sex unless there has been abuse in their background. Has that happened in your life, may I ask?

Sex and violence are never that far apart, in that they share something in common, namely physical arousal. This is part of the reason why some people end up liking pain with their sex. Pain is arousing. It's not pleasant arousal, but for some people, particularly people who have been harmed, all forms of arousal seem to merge. The valence of the arousal (pleasant vs. painful) collapses. And some people want more intense arousal from sex than others. So where some people are quite happy with routine sexual contacts, others are never happy unless scaling everest, sexually, and routine sexual contact is boring.

I would think maybe there are several ways to go about this. both of them are going to take an "adventurous" partner, but one is going to be easier to find that the other, I would think.

One strategy might be to work on sexual techniques that are not abusive but which are nevertheless super-intense. Anal sex fills that role for some people. Other people find that everything gets heightened when they are blindfolded, etc. I won't bore you with a lecture you are perhaps more capable of giving than myself but you get the picture, I hope.

The other strategy is to find a safe BDSM partner. It seems to me that there is quite a community out there of people who are into this sort of thing, and many dominant partners understand how to dominate but are at the same time not truly abusive people. I have all this second hand, but read the responses from this question and answer question and you'll see that some people out there are suggesting that this sort of partner is findable.

Good luck with this.

Of course, I have not addressed the therapy part of all this. I don't know that you can change your sexual preferences directly in therapy - at least not to my knowlege (but I only know some things). But if this preference is based on a self-hatred and belief that you are in need of punishment, etc. then that can be worked on in therapy, and if you can start to like and accept yourself better, your sexual needs may change.

Mark

[Celeste]

Thanks for your suggestions. In almost all cases like this that I have read and heard about, abuse occurred during childhood... actually, in all of them. I have never, to my recollection, been abused. However, I also suffer from symptoms of acute BPD and avoidant and dependent personality disorders. I don't understand where much of this came from... I grew up in a relatively stable household, didn't move around too much, both parents supportive, slightly overprotective, and one younger sister; I did well in school but was a bit shy; we struggled with money but always had everything we needed and many additional amenities; etc. My difficulties with symptoms of these other various disorders emerged at the end of high school and beginning of college. I know that repression tends to be understood as more commonly occurring than it actually is, but is it possible that I was abused and don't remember? Is there anything else that might trigger these sort of desires and development of personality disorders?

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Celest,

It is not necessarily actual abuse that might have led to your preferences for violent sex. Instead, a very authoritarian home in which you were made to feel passive by strict rules and regulations might have played a role in all of this. However, none of the reasons are clear at this point. Yes, self hatred could be a causative factor, as well. Keep in mind that Dr. Dombeck is quite correct, that sex and violence are never far apart.

What I am concerned with in reaction to what you wrote is that you will choke yourself while masturbating in order to heighten the sexual feelings. Whether this is masturbatory or done with a partner is less important than the fact that this can be dangerous for you. There have been deaths resulting from sexual practices connected with strangulation. Some of case have been very public. This adds further credence to the fact that your sexual fantasies and wishes are all part of the human sexual experience.

However, it is the dangerous part of this that spurs me to think that therapy might be the best route for you. Also, if there is a "personality disorder" inolved in this then long term psychotherapy or psychoanalytic psychotherapy would be the best route for you, in my opinion.

Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. My only concern about you is your own safety. I would hate to think that you might, by accident, strangle yourself to death or have your partner put too much pressure around your neck resulting in strangulation.

Allan

[paula]

I am only turned on by extremely violent, dominating sex in which I am the abused or the dominated. In movies and books, I am aroused by rape scenes and I find myself imagining that I am the victim.

First of all, let me tell you something! The last thing you want to do is imagine that you are a victim of a RAPE SCENE! Believe me, you don't ever, ever want to go down that road!

How you can be aroused by rape scenes I'll never know? This is something that you want to get right out of your head! I am telling you of past experience! I will not go in to detail as it is my buisness but I was GANG RAPED BY 5 MEN! That is how I started with Mental Health problems! All this happened in a night, but will stay to haunt me for the rest of my life!

my very first sexual fantasies were of being publicly raped and mutilated, spectators laughing at my pain. I gather no satisfaction from socially accepted "normal" sex. In masturbation, I suffocate or choke myself to reach high levels of excitement. Effective, enjoyable foreplay consists of wrestling and verbal and physical abuse that can leave bruises for weeks.

You definitely do need to see a doctor over your issues! To me, it seems that you are as bad as the perpretator!

This is what is so annoying! There are people like you who wants to be abused and raped and nothing ever comes of that! And there is people like me who, didn't ask for any of this but was the victim anyway! You have got to be sick! I know your entitled to your opinions, but give a thought to them that have been abused and raped hey! :mad:

[Mark]

Auto-Asphyxiation is the term used for when people hang or strangle themselves while masturbating. It is supposed to produce a very strong orgasm, but some people die in the process. And like anything else with a danger built into it, the more times you play, the more likely it becomes that one of those times will be the time you get seriously hurt or killed. Allan is right to be concerned, as am I as I think about it. Please don't do that anymore!

It's not necessary to experience abuse to develop borderline personality disorder, but it often helps. There are several kinds of abuse, keep in mind, and most people focus on what we might call "positive" abuse (meaning the sort where you are harmed. There is also "negative" abuse (neglect - where you are ignored to your detriment). And then there are conditions which are not obviously abusive and which some people might come through okay with, but which have a negative effect on other people.

There is probably not a single path into BPD, but the story as I understand it is bio-psycho-social in nature, meaning that when someone develops BPD, it is due to some interaction between a sensitive temperament (which is biological), and an early childhood environment which does not offer conditions that feel safe or which help a child to feel cared for and respected. If you were born with a sensitive temperament, in some cases, that coudl be enough. Which is to say, if you don't remember being abused, chances are reasonable that you weren't. Which is also not to say that repressed memory isn't a real thing - it can be a real thing. It's just not a good idea to suggest to someone that they were abused if they can't remember it themselves becuase that can lead some people to confabulate (unconsciously make up without realizing) such abuse memories.

What happened at the time of college that moved you into this violent sexual direction, do you think? Was there a rape experience, possibly?

I'm interested not only in events that may have occured, but also in ways that you may have started to think about yourself. Allan suggests that maybe self-hatred can play a role here, but you haven't mentioned what your opinion of yourself has been. Is it possible that you started thinking badly about yourself around the time of college? And, if so, was there an event that occured to turn your thinking in that direction?

[Celeste]

Actually, the BPD symptoms were what emerged around the beginning of college... my more deviant sexual urges began earlier, even towards the beginning of high school. I can't think of any particular event that might have triggered it. I do tend to be very impressible and pick up characteristics of those that I spend a lot of time with, and my first (somewhat) close friend in high school had somewhat deviant desires; however his did not reach to this sort of extreme. However, I hesitate to attribute anything of this nature to him, as traits that I pick up from the people I spend time with almost always disappear with time, distance, and association with new people, and our relationship lasted no longer than five months or so. As for my opinion of myself... I have always been a shy, self-conscious person, but not truly self-hating, except for in my extreme low points. I often feel that everything I do is wrong, that I can't help those that I care about, and I do tend to apologize too much and do what I think others want rather than what I want.

And to Paula, and any others with similar responses... I meant no offense, and I hope none was taken. I, in my first post, described my wish to rid myself of this desire, one of the most shameful of the many things I struggle with. I'm not going to tell you that I understand where you are coming from, because I am trying my best to be completely honest and I have not experienced the traumatic experiences that you have, but I know that there are many, many innocent victims of rape and I was only trying to explain my issue with enough detail to elicit a possibly helpful response. Again, this is not something I'm proud of, but rather something I am trying to change... hence my joining and posting on this site. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or rude, but I would really appreciate something other than the negative feelings associated with this that I already experience - suggestions and advice, words from those that might identify with me to some degree, and even support in my attempt to look into a way to change. So to everyone, sorry for any offensive words... and thanks for your time and support.

[JustTrying]

I too have the Violent fantasies. Starting at a young age. Although I was sexually abused as a child. I believe it falls More into that category of neglect and not feeling safe as a child. Growing up in Foster Care you never knew where you may be the next day. Or when your brothers would get taken in by family and you left behind. You never understood why MOM couldn't take care of you . I still have not dealt with all that yet and I know I must.

But for me the fantasies started at around 8 or 9 . I would tie myself up in my room and make myself sleep like that all night. Later in life I lived with 2 different men that BEAT me all the time. They were alcoholic and I knew how to make them hit me. I did it on purpose. Although my husband is not normally a violent man I have succeeded a few times to make him get violent ( he never hit me though) He does understand my SEX KINK.And we play games. Yes games that I feel pain but it is with my consent and if it gets too rough I can ask him to stop or say enough and he quits.

For a few months he quit playing ... and I though of getting on the INTERNET and finding someone to dominate me... But I was too scared to do that . Afraid I would loose my husband.

For me it is punishment. The same reason I cut. Punishment for what I do not know. But I was raised very strick and back then spanking was the norm. I would actually do things to get spanked.

There are people that you can hook up with that understand. But I would not know how to go about approaching someone. I met my husband when I was 19 and he seemed to like it. It started out slow and built over the years.

But as far as fantasies go -- except I have to agree with NOT choking yourself--- As long as you do not hurt anyone and it it all consensual then I feel it is ok. But perhaps like me you have issues that may help you to change what it takes to feel intimate and close and loved.

Gabby

[JustTrying]

AND Paula... I am sorry that you went through that. And I appreciate your feelings. However I do not think it is a good thing to attack anyone. This is a forum where you should be able to feel safe to talk about things --- ALL things... and get advice without being called names.

Sometimes it is best to just not say anything. Not saying that your feelings are not valid.

HUGS, Gabby

[paula]

I understand what your saying Gabby, but I can't just turn a blind eye to someone who is aroused by rape scenes.

This is a forum where you should be able to feel safe to talk about things --- ALL things... and get advice without being called names.

Yes, this is a forum where you can talk about things that trouble you. So what I am saying is, that the mention of these fantasies that are being mentioned are troubling me. So if I should be able to talk about things that trouble me, then this troubles me and I am talking about it!

This is a mental help forum not some kind of fantasy forum! And it was this that started me of with my mental health problems!

Do you realise that this has just opened up a can of worms for me! A can of worms that I would rather the lid was closed up tight and never opened again! This happened to me nearly 10yrs ago and it is only these past couple of years that I have been able to move on with my life! Can you imagine what this did to me? The heart ache this has caused me and my family! I will never forget that night and also would not like to be reminded of it either!

So like I said, Celeste should of thought of what she was saying before she mentioned her fetishes! I believe people who have been through this distraught would also agree with me! There's more to this than meets the eye, but like I said, this is my buisness and no-one eles's. And I would prefere to keep it that way thank you! :mad:

[Mark]

So - this is why it is best to mark posts that describe graphic content with some mark in the title such as [rape] or something like that so that people who don't want to go to a particular place don't have to go there. it is so tricky to know what will set someone off. And it's hardly ever intentional when it happens. What seems commonplace and ordinary to one person is frightening to another.

Paula, sorry you were reminded of something you'd rather not think about right now. Distract yourself for a while and hopefully the memory will die back down. And think twice next time you read a thread with a title "violent sex"

Mark

[JustTrying]

I started and stopped posting to this 3 times today.....

OK Paula I understand where you are coming from... I was not GANG raped .. but I was raped at the age of eight...... over and over again...

My point was this person should be able to express her thoughts without being called names.... I do not totally disagree with you ,, but you called her SICK... well who the hell ain't sick??? I am sorry Paula, I like you.. but I do not agree with putting anyone down. I do not think she was talking about a fetish... she was asking for help to not feel that way....

Gabs

[paula]

She was not talking about fetishes was she not?

my very first sexual fantasies were of being publicly raped and mutilated, spectators laughing at my pain. I gather no satisfaction from socially accepted "normal" sex. In masturbation, I suffocate or choke myself to reach high levels of excitement. Effective, enjoyable foreplay consists of wrestling and verbal and physical abuse that can leave bruises for weeks.

Sorry Gabby but you could of fooled me! What is that above that she is going on about then?

All I'm saying is that she should of had a bit of consideration for others before she written this post, and thought of the way to word it without it causing harm to others?

Like Mark said, she should of put on the title of her post RAPE & read with your own discretion! Then I would of known not to read it?

[appleby]

I think there is difference between a fantasy of being raped and actually being raped. I doubt that most people if not all who are actually being raped find it exciting and fun, where i think that some people find the idea of it or being with a partner acting it out as exciting.

Just a thought....

AB

[WinterSky]

...but I was GANG RAPED BY 5 MEN! That is how I started with Mental Health problems! All this happened in a night, but will stay to haunt me for the rest of my life!

Hi Paula, do you have PTSD? A lot of women get PTSD for sexual abuse, assault, etc. You have been triggered by this horribly and I just want you to know that it is okay. You are not alone, and if you want to share anything with us here on this site, remember you have friends here... xxx

[Celeste]

Thanks, AB; having someone identify with me and realize where I am coming from means a lot. I really appreciate you more clearly explaining to others what I meant while I wasn't here. As for the choking, I have been decreasing my use of that over the last several months, having come across the term "auto-asphyxiation" on the Web a little while back, totally on accident, and reading on the dangers of it.

To Paula, Mark, and everyone else... I know I'm new to this community, and I apologize for failing to recognize one of the rules. I thought that the heading of "violent sex" would suffice, but I suppose I could have been more careful, as I will be in the future.

[paula]

Look Celeste

I must apologise for my behaviour, sorry! It's just that it opened a can of worms for me! A can of worms that I thought that I had screwed the lid on that tight never to be opened again?

It wasn't your fault and I'm sorry! It's just that I flipped! It brought back memories for me that I've been trying so hard to leave behind?

It didn't help as I am Bipolar and going through one of my downers at the moment, and because of what has happened in the past, which you wasn't likely to know or anybody on this site or any site, I just totally lost it!

I just felt like I had been tipped a little bit to much! To be honest it sent me skitso. I have had to bring my visit with my Psychiatrist forward. Which I seen today and he has put me on more medication temporarily, just till I get my head sorted out. But at least now I can talk without screaming or crying all the time!

This had nothing to do with you, like I said before, It opened a very bad can of worms for me, a can of worms that I pushed at the back of my mind!

[WinterSky]

I am only turned on by extremely violent, dominating sex in which I am the abused or the dominated. In movies and books, I am aroused by rape scenes and I find myself imagining that I am the victim. I have dealt with these issues ever since my youth - my very first sexual fantasies were of being publicly raped and mutilated, spectators laughing at my pain. I gather no satisfaction from socially accepted "normal" sex. In masturbation, I suffocate or choke myself to reach high levels of excitement. Effective, enjoyable foreplay consists of wrestling and verbal and physical abuse that can leave bruises for weeks. I know this isn't normal, and this desire to be completely dominated and mistreated interferes with several aspects of my life, especially my relationships - how do I ask a partner to abuse me, not just to be rough but to really cause me intense pain? Is there any way that I can rid myself of this socially unacceptable persistent desire and learn to find satisfaction from gentle, loving sex? If not, how do I reveal what I really want to people that I am with without freaking them out?

Hi Celeste, I've felt almost the same way with exception to the mutilation and physical abuse. But the sex part I've had fantasies of rough and forceful sex, and/or being raped but not to the extent of hitting or choking. As far as my situation my therapist last Wednesday said that she did not think that was normal. I have not had much sex in real life vs fantasy, and have never had good sex :eek: . But as far as the danger mentioned in this thread, ditto! Stay safe!

Personally I cannot connect sex with love. Yes I have had crushes and it would be arousing, but that is just a physical reaction as far as I know. Well now that I think about it, when I was little I'd get crushes and it would be about my emotional needs. I guess it's still the same or has been the same as I got older. But a crush is not real love, it is just infatuation.

Have you ever felt loved in any way? If so in what ways? How about infatuation?

[JustTrying]

Never mind....

[WinterSky]

Never mind....

I do not understand. :confused:

[JustTrying]

..........Gabby

Edited November 2, 2008 by JustTrying
Decided it was too much info for a public site

[Mark]

to all who are participating in this thread:

I got a private message the other day from someone who felt there were war-stories happening here (which is the term I learned for when people try to top one another in a progression of increasingly non-therapeutic talk). That author was concerned about the graphic nature of the topic being discussed and found it difficult to handle. As we know, paula has also had a strong reaction to this topic. What I wrote back to this author with was my sense that while this certainly is a difficult and troubling topic to talk about, that it is a good thing for poeple to be able to talk about it too, and that I did not feel things were rising to the level at which I would need to take action. But I do want to report to those here that it remains important to mark the titles of your posts. Probably a good idea to use some generic warning tag such as [sexual violence] or something like that rather than trying to be too descriptive in the title. We need a way to allow people who find this material disturbing to be warned (and not overstimulated in the process) and to know not to read the posts.

Mark

[JustTrying]

Didn't mean to be doing War Stories.... however it did do me good to talk about it... but I am done....

Gabby