Advice please

[Kalima]

I want to move on, and I don't know how to go about it.

I'll start at the begining, I'm 24 years old and depressed. My reasons for depression I think all stem from my childhood. But although I do blame my parents, I don't really think it's all that constructive. I have no intention of confronting them about their behaviour because I have tried in the past and it didn't help. So, my parent's relationship is abusive, originally I would say that it was all on my dad's side, but over the years it has changed, they seem to be locked in an abusive cycle. My dad is controling and manipulative, he thinks fear and respect are the same. He one of those people who see you upset and says 'do you want me to give you something to really cry about'. My mother, is irrational, she tries to be manipulative but just isnt very good at it, she's clingy and jealous and stuff. However, I wonder if my feelings about my mother may be based somewhat on what I have been told to believe. My dad has always put her down, implied or even said out right that she's stupid, crazy etc. And I know there have been times I have done the same, repeating the same propergander.

It scares me how similar I can be to him. I can lie with a straight face and have done so many times, though honestly I have done that less and less as I've grown up. I don't like to lie, but I don't seem to have much issue with it when it suites my needs. Usually to avoid an argument.

My dad was always quick to anger, anything seemed to set him off and I deal with it differently to my sister and mother. I just take it, become passive, switch off. Thats not to say it doesnt hurt, but I guess I don't want to give him anything further to use against me. Both my mother and sister argue back, my mother in an uncontrolled emotional way. My sister uses her anger as her strength, but the after mathe takes it's toll.

I have grown up in this environment, I think I thought it was normal. Though, perhaps I'm lying to myself, because neither I nor my sister told a soul, we didnt talk about it either. I asked my mother to leave him countless times the last time I asked was when I was 15. We were in the car and she told me he'd hit her. I'd noticed bruises before and even said something but she'd never admitted it to me. I wanted her to go to the police or to leave him, I was the person she confided in. But she wouldn't, because she loved him, she says she still does.

I stopped asking her to leave him after that, stopped offering to be leaned on. When they had a row and she sat alone crying, I didnt go to her anymore. A few months later I remember she told me off for something, and typical teenage rebellion I responded 'stupid b**ch' or something similar. She went to hit me, and I grabbed her hand and yelled at her 'If you hit me I'll hit you back'. She hasnt attempted to do so since.

So I guess my home life wasnt the greatist, and I would describe it at emotional abuse and intimidation. The other thing from my past that I think can be traced as a cause is that when I was 11 I was sent to a school where I would remain from 8am to 8.30pm 5.5 days a week. None of the other day pupils did this, they were collected by their parents at 4.30pm everyday. It was a bording school, and I felt abandoned, it was only 15m from my home, yet I wasnt allowed to go home till 8.30pm and then I would spend 30m or so with my parents before sleeping. my sister recieved the same treatment when she turned 11 and joined my school. We wernt one of the borders and we were different from the other daygirls.

To my parents minds, or so they say, they were giving me the best education they could. I didnt live in a town but in the countryside so my weekends I spent with my sister or 2 other girls we knew in the village. There wasnt much social interaction outside school.

So thats my past. Since then, I have gone to university, got a job and last week I moved out. I lived away for 3 years whilst I was at university. I feel better away from home, but I'm still down, I'm still dweeling on the past and I dont know how to stop.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Kalima,

Welcome to our community. Wow, you have been through a lot, there is no question about it. In fact, I would say that you are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress because of all the anger and violence you witnessed and experienced up until now.

Congratulations on moving out. You needed to do that in order to save yourself and start to recover from all that has happened.

My suggestion would be that you start attending psychotherapy with a psychologist or licensed clinical social worker.

Of course you feel depressed after all you have been through. Now, you deserve the opportunity to live happily.

How are you coping with living on your own now?

Many people in our community grew up with one type of abuse or another. What do the rest of you want to say to Kalima?

Allan

[Kalima]

Moving out is a step in the right direction. I can see that, but I don't feel as good as I thought I would. Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but sometimes I think I'm being self destructive. I havent really been eating all that well, and I have been sleeping just as poorly as when I was at home.

I do love my parents, and sometimes I do like them but I feel so confused. After some 'gentle pursuasion' from some friends I have online I booked myself an appointment with my GP. Generally I avoid going to the doctors but I feel like i'm getting worse instead of better.

For the last 3-4 weeks I've been running a temperature on and off, my sleep is disrupted and I'm finding it more and more difficult to concentrate at work. I also have other cold like symptoms and I'm putting it down to being run down, not sleeping etc.

Whats really fustrating me is I can see that if I ate properlly, slept properly I'd probally feel less stressed and able to cope. And although I know that I can't bring myself to do it. I can't relax and I'm not being productive. I guess I'm just disapointed in myself. There are lots of other peope in far positions and they manage, why can't I?

[Guest ASchwartz]

Kalima,

When someone is depressed or ill it makes no difference that other people have worse illnesses. All that matters is to seek help and be kind to ourselves. You are disappointed in yourself. Don't be. You went through a horrible time and you are entitled to see the Medical Doctor and get help for your cold symptoms.

You really should see a therapist and start getting help for your depressive symptoms and for all that happened to you before.

When you have been bullied and abused it is hard to feel entitled to anything.

Allan

[Kalima]

Kalima,

You really should see a therapist and start getting help for your depressive symptoms and for all that happened to you before.

Allan

My intention in seeing the GP is to get help with my depression. A cold is a cold, and I think it will clear up when I start dealing with the other stuff.

[Guest ASchwartz]

It is good that you are seeing your GP and I know anti depressant medication will help your mood. However, the combination of psychotherapy with medication is what works best. I hope you will consider psychotherapy.

Allan

[Kalima]

I don't want to go on meds. Everyone I've ever spoken to who has been on them has described it as numb. I don't want to go to that place. I was hoping a GP would refer me or something. Is that not the right way to ask?

[Mark]

Kalima,

I would think that a GP would be a good starting place for therapy referals.

The UK mental health system is very different than here in the United States. I've heard some people talk about being able to access psychotherapy free of direct charges there. I assume that it is tax-supported or something like that. That would be an unheard of thing here where there is very little insurance coverage for mental health and for therapy in general. If you really do have that benefit, then it would seem to be a good opportunity to utilize it for at least a short time. Some of the therapy formats that are known to work best for depression are called cognitive behavioral therapy and interpersonal therapy, so if you are offered a choice of style of therapy, ask for one of those.

Medications for depression are a mixed bag. Some people respond very well and the side effects are worth the benefits. Other people don't respond or don't like them. I wouldn't rule out medication as a possibility, but it is fine to start with one of the psychotherapies described above - they are studied and shown to work to help with depression just as well as medication if not better.

Mark

[Kalima]

So i went to my gp, very briefly told her I was depressed and described my symptoms, I told her I wasn't keen on meds, she didnt ask any further and offered the theapy that they have in my area. (the health care system is paid for in our taxes so free). She told me who to book an appointment with and I made one for that following day, I was lucky they had a slot avalible and I had booked the rest of the week as holiday. The appointment with a counciler was wednesday.

She was nice, but I came out of that appointment feeling stupider. I'm suposed to write my thoughts so we can go through them at my next visit, in 3 weeks. Her main focus was doing activities, making lists of jobs i need to do and ones i enjoy doing and kinda filling in my time with doing them.

She sugested that I should speak to my gp about meds as she thought they would possibly take the edge off. Then she warned me that the meds often make you feel worse for a week or so before they have a positive affect.

So i dunno, since I've been off work, I had 3 days booked off I've felt better. But I've been very un-productive and spent thursay crying or sleeping. The Monday before the appointment I felt like I was going mad, i was so agitated and I started crying at work. I hate loosing control and I hate the way I turn in on myself, my thoughts are all muddled. I haddnt been to the doctors in over 8 years and I feel like it was a complete waste of time, and I know it's probally just me but I feel like I was whineing and I should have just coped.

[Chou-Tonbo]

You've been through so much! You've made some huge steps, I agree with the others. I think one of the things that can happen when you move out is a bit of relief, and some of the tension that's been keeping you going is released. Then you start looking at other stuff - or your brain wants to look at other stuff. That conflict can be part of the stress you're feeling. By going to the therapist, you can relieve a bit of that stress. Did you tell your therapist about the abuse or just the depression? It'd be very important for them to know about the abuse to help you effectively. The assignments you mention sound like you just talked about the depression part to me, which is why I ask.

I am also not big on meds myself. However, your body could be running low on chemicals needed to function. This happens sometimes - the gland gets tired and doesn't keep up. This is one of the big reasons I think it's good to look at meds even though I don't like them. Even if it's for a few months, it can help your body bounce back. Yeah, there is a bit of transition time. And they know your opinion about meds, so hopefully they'll respect that and keep you on the lowest dose possible. You'll be able to tell your doctor and therapist how you feel on them, and they'll be able to let you know if that's just part of the transition. They will also be able to know when your body is recovered so you can get off the meds. One of my friends with Bi-Polar was on meds for quite some time but is off them now that he's been able to learn coping mechanisms. As far as I know, he still sees someone regularly just to make sure everything is going well.

While I was getting my bachelor degree, I went through various stuff including panic attacks, taking walks and hiding, ignoring most of my friends, etc. I was seeing a therapist during this time thankfully. It was a very stressful time. I didn't know what was happening, just that I would have to go and hide and tell myself to breath. I would try to not cry unless it was night time and people couldn't see my face. I'm sure people knew though. I was around all types of people that cared about me, but I was so afraid of what I was feeling and thinking. I just wanted everything to stop. I'm glad I kept going to therapy. She was young, but she gave me tools and helped me. Very much worth it.

At any rate, good steps taken - keep going. You're not whining, you're dealing with some horrible memories. Therapy really can help you cope and function like you want to.

Stay strong,

Chou-Tonbo

[Kalima]

I’m not very good at talking, to get the referral to a counceler I went in to see the gp, told her I was depressed and told her I didn’t want to go on meds really. She then said that in my area they had this thing called ‘Layered Care’ and it’s counciling etc and u can get refered further from this, I read it in the leaflet she gave me. The gp gave me a little pack to fill out with questions and so on, so I did that at home and She told me to make an appointment with Bina at my doctors practive. So I made the appointment, She read my questionnaire, it was basically symptoms that you tick and there wrer questions about thinking of suicide and stuff. I answered the questionnaire honestly, it was all a lot, a lil, middle type answers. I admitted to hurting myself and to thinking about suicide. Those were the 2 things she jumped on 1st. She asked me if there was anything else I could do rather than hurting myself, I’m not stupid, duh ofcorse there is, but hurting myself is the most direct and effective way of handling the pain or numbness and give me immediate reliefe, I cant go and sob in the toilets at work for 2 hours and start screaming can I? I didn’t say that I just told her probally. Then she asked about the suicidal thoughts, I told her I didn’t intend to carry it out. She asked why, I told her it would hurt other people and I didn’t want that. I don’t think that’s quite the full answer, it’s more like im not brave enough to do it, Im too weak and haven’t the guts. She asked why I was depressed, I told her I thought it had to do with my past, I explained that my parents have a tourbulant relationship. I confirmed I hadn’t told anyone when I was growing up that even my sis and I didn’t speak of it, and I told her my sis had people she told always,. She asked how I dealt with it, I told her I didn’t, not at the time. She never mentioned anything else about it and told me how we were going to work on the depression with the activity stuff I said before. So I dunno, maybe I should have tried to explain more but I founf it very difficult, and now at present I’m not slipping as much as I was, and I feel like canceling the appointmements, I wont but I have considered it, I wont because I know I have to give it more time before I dismiss this as failure, I have to keep trying, after all I only realized I had a problem with depression when it got as bad as it did recently. Before this I was depressed, for a long time, perhaps years, but it’s kind of a normal state for me.

If im honest I can’t remember feeling really happy since I was a little kid of maybe 8 or 9 and even that was rare rather than the norm. I always felt sperate different, maybe coz I had a secret I was worried that other people would find out? I had a best friend when I was at primary school and we told each other everything, but I didn’t tell her about my parents. A few incidents come to my mind a lot. I remember when I was in my parents room with my mum, I had been watching tv in there because they were fighting in the living room, the moved the argument into the bedroom, my mum bolted the door. So my dad yelled at her through the door, hit the door kicked the door, told me to open it, my mum told me not to. I was under 10 then, not sure how old tho. I remember they shouted and yelled and I went over to the window and looked out on the back garden. I didn’t really speak much to either of them, I was a tool to give them what they wanted or not nothing more, I didn’t exsist. I stared out of the window, I didn’t cry, and then he boke the bolt and managed to get into the room, I don’t rememeber anything else as clearly, the shouting continued I think the fight may have got worse, I think I managed to go to my own bedroom, I know my little sister wasn’t there I think she was at a friends house or something.

Whats the point of thinking about memories like this? Why do they seem to keep popping up in my mind? Why is it so much rarer to remember nice moments?

:confused:

[Guest ASchwartz]

Good Questions:

Tell us about some of the good things in your life.

Also, give the therapy a chance. You are just beginning.

Allan

[Kalima]

Well, both my parents are part of a big family and when ever we went to see them or they came to see us the parents would act appropriatly. Well they'd put on a good show, they acted like there were no problems in their relationship. Usually before we saw family and after there'd be a fair amount of stress, like on the way there they'd be fighting in the car and my dad would threaten to just go back home or whilst we tidyed up the house dad ranting that it still didnt look acceptable. The duration of the family visit would be great.

Like I popped to my parents house last weekend because I agreed to give my sister a lift and as I opened the door a 7 year old boy and a 5 year old girl launched themselves at me, my cousins. Ok they were a bit hyper and prolly very annoying for their parents, but to see them so happy makes me feel happy.

I felt really badly depressed before I went to see the GP I was seriously giving suicide real consideration, at the moment I feel I'm over the worst. I'm not constantly depressed anymore, or at least not to the same point. So I will give theapy a chance, but I'm slightly skeptical at the councilers abilities.

[Natalie]

Hi-

It's absolutely fine to be somewhat skeptical, but if your mind is too closed to suggestions, then therapy won't work. That being said, the relationship between you and the therapist is a vital key to helping you get better. Psychotherapy is an intense interpersonal interaction that hinges on your ability to be open and honest with the person helping you. There is nothing wrong with shopping around for a therapist that makes you feel safe and comfortable. So, please don't write off all therapy as "unsuccessful" if it doesn't work with this particular person you are seeing now.

[Kalima]

I had my 2nd session today, I think this one was better, we both got to talk and I'm in control of myself more so took in more of what she was saying.

My days aren’t as deeply depressing as before. I can think without chaos in my mind. I have a level of peace again. I talked to the councilor about my parents some. Also talked to my gp last week, we discussed the free options on the national health service, they do have CBT and also another one which was interesting 'Human Given Approach'. I had head of CBT from this forum and looked it up, looked up the given one. both are interesting. I think I'm going to let the councilor do what she does and if it doesn’t work then I'll maybe talk about what I've read.

I've been making an effort to talk to people a bit more, think that’s helping. And I have been talking to my sister. She reminded me of some bits and pieces I'd, I guess the best term would be, forgotten. I’ve come to accept that myself and my sister experienced emotional abuse in watching our parents unhealthy relationship and that we have both been directly subject to the belittling and bullying tactics of our dad and the irrational and jealous behavior of our mother. My sister came over to my home to watch movies and so on, so we could have some peace to relax. She reminded me of a few incidents which I had somehow forgotten about. The time my mother hit me around the head with a hairbrush hard enough to break it. The time my sister who was 8 at the time decided to walk to school rather than wait for my dad to driver her got dragged into the car and house by her hair. I’d forgotten all the pushes and shoves, I remembered the big things. Thought it was odd that I’d forgotten that stuff, my sister told me a little and the memories just came flooding back.

So I guess it wasn’t solely emotional abuse as I assumed. Still I wonder if I’ve forgotten anything else. I’ve had a few panic attacks. Had 2 before I moved out last month, and started to have one this past weekend but managed to calm down. I think the most recent was just because I was upset and started panicking that I would have a panic attack. The 2 previous ones occurred after sleeping. I don’t recall what I was dreaming or thinking about in any detail but my dad was in one of my dreams.

I scare myself. My imagination is too vivid. I have read too many things and I cant be sure if my memories are correct, not when my recollection is so clouded.

[Mark]

Remembering things is a good thing generally, but it is also the case that people forget things becuase they are painful and sometimes it's okay to let them remain forgotten. Just becuase you remember doesn't mean that you'll heal, if you know what I mean. It can be a help to heal when you remember, but not necessarily in every case.

The other thing is that what happened in the past cannot be altered, only re-conceptualized. It's often more important to focus on what the meaning of present events are. If you think in terms of the past, the question to ask can become - how do past events influence my present? Becuase you can do something to change how things are in your life right now.

[Kalima]

So it's better to move on, and look at the problems i currently have and solve them rather than the whys.

I couldnt see the links to my past before, but now i understand where my attitudes and behavious came from.

[tigers9ers]

Hi Kalima I am Kris and I have many issues. As far as therapist go I would recommend finding one that you feel like understands and doesn't just want to medicate you. I went to four therapist before I found one I liked. All this has been done in the last 6-8 months. Keep talking to someone I am 35 and just now realizing I need to talk to someone because I can no longer keep it suppressed. If I do, I get extremely angry and usually take it out on my wife(not violently and not as bad as you describe your father) but nontheless I do take it out on my wife. Before I was married I used to go out and fight or try to get as many women as I could but none of that relieved the pain it just made it worse. I would then feel guilty and hate myself so please just keep on talking to someone it will help in time

[corinne]

I to was a vitim as you are. I had to go through sevral counclers before i got the right one. I strongly sugest you seek help. I also wont you to know that you are on the right track in the healing procces. It takes years and forgiveness.

i'm not saying to forget but to fore give yourself and those who have hurt you. If your family makes you feel so bad then just maybe letting go and severing the relationship is the best thing to do.

I gave up on trying to save my parents and my sister. I have not talked to them in seven years up untill about a mouth ago. I did this because i was hurting and I needed to stop my pain, because my children where paying for my pain. I needed to end it.

I lost every thing because of my past and I realized reliving it over and over was not helping. I just kept punishing myself and my children. Tring to find answers to why they did what thay did only will leave you feeling more and more empty.

Not to make excuses for your parent, but they have the same issues as you and they keep living it over and over.

I am not a religous person, but I am spiritual. I truely believe in god and put my faith in him every day. I ask him to forgive my sins and to protect my family from me and others. I ask him to give me streight every day to fight my demons.

No one can hurt me unless I give them the power to hurt me. Take your power back. Trust in god that all good things will come to you and your family. Find god and trust him.

Every time we have a exsperance wheather possitive or negitive there is a lesson that god is tring to teach you. God gives us warnings that most of us miss or eccnore. Lissen to that voice that calls out to you. Lissen to that not in your stomic. That is god speaking to us. Lissen to him and fallow him, because he will show you the way.

I hope this helps you to figure out what your next steps maybe. I also wont you to know there is hope and light at the end of the tunnle if you believe you deserve it. And you deserve to be happy no matter what any one tells you. Once you have found happiness with your self only then can you truely be happy.

Cory

[Kalima]

Every time we have a exsperance wheather possitive or negitive there is a lesson that god is tring to teach you. God gives us warnings that most of us miss or eccnore. Lissen to that voice that calls out to you. Lissen to that not in your stomic. That is god speaking to us. Lissen to him and fallow him, because he will show you the way.

Cory

Hi Cory,

I'm in a good mood really at the moment. I'm at work and over the last 2 weeks I have regained my ability to concentrate, .

I used to believe in a god similar to you, but over the past few years my faith has failed. I still believe theres something. (I'd dread to think that we are just a chaotic accident) But I dont think I believe there is any guidence anymore. But if you think about it (at least to my mind), if this is all there is, is that really so bad? I dont think so.

Been thinking (oh no not again) and I kinda feel more free than I have in a long time. Yes I still get low but my self belief is growing. Mentally I think I'm back at the stage I was at when I lived away from home at university. After finishing uni I went and lived at home and thats when the depression really set in I think. My lowest point was recently and coincided with the death of my grandmother's husband. The closest person i'd ever had to a granddad. My parents were away on holiday for the funeral so My younger sister and I went together. I remeber we were talking about it and realised he was the nicest person we'd ever met. I wish i'd spent more time with him, but he's gone now.

I in general, dislike christianity, the ceremony and services. when I have to attend I find I sit there very tense and agrguing in my head with the words that the priest says. Think that might be because I went to a catholic primary school where we had Mass twice a week in addition to praying in the morning, at lunch and before we left the classroom to go him, oh and I got to go to church every sunday and be in the church choir (I liked that tho) and my mum liked the status it gave her. My seconday school was 'church of england' and we went to church at christmas, this was a status thing to show the parents that their kids were getting a good english education. So the service didnt exactly foster much appreciation from me.

(I'm kinda cynical) My sister told me the other day that she thinks we were lucky and had a good childhood. Now we've discussed lots of the mierda that our parents did to each other and us when we were young, and she agrees they havent been 'good' parents. So I asked her what she ment.

So she explained that we were lucky to have family, not mum and dad, but the aunts, uncles and cousins we have (well in excess of 50) and that we got to see most of them whilst growing up. Most of her friends didnt have that. She said her bf hasnt ever spoken to his cousins and that his family dont even see them.

It's kinda annoying tho, coz we both agree that even if we needed help because of our parents relationship (which is still pretty warped) we couldnt turn to any of these people. I think only maybe 1 or 2 would even believe us.

How is it one person can be so different in what he shows to different people? Strange.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Kalima,

I agree with Mark that none of us can re write the past. However, we can decide what script and what story line and themes we will follow in the present and the future. Therapy should help you do those things. Probably the greatest challenge for anyone who suffered abuse is to no longer blame your self for what happened because it was not your fault nor is there anything wrong with you today. That is the second challenge: to not view your self as permanently damaged as a result of childhood abuse.

Allan

[Kalima]

Hi Allan,

Thanks for writing, and the other people too, It's nice to have another opinion. More than nice really.

I don’t blame myself for the past, I blame them, to be honest I’ve very angrey with my parents. I still see them on a regular basis and work with my dad every few weeks, my sister lives with them and so I can’t really avoid seeing them. I’m fustrated they think they gave me this wonderful and idealic childhood and it was nothing like that for either myself or my sister. We did try to tell them once but as soon as something negative was mentioned they both started telling us how hard it was and how bad their childhoods were.

My parents have a pre-occupation with money and it drives me insane, I somewhat recently bought my own appartment but I wasn’t able to do it without some help from my dad, he has loaned me 15% for the deposit. So when I eventually move he will get 15% of whatever I receive for the flat. But he brings it up for no apparent reason ‘How’s my investment doing? Hope your looking after it?’. Whenever either myself or my sister have been sucessful in something he’ll tell us it’s all because of him, and the education he gave us or whatever. But really, arnt the good things in my life in spite of him? In spite of his controlling nature and violent outbursts I was able to finish school with fairly good grades and complete a degree?

Wish I could just let it all go but it’s like a knot inside me, mostly I can push it back and forget about it, but it’s there, lingering and waiting.

Your right I do see myself as damaged, some how broken and I am working on fixing myself. I can see all the things I’ve done in an effort to cope, physical symptoms of living with them and I need to be stronger and somehow improve my will power. I suppose acceptane is what I should be working towards? but I can see my flaws and I can't just overlook them.:eek:

[SuziQ]

Girl on this post has similar problems and is also in UK. Maybe you could post to her and help her get into the system to get help. It is difficult to know how your health system works from the US. When you help others, you also help yourself and it takes your mind off your problems--at least for a moment.

And, although it may seem silly, getting things done does help depression and it helps you feel in control of your life. Writing down what you have done or feel helps you see yourself. And my experience was that some of the things I was so upset about several weeks ago were just not important three weeks later. Reading what I worried about three weeks ago helped me monitor myself and see myself better. I could get in a tizzy over the dumbest things and didn't realize it until I did the writing exercise. Without the written reminder, I would not have thought about those worries again and would not have been able to see myself as well. I, actually, was embarrassed over some of my worries. For instance, someone didn't talk to me. I would spend hours worrying and feeling bad. A few days later, the person would say how pre-occupied she was with something in her life and hope she didn't offend anyone. I would have forgotten how many hours I spent thinking how hurt I was unless I had written it down.

And my mom used to say if I cried she would give me something to cry about. I just turned it around so that I am grateful that I don't turn into a bundle of tears as some do. I have learned gradually to see my parents behavior as something that is their problem and see myself as a survivor of a difficult childhood rather than a victim . It helps. You can't change what happened, but you can change your atttitude about it. I hate what happened, but I don't hate myself because it happened. They were wrong.