"Transference" issues anyone?

[Catmom]

I am a single 48 year old woman who has been in treatment for pathological gambling for about 3 1/2 years and have turned my life around. In fact, my life is better now than I ever could have dreamed when I was in the depths of my addiction over 3 years ago.

However, I have developed a huge attraction to my male therapist who is slightly older than I. Unlike a previous female poster on this subject, I am not angry that it happened and believe that this is the way many women (maybe men, too?) are set up emotionally. Why wouldn't I feel attracted to a male who accepts me, warts and all, and to whom I have revealed my deepest self?

In fact, I think that the attraction, as painful and hopeless as it is, is what "hooked" me into doing the very hard work of changing my life. I had to choose to give up the escape of gambling and to trust my therapist when he said that there was a better way to live. I doubt I would have worked as hard initially without the spark of attraction keeping me motivated.

Nothing will ever come of this attraction in terms of a personal relationship with my therapist and that is as it should be. He does everything he can to discourage any kind of dependency in clients.

I have toyed with the idea of telling him of my feelings but have decided not to. He is a CBT therapist and heavy duty feelings are not his strongest point. He is best as helping me think rationally, which has helped me immensely in my recovery from addiction. Further, if I did tell him, our relationship would never be the same---the bell cannot be "unrung" as it were.

Hopefully, these feelings of extreme attraction will diminish with time. He is starting to hint at eventual termination and as my feelings stand now if I were not to be able to see him at all, it would be excruciating. I expect that as my life continues to expand from the extremely narrow focus of active addiction, my emotional energy will go elsewhere. (I guess I am hoping I will find a man to have a torrid relationship with so I can forget the therapist )

Is there anything I can do to expedite my getting over this? It is quite painful. Thanks for any help you can give.

[Proverbs31:28]

I have not been in this situation but I would think that, before he does terminate the relationship, you should start looking for another therapist to help you deal with the transition. Preferably a female therapist. As a general rule, I only use female therapists. Not because I *think* I would become attracted but more because I feel more comfortable talking to someone I feel could empathize with my issues. However, the more I read about transference issues, I am thinking it is a wise thing to do. I think a new therapist could not only round out your gambling therapy but also help you deal with the attraction/termination issues you are facing.

[Catmom]

Thanks for your response, lifeless. At this point, I don't believe I need further therapy in general but would just like to be rid of this attraction.

Is this an unrealistic goal, I wonder?

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Catmom,

Just because your therapist uses CBT does not mean that they are unaware of transference and its meaning. It is always better to talk with your therapist about feelings. Feelings, loving or hateful, happy or angry, are always important. For some reason you are avoiding discussing your feelings. Perhaps you fear rejection. Any good therapist would never reject because of feelings. Any therapist who rejects someone for expressing feelings is not well trained and not even qualified. Therefore, I would suggest discussing your feelings. CBT or otherwise, the way you feel is always important.

What do you think??

Allan

[Catmom]

Wow, Allan, you have given me a lot to think about. I will try to explain what my relationship with my therapist is like and see what you think.

First, I would like to clarify that I do not personally have trouble expressing feelings to my therapist if they are about other people or situations in my life. I can express the full spectrum from anger to joy & even to grief, depending on the circumstance.

I don't even have a problem expressing if I am angry with him

However, when it comes to expressing affectionate feelings toward him, it is a much touchier and more intimate matter. His demeanor in therapy is of one who wishes to stay one step removed from the emotions of the client, which to a point is an essential detachment for a mental health professional. But, I have been to several therapists over the years and it appears to me that he takes this to a higher level than average. In fact, he told me he is very conscious of wanting to stay clear of the extreme emotional energy that he exposed to in order to avoid personal depletion and burnout. He did not say this in so many words, but this was the gist of what he was saying, I think.

Here is an example that might explain this better: At one point, I felt so grateful to him for his help in my recovery from compulsive gambling, etc that I bought him a somewhat long & “gushy” thank you card. When I handed it to him, he read the first couple of words and then skipped to my short hand-written message at the end & just said thank you. From this, I got the distinct impression that he was uncomfortable with my very strong feelings toward him and did not appreciate the somewhat flowery words of the card.

Later, I remarked that he seems not to appreciate "gushiness" and he did not deny it.

He also strongly discourages questions that are too personal.

It is hard to explain all the nuances of any relationship in a few paragraphs, but hopefully this gives you some idea of what's going on.

I do fear that he will immediately terminate with me if I were to admit to the strength of my feelings. To an outsider, this might appear to be a silly fear, but it is real for me. In addition, I am ashamed of my feelings because I do not have a significant male other in my life and believe that if I were successful in this area, I wouldn't be having this so- called "transference" towards my therapist.

Thanks for your thought-provoking input!

Catmom

[Catmom]

I forgot to mention that he always sits on the opposite side of his desk from clients, which I think is a nonverbal way of keeping his distance.

Allan, if you have time to answer I would appreciate it. How could it benefit me to discuss these very vulnerable feelings? I can certainly appreciate the risk, but I am not seeing how it would help for me to discuss this issue with this man.

Thanks again for any help you can offer.

Catmom

[Catmom]

If Allen is on vacation or something, can someone respond?

[nightfalls]

catmom

Hi, I will let the actual ones with the Phd answer you on why you should talk it out with your T. I know I would be extreamly shy to try and discuss this with a T if it were to happen to me, but I'm shy to discuss anything in person that is:o

I think that you sound very strong in that you said you don't really need the therapy anymore that you just need to work on these feelings that have developed as a result of building the relationship with this T. Mabe you could bring the topic up in a organized way and tell him flat up that you are experincing "transferance" towards him and need some help to overcome this particular issue before closing the therapy off completly. I hope it go's well for you and I'm sure you are not the only one he has treated that has mabe brought the topic up to him. So like Allen said if he is a good T he will know how to handle the situation.... Just my thoughts;) take care

[Catmom]

Thanks for responding, forgeting. It was beginning to seem like I was talking to myself I like your suggestions. It is just extremely scary to expose my feelings like that to my therapist. From the outside, this might seem silly on my part but it is very real for me. Just imagining saying something scares me so much that I almost want to cry. I have not withheld truths other than this from my therapist but this is the "big one."

[Guest ASchwartz]

Dear Catmom,

I know I delayed but I wanted to give other people a chance to give their opinions and advice.

Forgeting, thankyou for your on-target comments to Catmom.

Yes, I agree with Forgeting, bring up the issue in a non emotional way and ask questions. If your therapist reports that this is something he cannot deal with you then have choices: 1) You can find a therapist who deals with transference issues or, 2) If you really believe you no longer need therapy you can stop and see how you feel.

In my opinion, and please remember, this is my OPINION, I have doubts about a therapist who sits behind a desk during therapy sessions. I also have serious doubts about any therapist of any type of training who refuses to talk about the emotions a patient (client) brings up. In fact, it confounds me as to why a trained psychologist or trained licensed clinical social worker would discourage feelings even if they use CBT. :confused:

Other therapists and people in the commlunity are invited to give their opinions.

Allan

[Mark]

I want to say to forgetting and others that their contributions here are really valuable, as valuable as anything that comes out of my mouth, or Allan's or Natalie's. While we have some knowledge to impart, we don't live with these various conditions ourselves. It is always good to hear from someone who really understands a problem from the inside out, and who maybe has some helpful suggestions to offer, having been through the treatment process some. There is no need to defer to us PhDs: we have a part of the picture, and so do you.

[Catmom]

I value both moderators' and members' opinions. The reason I wanted moderators' opinions was that they presumably have many therapist-client relationship experiences to draw on. At the same time, there is nothing like the first hand experience of a client in my situation, although no one who has responded seems to have had a similar experience to mine.

Anyway, I have an appointment with my therapist tomorrow and have decided to tell him of my feelings in a calm way that he will hopefully be able to handle. If he can't handle it well...I don't know what will happen because he has helped me immensely and could continue to do so despite this area of weakness on his part.

If the worst happens and he terminates with me, I know I will survive. Plus, I believe that expressing my feelings out loud will help reduce their hold over me so I can pursue attainable relationships in my life.

[nightfalls]

I hope that your appt. go's well and that you are able to resolve these issues and can continue to have a good therapy continuation with this therapist. take care

[Catmom]

Thanks so much for your kind wishes, forgeting. I told him this morning, but don't have time to go into details now. As is usual with my fears, the worst didn't happen & he didn't terminate with me. I'll post more later but I'm feeling pretty emotional right now. (More to come)

[Mark]

Catmom,

That is a very brave and good thing you've done - to free yourself from a secret you don't want, and a way to move forward. I'm sure it was emotional - how could it not be.

The trick now is to look past the emotion (shame? embarrassment? anger? whatever ...) and figure out what it is that caused you to fall for this man and what does that help you to know about yourself and your needs. Transference is a kind of mirror in that way. This sort of knowledge can help you make better choices outside the therapy room.

Mark

[Catmom]

Again, I just have a few minutes to say how I am feeling & plan to post more later. (You may have noticed I am pretty verbal ) Anyway, I was worried that I would be calling myself a complete fool after I confessed my feelings but so far that hasn't happened.

The main thing I am feeling is grief. Although my therapist is not terminating with me right away, my admission is moving me more quickly toward that ultimate outcome. He said that my feelings explained something he had been wondering about me for awhile. He was puzzled that although my recovery has been progressing by "leaps and bounds" (his words) I wasn't asking about termination myself. (As I guess most of his clients do at this point) Mostly, I have expressed fear that he was going to make me leave. He claims he never makes anyone leave but I can see him telling me that I can't see him more often than monthly, then every other month, etc.

I recently heard a recording of a Robert F. Kennedy speech given in Indianapolis the day of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassination and he quoted the Greek poet Aeschylus. When I heard it, I was driving calmly to work but the poignance of the words caused me to burst into tears.

Here is the poem:

Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.

Isn't that what grief is all about? We may fight. struggle, & claw to cling to everyone & everything in our lives, but everything is temporary, including life itself. That is the wisdom that comes against our will of which Aeschylus speaks.

Right now, the prospect of leaving my therapist just leaves an empty place in my life and I am heartbroken.

Catmom

(So much for the short post I had planned )

[Natalie]

I too find it very odd that the therapist would discourage the discussion of feelings. Thoughts and behaviors are linked to emotions (and vice versa). One of the ways that we know whether the therapy (CBT) is working is to monitor emotions. For instance, if a person is depressed, therapy is working if the negative mood lessens and a positive mood increases. Or, if a person is anxious, the therapy is working if anxiety lessens. I would ask about this.

That being said, CBT is a goal oriented and focused form of therapy. Particularly if the therapist has a limited number of sessions (due to insurance, or your ability to pay for a limited number of sessions) to help you, he or she will steer you toward working on the goals at hand. So, it may seem that you are not getting to spend entire sessions exactly how you want. This usually doesn't mean, though that you can't bring up issues that don't fit "the plan". Typically, there is time at the beginning or end of the session to bring up new issues.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Catmom]

Did my last post suggest that my therapist discourages the expression of feelings? :confused:

At the agency I go to, there is no limit to how many sessions I can have and fees are on a sliding scale & quite reasonable. The only reason I would have to terminate is if my therapist himself insists, which he says he never does.

I still have my doubts about this. Is the fact that I am so attached a reason to continue therapy or do I just need to "suck it up" & bear the pain of leaving?

I am suspecting that this therapist views my transference a separate, pesky issue and as long as I not gambling or indulging in some other addiction, I should terminate. I will ask him about this directly.

I sure wish I didn't have to feel this way.

[Catmom]

I did ask my therapist directly if he viewed my transference feelings as just a pesky issue that is irrelevant as long as I am not engaging in my addiction(s). He said that he does not view it that way but sees it as part of my "awakening" from many years of addiction (I have also abused prescription drugs in the past).

I cut myself off from almost all relationships for many years and am now building and rebuilding healthy ones with friends and family.

I believe I did the right thing in admitting my feelings but can only hope that it will result in my finding deeper connections with appropriate people in my life. Right now, I just hurt.

[Catmom]

I saw my T for the first time today since my confession of my feelings for him two weeks ago. In the session, I felt less emotionally connected to him than usual, which I guess is a good thing. The grief process about this continues. What I have learned about grief (both my parents and a brother are gone) is that it comes in waves. I can feel relatively okay about a loss & then something will hit me & I will start crying. This is the process that has been ongoing in me for the last two weeks at least.

It will take me some time before I can stop hanging on to this relationship--he has been my nearly constant internal companion for over 3 years and has helped me improve my life more than I ever could have dreamed. Really.

One really surprising thing that I found out was that although he has had other clients admit feeling "transference" for him, he has NEVER had one come back after "confessing."

I suspect that the previous confessor(s) may have blurted out something about wanting to have sex with him & then were horribly embarrassed. Of course, I have had such thoughts & he knows it but I don't need to be vulgar about it or draw him a picture. He is certainly bright enough to connect the dots.

He said he wants us to terminate "the right way," whatever that means. I asked him flat out if he knows what he is doing given that I am the first client ever to come back after admitting such feelings for him. He said he does. (He also says he doesn't know how long this will take--I almost felt like I was asking how long I was going to live when I asked that one).

I have trusted him with my deepest thoughts & feelings up to now & it has worked out so I will try to continue to trust. I am just scared that my life could go back to where it was when I started seeing him. I was in hell, no two ways about it.

I know that the pain I am feeling is inevitable. I didn't go to therapy to move in for life. This helps me to accept what is at times the agony of letting go.

Thanks for all your support.

Carol

[Anne Onymous]

Catmom

I read of your struggle and have every sympathy.

I just wanted to offer my support as someone who is also dealing with a crushing transference issue with my therapist - you may have read some of my posts elsewhere. I have started a weblog at http://lifelovingtherapy.blogspot.com/ to both vent my feelings and with the hope that by relaying my experinces it will help others. Transference can be such a painful experience and the knowledge that it is a one-way street can make one feel so rejected and helpless. I talked with my therapist about it again last night when I saw her and she tried to reassure me that she loved me very much and did not distinguish between her feelings for people in sessions to those outside of her work. It was just that she didn't love me in the same way. She said my loving wasn't wrong though and never would be - just that she did not love me in the same way as I loved her.

I am not sure this helped. It was almost like the fact that she loved me did not matter because she did not want to be with me in the way that I wanted to be with her. I never thought I would discuss these feelings with her, but I am finding that I need to more and more. I think it helps - and I am sure it will help in the long run - but right now it feels so hard - like a massive slap in the face; like there is something wrong with me because she does not want me. The feelings of rejection are sometimes overwhelming.

I hope you manage to resolve your feelings for your therapist and that he is understanding and helps you reconcile things in your own mind, so that you are left at peace with yourself. I have so much respect for you in the way that you have successfully dealt with your previous problems through the therapy - that must have been so hard for you.

I wish you every success in reconciling this last issue with your therapist - if you ever need to talk or just to vent steam even, I am here.

Best wishes

Anne

[Catmom]

In the month and a half or so that I have had to process my eventual termination with my therapist, the pain has been excruciating at times. As I indicated in a previous post, I am going through what I deem to be a normal grief reaction to letting go of this relationship.

I am fortunate in that my therapist has never in any way acted as though I were "special" to him. This is in contrast to others' experiences that I have read about on this site and others in which the so-called professional is/was using the vulnerable client to meet his own needs. I say "his" because this seems to happen more often with a female client and a male therapist. I have been appalled to read of therapists touching and kissing clients, etc.

These sorts of actions were at one time a component of my fantasies about my therapist. However, I am relieved to report that my simply telling him of my "transference" helped these feelings and thoughts diminish a great deal.

Even at the height of my sexual attraction to my therapist, I am convinced that had he ever done anything inappropriate, I would have run like hell. :eek:

As far as "working through" these emotions, I am pretty much on my own. My therapist is excellent in doing what I call the "Mr. Spock thing" of talking about facts but he is not very good with feelings, in my experience. He absolutely does not encourage me to talk in any detail about my feelings for him. In an ideal world, he would be able to handle my transference but I guess I can't have everything. Truly, I feel so fortunate to have found someone who is a match for me intellectually and verbally.

As I may have mentioned before, I carefully considered acting out one or more of my addictions in order to stay in treatment. When I saw him last I said: "I refuse to destroy my life for a fantasy." His response was "Isn't that what addiction is?" That is, destroying one's life for a fantasy.

I will so miss our conversations...

[Catmom]

I forgot to add in my last post that I could feel rejected & not attractive enough because my therapist does not return my feelings, but one of the things I have learned in therapy is that very, very few things are personal. I know that even if I were the embodiment of my therapist's dream of the ideal woman (which I assuredly am not), he would never respond to me other than as a professional.

There is no client for whom he would destroy a 30+ year marriage and a career. Period. That is the reality and is irrelevant to my attractievness as a woman. I hope this has given you some help, Anne.