Guest GingerSnap Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 So as not to derail the other thread on this subject since they seem to be working it out, I have some thoughts on such. To me, co-dependency which is enabling - I looked it up - is overused as a concept. Best I could figure was that it makes the person with a dysfunction feel a little better and you a little worse because you have been enabling the dysfunctional behavior by just being present. Told my husband if I am dysfunctional by association "Be gone." - Well, he doesn't believe the co-dependent for everything either. The other thing is the "Put yourself first" theory of life. My husband has practiced that. I chose putting God first, family - second, many others third and then myself. Who do you think is happier and finds more joy in life? I have an opinion on everything and well, those "feel good" theories just drive me up the wall. Being taken advantage of is an entirely different animal and is not related to serving God or putting God first and I will always believe that in treating people the way you want to be treated that you will not go wrong and often in treating them the way I would want to be treated, it involves a "Get Your Head Out Of Your Butt", tough love treatment and not just a roll over on my back and let them step all over me. Another rant about the "feel good" stuff. You'll feel good by doing the "right" thing - never let them steal your joy or you know you are headed in the wrong direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 While growing up, putting others first was not something to question...it was understood. My oldest brother is autistic and so this was necessary. I don't think the fact that I often want to put others first was what had a negative impact on me in the past, though. I think what hurt me was not allowing myself to feel good about doing it. I had some deep, ingrained belief that allowing myself the joy was selfish...in a very negative way. Unforgivable and such...Acting for others in the hopes of gaining their approval or fearing their disapproval is a different matter altogether, I think. But, for me personally, when I give to others, I'm giving to myself as well. I don't need to do it to feel good about myself. I feel good about myself because I know I have the capacity for it. I really think there is a distinction there in that and the distinction is in potential and desire rather than a suffering need.Enabling? Well, my H was a drinker for years and I was afraid to confront him until one night when I took notice of the way my son looked at him. That's when I finally gathered up the courage to say no more of this. I think perhaps all along I'd feared that I couldn't possibly be more important to him than the bottle. He hasn't had a drink in over 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianP Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) deleted..... Edited February 7, 2010 by JulianP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ASchwartz Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Hi JP and everyone,I agree and that is why I often point out in a half humorous and half serious way that 'selfishness" has been given a bad name. If we do not take care of ourselves first, how can we care for others and if not now, when?Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 We care for others through the strength that God gives us and find joy in being able to give. I just do the "right" thing and no one steals my joy - it's simple and the inner child, which is out 90% of the time, insists on the "joy" part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 How healthy is it for a daughter, for example, to have an impression of motherhood or even of womanhood by having a role model who is constantly sacrifincing, denyied, exhausted, unfulfilled, and who's health and well being is expected to be unimportant or suffer as a result of being a woman or a mother. That was basically me and my mother. Except maybe for the unfulfilled and unimportant part...Things are not always so easily defined, though. I think, for her, this was the only way to keep her family together and so she did it without question. It was indeed very painful for me to see her suffering silently when she thought others were not watching. But I was always watching. It is the very reason why now I still have a tendency to internalize the pain of others. Everyone's pain goes back to hers and what I was too powerless back then to soothe. I always respected and admired her tremendously and tried to model myself after her. I've come a long way with the word "selfish", but am perhaps still not perfect with it. To put oneself first at the expense of others would still not be acceptable to me. To put oneself first for the benefit of everyone would be much more acceptable in my eyes.The thing with "co-dependency" that always was so painful was the notion that giving to others was somehow bad for me or "wrong". It might hurt me if I was losing myself to do it. But I really believe it to be the opposite. When I give, I discover myself...and I find a little piece of my mother as well. That was her gift to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianP Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) deleted..... Edited February 11, 2010 by JulianP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) In the end, we all reap what we sow. Being used really isn't about putting anyone first, it is about inappropriately trying to be appreciated and loved. Putting your wants and desires above the needs of loved ones will always be selfish and leave you unfulfilled, in my opinion. Keeping God first in my life will always be essential and me and God aren't the same from I come from. And, Irma Jean: you are so lucky to have a husband that would give up something that was bad for the family and I truly mean that but many, probably most, aren't that lucky but maybe you will inspire someone to take that chance - I took it and lost. Edited October 30, 2009 by GingerSnap I decided it was a hopeless argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer2 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 if we reap what we sew. then why is it that i have given everything i have to offer even to the "co dependent" level and lies, cheating, and uncaring back from people i love? i havent expected someone to give me the world. my expectations are healthy. treat me how you want to be treated is what i expect. im not a liar, or cheater. im very compassionate, loyal, and always there for people no matter what. i love completely, wholy, and unconditionally. i always am eager to meat there needs and wants. i say and show threw my actions that they are wanted, appreciated, loved, and adored. they can count on me to be there, to show them how i feel, and yes i do go overboard with these. if i love someone there is almost nothing i wont do for them. i admit i usualy compromise far more than they have. i am willing to give up almost anything for them. so why do i get my heart ripped out every time i make myself vulnerable? they all have said to everyone that im 1 of a kind, absolutely amazing, treat them better than they have ever been treated, that im am just wonderful in every way. even sexually they tell everyone im amazing. i make them feel things they never thought possible in every way conversation, sex, romance, personality, respect, trust, honesty, the list goes on and on. that i am better than what they had dreamed of. im better than the man of there dreams. they tell there friends and family how great and wonderful i am then rip my heart out and tell me i deserve better. they all regret letting me go and would like to try again but i wont because they cheated on me. they say im to good for them and they dont know how to handle being loved and treated so well. thats why they do those things. that is how i am. i love completely, and unconditionally. so then tell me please what is the problem? why do i get gutted? do i love wrong? and as far as the different types and back grounds of these woman and the places we meat. there all different but its the same result. im 35 they have been from 2 years younger to 10 years older. professional to none professional to disabled to well off. even different parts of the country. in recovery and not in recovery. highly educated to not much education. single to divorced. all do have children and most have unhealthy relationships with them and have been in unhealthy relationships and marriages.so tell me what im doing wrong. i thought co dependency was a problem but i dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I didn't see this before. Julian P. has been helping you with this. There are people that just use people. Why? Because they are selfish and looking for someone to use. I always hear about setting boundaries in a relationship and maybe you need to decide how you WILL be treated and enforce that. Discuss it. This is how I expect to be treated in a relationship, how to do you feel about that and how do you expect to be treated or words to that effect. When it starts to go off track if talking about it doesn't correct it, what consequence will you have in place? Will you end the relationship or stay, keep trying to fix it from only your side and suffer? I really don't have the answers. I see people being taken advantage of all the time. Talking to them does no good. I keep hammering into my head to my husband the Golden Rule "Treat others as you want to be treated." Well, he doesn't do that but is working on it. Most people don't live by that rule unfortunately. Don't be so desperate for a relationship that you sell your soul to have one. Where do you meet these women? If you are sold on the Golden Rule, you might try a traditional church setting or groups - one of those old religions not those new, hyped up ones, try the library, some place other than Party-party. I would definitely just stay away from relationships for awhile and spend some time thinking about what I really wanted and where I was going with my life. I am sorry that I don't have more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) i am willing to give up almost anything for them.I read an article once about giving. It illustrated the point that allowing yourself to receive from others actually invites them to care for you. People often feel good about themselves when they give to others. But if you were doing all of the giving in these relationships perhaps you didn't allow your partners the gift of giving. I believe one very important aspect in any relationship is balance. Just a thought... Edited November 4, 2009 by IrmaJean adding another thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer2 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 true 50/50 is how it is supposed to work. maybe i do do that. makes since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Are you looking for a long term commitment? Seems like there have been several partners? Maybe you give yourself "completely" too soon. There is something kind of undesirable about someone that seems desperate, just is. I think you are investing too much in these women and should hold off until you have someone that is a potential mate - long term, someone you know well enough to be vulnerable with and I would not think that would be several women. There will be someone who won't take advantage of you out there and a whole bunch of somebodies that can't wait for someone to take advantage of. I would slow down on "giving" myself away, maybe make them work a little, be giving of themselves before getting so invested in a relationship that allows them to rip your heart out. Very, very few people follow the Golden Rule anymore. Irma Jean has a good point and good insight - I always like her posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer2 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 there have been very few women that i have been "involved with" i have only been with 9 sexually in my life and 4 were long term so to speak. I havent been looking for anything honestly. The last 2 just kinda fell into place and out also. I actually hesitated for a time before investing in the last 1. we had become friends over several months very good friends. she had invested into me a wile before i finally said yes to a relationship. we knew more about each other than anyone else knows. everything in the beginning was done right from what counselors and books and friends and family say. she had a very emotional situation come up for her and things went sour. Because she was experiencing pain i did give more a lot more than she did. thats probably the problem. the first several months were great then the bump came. Was it too soon? i dont know. Did i give completely? yes. I do know this woman and her actions were not like her at all. I guess it wasent ment to be is all i can think of. i have only given that deeply 1 other time and know that before the bump she had given just as deeply. I do know addictive behavior very well. i firmly believe that is what happened to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 What about a permanent situation? Is it possible that some of the women expected a permanent situation with you and when it didn't happen, they drifted away? If you aren't looking for something permanent, then wouldn't you expect them to drift away? What do you see for your future as far as relationships? Ok, looking for a wife or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer2 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 with these women when i committed it was for hopes of a permanent situation by both. it was talked about in detail. no rush to marriage but working to a point of considering that. everything was mutually agreed upon as the goal of the relationship. the plans and what was wanted and needed were very clear to both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GingerSnap Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 OK, have you read this article on the main part of this website:http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/center_index.php?id=289&cn=289 and you might look over "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil (yes, I like Dr. Phil) just to get some ideas. Somewhere it is just breaking down I am thinking with expectations of the relationship. My best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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