I feel anxious

[sadgreeneyes]

I married a virgin ( he´s not in my country yet) and right after marriage my husband showed no affection and even tried to avoid making love to me saying it was he was afraid being a virgin. I have never experienced any affection from him during the 3 weeks I visited him. Never kissed me or hold me saying he doesnt know about intimacy. His words are so non affectionate, like saying he could sleep in another room as the bedroom was little to put one more bed in there,but there are good enough space for one more bed, we can take it away in daytime. I feel he does everything to avoid me. I think he with purpose not even txt me on phone simply because he doesnt care texting. Saying its the phone company when I can txt him and him not me and opposite, suddenly when its about UDI for visa then he txted me in a second,so I dont believe him.

My problem is that I feel frightened being intimate with him when he comes here because I feel he doesnt want me,so I feel emotionally scared or numb, scared to touch him or hug him, I am scared about everything because I have been so turned off by his words and his broken promises about affection before we married. Feel I want to escape, I feel a really bad feeling inside of me, I think it is hurt. I feel like my natural affection is being blocked as I cannot freely show any affection to him because of what he has done and said to me. I feel scared of him and hurt.

I dont have any specific question, I just wonder will this change, if so it must be from him showing me affection,I cannot show him affection before he does, I just cant. And should I tell my husband how I feel? I have told him before many times I need affection and he say everything will be fine, but now lately I have started to feel distant and detached from him because I feel he doesnt love me. I feel hurt and I feel bugged thinking abut this and his behavior and words, if I imagine I should be in same room with him now I would feel helpless and numb wanting to go to my own place because there I know I wont feel this way.

The same day we married, in the evening, he said he doesnt want to make love with me, saying he said it because he was scared performing, but it did hurt me so much and I think it has deeply wounded me some way.

And just to add I am afraid to tell him because I am afraid if he is an abuser he will use this against me, telling an abuser you are scared is not what you want to do.

I also start to think I doesnt want to touch him or anything,not because I really doesnt want, but because he has made a feeling in me that makes me feel bad about this.

I know I am raving about different feelings here, after thinking a while now I think I fear him, scared or fear is maybe same meaning but I do fear him too.

[sadgreeneyes]

Well, I did tell him tonight, it was difficult for me to speak, but it did go fine, he understood so hopefully everything will be ok. I am glad he understood my anxiety or fear. Not that it made me any more secure in him about the situation but at least he knows how I feel about it. He knew it was him, the man, who had to take the first step. So I just have to wait and see what will happen:rolleyes:

[randomperson]

Glad you are feeling better about things.

I read one post I think from Linda that changed how I look at things.

She posted how her therapist did something that hurt her very deeply.

She was about to get very upset and just leave (a trait I share lol)

But she stopped. She went and talked it out.

Turns out there was a communication issue. Then she posted something pretty deep. That often many of the fights we have with others is all about not understanding each other, a break down in communication.

Either someone is hurting, or there are some differences that one or both parties don't understand.

At the time I was freaking a little from my girl acting strange and ignoring me.. sure you remember Then turned out she is suffering from emotional issues as well.. just as much as me. Exactly the same sort of issue Linda had communication problem causing the main issue itself.

Made all the difference to me and really drove the lesson home. It is helping me grow in my relationships with other people more.

I have such a bad tendency to jump to conclusions. Often things I think is meant to hurt me was not about hurting me at all.

[chatterbox512]

Sadgreeneyes

If he was not behaving like this would you want to be intimate with him, now? Based on everything he has put you through thusfar, would you still want intamacy from him if he changed tomarrow or would you still be afraid of him? I worry about that fact that he is out of this country and you are still afraid of him, so how do you think this will change when he comes home?

How long have you been married to this guy? Was he distant like this before he left and before you married?

I was not "with" my husband the night of my wedding either but it was a mutual decision. I don't think that is a necessity and is to much of an expectation to start your marriage off immediately, the night of your wedding. (Just my opinion) But we didn't wait long either.

Are you happy not "feeling loved"? Do you really think that your husband will change now that you have honestly talked to him? What do you plan to do if he doesn't change his behavior? I know these are tough questions to answer but being honest with yourself about these issues is what "loving you" is all about. It is imporatant to take care of yourself over any one else (Tyra Banks just said that on her show )

[sadgreeneyes]

I am sorry I am late responding and thank you both for replying to me. It is like this, he contacted me on cam on myspace and just after 1 week he proposed, I got little surprised as it was way to early to ask a nearly stranger to marry, but I did say yes as I thought we should stay in his country, then I would be sure he wasnt out for visa, but after a couple of weeks he talked like we must stay in my country as he couldnt provide for a family down there. I know this is true as he has very low salary. But done was done, I had said yes, so I went down to Jordan after 7 weeks and married him, I stayed there for these 17 days and on the later on the wedding day when we were alone he made up a false story not to be with me, when he knew understood he was lying he changed saying : ok, lets say I doesnt want to make love with you, and he said this out on the street because I was leaving in pain being hurt,then he say: ok the truth is I am afraid performing, but he only made love to me because I was leaving. The way he said it was far from a nice way, he said it very harsh and it sounded like when someone abuses someone with purpose, he even had a grin on his face saying ok I´m not afraid anymore now. I could swear I saw the face of a man who found it amusing seeing me hurt. Because he had this grin. But we did go back into the flat and we made love even it was far from what I call love making as he didnt show any affection, it was so cold and he looked like he had committed a crime thinking what has he done. Like he was unfaithful.

He say all will be fine, today he said again not everybody show affection, kiss and hold each other in marriage, I say get real! I told him if they dont then it is because love has faded away. Every man wants to have passion with his wife. He said all will be fine and that I dont push him to anything, he wants it himself too.

If he didnt say those words down in Jordan I would not be so scared of him,I would not feel so intense about this, I would still be little scared as I want to see does my husband want this, but I think that his words was the thing that made the outcome, because he said it so bad with no caring voice, lets say you hear a man say : "ok, lets say I hate you", can you feel the words even they are only written here?? if you can this is how my husband said those words to me ok, lets say I dont want to make love to you. And when we are about to make love he can not kiss me or hold me,I had to ask him 5 times if he could hold me, only when I said I will not make love anymore he would,but he did for two short minutes. I think its not strange this wounded me deeply. We talked about this today too, I asked him for the first time why he didnt try to hold around me or be close to me the whole time down there and he tells me it is because not all arabs do that,come on! How come he fly right at me the first night down there holding his hands around my waist pushing himself up against me and 15 minutes later pressuring me to do some sexual stuff for him, cannot be so innocent. It doesnt make sense. Or do you think he really was that scared to perform, that ths really is the reason? He say I will see when he comes here,so I guess I just have to trust that, because I have said to him seriously that I "will" divorce him if he cannot show me affection and passion. He didnt seem too surprised but he looked little nervous, but he said he knew it has to be like I say.

After all I didnt want a man in the first place as I have met only abusive men but now I am here and if he shows out to not be affectionate then he can go home to his own country,I told him this.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Sadgreeneyes,

I believe you are living in the U.S. or a similar democratic country. Its an important assumption because if he is not fulfilling his marital sexual duties it is grounds for a quick divorce. I know you fear intimacy but, I suspect this is not your problem but his. He is not helping you feel safe with making love and he is not helping you feel safe with him. If you do not feel safe with him, then something is wrong and you sense it. I do not mean I believe he is abusive, I don't know him, I just mean he makes you feel unsafe and regardless of your past history, I would expect he would make you feel safe, he does not and that means there is something wrong with him, and not you. Use your emotions as "radar."

Allan

[sadgreeneyes]

Thank you Allan for replying to me,

its is so true what you say, if he cannot fulfill his sexual duties as a husband there is good reason for divorce, this is even stated in Islam religion and still he talk like he does. And divorce will happen very fast, that is true too, and I have told him this and that he should not underestimate me. I live in Norway and I married in Jordan and I am not sure how easy it will be for me to divorce if he should refuse, but I believe that I in my country can demand a divorce without having to have anything to Sharia law to do. I feel I have to get all info about divorce already now as I am afraid I will be to late if I start months after he comes here.

Its not that I am afraid of intimacy, have never been,but this man has made me feel afraid of him because he wounded me so much with his words and that he still continue feeding me with saying not all arabs do that, that is just BS. I can believe that if its arranged marriage between cousins as they dont have the chemistry that people who fall in love have. But we are not related and he should know that all people who marry this way marry because of love, affection and chemistry. He has said he knows this so its really annoying he continue saying all these asexual things, I have even asked him before is he gay, but he´s not he say. And I mentioned again to him that if he cannot show passion there is something wrong or he is gay. He say he will do everything here and that I will see. But I have a feeling that he thinks he can manipulate me when he comes here or think he can underestimate me.I have told him clearly that he he shouldnt. I am really disappointed how he talk to me and underestimate me with his words already and before I came there he told me all he would do, that I should lay on his arm and all, like real lovers do and when I come he doesnt let me lay on his arm.I hope it is because he was virgin, but would a virgin fly right at a woman and pressure her for sexual stuff first night, that seems odd to me? pressure someone is abusive,but I hope it was because he maybe was to eager as he said he was.

But wasnt much eager to make love,maybe he was scared,but anyway it hurted me and made me scared. I have told him this so I hope he wants the same as me or I will divorce. He will not ever find a woman if he thinks she accept a man who cannot show her affection and passion.

It will be hard to divorce him if I have to, but think maybe love will die fast if hes´like that,no one can live like that, he say he knows that too. I just dotn understand why he continue saying so many turn off words, asexual things and yet at same time say he knows there needs to be affection and chemistry. To me it seems very odd.

[sadgreeneyes]

Its true something is wrong with him and not me, its just that I dont know what is wrong with him. He himself say nothing is wrong with him and nothing is wrong with me and that things will change and be fine. I just dont believe it.

I was laying awake into early morning, I had burning pain in my heart and shed some tears as it still really hurts and I cannot seem to forget his words. I hear his tone of voice how he said it and it has wounded me. I still find it difficult to see myself being affectionate towards him as it will bring back those negative feelings. I tried to imagine him "wanting" to kiss me and be intimate but then I got negative feelings too. I get feelings of disgust for him when I imagine us being intimate, why do I do that? my only thought is that it must come from the negative energy/feelings associated with him. I feel like I have been put trash on. All he say is so a big turn off for me that I just feel disgust about it all.

Do you think that him not making me feel safe is the only reason why I feel like this? because other men has abused me,but they havent said those cruel words so have never felt like trash or not wanted( even they didnt want me out of love) because I knew they were abusive anyway and didnt love me. But this man say he loves me,but treated me like trash.

Another thing is that I know that he is lying saying all the turn off words as he has stated before I went down to see him all he would do. He knew all about intimacy and when I come down he just take a 100% turnaround acting dumb. I know he is lying. His excuse for not touching me down there and be close was that not all arabs do that, But before I come he say all about intimacy. Its just another reason to be disgusted when he is lying to me too. I know I sound upset, but I am too, I dont understand my husband as he doenst give me one honest answer that make sense.

[randomperson]

I am sorry you are going through so much.

Maybe I can help being an older virgin

A lot of the problems are likely tied to who he is rather than being a virgin.

If I was married I would be nervous..very nervous but very anxious lol.

But that is me.. not everyone thinks the same. I will say it is difficult being a virgin for so long. You start to develop emotional issues tied to it.

It is a personal question and you don't have to answer unless you want, but how long did you know him before you got married?

I'm not sure what he is going through, but I wouldn't call him gay.

There was a time in high school where women were attracted to me but I was hurting emotionally.. withdrawing from everyone.. and people called me that as an insult. It only made me withdraw more.

If you are talking to a counselor I suggest asking for advice. It seems like being far away it is causing you both a lot of stress and mixed emotions. You need to be able to both communicate your concerns and worries in a healthy way.. which I know personally is very difficult.. as I type this I struggle with it myself.

[chatterbox512]

Hello Sadgreeneyes,

I just have one question for you. You say that you can't feel intimate for your husband. Are you going to beable to relax that enough to embrace the idea of the possibility when he does come back? If you are not able to do that, and have shut your intimacy off to him, than is is worth waiting for him to come home? If you are still angry and bitter with him when he comes home, you will not enjoy making love to him anyway, and that will in turn make your feelings toward him worse. Do you really believe that things will change when he comes home, do you believe what he says, since he has hurt you so much already?

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi both of you and thanks for trying to help, I will be open to him of course but he must come to me first, he knows this as I´ve told him he´s made me scared, that he has made me scared doesnt seem to bother him too much, he just say he knows. But at least he say he understand. He said the less I mention this intimacy talk the better he will feel,so maybe I stress him. But anyway I find his behavior very suspicious, he proposed after knowing me for 1 week and we married after 7 weeks ( hugh red flag of an abuser,but I thought islam culture was different, its not as I´ve asked Dr.Sam Vaknin), when he made a 100% turnaround not showing any affection as he said he would it makes me think he´s out for visa. I cannot know before he´s here and this is the most hard for me, to not know. But when I said I dont want to make love with him if he cannot be affectionate then he said nooo. He didnt want me to not want to make love with him, so that again shows that he must want me too. Or he´d be happy I just left him alone.

I have a few theories about him,

1. he might be an abuser as he manipulated me to do oral sex before we got married as he had promised we would wait. I know this is abusive,but may be because he was eager and virgin. But I doubt a virgin act abusive without actually "being" abusive. I have just read about passive aggressive men who withhold affection and sex in marriage because they are unable to express their anger and how this affect the victim. I can say that I have about all the symptoms of the after effects of such abuse/also includes verbal abuse. I dont say he "is" abusive, but the way I have started to lose my self confidence and hope lately, it is something I need to consider and if this is the case I need to be aware and protect myself from more harm. As he has harmed me already. Love doesnt harm. Abuse harms.

2. It can be he only was a very insecure virgin, but this alternative comes in the fog as its not likely at all a virgin would manipulate his soon to be wife for oral sex. Then he would be an abusive virgin,but then again, abusers are never virgins as they have had numerous relationships. So its extremely hard to know what is the truth here.

3. He has some very deep personal issues, like you guys are saying here,he can be scared of intimacy as he was a virgin, he might have got panic. If this is the case he needs to realize he needs to be open and talk about it,but that seems to fail as he doesnt want to talk. And the more I try to make him talk the more annoyed he gets. To me he is a nut case.

So only thing left to do is to see if he can keep his words, he did hurt me again yesterday saying let things happen naturally ( which I agreed) but at the end of the conversation he said once again let things happen naturally without promise, he didnt want to promise affection passion, so again he left me feeling hurt, confused and scared. Why continue hurting me making me insecure, anxious and sad when he knows he already has? This is why I can see him as the passive aggressive man. I am aware that I am not the same person as I was, my self esteem is fading away and my hopes are slowly dying, my spirit isnt being nourished,but diminished.

[randomperson]

I am sorry that this is so tough on you right now.

It sounds like you got married pretty fast. How long were you together before you had to leave?

I might be wrong but it sounds like you both are learning more about each other. I wouldn't worry about getting close to him, if he loves you a little 'tempting' on your part and honest I don't see that being an issue.

On the other hand it does seem like there are other things going on.

It seems like you are in a very similar issue with the woman I often talk about.

He seems to back away when you try to get closer and sends many mixed signals.

It is confusing and frustrating to you.. I know because the same exact thing is happening to me.

You think one week that it is over there is no hope, then something happens that gives you a reason to hope and believe it will work out. It leaves you in a state of limbo and creates an odd type of pain that can't be healed.

For me trying to explain things especially how you are feeling only makes it worse and makes them withdraw more... sounds like it is the same for you.

My mother told me something I think is right and I am trying to accept.

Things are what they are. The words she used was "I don't want to get your hopes up or take them totally away" "I think you have to decide if you want [her] in your life as she is not knowing how she truly feels and knowing she has problems, and if you do to coast (not to worry or be anxious) as she is not going to change who she is"

You do have one huge advantage over my situation it sounds like you both are communicating pretty good. I would use this time to really get to know him. Learn who he is, if he is who you thought when you got married.

It is so tough being far away. I know for me if I was with her in person just a few months I would know what she felt without a doubt. I think above all that is what frustrates me the most.

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi randomperson,

thank you for posting to me, I was with him 17 days, after 5 days down there we married. Maybe I make him feel bad as he feel not good enough, he may feel sorta pressured to perform without having gotten there naturally yet. But there are no excuses for him to discount me and the intimacy. I try not to say anything loving at all because I am scared he hates it and neither do I say anything sexually anymore...even its something positive I dont...as he doesnt show any affection back, now he has said it was because he was in the internet cafe and that its different now when I´m his wife as the other could hear what he said to me, because the men in the cafe would talk and it wasnt good. Ok,I can agree in that,but find it strange he could talk little dirty with me or affectionate with me when I wasnt married to him. He didnt care them listening then, why not? I´m the same person:confused:

Funny when you say it..because...abusers are not only discounting their mates feelings,but they are also known for giving mixed signals and they withdraw from getting closer to their mate/spouse. Abusers do this because they are afraid of intimacy. So I´m not sure..does he do this because he is virgin, for visa or is it because he´s an abuser. If he´s out for visa then he´s an abuser anyway as a healthy person would never use anyone like that. There are lots of signs of an abuser and there are lots of signs he´s "not" an abuser so really I dont know,it can be extremely hard to spot an abuser. The biggest sign of an abuser when it comes to what he has done is he pressured me to do that stuff, this "is" abusive. I just have yet to know him as you say I should try, but the problem is that I have tried asking him how he see things, how marriage should be but he doesnt want to give any answers, he say we will get to know each other when he comes here. I dont understand why he is not willing to let us know each other better now, he is a nut case, no matter how I try to get under his skin, to get to know him, he do of course say he loves me and misses me and that he needs me the same way I need him, but he refuses to promise this affection and passion, kissing holding stuff, this is what he hates hearing about and it shouts "something is terrible wrong" as he should love doing this.

So randomperson, even it seems like we communicate somehow we actually dont, yeah we do communicate but that is only because I start and he probably feel he has too talk as to not seem totally uninterested, thing is he only wants to talk about daily stuff.

Today I txt him seriously saying that he needs to understand that I cannot be with him if he cant promise love and affection, I told him my love is dying with the words he say,told him if you love someone then people "do" promise,they "do" want to see each other no matter what and that they will make the other person feel "safe", I told him I am suppose to be his wife and that I needed him to love me with all him but that I could not "hear" his love for me. Yes he say he txts me every day but the messages doesnt come through, and again, today, when I txt about stuff like this the phone is working perfectly, it was the same last time,so I only get more proof he can txt me but he doesnt. He responded saying baby we will talk tomorrow, didnt give me one txt where he comforted me in any way. And I am very sure he tomorrow again will talk the same as always, what can he do and we have to wait, he just listen to me but that is all I feel. I know that much.. till now in my life.. that if you really love your spouse you will do anything to meet your loved ones emotional needs, you would work with her/him not against her/him.

[randomperson]

It sounds like we share many of the same relationship problems. He is not opening up like the woman I am talking to is not opening up. When that happens you just end up scratching your head wondering what you can do.

Do you really know him?

Did he pressure you into marriage?

Seems you are in the same spot I am in unsure what is going on or what part you play as far as love goes.. I so wish I knew what to suggest.. I would do it myself lol.

I think the first question you must ask yourself is if you love him.. deeply love him despite everything you are learning. Everything else hinges on that.

[sadgreeneyes]

I can so relate to you how you feel about the woman you are talking about, as it is extremely painful to not get the safety and love you need. There needs to be two working on a relationship/marriage and if the one doesnt seem to be willing to share him/herself then there is something terrible wrong. The one who is willing to work can try and be patient for a good period of time,but there will come a time where you just get too tired trying, you lose your hope, energy and vitality, you lose hope for happiness. You simply lose yourself. You will get depressed and sad and live every day with hurt and in pain. I am there now, I have sleepless nights and have even had suicide thoughts, I nearly died once and waking up again after 1 hour to see the light was a very weird feeling so even I have had thoughts I learned that no one is worth dying for. If you die there wont be any tomorrow, you wont see how the next day will turn out, not know how your future would be and never know if there would come any happiness into your life later, there wont be any birds singing and no sun to shine and the worst of all how terrible to leave your loved ones behind. I lost one brother in suicide. I´m sorry rambled here now..I lost it little..

But if you are in a relationhsip or specially if you are newly wed there is something really wrong if the husband/wife doesnt seem to want to kiss or hold. The marriage can contain a form of love, but it wont be "that kind of love"and without chemistry and the intimacy that holds a married couple together it will never work.

He didnt pressure me into marriage actually, but I tried to postpone it as he turned around saying we need to stay in my country, I said yes because we should be in his country, so I feel he fooled me as I would never say yes if I knew this, as I know many of them are out for visa. So he said I couldnt postpone it as he had waited so long now, yeah waited so long, for what, for visa?? not for me as he had waited 5 weeks, so I can wonder what he meant with saying that even he said it was for me. No one has waited long when 5 weeks. So he didnt pressure me,but didnt let me meet him one time first and then see how he was. He was very eager, saying we should marry about the same day I met him, didnt even want to wait 4-5 days,so he seemed very busy to get it over with.

I do love him of course I do...but I will not be in a marriage without affection and passion. If this is lacking in a relationship/marriage then love will soon wither and die. No marriages survives this way. Because you cant be happy with someone who doesnt love you. There is no love if theres lacking intimacy, affection and chemistry. You cant have a meaningful marriage with someone who doesnt want to share him/herself.

I think its important to take care of ourselves, if we have tried for a period of time and nothing seems to work, then I think the best is to leave the relationship or marriage. If the one partner cannot show affection then there is definitely something wrong, its not to be mistaken.

And then it comes back to abuse as many abusive relationships/marriages is exactly like that, they contain no affection or intimacy,only degrading and cold sex, as an object you will be treated and being hurt you will be frequently and you will be the only one trying to make it work as the other one is working against you with all his/her power. You will wonder why its so hard to make him/her understand, why its so hard to explain things,when in reality this is the reason, they work against you.

So this is why I chose to stop working, I let it up to him, let him do the work for a while here when he comes, see how he will be, will he change, if not its clear to me he doesnt love me.

[randomperson]

Very true words you speak. It is difficult.

You wonder what you are doing wrong when in fact it really isn't anything.

You wonder what you can do to make things better when it is up to them.

What can you say when there is no communication, no sharing of problems or how to fix them?

He is acting very strange. It isn't normal to want to marry someone that fast then have little interest in them. Is it possible he was wanting to marry you for the Visa?

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi randomperson,

how are you?,I hope you will feel better soon and that you somehow will find out what`s going on too..with your woman, as I do with my man. That is right...there isnt anything we can do if they doesnt want to work with us, that will only drain our energy, we cant make someone love us, but those who love us will work with us and stay with us, in our lives. I have a book " he´s just not that into you", a very good book actually, it tells so easily how things is about love, its not a struggle, there are no how and why this and maybe that because everything will be clear and easy. I know I struggle but I keep going on maybe because its worth it, maybe he is true and now we have come so far that it would be little silly to blow it off as I would never see is he true and I do love him too. Luckily I got to say to my husband today what he had said wrong, I said right out that I had only one thing to say and that was that if he couldnt promise me affection in our marriage then I had to leave him, as I told him this is a necessity for a marriage to work. It took a little while before he understood,maybe playing little dumb saying what do you want me to promise you?? I was surprised again how he can say things like that, but he said in the end that he hadnt meant it like that...that he couldnt promise me affection, so he said he do promise me affection.

I was relieved, but its very weird sometimes, he should know that "without promise" means "he doesn`t promise",there is no different meaning how to explain that, but I try to see it that way that maybe what he meant was that it will come naturally without "HAVING to promise". This is the only explanation I have for what he said. I am now very happy he said he didnt mean it like that as that would be the same as to say he doesnt love me. So he said he understood.

Not sure was he afraid losing the visa or me as I today said I would leave him...so may be he just said what I wanted to hear, as it this time was "surprisingly easy" for him to say what all people say to their loved ones, but I try to believe him and he might be who he say he is. I still have my guard up because I do know that people who are out for visa will say ANYTHING you want to hear to get it through. Before it has been sooo difficult getting him to show me or promise me affection, he´s been kinda acting dumb asking what do I mean what do I want, then say yes he understand and knows what I mean, then changing saying "without promise" and today again he say what do you want me to promise??? I refused to explain to him once again about a hundred times what I meant so I said strictly listen to me and said clearly right out I will leave him if he cant promise me love and affection...he talked soo easily saying yes he promise me affection. Again he had this little grin on his face after he was smiling/laughing, like it was amusing, I said to him its nothing to laugh of, he sad he wasnt laughing. So its very weird how he say it so easy now but before he was nearly refusing to even hear the word affection. So only time will tell from now on, it´ll be easy to see when he comes here. But yes he is acting weird.

[sadgreeneyes]

Just an after thought, if he was out for visa he would have been smart enough to not say things that makes me suspicious, he would work to make me safe and drop my guard. As he does opposite it points more in the direction 1. he´s an abuser as he say things and has done things that is abusive OR 2. he is not an abuser but actually has no clue what he´s saying, but I doubt the latter.

Unless he is even smarter and work opposite ( in between) of what fraudsters do as he may believe I know enough to spot one. Anyway if he was out for visa...to make me suspicious would be the dumbest to do as he could risk me leaving the whole thing.

[randomperson]

Thank you for asking how I am. It seems we are tied into a very similar situation.. one that is not fun lol.

I have been around physical abusers most of my life. I know the way they act pretty good. He is acting very strange but not showing clear signs either way if he is abusive or not. I just can not say without knowing him more.

Honestly most of the times you won't know until they are very close to you. Early signs are if they start breaking or throwing things and start trying to isolate or control all aspects of your life.. and they won't start to do this until they think they have you.

As for the woman I am seeing I don't see anything changing anytime soon unfortunate as it is. Her sister says it is because she is working so much that she doesn't write a lot. ..Like you I just don't know. Are we being used, or are the people we love just hurting and stand offish.. who knows.. that is what is so frustrating.. When they see you backing away it is like your thrown a bone to keep you hoping.

Nathan suggested I start hanging out around more women. Get used to being around single women and talking to them. I'm not married, not even sure if I am dating her or not.. I do wonder at times if it is worth all the effort I am putting in, trying so hard to make it work, staying loyal. Seems like it is so one sided. I so want to tell her how I feel..but I know she is already having a hard time.. and if anything if she does love me it might drive her away more..

..I'm just so confused lately.. I wish I had more real answers to all the questions I have..

The only real answer I have is wait... and even on that I ask how and how long? lol

It is good that you made a bit of progress.. though like mine it seems to raise more questions than give answers.

[sadgreeneyes]

Hi randomperson,

you are so welcome:), yes you are right one doesnt see the abuse before they are with you and after a while when they think they have you. Like you I know how abusers operate as I´ve been in a couple abusive relationships/situations and I´ve read about everything I can come over about abuse in every way, but even how much we read its still so hard to spot one when one comes along. You can see there are signs but most of the time the person seems to be quite normal and that is the scary thing. I have to admit I will be very surprised if I have been able to be attracted to an opposite kind as I always have been attracted to the bad guys, but then without knowing they have been bad, many people think that it is the victim that finds and wants the abuser when the fact is that it is the abuser who finds the victim, they know how to find the vulnerable and the ones who they know or think will "put up with it". I see that my husband has the charm of an abuser, the superficial look,but many times he hasn´t this look, my gut say both about him, that is he is one and not one. Its just that I have always been right when I have fallen for an abuser, that he was one..you can kinda see it if you know what to look for, how they act, look and so on..but I really dont know until he´s here. He said though "you dont talk to ANYONE about me and you,as I have talked with another man about this. I guess its the islam culture why he got mad. So I understand that.

How much time do you spend together with this woman? does she say she wants a relationship?

Her working much shouldnt be stopping her from having a relationship if she wants it or have time. Have you asked her what she wants? if she say she doesnt know then I would suggest you could say to her ok you know where I am if you change your mind, then you can live your life without having to wait because you shouldnt need to wait for a woman, as if she wanted a relationship then she would say it, maybe you would meet someone else and if you did then that would be in your right as this woman didnt make a choice to be with you. You cannot go and wait for her if she cannot give you an answer what she wants, if she wants a relationship then she must find time for you or you would be feeling left out and that would not make you happy. Is work the only reason why it is like that with her?

Are you living far apart as she is writing to you sometimes? If I were you I would ask her to give you an answer, because you dont deserve to go and wait for someone who doesnt have time. I understand that hurts you a lot, I could never go through that as no one can have it like that for too long. I agree with Nathan, its good idea mingle around with other woman, I think it will be good for you.

It must be very sad so I mean you deserve so much more, so at least make her give you an answer. If she care about you she will come forward and not let you go.

[randomperson]

You are so kind to ask. I feel a little guilty talking about this so much on here.

Especially on a thread for you. Yes she is in another state and that is the problem.

I can't move to be with her because my mother is disabled. My mother refuses to move out of state nor even wants me to go on an actual vacation anymore (she says she would not be able to survive without help). Can't even talk to her about it without her going into a panic attack.

With the woman I am interested in she is going through custody with an abuser herself. He could care less about his daughter but wants to still control her.

I don't know how that is going but likely she will get partial custody. If that is the case that means if she does move out of state she would likely lose her daughter for the summer.. I don't see her doing that for me or for anyone. So it is like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Like your husband there are many mixed signals. One week she won't write at all. The next 3 or four times saying the sweetest things. Lately she has always been nice, never says anything mean when she talks. She says she loves me now.. she didn't used to. She is severely depressed her sister says she has been crying herself to sleep at night around Christmas.

She also said she was thinking no one was there for her but then she remembers me and knows she has someone. She says a lot of things like that. She has made a lot of progress lately. Before she wasn't flirting and anytime I mentioned us as a couple she would make it clear we were not.

Now it is just the opposite she acts like we are a couple.. she even said she was going to send a late Christmas present, something that is private and heartfelt.

(though I will be surprised to see it)

I talk to her mother and sister.. things they say.. actions she does when I am not around ..I do think she really loves me. That is what is frustrating. But she doesn't let me into her life like she used to. Common sense says if she does love me she would want to talk more, want to get closer. Everyone is always thanking me for all that I do and just for sticking by her.

If I ask her to make a choice it will just make her withdraw more I know it.. I have done that in the past. So I am stuck.. do I keep waiting and see what happens.. do I give up and possibly lose the love of my life.. or possibly win her by showing her that she can lose me.. or do I see other women see if I can find love elsewhere.. but feel guilty and run the risk of her somehow finding out and thinking I am just like guys that treated her bad in the past..

If I didn't care so much the answer would be clear to move on or do like many guys do keep looking on the side as I am not engaged.. but as I was telling her sister they feel like family and I truly do care a lot. I am in love.. I hate that I am but I am. Not saying I can't fall in love with someone that would be better either... I am just very confused right now.

I really just don't want to lose her or her daughter from my life.

[sadgreeneyes]

Oh dont feel guilty for writing, even I started the thread it is always interesting to see both views as we are in kinda similar situation as you say, I can see clearly your situation now and understand why you are waiting and why yo are thinking like you do.

I know you are frustrated and I feel with you but would like to give you my view of it as this woman comes from abuse and I can relate to her, why she said what she said and how she feels. I truly do believe she cares about you after hearing what you have told me, its that she had been beaten down by her abusive ex and I know what that does with a person, it damages the spirit and for many abused it takes time to trust someone again or feel that they can be happy and loved. This is the reason why she before made it clear to you you were not a couple, she has been scared of her abuser at same time scared of being with anyone,not only this but she probably lost her joy or wish to be with anyone again, this is common after abuse.

So now she might feel better,but she is still down because she is going through the custody and she might deal with her abuser as he tries to still control her, this can leave her depressed in between and it makes her "go into herself" or "closing off" without she means anything bad or wrong, knowing that she should write you more, she may even feel guilty for not being able to write,but I think after what you tell me that there can be light in the tunnel as she now has come to far to be more happy and she says she loves you, it means she has started to see light. This is how I believe it is,but I cannot be 100% sure of course.

So I agree with you, if you tell an abused person you will go see others or even just make her see one signs you go own way she will see it as "aha he´s the same as all others". I know that this is not the case as its you that is waitng for her, but abused victims are not able to see it other way because they have been so abused.

The problem is that you now are in different states and neither of you can leave the state for different reasons. If you two are going to be together there needs to be a solution so yo can stay at same place. If she gets the custody through I guess she can take her daughter with her? Is there anyone who can help your mother? I dont know the situation, I know you care about your mother, but you need to be able to keep your love in your life f it turns out the best in the end...I mean if you two go like this for a year or years its not a good thing as it will not work out. Maybe you can find a plan?

[randomperson]

Thank you very much for your post. It is another way to look at it.. and it is logical and helpful. ..I really think you are right. It is a lot how I was thinking things were.

As for my mother no I am the only one that can look after her.. it is another totally stressful situation on its own. I wrote and wrote on all of this in another thread in the relationship section to vent and release built up pain and stress.

I realize what you are saying about this going on and on not being a good thing.

That is what is stressing me the most...

I don't see a solution. I feel trapped.

Mom won't budge on anything.. even me going up to visit her she is so stubborn.. and her health is very bad.. how bad I'm not sure because she refuses to go to the Dr.. but bad enough where she does need someone to care for her.

Mom sees my frustration in all of this which makes things worse. She keeps saying I just want to die.. I am holding you back.. things like that.. it is a very up and down thing. One day I will be in a bad mood.. one day she will. Sometimes her words help me sometimes they hurt.

Kinda like the Visa situation with you, like a lot of people's problems on here. It is tough. No clear answers that I see.

If she did get full custody she could move down with me... but she isn't even talking about the custody case with me. Just it will be sometime this month.

From what I heard though it seems unlikely she will get full custody. She is broke and never got any evidence of his abuse.

You know even if I did have the option to move..I wonder how she would react? ..not sure really.

If anyone has any solutions other than give up lol..I would be extremely grateful.

[sadgreeneyes]

I just read through your posts in the relationship section, I may change my view a little bit after reading that, I dont want to hurt you but it seems to me as she is withdrawing because she choses so, I have to say again that you deserve much much better, I agree with nathan and Allan that she keeps you in limbo, it is not right of her to do this to you, I also think you are to hard on yourself, its not your fault any of this,not this woman and not your mother. Even it is very sad about your mother as its always sad when someone has a disorder ( I know how that feels as my own mother had mental disorder), it is not right to keep you from having your own life. I feel bad for you but think you need to see that this woman think about herself. Have you met in real life?

[randomperson]

Yes we did meet Oct of 09 for about a week.

The only time I ever kissed a woman.

So you think she is using me?

It has been a thought that crossed my mind (many times).. but some of the things her family say I'm not sure. Her mother said she keeps my messages, and that she was excited every time she hears from me. Sister says it is clear that she loves me.