Possible APD and suicide

[c-unit]

Hi, I'm new to this forum

I'm a 23-year old male, now in college and working as a journalist. I also served a year in combat zone.

Most of my life, uptill now, probably, I've been feeling myself rather good, I thought even better than everyone else, since I apparently didn't have all this teenage emotional turmoil, or anything of the sort that other kids had. I didn't have any psycholoical problems, none that would bother me, that is, well for the exception of being rather irritable and prone to physical violence, which later determined the fact of my enlisting in the army. This may sound cheesy, but from my childhood I remember being overly entertained and amused by everything that had to do with violence, murder and death. For some reason, I kept that fascination somewhat secret, because I understood that telling someone that scenes of war or gore lift my spirits up would cause problems. As time passed, I've got desensitied by those kind of things, which still makes me think of a person more fit to dealing with the world than others. When I returned from the army, these thoughts just got more solid ground to build on. I like to think of myself as of new and better level of humanity, as of a machine that doesn't have the faults other people do.

I also found myself unable to maintain friendships. When I don't have and never had problems with socializing, once I get to know a person really well and spend much time with him, I get bored and tend to start avoiding maintaining the friendship or intimate relationship. Sometimes, when I lose a friend that way, just stopping communicating with them, I feel myself somewhat relieved and satisfied. Part of the time I don't even understand why I'm bothering with having friends, but since I grew up in a really crowded environment and was always exposed to people, it might get just a kind of a habit.

But that's just background. That's how things used t be.

Problem is that lately I've been thinking about suicide all the time, and not just about my own suicide, but about making it... for a lack of a better word, public. I don't know what to make of this urge. There is no depression or sadness, or inability to deal with problems that contributes to it or pain that needs to end - my life is pretty much good on a general level, I have a job, I'm pretty socialized.

Sometimes I think about calling some hotline that deals with suicide, but then I think - what am I going to say to the operator? There's nothing to cry about, I cannot open up my "emotional burden" to them to solve this situation because I have none from the start. How would I explain this? I'm not used to talk about myself, I haven't reflexed on my personality or things that may trouble me, I never actually told anyone anything substantial about myself, on one hand because there isn't much to say, on the other - those things that could be voiced may have caused my ostracization. I know I can't tell a friend, for example, that most of the time my mind and imagination is preoccupied with quite violent imagery and that's ALL that there is when he or she tries to tell me about how sulky he or she feels because of some problems with their family. I can't tell someone that when in public transport, or during work, I sometimes barely refrain from assaulting a person for the mere urge to do that. It's not that kind of a confession to make to a social worker or a friend or family member.

What gives me comfort and a relief, is art, where I transfer these desires and thoughts, but for some reason, lately I've got an artblock and this venthole got closed.

Then, I have always prided myself for being able to singlehandedly cope with whatever difficulties are presented before me. For being able to 'function' when other people couldn't put their personality behind and whine at life. Plus I've somewhat made myself up the idea that I'm not really fully human, that I'm part machine and already dead, which gives me a sense of wholesomeness and purpose. It's a kind of a fantasy, but I sometimes act out on that image for no apparent reason.

The only real and discomforting thing that I started experiencing for the last couple of years, apart from the suicidal thoughts, that present themselves, is this strange, I don't know how to describe it, feeling of utter and sucking emptiness that sometimes washes over me for a period of time and then just disappears. It's a very strong sensation, like a huge amount of stomach acid washes over your insides, to the point you want to vomit, and then peakes out to a frustration of quite big proportions. I did vomit a couple of times, and for the last year got this habit of biting myself when this "fit" happens to vent this feeling of bile getting up to my throat. Apart from that I never SIed, or had suicide attempts, the closest to it is my addiction to alcohol, but I never crossed the line to become an alcoholic.

Most of the time I have a clear mind on all this account and don't pay attention to it, but the suicide urge bugs me a lot.

I've got a few people point out my desensitation and overall coldness when it comes to personal interactions, lack of empathy (which I don't think I really have, since I do care for 2 pets and cherish them a lot), they mentioned sociopathy and I started researching the matter on the web. Self-diagnosis is an ungateful thing as I know, so I couldn't assume much and thought of getting diagnosed by a professional. But it turned out that where I live, anti-social personality disorder is rarely diagnosed and there are close to none specialists that are dealing with it, except for criminology, so for some time, I dropped the idea. From what I've read about APD on the internet, it sounded really, I don't know, depressing, maybe, presenting people that have it as hopeless nutcases, which made me even more angry than I was at the moment, so I stoped researching the matter further.

At the moment, the suicidal (and partly, to be fair, homicidal) desire didn't subside. I find a lot of logical reasons not to do it, but at the same time I long for it disregarding all that logic.

sorry for the long post, but I really neede to word it correctly.

[paula]

Hi c-unit

I didn't have any psycholoical problems, none that would bother me, that is, well for the exception of being rather irritable and prone to physical violence, which later determined the fact of my enlisting in the army.

I think a lot of Your thoughts could be related to the Army? You say you keep having Suicidal thoughts, Could this not possibly be down to your experiences with the Army? EG - The killings you've witnessed?

You mention that you get bored with friendship, feeling quite relieved when you avoid your friends. Again, that also could do with the fact of being in the army. Working alone. I know you work in a team, but when your actually out there on the field, your looking after number one, watching your own back, which in it's self, is a job on it's own!

I think you could be suffering from some form of post trauma distress? I don't know, I'm not a Doctor? But I suggest you pay a visit to see one. I know you mention that the doctors in your Area are few and far between to give you a diagnosis on this problem, along with your anti-Social personality disorder.

Self-diagnosis is an ungateful thing as I know, so I couldn't assume much and thought of getting diagnosed by a professional. But it turned out that where I live, anti-social personality disorder is rarely diagnosed and there are close to none specialists that are dealing with it, except for criminology, so for some time, I dropped the idea.

Plus I've somewhat made myself up the idea that I'm not really fully human, that I'm part machine and already dead, which gives me a sense of wholesomeness and purpose. It's a kind of a fantasy, but I sometimes act out on that image for no apparent reason

Again, part of the army!

[c-unit]

Hi, Paula.

I think a lot of Your thoughts could be related to the Army? You say you keep having Suicidal thoughts, Could this not possibly be down to your experiences with the Army? EG - The killings you've witnessed?

Some of my thoughts are related to the army but in another way - I would've liked to return there if I had the guarantee if I'd be working in the conflict zone again. The time I had both in training and in actual combat itself was probably the best time of my life and on a lot of occassions I miss it. I don't think I was traumatized by what I saw or did, I knew what to epect when I enlisted so... I don't think it's PTSD or something of the sort.

The suicidal thoughts are there on their own. I don't understand where they come from.

[paula]

Hi c-unit

The time I had both in training and in actual combat itself was probably the best time of my life and on a lot of occassions I miss it.

Well I think you've just answered your own question there?

You could be falling into Depression? I would still suggest that you see a Doctor, even if it only puts your mind at rest!

I suffer from Manic Depression and frequently have Suicidal thoughts! Also, acted twice on these suicidal thoughts!

I hope you find the answer that your looking for, and wish you all the best!

MERRY XMAS

[IamLove]

I also think your suicidal thoughts, since they are a new addition, are related to your service. But I also felt the intensity that you have when describing your urges, it seems as if their is a building up to a climax. Almost as if your combat experience unleashed a beast from with in (alternate personality?), perhaps you have created this "beast" (machine) as a way to accept the violence you felt compelled to express, because there is a part of you that knows it's wrong or you wouldn't be sharing this information as a concern. It may be that this part of you is the motivation for putting a "stop" to the beast before it fully gains control. Afterall, the soldier in you had been conditioned to destroy the enemy, foreign or domestic, or within. Please don't keep this to yourself. You possibily have isolated yourself from others as a way to protect them from your innerself. This avoidant behavior may in fact be out of concern, which is the opposite of anti-social behavior. You need someone to help you battle this "machine". It is probably hard for you to admit to someone that you need their help, but you are not just a carbon unit, you are a human "being"---and humans need other humans to experience being human---in other words--if you are around nothing but unemotional c-units all the time, then you will eventually behave like one.

Edited December 16, 2008 by IamLove
point unclear/vague

[c-unit]

I also think your suicidal thoughts, since they are a new addition, are related to your service. But I also felt the intensity that you have when describing your urges, it seems as if their is a building up to a climax. Almost as if your combat experience unleashed a beast from with in (alternate personality?), perhaps you have created this "beast" (machine) as a way to accept the violence you felt compelled to express, because there is a part of you that knows it's wrong or you wouldn't be sharing this information as a concern. It may be that this part of you is the motivation for putting a "stop" to the beast before it fully gains control. Afterall, the soldier in you had been conditioned to destroy the enemy, foreign or domestic, or within. Please don't keep this to yourself. You possibily have isolated yourself from others as a way to protect them from your innerself. This avoidant behavior may in fact be out of concern, which is the opposite of anti-social behavior. You need someone to help you battle this "machine". It is probably hard for you to admit to someone that you need their help, but you are not just a carbon unit, you are a human "being"---and humans need other humans to experience being human---in other words--if you are around nothing but unemotional c-units all the time, then you will eventually behave like one.

Well, maybe, but my service ended quite a while ago, and aside from me being nostalgic about it time from time, I didn't feel myself bad because of it. As for the "machine" personality, I formed it and gained such a view on the world before I went to the army, the decision was a cause of me trying to test myself, not like being just thrown into that system. It came out that it suited me.

I do feel concern that in some way the current situation is correlated to the fact that I can't find an outlet to the desires I have, the violence I want to express. I switch to doing other thins and to sublime this, which I did nicely for around three years, but there you go...

As for avoiding people and isolation... The nature of my work and lifestyle is that I have to be around and communicate with people nearly 24/7. I'm nicely socialized, it just doesn't bring me actual, honest to bone comfort, which results that sometimes I slip and act not as expected. I can't allow myself to be burdened with others peoples problems, life and needs for a long time - it just begins to bore and irritate me. It would be too much waste of energy, and that's why I eventually loose friends and aquaintances - I get tired and bored of them and their needs. I've never had a person really close to me except for a couple of relatives, so no, it's not an issue of concern for someones wellbeing or safety.

I understand that the longer I keep stuff to myself the more it could beuild up, but what this "stuff" is, except for simply-cut urges to kill myself or violate someone else - I can't put a finger on it. Having someone sounds interesting, but, but, from the experience I gained, people surrounding me are perfectly fine "beings", that's why a lot of times they look like total aliens, aliens only looking for someone to cling to and leech off them. I don't know, actually. And that the best decision is to travel to a different "planet" vie offing oneself.

[IamLove]

I understand the urge to escape. I want to understand what motivates the urge to be homicidal, what is the reward you desire? Is it release of frustration/anxiety? Is it just a thrill or rush? Sexual? What do you think, if you really ask yourself honestly you are seeking? What are you wanting to escape from? What do you think the purpose of life is?

[c-unit]

I understand the urge to escape. I want to understand what motivates the urge to be homicidal, what is the reward you desire? Is it release of frustration/anxiety? Is it just a thrill or rush? Sexual? What do you think, if you really ask yourself honestly you are seeking? What are you wanting to escape from? What do you think the purpose of life is?

I guess, it's the frustration. It feels like I'm wasting my efforts on accomplishing things that are of no importance compared to things I did before. You're right about the purpose - atm I feel like having no purpose whatsoever. And I feel like if I would assign that purpose for me on my own, it would lead to things like ostracization or worse. Something like that.

[c-unit]

so today went to work. Got an article to edit till the end of the week, tried to work at home but with no apparent success. Lately my persistent issue with making myself work just got even more prominent. I find a million of reasons or other stuff to do, only not work: clean my guns, watch videos, tidy up the apartment, drink, etc. Sometimes I wish to go in a spiraling stae of drunkedness, fuck my job and college and responsibilities, but... that's just a dream.

Couple of days ago I tried to talk with one of my relatives about this frustration and angering hopelessness I feel, but I couldn't formulate my thoughts clearly, and he brushed it off saying that I should get myself together and drink less. After that I felt stupid and ashamed that I even initiated such a topic and that it was week and dumb. Like I was looking for pity when I hadnt.

The past few days couldn't stop musing about how many people could a person randomly shoot up on a street in my area before the police arrives. Got into my head like a splinter, I was chewing it over and over, and then just bam!- switched to thinking about whether I need a christmas tree or not.

it's strange.

[Kay_J]

---------------------

Edited March 19, 2009 by Kay_J

[c-unit]

c-unit,

How are you doing lately? I've been wondering if you have got (or at least, leant towards getting) some professional help. Let us know how it goes & Hope things look better for you soon.

By the way, have you ever tried the Samaritans or that sort of helplines? As you may know, some of them offer their services even via email. JFYI.

Hi, Kay_J.

Can't say was great. After I heard about that massacre in US where a man crashed a party and shot dead 8 people before killing himself, I couldn't keep my mind off that, that sort of impacted me on a level that I had these temptings. The past few days were rather unpleasant, in terms of self-control, plus I got drunk several times, but I'm managing.

I've leant towards getting professional help. I don't think that talking things over with a psychologist would help a lot, but maybe there are other forms of therapy if there is something wrong with me. I've made an appointment with a therapist in mid January, need to live through the holidays up to it.

Nope, I haven't. I don't know what to say to people on helplines.

[finding my way]

Hey c-unit, have you thought of AA? At least until you can start with your therapist? They can be a very good and very real support network... to get you through the holidays...?

[c-unit]

Hey c-unit, have you thought of AA? At least until you can start with your therapist? They can be a very good and very real support network... to get you through the holidays...?

Well, I'm not an alcoholic (I know that for sure since my uncle is one, and I never got to the stages he did), so I haven't thought of AA. I tend to drink to just keep my mind off things when I feel that I'm losing a calm state of conciousness, but that doesn't happen very often. The problem with holidays is that I'll be socializing too much, corporate party, college party and so on, and seeing my rather frustrated mood, I might end just doing something stupid and at the same time I want to do it and well... it all confuses me. Probably I shouldn't go anywhere and just get good sleep through a few days.

[finding my way]

Then maybe al-anon (for families & friends of alcoholics)? I went for a while even though alcohol was not my issue, and I learned a few coping skills that are still with me. Desperate times call for desperate measures! I learned there that I was organizing myself around my anger...had grown quite dependent on being angry. I would never have seen that on my own.

[c-unit]

Then maybe al-anon (for families & friends of alcoholics)? I went for a while even though alcohol was not my issue, and I learned a few coping skills that are still with me. Desperate times call for desperate measures! I learned there that I was organizing myself around my anger...had grown quite dependent on being angry. I would never have seen that on my own.

I can relate to that. I feel or think, that if I won't feel this anger and frustration, and hate, I would not feel anything at all and be empty and well... non-existent. I've felt like that all my life so I can't see how it would change or if I would like it to change, because most of the time this anger was of a "happy", elated kind of anger, like an adrenaline rush.

I don't know, maybe I should try it with some kind of AA suporting organisation, if there is one here. Maybe the people there will infuriate me even more, as I've heard of a lot of crap that they try to pass as advices there.

[kaudio]

Hello c-unit, welcome to the community. It seems you are a well-meaning person with a great deal to offer, and it is unfortunate that you are currently experiencing these difficulties. From your post I understand that you are a motivated person who has some very good tools for problem solving. But, it also seems that you have developed a few less effective measures that are unsustainable for the long-term. For instance, the way you seek relief in art is a wonderful way to release the tensions of a day, and your willingness to write and share your thoughts with us is another. It is very important to convert one's thoughts and feelings into words - to give them more substance. This gives both yourself and others an opportunity to reach an understanding, and to sort out whatever issues arise. As you are in a communications field, you probably appreciate the value of personal expression already. On the other hand, the way you describe this machine state, and your use of alcohol to remain calm cannot be permitted to continue.

The machine state is helpful in the sense that it shares your ideal and your values. You wish to be a person who can remain calm, functional, and independent under any circumstances. But, most importantly, you want to make a contribution to humanity in someway. These are very admirable goals. With these goals in mind, one can understand why you reminisce about your time in the army. The military is one of the quickest ways to directly participate in the developments of human history. However, you also differentiate yourself from humanity when you say that you like to think, as a machine, you are built such that you do not share the same flaws as other people do.

As a machine, you suggest you are not wholly human, and that you are dead. This gives you a sense of purpose. But what do you do to achieve this sense? Nietzsche encourages his readers to consider how short human life is, and to demonstrate their values to others through action. Is that the foundation of this sense of purpose you describe? That you have in mind the kind of man you wish to be, and how precious each life is in contributing to human history? Buddhists use the same thinking tool. Adherents describe the world as a burning house in order to encourage themselves to meditate of who they want to be amidst the dangerous blaze where people can just as easily find or lose themselves. They are taught to show people another perspective despite the circumstances. Or is it that by telling yourself you are not human, and that you are already dead, you avoid thinking about the concerns that are really pressing you?

Your anger, the way you self-medicate with alcohol, how your mind leaps from public massacre to setting up a christmas tree, each suggests that a great deal is going through your mind. When you use alcohol to regain your calm, you are also depressing your brain. If you are indeed on the path to some degree of depression, the alcohol is exacerbating the situation. Further, you may be using the alcohol and miscellaneous tasks to suppress some difficult thoughts, namely those of rampaging through a public venue. But, are you really just your thoughts? Just because you are thinking of a rampage does not mean you will rampage. You are not a bad person for thinking of violence, and being desensitized to violent scenes does not define you. You have the power to choose, and the power to act. If you do not want to do something, then do not do it. The alcohol may also be suppressing some valid questions: What are your values? What do you stand for? Who are you?

When you tried to share your thoughts with your relatives, their response was not very well considered. But, this does not mean they do not care for you, nor that they find you weak or dumb. Please do not be too harsh with yourself. When one commits self-evaluation; it does not help when the only actor in such a process is judgemental.

That said, I must confess that I find some of what you have shared familiar after writing this post. If I am presumptuous, it is likely due to this realization.

[c-unit]

Hello c-unit, welcome to the community. It seems you are a well-meaning person with a great deal to offer, and it is unfortunate that you are currently experiencing these difficulties. From your post I understand that you are a motivated person who has some very good tools for problem solving. But, it also seems that you have developed a few less effective measures that are unsustainable for the long-term. For instance, the way you seek relief in art is a wonderful way to release the tensions of a day, and your willingness to write and share your thoughts with us is another. It is very important to convert one's thoughts and feelings into words - to give them more substance. This gives both yourself and others an opportunity to reach an understanding, and to sort out whatever issues arise. As you are in a communications field, you probably appreciate the value of personal expression already. On the other hand, the way you describe this machine state, and your use of alcohol to remain calm cannot be permitted to continue.

Hi, Kaudio, thank you for replying.

Yes, during years I've found ways to channel my rage or ideas on canvas and paper, but you kow what - once they get there, nothing changes on a basic level. Feeling of hate and frustration, as well as other, are not substantial, they cannot be poured like liquid from one vessel to another. If it was that simple.... Plus, getting your art called disturbed, or sick, or offensive too doesn't quite help anything.

As a machine, you suggest you are not wholly human, and that you are dead. This gives you a sense of purpose. But what do you do to achieve this sense? Nietzsche encourages his readers to consider how short human life is, and to demonstrate their values to others through action. Is that the foundation of this sense of purpose you describe? That you have in mind the kind of man you wish to be, and how precious each life is in contributing to human history? Buddhists use the same thinking tool. Adherents describe the world as a burning house in order to encourage themselves to meditate of who they want to be amidst the dangerous blaze where people can just as easily find or lose themselves. They are taught to show people another perspective despite the circumstances.

Sense of purpose... when I was in the army, I had a clear-cut sense of purpose, it was good. When I returned, I found and build up a new purpose for myself, that perfectly suits me, but the problem here is, that it's looked upon, and I have to lead a sort of double-life - work for an unpopular political organisation as a text-writer and an artist, the way I can contribute to our common cause and at the same time have a more respectable job which I do for money. However, what I aspire to achieve is probably impossible to achieve. That's very painful to realize when one thinks about it. And talking about Nietzsche, I do follow his idea that you should push one who falls... quite hypocritical of me seeing that I post here, but still, I still admire that idea, hm. I don't value each human life, don't see it precious or unique. Everyone is pretty much replacable. I wished to be more than just replacable by being less flawed with all the silly ideas of humanism and so on, however, it seems that outside the battlefield, where I truelly am effective, all this philosophical crap isn't helping the cause.

Being a machine is exactly reprsenting the ability to negate and ignore this bullshit people like putting on my shoulders. I've never had a long and stable relationship - women just got on my nerves and bored me eventually when it came to "caring for" and so on. I've been asked of things I cannot perform, so instead of questioning myself or breaking myself to the needs of others, I decided to justify myself that way and it worked.

Or is it that by telling yourself you are not human, and that you are already dead, you avoid thinking about the concerns that are really pressing you?

Well, I've seen people exhibit quite shameful behavior when they are on emotions and such, and I've never actually had hysteria, or any other extreme emotional behavior other people around me did. This lead me to think why they have it and I don't. And I've always thought that this indifference that I'm feeling towards most factors that made others react quite profoundly, makes me different. Not fully human. For the better, mind you. As about being dead, when I was around 16 years old, I've read Hagakure, where I've stumbled upon the idea that a person in order to live a good life, should have such a mindset and feeling, that his body and he himself, are already dead - in this manner, he will always remain focused and make right decisions. That he won't bother himself with all the petty worries and troubles of everyday routine. I tried to implement it, and it helped a lot.

However, these thoughts abotu killing myself and all, I don't like them because they are signs that I'm obviously in some haste and worriedness, that I'm not as "dead" as I should be if I'm having the urge to quicken the process... Something like that.

Your anger, the way you self-medicate with alcohol, how your mind leaps from public massacre to setting up a christmas tree, each suggests that a great deal is going through your mind. When you use alcohol to regain your calm, you are also depressing your brain. If you are indeed on the path to some degree of depression, the alcohol is exacerbating the situation. Further, you may be using the alcohol and miscellaneous tasks to suppress some difficult thoughts, namely those of rampaging through a public venue.

Yes. I'm using it to somehow shut up that part of the inner voice that is the expression of the frustration I feel and that nags me to do something of a violent sort. Mind you, when I say part of the inner voice, it's an euphemism, I'm not thinking in "voices" or in different personalities, I just mean that yes, when I drink I stop thinking about most things, or my thought process gets slowed down. It's a nice state, being kind of "vegetable"-like.

But, are you really just your thoughts? Just because you are thinking of a rampage does not mean you will rampage. You are not a bad person for thinking of violence, and being desensitized to violent scenes does not define you. You have the power to choose, and the power to act. If you do not want to do something, then do not do it. The alcohol may also be suppressing some valid questions: What are your values? What do you stand for? Who are you?

Every person IS his inner speech, so yes, I think we are our thoughts.

I don't consider myself neither a good or bad person, however, yes, objectively I am bad and hide it on several social planes. Not only because of my urges for violence, but exactly because of the values and mindset I have. I won't go into detail specifying them, as it wouldn't be wise to do in the light of the conversation, let's just say that they are completely and utterly unacceptable in the modern western society and in some countries are even illegal. I should stress the word "modern" however, so you could understand that we're not talking about something on a general scale so horrid and ugly that it might be deemed as total mental deviance.

Probably, and your words made me reflect on this, the fact that I always realized that I could never be fully integrated becase of them in the existing society and that despite my efforts the society won't change to suit me, did weigh negatively on those perspectives I've had of my further life. It's not a fear of persecution, it's the knowledge of how harder everyday are your goals to be achieved. If they can be achieved.

When you tried to share your thoughts with your relatives, their response was not very well considered. But, this does not mean they do not care for you, nor that they find you weak or dumb. Please do not be too harsh with yourself. When one commits self-evaluation; it does not help when the only actor in such a process is judgemental.

I'm not being harsh, I think I'm being objective. I don't like being cared for, or be dependant on someone, if it's an interested party such as relatives or friends. It seems unnatural to me. They would percieve me as weak, no doubt. If from the start I was some whiny dude who couldn't make a step without falling into his own troubles, that's another thing, but nope, not me.

That said, I must confess that I find some of what you have shared familiar after writing this post. If I am presumptuous, it is likely due to this realization.

Thank you very much for reply and insight, it made me refect on some things as well.

[kaudio]

Thank you for your candour. I am curious as to what you aspire to achieve that is probably impossible? Would you be comfortable sharing this goal with us? I am only familiar with Nietzsche's Untimely Meditations. Why would it be hypocritical of you to post here?

One of the reasons why each life is precious is because of the example they can make for others. When someone demonstrates a way of life, he shows what that life has to offer, and what he can do with it. This allows others to study the demonstration, and alter their own behaviour. It's kind of like when people are asked what the moral of a story is; or when you ask yourself what you would do if you were a general of a king's army, and you knew what happened to Macbeth. To the extent that others can live vicariously through you, you are replaceable. However, no one can actually replace you because, as IamLove mentioned, you are not a carbon unit. If you were to disappear, there will not be another c-unit with the same thoughts, experience, goals, and accomplishments.

This is what I was referring to when I asked are you really just your thoughts. In other words, I intended to mean that you are more than just your thoughts because you are your actions as well. As you already noted in your post, if you are your thoughts alone you would argue that you are a bad person. Surely if that is the case for everyone then no one could ever be fully "integrated".

So, if you are comfortable answering, what are these values that you realized keep you from being integrated? Should you not feel comfortable with some of the questions I have asked, perhaps you should make note of them, elaborate upon them in a journal of some sort, and consider sharing them with your therapist later.

[c-unit]

One of the reasons why each life is precious is because of the example they can make for others. When someone demonstrates a way of life, he shows what that life has to offer, and what he can do with it. This allows others to study the demonstration, and alter their own behaviour. It's kind of like when people are asked what the moral of a story is; or when you ask yourself what you would do if you were a general of a king's army, and you knew what happened to Macbeth. To the extent that others can live vicariously through you, you are replaceable. However, no one can actually replace you because, as IamLove mentioned, you are not a carbon unit. If you were to disappear, there will not be another c-unit with the same thoughts, experience, goals, and accomplishments.

Life isn't precious, it's what people usually think it is becaue they are afraid of their own death. When it comes to destroying a life of some person who didn't achieve something "worthy" or "good for humanity", no one has doubts taking this life away. I know it. A person may had done a dozen of good deeds that are a demonstration of a right way of living ones life, and then do something that would forever deem him as someone who shouldn't even had to be born. It's all so relative that it doesn't even require discussion.

Ultimately, when I'll be dead, it won't matter if I will be replaced or not. I just don't want to go alone, though, most of the times. Because if I kill myself just like that it would mean that I hadn't real obvious reasons to do it and some of my life would be wasted, some opportunities, that I hadn't fully expressed my rage. I don't want that.

This is what I was referring to when I asked are you really just your thoughts. In other words, I intended to mean that you are more than just your thoughts because you are your actions as well. As you already noted in your post, if you are your thoughts alone you would argue that you are a bad person. Surely if that is the case for everyone then no one could ever be fully "integrated".

According to the public opinion, I am a bad person, both for my actions and mindset. As a war vet I'm bad for participating in war, which is now a trend to accuse soldiers of, all the liberal bullshit about how we shouldn't have gotten into it and bla-bla-bla, and you did the bidding of higher bad people, bla-bla, killed innocents, bla-bla. I've heard it all. I'm ever more bad because I don't have any feelings of guilt or trauma I should have, according to these people. And then. as for my mindset and political work, I'm so bad that I've even had people tell me to go kill myself. It did happen. And though I remained unphased by all this directly, it just adds to the realisation of that I'm basically living in hostile environment and will live in it until I die, and there are no prospects of it changing into an environment I'd feel related to. I sometimes feel that war hasn't ended, it just became slow and dull and without any work or shooting.

So, if you are comfortable answering, what are these values that you realized keep you from being integrated? Should you not feel comfortable with some of the questions I have asked, perhaps you should make note of them, elaborate upon them in a journal of some sort, and consider sharing them with your therapist later.

Its not that I feel uncomfortable with the question, I just KNOW that answering the exact one of what are these values would degrade the topic in needless controversy and strife it away. I won't share them with my therapist either, because it would affect the way he will handle me, inevitable. And really, it's not the centerpiece of my current problems anyway.

Edited December 30, 2008 by c-unit

[finding my way]

Hey c-unit, as a former “angerist” I recognize some of the trouble you’re in. It’s kind of a basis of faith—faith in anger to organize you, make sense of the world, get you through and get you going… a basis for “everything,” eventually. The part of you that believes in it gets more and more dominant and convincing, and the part of you that doesn’t, shrinks and gets more and more outcast. Anyone who challenges “the faith” gets rejected too.

I got that way because my mother had a narcissistic personality disorder, my father was passive and uninvolved, I was a sensitive and complex child that people didn’t really know how to respond to… so I got very little response from the world, very little to organize my personality around… it was largely just me and my thoughts. I was angry with my parents because I knew something was wrong. Thinking something was wrong with them was VERBOTTEN by the world around me, so I had to be the lone believer of the true faith and carry my anger to safety against all costs (and it cost me just about everything).

Just checking in, are you able to listen to me say this stuff, or were you looking for how I fit or don’t fit into your system of thinking? Machinelike, have you decided I should be rejected? I’m only asking this as a former angry person myself, because I know how it worked for me. In the end you become guardian of the anger universe and have to marine yourself to maintain it, because everything is at stake. Without it, there is nothing. You are no one. Right? And you really, really believe it because you have to.

I only had my anger to keep me sane. Something was wrong with my parents; can’t anyone see that or admit to it? No. OK, I’m crazy. No I’m NOT!!!! You just don’t get it, and my anger will keep me straight and on the true path.

Anger does something vitally important for us. And so we get dependent on using it and miss the bigger picture. It is nothing to organize an entire world around. If you do, life will be completely unlivable in the end.

So I saved myself from my parents and everyone who tried to shame me about it, only to be so miserable I wanted to die. That’s when I joined al-anon. That’s when I learned about how alcoholism is a disease of relationships (my parents didn’t drink—I was a poser, but I was desperate. I would translate it in my head, “mental illness” is a disease of relationships…). And that’s when I learned how I was overusing anger.

Is there something you are guarding at all costs? Maybe there is another way to protect it. You don't have to answer me, and I hope I haven't excessively annoyed you. We are all in our own little worlds a lot of the time; I was just hoping to reach across to yours in my own way.

[kaudio]

I appreciate why you are angry. People are entitled to a modicum of respect. While I am not sure of all the circumstances, you do not deserve to be subjected to verbal abuse. Also, the comments you have endured do not make you a bad person. Should there be a set of reasons to establish you are a bad person, then perhaps that is the beginning of an argument. Yet, even if such an argument is submitted against you, please remember not to accept the opinions of others without examining them. Try to think of what your machine self would do to address these arguments. Would he take these hurtful things others say to him to heart and allow them to fester and inhibit him? Or would he study the lines of reasoning these arguments have, consider their merits, and either modify his behaviour or reject them? As you mentioned, hagakure is a tool to allow you focus on what really matters: demonstrating the kind of person you want to be even while facing death. I do not think you want to be like the very people who have become frustrated over their own lack of initiative, and who choose to berate strangers based upon their career choices.

It is truly unfortunate that those who do not agree with U.S. foreign policy choose to take their frustrations out upon well meaning people such as yourself. We are civilized peoples, and there is no need to make threats or verbal attacks against others. However, it is important that you do not allow yourself to become too jaded, i.e. to impose your perspective of war in all contexts, because not everything fits into a confrontational mold.

Happy New Year.

[finding my way]

c-unit, kaudio, if you feel I was being disrespectful with my comments, I want to appologize:o

[kaudio]

I appreciated your post, finding. I did not find it disrespectful.

[finding my way]

Thanks Kaudio.

C-unit, did you make it through the holidays OK?

[kaudio]

Hi c-unit, I just wanted to say hello to see how you are doing. I hope your therapy appointment goes smoothly, and that you are taking care of yourself.