Please Recommend An Excellent Resource

[Guest GingerSnap]

I have been researching sexual fetish/sexual addiction for almost 6 months. I've probably spent 100's of hours. It has been less than a pleasant experience;:eek: I just had no idea what the possibilities were. We live in the middle of nowhere and when one seeks outside guidance the choices are extremely limited if available at all and the medical services are as scarce as mental health services and our situation is so unusual so I have looked and looked until I am exhausted and I cannot find the information that I need. I have but one question that I need answered and I cannot find the answer and my whole life revolves around it. Or maybe I know the answer and that is what is exhausting me? :confused: If anyone can direct me to a resource I would be deeply grateful. My question is what is the chance of curing (just going away forever and not resurfacing) a fetish/sexual addiction so that the couple could be "together" physically when one of the partner's fetish/addiction is "outercourse" in lieu of intercourse? I think it would be impossible or I know it would be impossible? Like someone with a gambling addiction and you take them to Vegas and fill their pockets with money/tokens? I just must solve this because if I keep "walking" it off, someday I'll open my eyes and be in China - maybe that would be a good thing, I could see the Great Wall, would love to do that! There has to be an answer.:confused:

[malign]

Ginger, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not that sure you're really looking for an answer.

You've told us repeatedly that you think he's "pure evil", "of the devil", and so on. How are any of those things curable? I know for sure they're not researchable.

You've also said that you think that any kind of therapy for yourself would mean you would have to "give up" more, that it would imply that there's something wrong with you, and you reject that utterly.

But the point of therapy isn't to make you give up things. It's to try to connect you to yourself more completely. You're clearly angry, and you have a right to be. The question, and the only place to research the answer is inside of you, is what are you going to do about that.

[Guest GingerSnap]

Thank you Malign. So, there is something wrong with me? Yes, that was basically implied the first time my husband went to see the counselor - I don't like to be touched so maybe he would be happier with someone else I believe was the essence of the conversation. Really, Malign, I know you are trying to help and what I know is that the prognosis is poor at best for the issues he has and I get to spend what I just heard was going to be a very icy winter, keeping us inside a lot until spring. You have to keep in mind that my husband is not the only one that minimizes our situation as in what's the big deal? This has been the worst 6 months of my whole life so forgive me for my attitude. I appreciate all comments and a lot of times, once I think them through, I see them more clearly.

[David O]

Hi Ginger,

The largest body of research on fetishes isn't accessible thru the regular web system- you have to be enrolled at a university/college that opens up an entire new arena of published journal articles.

Ginger, I interpreted Malign's comment differently. I didn't hear that he was saying there was something wrong with you per see. here's what I heard, but I'll add more to it to set the stage for where I think he's coming from.

Dr. John Gottman at the University of Washington has done extensive research on what causes marriages to work and fail. Basically, he states (and I agree from my own personal divorce and from years of doing couples therapy) that there are 4 stages a marriage passes thru on it's way to collapsing:

• Criticism - Losing the positive mental attitude toward your spouse and developing a critical spirit to the point that one can't recognize what's good and working.
  
• Defensiveness - Not allowing your spouse the right to complain, becoming immediately defensive and hostile or pulling away when concerns come up so problems are not resolved.
  
• Contempt - Long term anger that's turned into bitterness, lost passion and contempt. The ability to forgive has now left the marriage and what's left is disdain and contempt (this is where I see the name calling, insults, cursing, verbal abuse and rejection of one's partner).
  
• Stonewalling - Refusing to be a part of any real discussion of the issues, which can come off as silent withdrawal or basically just being hard headed and not budging about issues. This is the more destructive stage b/c it emotionally abandons your partner and allows problems to go unresolved, so they go underground and surface in other destructive ways
  

What I heard from Malign was that much of what you say about your spouse (Dark Enity) is angry, at times hateful and hostile and contemptuous. You've reached this point b/c of his "abusiveness" towards you and you no longer have what it takes to give for another day or hour. There is very little room left for you to maneuver, so you end up having limited choices-- being angry and hostile are simply extensions of being deeply hurt hundreds of times.

It's interesting to me that when you offer your wisdom and compassion to others in pain, you're incredibly warm, sensitive, insightful and wise: when you speak about your spouse, another person is speaking, and it's an angry, bitter and hurt one. Both come thru loud and clear and they seem to come from different places.

You've been thru enough pain Ginger... it may be time to begin focusing on becoming stronger for you so that whatever relationship exists between both of you after the divorce, it can be healthier and less damaging than what you have now. This can only benefit your son and your own emotional well-being and physical health in the long run.

Your anger and hostility is simply an extension of your pain and disappointments, they are secondary emotions that come up when the primary ones (loss of love for example) are repeatedly violated.

I'm not sure I covered it all, but I hope this helps. I also hope my response didn't come off as disrespectful in any way. I find you to be very wise, compassionate and insightful, and this is what is most brave about you.

David

[Guest GingerSnap]

David O. - Thank you for your response.

[Dark Enity]

Malign, Gingersnap has been looking for the answer for that question since April.

I have requested more information about the question from sex addicts anonymous. Hope to get an answer soon.

[malign]

Dark, I know she's been looking for the answer to "what is she going to do about it" for a long time. All I was wondering is, why is she looking for information about your problem, to solve a question that fundamentally has to be asked of herself.

[Guest GingerSnap]

Malign: The question was as follows: " My question is what is the chance of curing (just going away forever and not resurfacing) a fetish/sexual addiction so that the couple could be "together" physically when one of the partner's fetish/addiction is "outercourse" in lieu of intercourse? I think it would be impossible or I know it would be impossible? Like someone with a gambling addiction and you take them to Vegas and fill their pockets with money/tokens?" I did not ask to be analyzed or for someone to tell me what I wanted, suggest that I needed therapy or that I should find the damn answer within myself since it is a textbook question - I just hate that, sorry. Have I even once asked that someone make the decision for me? I make my own informed decisions. I can't believe I can't ask a question without someone adding to my distress. Don't we call this bullying? That sure to heck is what it feels like to me. Malign, I appreciate your time but until you have walked a mile in my shoes...I have to go and bathe my 23 year old son with Down syndrome now and it has been a long day.

[David O]

Ginger,

In answer to your question, yes, sexual addictions can somewhat be "cured." Cured is a term I use with caution. Sexual addiction, in my experience, is a disorder of a failure to be intimate. For most men, it's not about sex for the sake of sex, it's more about not knowing how to be intimate, so it becomes the substitute for being close and developing real affection. Keep in mind, as you probably know, it's not w/o emotions-- it also has stress relief, anger, power, ego gratification, and tons of deep shame with huge internal conflicts (many may not be seen by others).

Few men who are "sex addicts" voluntarily seek treatment, but of those who do and who stick with the combo of antidepressants and cognitive-behavioral therapy long enough to make real change, about 20-30% can't maintain: BUT, this also means that 60-70% are able to with the right treatment and support.

So, in answer to your question, there are effective treatments that seem to work for many if not most men. But it can only work if the man is willing to stick with it over the long term.

I hope this answers your question. If you need more specific info, please feel free to ask.

David

Edited September 18, 2009 by David O

[malign]

I'm sorry, GingerSnap, I had no intention of adding to your burden or bullying you.

I'm afraid I do not know the answer to your question(s) as stated.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Ginger,

I think you have been given excellent information about fetishes, especially from David O who has a lot of information about the problem.

I agree with David that if a person does not believe there is a problem then there is nothing you can do to get them to get help.

However, there are things you can do to get yourself help. Here is what I mean. If I felt the way you do about my spouse, I would not stay around. If it mean I had to take the children with me, I would take them and get out. There is no reason, especially today, for a person to stay in an unhappy marriage. If you would rather go about by first seeing an attorney before moving out, then I would do that. Regardless of how far you live, there is transportation and you can go to the nearest city. You need to use the phone book or Internet to find a lawyer in that town or city, make a call and set up an appointment. Most attorneys are willing to meet with a client free of charge the first time so that the client can decide about continuing the process.

What do you think?

Allan

[Guest GingerSnap]

All: Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have always known my husband would not change. Now that I am looking at moving up my departure date, he is starting another "two week fix". I know our relationship is an impossible one and today I started checking out the online do-it-yourself divorce packets, will check on which are reputable. When I was working on some course work at another forum, it said separate the addiction from the man and what do you have - it still wasn't good and it asked for me to make a list of his good qualities...This is still really hard because it seems like I did everything right and loved him more and gave him more than anyone else ever did in his life and it just never made a difference - I'm just so perplexed. Since April, I know that you know that in my heart I knew it was hopeless but still I tried to put that feeling aside to give him another chance which clearly he didn't deserve. I am concerned as to what he made do when I try to leave him, very concerned but that is not a reason stay. Thanks,

Edited September 19, 2009 by GingerSnap

[Guest GingerSnap]

The reason I had asked the original question on this thread is because my husband puts me under pressure "I'll change", "I'll fix it", yeah, that will happen. I don't believe he would ever be able to be physically close to me despite anything short of taking away his sexual desire totally and even then this "crime" is not necessarily sexual in nature. I'll tell you how he got his "opportunity" this last time, less than a week ago: I told him we would work together on this if he would be totally honest with me. He started taking some herbal supplements - not like a magic bullet and requiring more time than standard meds, he was tell me when he got that "feeling" which explains as being different than "horny". I had already put distance between us when sleeping and knew that the morning was a problem and told him to get out of bed and walk it off, exercise, things he avoids like the plague and discuss it with me to see what we could do to work around it. We were working at being considerate, loving, talking and enjoying one another's company and actually had a couple short intimate encounters - well, intimate I guess for only one of us. I had been looking at houses for myself and let him look at what I was considering but I said "I can't help wondering what you will do to ruin this" and within a couple days, I knew - he didn't choose the back this time but went back to the standard he used to use. He said this was an "accident" and spent the whole day feeling sorry for himself because I was upset with him - keep in mind that his counselor minimized what he was doing to me so I see that as definitely contributing to the problem. Was I stupid for doing this? Yes. I guess it is my fault that it happened - I guess that is my 100% fault that the relationship failed because I was stupid, no, I had no idea that people this cold, this inhumane existed. See I really thought that from the incident in April that he would have woke up and seen the seriousness and devastation of the situation. I contaminated the marriage by believing that everyone has good in them and how sad it is to realize that I was wrong. No words can ever describe this. There just isn't much that can be said about it anymore. I've been doing my hard time on mother earth and I'm about to be paroled. My best - hopefully my story will help someone else.