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losing what little hope I had


hadtoomuchpain
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Okay. How about not burdening a perfect stranger with your death. It would certainly mean a lot to me.

It's a little difficult to offer up any concrete information without some background. There's all kinds of reasons why people want to end their lives. Being in a lot of pain is certainly one of them, especially if it seems that pain might not come to an end.

What happened in your life?

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Guest ASchwartz

Hello Hadtoomuchpain,

I could give you dozens of reasons why you should not take your life. Would it do any good? Are you challenging us so that you can stubbornly do what you want? What do you want us to tell you?

Allan:(

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Can anyone give me a reason not to kill myself?

None of us will get to know you if you hurt yourself, HTMP.

You wouldn't see the sun rising tomorrow. You wouldn't hear the birds chirping. You wouldn't have the chance to feel love again. You wouldn't have the chance to feel joy. You wouldn't hear, see, smell, taste, feel...

I hear that you're feeling angry. I'm sorry that you're feeling down right now. :) Could you tell us a bit more about yourself and your situation?

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Can anyone give me a reason not to kill myself?

What about the people in your life that care about you and love you? Leave them hanging and wondering about you all the time and why you did such a thing to yourself ? How do you think they are going to feel ? The things in your future to look forward to will be gone and their is no turning back or second chances once you take your life away . Many of us have wanted to end it all but, continue on ... Because things can and do get better. Things change for the good, and we often learn and grow from it. Find something in your life that you can hang onto or look forward to. Do things that make you happy and content. Focus on the positive and know that you are a worthwhile human being.

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Thank you so much. I really appreciate that comment!

I finally did call the suicide hotline last night. For a mental health group most of you are so HARSH! Much worse than the general populace! Wow!You guys should be ashamed for being so condescending. You actually know what it's like! This should have been a place I could come in crisis.

Thanks again for your humanity. Luna.

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A question for you hadtoomuchpain...

What was it that you were looking to hear when you did make your post? Obviously my own response distressed you -- I apologize for that wasn't my intent. Admittedly, I was thinking about those 8 people who had read your post and perhaps not known what to say, and so, had said nothing and might be burdened as a result.

In my own case, I said something but it still wasn't what you needed to hear.

Perhaps I should have given you this link. I found it helpful at one point: If you are thinking of suicide, read this first....

At any rate, it seems you have moved forward from that space. I hope the individuals you spoke with at the suicide line were able to make some good recommendations for you.

~ Namaste

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Guest ASchwartz

Toomuchpain,

It is not easy but at times it is necessary to use "tough love." You wanted us to give you reasons why you should not kill yourself. It is more important that you provide some reasons why you should not kill yourself.

Keep in mind, or try to, that your post came across as a challenge, or, that is the way it seemed. Nevertheless, can you find reasons why you should not kill yourself?

I don't know if you are returning here. If yes, good, we welcome you and lets workt together. If not, good luck to you.

Allan

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I do feel that it is important to show a little empathy.... Obviously this person was in distress and wanted support. If you are not in the right place to offer it, then perhaps it is bettr not to have writtenanything at all , then to "chalange" this individual or make things worse .. What if it were you feeling that way? You came here , and got the same responses ? I will think twice about ever writing about my own personal experiences , when I am struggling the impulses to self harm .. :)

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A Suggestion...

I wonder if it would be possible to add a sticky to this topic with some resources people can make of immediately if they are feeling strongly suicidal?

I suspect part of hadtoomuchpain's angst was due to the implication that if she posted, some form of assistance would be immediately forthcoming. When that wasn't received, she felt more forlorn and alone with her distress. That meant she then had two things to deal with: her original crisis as coupled with her increased feeling of being alone with that.

Providing a link without the warmth or connection of human companionship does seem a little cold but given that this particular community isn't as active as some, it would at least put some resources into someone's hands in an immediate manner.

ms_cat: I will think twice about ever writing about my own personal experiences , when I am struggling the impulses to self harm.

It's possible you could make such a post and still have to wait for an unknown period of time before anyone responded but at the point someone did, you'd likely receive a different kind of response. This would be because you've participated here for a period of time and therefore, others have some insight into who you are and what sort of issues you might have been dealing with.

Lacking that, the desire might be to say something helpful but what should one say? What if I'd said, "Think of your husband," and her husband had recently passed away and that's why she wanted to kill herself? Would reminding her of her loss have helped her or would it only have reminded her of why she was so sad? Or what if I'd said, "Think of your parents," but her parents had beat her throughout her life and thinking about them only made her more miserable, increasing her desire to end her life? Without a bit of insight into that particular person, there is no way to know what to say.

It's also difficult to know which situation is potentially more alarming -- the fact that someone might commit suicide or the fact that someone might commit suicide and other people will feel responsible because they didn't know what to say. In turn, this could stir up some strong feelings in them, including the possibility of suicidal ideation, despair, depression, hopelessness, powerlessness. Who do you take care of first, and how?

Maybe the best recourse in such instances is to say nothing and instead, direct that individual to suicide resources including their own local suicide hotline or emergency medical services. This is an online site with people in various states of their own distress, healing or recovery and although the avenue to seek immediate aid is possible, it's not a given that you will receive immediate support.

It's possible someone might get lucky and stumble across someone who knows exactly what to say. It's also possible a post could sit there for several hours and potential respondants may still need to establish some sense of history or repoire before knowing what to say to someone who has stated they will kill themselves unless someone says the right words.

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I understand your point SE and apreciate your insight. You are right that it is and can be difficu;t to respond to someone who is knew and feels this way. We have to be sensitive and careful about what we say while still giving support and helpful feedback.

I have been on here for a couple of yrs, and YES have posted several threads about my own personal struggles in the past in regards to self harm. Have had many helpful comments and lots of help in this community. I had even posted in the Hospital while going through a terrible time. My own experiences here have been helpful and very positive.

i like to try and give some of that back be trying to offer support and feedback when i can to others . By choosing words carefully and trying to offer support without being harsh or judgemental and not assuming anything is how I like to do things here.

Thank you :)

BTW>

I really like the idea of offering up resources to someone who feels suicidal .

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Guest SomethingOrOther

(I'm replying to a post that has apparently been taken down.)

you're trying to run guilt trips on the very person who pointed that out in the first place? Well, good luck.

Nobody here is responsible for your decisions and this board is not an alternative to emergency services.

I agree about the sticky that should be put up to make this clear, amongst other things.

Edited by SomethingOrOther
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Hadtoomuchpain, we want you to be safe. I'm sorry that you were upset by the way your post was responded to or not responded to.

All of us are responsible for our own actions. Very often our responses...especially strong responses...have something to do with what is inside ourselves. I hear that you're angry. Do you have a therapist you can talk with about your feelings?

I want to point out that it is considered disrespectful and against board policy to personally attack other members. I understand that you are hurting...I am very sorry for your pain...but I would ask that you not denigrate other members. Discussion is acceptable and can be a learning experience for all of us. Perhaps you might try discussing what behaviors you find upsetting?

I wish you well and hope you are feeling better.

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Guest ASchwartz

Mscat, and Everyone

Mscat, I am surprised by what you wrote about being careful about what you write here in the future. I'm surprised because you get lots of warmth and support here, we love you, I love you and I and others here genuinely feel this.

Eveyone, Now, all, please think about this:

1. Perhaps many of us did come across too strongly to Hadtoomuchpain. If I came across too strong and unfeelingly I apologize.

2. In addition, I want all of you to think about the fact that Hadtoomuchpain had a role in causing this herself and that she would help herself more if she looked at her own behavior. Speaking for myself, I found her first post to be a "dare," a "challenge," meaning that she seemded to be daring us to explain why she should live and without telling us anything about herself. Now, I do am not implying that she is "guilty" of anything but only that she is not aware of what she may do to cause negative responses.

3. Another factor I think we all need to think about is that she reacted to our comments by attempting to make many of us feel guilty. There again, she does not look at herself.

Frankly, we do not have the power to cause her or anyone to commit suicide but she wants everyone to think so.

Mscat, you have been able to respond to "hadtoomuchpain" in ways that really seemed to help her and that is good. Please remember that the reactions she got from some of us have nothing, nothing whatever to do with you or how we feel about you.

By "tough love" I meant that sometimes it helps to confront a person in the hope that they will see themselves more clearly. Well, it did not work this time, that is clear.

Thoughts and comments?

Allan

Edited by ASchwartz
correct grammar
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Thanks Allen for your kind words and thoughts :) My initial response to the OP was that of fear ... Scared that she was in a crisis and felt that she needed urgent support . Other responses helpd me understand more clearly and from a different perspective.

I am confident that i can come here like I always have and talk about my own personal feelings .

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Very often our responses...especially strong responses...have something to do with what is inside ourselves.
Agree with IJ 100%!

It has been very interesting reading the conflict situations that have arisen within this forum. I guess (and I am certainly no expert) these epitomise the problems inherent in e-contact - we are reduced to interpreting the written word only, without the benefit of tone, body language and instantaneous clarification. In a way similar to classical psychoanalysis, where presented with a blank slate (the therapist in therapy and the unclear message here), we tend to project our "own stuff" onto the person/message and thereby often misconstrue the intention altogether. Only problem is while there is (or should be) "containment" within the therapy room where a "good enough" therapist will be able to detoxify anxieties, reinterpret them and hand them back in a safer form - there is very little opportunity for that in this forum and no doubt this is not its function. In fact there often seem to be a chain of projections which often escalate into something completely different from the original intention.

I think that Hadtoomuchpain's original post was a case in point. I think new (and old) members should be encouraged to describe their situations as fully as possible before any judgements/suggestions are made - to me there is just too much room for misinterpretation and perceptual distortion. I quite understand that this is more of a support group forum than a therapeutic advisory forum but I often get the impression that new members do not understand this. I fully agree with the "sticky" idea!

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Allan: I am not implying that she is "guilty" of anything but only that she is not aware of what she may do to cause negative responses.

My interpretation is that toomuchpain was escalating as a means of demonstrating her distress and that this, in fact, diluted her attempts to actually secure the help she wanted for herself. To me, this occurred here:

- 8 people read this and none of them can give me one reason, nuff said

Intentionally or not, she brought 8 other people into the equation. As a respondant, I am now responding to her and those 8 other people.

The situation escalated once more from there:

- I ask for help. and you berate me? I just ask for a reason, any reason. People like you are why I am the way I am. Give me your address and I'll do it on your doorstep. Make you feel all cozy now that you shit on me too? FY

At that point I had to give some consideration to myself.

I would ... bear witness to a catastrophic tragedy that involved the deaths of others – people I felt a distorted sense of responsibility for, along with an accompanying sense of distorted guilt for the circumstances of their tragic and premature deaths.

Source

I chose to step back and not engage further. I don't wish to be held responsible for the deaths of other people when I have no control over those events. It would not be wise of me nor responsible to do so. Nonetheless, it was obvious that toomuchpain's distress was increasing, not decreasing.

I have since pondered these statements as well...

- give me a reason

- give me one reason

- I just ask for a reason, any reason.

I had complied with her request. I did provide a reason, one reason, any reason but obviously this wasn't what she was really seeking although she may have thought any reason would do. It wasn't until she began getting some reasons back that she could identify she wasn't looking for any reason, she was looking for a specific reason, which she could recognize when she saw it:

- Whoa everyone - a little kindness with each other, please?

Kindness appears to have been what she wanted and needed but she wasn't able to ask for that in a manner that would allow her needs to be met. Instead, like many people who have been hurt and who have difficulty with trusting, those barriers of defense came up that served as a barrier to connection -- people stepped back instead of stepping closer.

Of course, this is why people go into therapy. So they can learn to recognize and identify what it is they need and further, be able to accept their own feelings of vulnerabity. Both are difficult tasks and an individual may need help learning them if they didn't learn them in those early parental relationships.

Ideally, they can then learn how to ask for what they need in a way that they can be heard. That still doesn't guarantee that a person will get what they need (or want) but at least their own barriers are out of the way.

Meantime, if toomuchpain returns to respond I would ask her to reflect upon the statement Luna made that resonated with her: Whoa everyone - a little kindness with each other, please? I, and others, are also deserving of kindness. I am not deserving of her wrath. I'm not a professional. I'm not her mother. I'm not her builder. I didn't bilk her out of $6000. I didn't take away her dream of a home. I am a human being who knows what it is to be in too much pain and to move forward from there. I'm also not a good scapegoat, although I have been in the past.

~ Namaste

Edited by spiritual_emergency
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Yes, my statement as SpiritEm quoted above, was intended for EVERYONE to be kind, which is why I wrote "each other".

It's sad but true, that others cannot be blamed for our own actions, especially not online in a mutual support group such as this. We have to own our actions. Others cannot always be expected to meet our needs, especially not online. This is an unfair burden to place upon anyone else. Support, in the form we might want it, is not guaranteed here, not even in the "Urgent Need" room. It may sound harsh and I'm sorry about that but it is, unfortunately the reality of this medium and this forum.

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