randomperson Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Thank you Athena that was a great post. The link wasn't working for me but I did do a search on that term and ran across this:People who are anxious or preoccupied with attachment tend to agree with the following statements: "I want to be completely emotionally intimate with others, but I often find that others are reluctant to get as close as I would like. I am uncomfortable being without close relationships, but I sometimes worry that others don't value me as much as I value them." People with this style of attachment seek high levels of intimacy, approval, and responsiveness from their partners. They sometimes value intimacy to such an extent that they become overly dependent on their partners. Compared to securely attached people, people who are anxious or preoccupied with attachment tend to have less positive views about themselves. They often doubt their worth as a partner and blame themselves for their partners' lack of responsiveness. They also have less positive views about their partners because they do not trust in people's good intentions. People who are anxious or preoccupied with attachment may experience high levels of emotional expressiveness, worry, and impulsiveness in their relationships.Yep that does describe me. So the question is what can I do to really get better? Not just a mental bandage to tied me over until the next stressful time in my life?The page I found didn't describe this very well. What causes it, did you say trauma during childhood?I wonder if I caused all of my relationships problems in the past, hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Sadgreeneyes, Random,I fear that we will attract people who use and abuse us until we get a healthy sense of self worth. Unfortunately, we can't just wave a magic wand and get it. As SGE said the problems start from childhood. Random, you asked if it is from childhood trauma. It can be, or it can be from less obvious problems like a problem with the infant/mother bonding or inconsistency between appropriate and neglectful responses to a child's needs, or other parenting problems. They both have their challenges: Childhood trauma would IMHO seem to be the more damaging, but as it is a more obvious cause, at least it would provide some clues as to treatment. Mother/infant bonding problems and inconsistent parenting can be really hard to detect (both highly likely in my case) and can be dismissed by third parties (relatives especially - who are reluctant to see your mother as anything but a wonderful person - which in my case is true, and my Mom IS wonderful, but that still has nothing to do with bonding or lack thereof). CBT therapists can also be very dismissive as well. I am speaking in both cases, from personal experience. I have even told myself "Just grow up", recognizing my own tendency to "act out" - but if you were not given the tools (secure attachment with primary caregiver, among other things) to grow up properly, that can be a pretty tall order. Random, i'm sorry you couldn't pull up the link - it is the wikipedia one on attachment. There's a link within it which goes into more detail on adult attachment which i haven't read yet but am anxious to. I was thinking today, perhaps if we could just practice standing up for ourselves every day with the different people we interact with, that would help. My sister is the queen of standing up for herself, however she is too extreme - to the point of rudeness, snobbery, arrogance and condescension. That is part of my problem, how to stand up for myself without taking on these nasty traits. So i have to find a more moderate role model, or maybe i'll just ask my therapist how he would have handled each situation as they come up then I hope I will eventually figure out how to do this for myself.Random, you wondered if you caused your relationship problems in the past (I'm hoping Allan will jump in here:rolleyes:). I ask myself the same question. Frankly, I don't think I caused mine so much as I allowed them to happen. I actually talked about my past relationships today with my therapist in the context of having read the attachment article. It was quite a revelation - three were foreigners, who I knew up front would be going home soon/eventually. Two i knew were inappropriate, but seemed like a good idea in the short term, one asked me to marry him (stupidly, I said yes) and one was accused of engaging in a massively perverted act by my best friend (still an unsolved mystery to this day 23 years later but caused enough doubt for me to completely lose interest in the guy). So did I cause the relationship problems? No - Five appear to have been purposely short term. One - I was stuck in the impossible position of wondering who to believe - my best friend or my boyfriend, and although I gave him the benefit of the doubt, without resolution the doubt just killed my feelings for him eventually. And the final one - who I married - I married for seemingly good reasons - "we were friends", "I liked his parents and family" "he seemed to be a practical choice", "we seemed to have lots in common", "I could picture having kids with him". Can you spot the missing ingredients here? "love", "passion", "respect" - all were missing. So was that one my fault? Partly, I suppose - but I never, ever could have seen what was coming (I think I've described his bad traits on this site ad nauseum so will not go into them here). [patting myself on the back for my restraint as I want to remain positive - WOW - it CAN be done:eek:]So, I think I can pretty much say, I did not cause the relationship problems but I most definitely made wrong choices and had I put much thought into them, I would have saved myself a lot of time. I think for me, I need to be more proactive in the circles in which my "ideal" mate is likely to be found. Since my therapist said I'm not ready for something long term, my thoughts eventually went to "OK, I'll just stick with casual" - practice sessions, if you will. However even assuming you cover the obvious problems ie: practice safe sex and tell the other party it's just short term right up front, I can still see some more serious potential problems with "casual" - 1) what if you end up bonding with somebody inappropriate AGAIN or 2) what if it does end up being your soul mate but you mess it up because you still haven't solved your self worth problems? or 3) how are you going to feel about yourself afterwords from a moral standpoint with "casual"?OK, I think this post has timed out about a dozen times, it's time to end it. I hope you are both having a wonderful day:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 I am absolutely anxious-preoccupied. After reading this I think maybe I have to try let things happen naturally, like my husband said.But then again my husband show signs of both dismissive- avoidant and fearful-avoidant:confused:So how its gonna go I have no clue:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted March 8, 2011 Report Share Posted March 8, 2011 Sadgreeneyes - is therapy an option for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Athena, I am waiting to get free therapist/help from the state, will go on thursday asking them what will happen with their promise to get me help.You know, I am not happy with my marriage. I try to repress his threat not to come say to him I want children. It only put more doubt in me is he out for visa only. I think he doesnt want children because it is with me as he wants to leave me when he gets permanent stay. And it hurts me because we planned to become a family,he broke our agreement which is so far from fair and threatened me, I was sure I would have it all this time, be happy and have family, that I always would have something with him. I dont want to grow old alone. That he took away from me this when we had agreed before marriage has damaged my trust in him. Much have damaged my trust in him. I am unhappy. And I am too scared to bring this topic up again as it will either lead to him blow up or he´d leave me.Sometimes when I imagine I am alone and not married anymore I feel relieved because this sick insecure feeling is eating me up, it makes me very tired, but this relief only last for a few seconds because if I knew he really wasnt there anymore I would really cry and miss him and I would never know would/could he love me. And to never know would kill me even more.I just know I am very unhappy right now. I go around in between, feeling/knowing the tears are not far from showing in my eyes, but I repress it, for the most I just feel like I have an open sore in my chest. Just anxious, sad and unhappy.I wonder if it feels like this because I have been abused? because that is what we all say here and it is right, right?I mean I wouldnt feel so bad if I wasnt being abused, why would a husband be so cruel and then again be cruel and threaten his wife twice? the first threat he took back when I said he just had to leave me then Must be because he´s an abuser? I am tired of doubting my own opinion. My opinon is he has been abusive, so why do I need confirmation again from you all here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I even said to him in a sentence that maybe it would be better I just did go jump outside the bridge here. I dont do that, but I´m just so tired being the one who work in the marriage while he only has hurt me lately.When I go see him I do know that I will not lift a finger to make anything work between us before he does ( when it comes to the love) I wont give anything of myself before he does. I am done. If he wants to save the marriage he can be the one to work a little for a change. I have told him before its up to him and he has mentioned this himself once without me bringing it up, so I know he remember my words. Why should I work my ass off all the time to make someone love me??? doesnt work that way. So now he can work. If he doesnt then I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I do at least know I could never treat someone I love or care about like the way he has treated me. And I do at least know that if I saw another person being treated like this I would feel so sorry for that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athena Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Glad to hear you are working on getting therapy. Regarding: is this abuse? Absolutely, in my opinion anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's already admitted he only wanted to marry you to get into the country, that he doesn't want kids with you, doesn't love you. He is manipulative, uses you, threatens you, doesn't appear to care about your needs at all, only his own. Sure sounds like emotional abuse to me. Why on earth would you want to grow old with this man? It sounds like it would be a living hell. Do not wait for him to change. Endless kindness will not change him. It will only encourage him to be even meaner because he knows you will take it. I don't believe fighting back will change him either. You have already told him how much he is hurting you and that doesn't stop him, so i don't believe standing up for yourself is going to work with this man. You are right to make him work to save the marriage if he wants. That will show you what he's made of once and for all.That "open sore" in your chest - I have something similar. Mine is like a hand squeezing my heart, or a heavy stone constantly sitting on top of it. I notice its absence when I listen to music that moves me, when I really connect with my kids, when i feel love for another person and when I do something I am passionate about. It also went away for a three week period early in my therapy. I had suspected it was from a massive bonding that occurred with my therapist. After reading the attachment material, I am pretty much certain of it. I'm still trying to figure out why it came back again- there are several reasons i can think of why that occurred. At any rate, I'm going to pay a lot more attention to this "pain in my chest" in the future, in particular whatever makes it go away as I feel that will put me on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yes you are right he has said he doesnt want kids, this he said clearly and with a threat. He didnt say literally "I marry you because I want out of the country", we had a heated argument as I didnt have the money to get him here to stay with me and I used a tone that could easily be taken for mocking,had a grin on my face saying what he would do then marry another women with more money??, so I am not sure did he threw out the answer "yes maybe" because of me sounding the way I did, he sounded a mix of insulted, hurt and annoyed when he said it. I may probably have sounded like I didnt care what happened. I was trying to see would he care if I didnt have the money, but I might have used a wrong tone, so I´m not sure did he say it in affectivity feeling hurt or insulted. This isnt a excuse I make up, it is fact how it was.But anyway, its true he wanted this divorce out of the blue as he knew I didnt have the money to get him to stay with me. And that we wouldnt be happy and then he came with all the abusive words. I am pretty sure he was so cruel because he felt threatened plus at same time he probably found out its best to end it, and I am very sure he loves the visa more than any woman. But I am still not 100% sure what his "real" mind is. I know there is no life for us down there. No place to live alone,not enough salary. He doesnt own anything. But thats not excuse saying he´ll divorce, that was just cruel. He sat there torturing me wanting me to say what I thought about the divorce even I had said ok we will divorce, what more could I say, could he please leave me alone now, but no, that wasnt good enough, he still sat there wanting me to say what I now thought, so I am sure he punished me saying he´ll end the marriage to break me down. But yes he did change opinion when he heard I could fix the money, main reason is he wants out of the country. He didnt say right out he didnt love me either, just that he did feel, but not much and that the feelings would come when we were together. I do of course know people has to be happy and stay together to develope feelings and that its difficult getting any feelings if arguing much over distance which I was little responsible for. Because I attach with once, like anxiety-preoccupied. But to say what he said was cruel and not something you say anyway, he was ice cold and without empathy. I do agree this man is abusive and I think too its not possible to change him, I do have a little hope things could change, but those things he said, that he doesnt want kids and threaten me with that plus the threat about a marriage without affection, these two things are what makes me sure he is an abuser.So it doesnt matter really what I think about anything else as a normal man would never threaten his wife with a marriage without closeness. Arrg, I dont even know can I stand being with him anyway after this, knowing that he probably just uses me for sex next time. Not much fun. Its horrible. He has now said all will be fine, I doubt it but I will go down see how he behave, I think it will help me determine to end this marriage or not. I will let him do the work and if he is the same emotionally detached person with no desire to be close to me then I think I have had enough. There is limits. Before I came down he said he would eat me like a lion, my god where did that lion go, not much of a lion, rather a mouse. And I know why he ddnt want me to come down see him, he admitted right out he was afraid being the same as last time, not being affectionate. Well, ok he was virgin, but anyway. He should be full of desire if he was sexually attracted to me, as he say he is. So he´s afraid he´ll be the same, now he say it will be better and fine with little patient, so lets see.I think you describe the feeling in the chest better than me, I also feel like theres a heavy stone but its laying in the middle of the chest and its aching like a "anxiety aching" and yes maybe little to the left to the heart, making discomfort. But I do also have this sick hurt feeling sometimes, this feeling is coming when I think of all he has said that hurt me. Then that sick hurt feeling is sitting there a while even my thoughts have wandered to other things about him and me. All in all its a constant emptiness and sick heavy feeling. He has replaced my hope and happiness to have met him with anxiety and hurt.He hasnt hurt me after this incident, but if he does a couple times more I will know that this is his character and that he will not change.I am also thinking he wont be able to treat me good in the long run if this is who he is, and my country send people back if things are not right, if we divorce or if husbands are abusive. He would be in trouble. If he thinks he can get away with this behavior, I do pray he is wrong, I wont put up with being emotionally abused. So hopefully I can then divorce without hurting "too much" and find a good man who treats me nice and wants children or at least are open for it. That I can take back my life and start new. And maybe I can be happy and loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ASchwartz Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sadgreeneyes,You are trying to get into his head and you are imagining you know what he thinks as well as the reasons why he behaves as he does towards you. It is simply not possible to do this because no can get into another person's head. All we know is how another person treats us. He treats you abusively and that is all that should matter. That is why, in my opinion, you shouldn't go to see him. Of course, this is in the area of my opinion and you have to make choices for your own life.Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensitive_woman Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Why do people become abusive later on? If at first they are so loving and think the world about someone, why cant they be like that forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomperson Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Why do people become abusive later on? If at first they are so loving and think the world about someone, why cant they be like that forever? Most abusers seem really great when you first meet them. It is a pretty common trait for abusive people to seem great on the outside, and have very high charisma. Often you can tell who is abusive not by the actions of the abuser but the traits and actions of the family that lives with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Hi Allan, sensitive and random,I know I may shouldn´t go see him as he probably wont change, I just need to see how things would be. Tonight he said "talk" to me again and it lead to me saying one of the reasons why I was quiet, I told him a person need to be stable for a marriage to function and for people to be safe and able to relax, said that if a person change opinions out of the blue and changing personality in one second then that is creating much damage on a marriage and it is very very scary thing. Told him there need to be stable feelings not switching like the light on and off. Even he heard me and said he agreed and said it is true, even he asked me what people do if they cannot relax then, I said then people talk about it, he mumbled a yes. Even he heard me and agreed he probably wont be able to swallow this with seriousness in long term and think about his behavior.But as you say Allan, its right I cant know what`s in his mind, I can only speculate and thats what I`m doing, but I know though that doesn´t help me.Its right what matters is how a person treats you.Sensitive, reading about abusers, its says that when you first meet your abuser, the abusive person has no plan there and then to abuse you later on, but it happens as his world is twisted and as the relationship develops he thinks the victim is the one who´s at fault in the relationship, so he feels justified to abuse her. Its so much to learn about abusers, so many books about it, the different types of abusers and how they act and their different tactics. Every abuser is unique as they can operate so differently from another abuser. I have read much in the book "Inside the mind of angry and controlling men" by Lundy Bancroft. It explains how abuse begins. Its worth reading.We can know a person is abusive both by the way he/she act and like random says by the affect it has on other people who live with them. I have not yet lived with my abuser, but do already know he´s an abuser by his acts and how I feel. So you dont have to live with an abuser to know a person is abusive. Even I talked with him about his behavior ( said to him I was shocked) I am not sure did it have any affect on him more than there and then if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadgreeneyes Posted March 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I also said to him if I was another woman she would have run for her life. But that I´m still here. I told him how he changed personality so quick and suddenly changed back to who he was. I told about the tense feelings that had arise after an incident like he caused.We know he is abusive. I read narcissism can be mistaken for bipolar disorder. Not that it matters as he is abusive no matter what it is with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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