I have a small penis

[2112_2112]

I'm sure Dr. Schwartz is competent professional and a very nice person - but please mind that I'm not attacking the person here, but the idea he's expressing, so if I come off as not very nice in your opinion please consider that sometimes, especially if you're discussing something with somebody which completely dismiss your point of view on the basis of "you have no perspective", it's necessary to be a little pointy when it comes to choice of words.

Personally, I don't hate myself. I realize my sex life is just a part of my life, I have so much more in my life than that and I'm so happy for it. Still, it really, really sucks to have a small penis, firstly because of all the problems that relate to it (which Dr. Schwartz absolutely dismiss as if they were imaginary) and secondly because you can do absolutely nothing to change it, which leads to feelings of bleak impotence. It's horrible and I can understand why Dr. Schwartz's "plan of action" is to make people like me delusional about their state - there's basically no other solution to achieve peace of mind.

I'm not here solely to "disprove" Dr. Schwartz. I also wanted to leave a memento for other people like me to see, who feel insulted by people playing down on their disability. I have no "anger" against Dr. Schwartz, I don't even know him, and I'm sure he's a nice person, but writing with that tone about something which is a serious disability in a public blog and then closing comments is an act of intellectual dishonesty I can't personally stand.

[Notdoneyet]

I think it would be safe to say that people who don't share our affliction have no way of understanding our dilemma. It's much the same as some women insisting that "size doesn't matter" then following that with "but my SO is considerably larger than average".:cool:

[feelingbetter]

If those who insist that this issue can state unequivocally that they have managed to lead a "normal married life" while harnessed to a smaller that average sized body part, then it may be more convincing.

Having lost my mate whom I provided everything "possible" to simply because I didn't measure up to her standards, I think I can consider myself familiar with the nuances of this problem.

I now choose to live the remainder of my life as a single person who would consider myself skeptical of women who insist that "size doesn't matter" and would suspect they have financial reasons for stating such to me.

This hasn't prevented me from having a active social life. It just keeps the expectations to a short term life span.

Hello notyetdone, I have a lower average size and I truly believe I have had and continue to have more than ever before a truly normal (if there truly is such a thing) married life for 19 years now. I secretly fretted and stayed depressed because I had convinced myself my wife was dishonest or didn't know what she was missing. Meanwhile, she had no idea I felt so awful about something she thought was just great. That's an example of how skewed perspective can be. We're both looking at the same penis and having the same sex and I'm thinking how lacking it must be while she's thinking she may pass out from the pleasure. I actually found out she had told her friends how great our sex is and that if we ever got a divorce it would not be over sex. She went so far as to say when we had hit rough patches and went to counseling to avoid divorce, she was thinking to herself how she would miss the intimacy and pleasure we shared because her friends didn't seem to be that into sex with their husbands including the larger guys simply due to a lack of emotional connection. So she was afraid any new guy wouldn't "fill the bill" like I had done.. Actually one friend filed for divorce stating the reason was her husband was above average in size and could not be gentle with her so sex was a painful chore. A coworker of mine stated her husband was on the large size and it took 7-8 years before they could have decent sex and he still has to be careful. She loved him so she stayed and made it work, but she says she really wished he'd been smaller so the sex wouldn't have been so much work.

I recognize many women may view a man as simply a penis to fill that one need they can't fill themselves but that is their problem not ours and I truly would not want to be with a woman whose view of great sex is narrowed down to the difference in sensation between an average (4-6) penis versus an above average. I refuse to believe this is a healthy view for them to take but I recognize its their right to take that view. While that view eliminates that woman as a partner, her view doesn't define my worth or ability as a sex mate in the real world, just in her twisted world.

That being said, I truly believe most allusions women make to penis size issues at least directed at it being inadequate are efforts on their part to hurt or belittle a man for some

reason and do not truly reflect how that penis really did feel during sex. Maybe she thinks your ego needs to be brought down, maybe she is hurting emotionally and blames you so she wants you to hurt as badly as she does. Every decent woman I've ever talked to has said this and also admitted they never considered how deeply the guy would hurt because they were only focused on their own hurt. No truly good woman I've ever talked to said that penis size affected their sexual fulfillment --even the ones who said they like the feeling of being more filled up admitted that feeling did not make or break their satisfaction from the encounter. Two factors seem to affect sexual satisfaction the most--physical fitness/firmness of erection and most importantly, the depth of her emotional intimacy with her partner. Of course, it is assumed he is a thoughtful, knowledgeable lover who learns her body and what makes her feel really good. There are so many ways in addition to penetration to fully satisfy a sex partner. Attitude on his and her part makes or breaks the experience the vast majority of the time.

I recognize different areas may have differently slanted societal views than my area but I maintain no woman has the ability to determine what I can do or what I'm worth. Its her problem, not mine.

[feelingbetter]

I'm sure Dr. Schwartz is competent professional and a very nice person - but please mind that I'm not attacking the person here, but the idea he's expressing, so if I come off as not very nice in your opinion please consider that sometimes, especially if you're discussing something with somebody which completely dismiss your point of view on the basis of "you have no perspective", it's necessary to be a little pointy when it comes to choice of words.

Personally, I don't hate myself. I realize my sex life is just a part of my life, I have so much more in my life than that and I'm so happy for it. Still, it really, really sucks to have a small penis, firstly because of all the problems that relate to it (which Dr. Schwartz absolutely dismiss as if they were imaginary) and secondly because you can do absolutely nothing to change it, which leads to feelings of bleak impotence. It's horrible and I can understand why Dr. Schwartz's "plan of action" is to make people like me delusional about their state - there's basically no other solution to achieve peace of mind.

I'm not here solely to "disprove" Dr. Schwartz. I also wanted to leave a memento for other people like me to see, who feel insulted by people playing down on their disability. I have no "anger" against Dr. Schwartz, I don't even know him, and I'm sure he's a nice person, but writing with that tone about something which is a serious disability in a public blog and then closing comments is an act of intellectual dishonesty I can't personally stand.

Man, I really do feel your pain in your words. I don't think anyone has gotten close to a really good method for helping achieve a healthy resolution to your dilemma. Please recognize that no one is intending, I believe, to negate your pain nor the fact that you have a VERY serious issue on your hands. It is simply that people like me realize that there's more going on here than "no woman can ever be pleased with my penis" but we just don't know the best way to open your eyes to those other aspects and to the fact that you really can have a woman in your life who will be fulfilled by you physically and emotionally. Unfortunately, unless we can explore other avenues and aspects of yourself and your interaction with women, you will remain locked into the current state of existence growing more resentful and bitter toward "those women" who "put" you here. In reality, we can't be put into a frame of mind by others, we use their influence to put ourselves there. Only we can get ourselves out of it as well. It is hard to find a worthy mate no matter the size of ones penis. I still wish you could see that any woman who makes or breaks a relationship based solely on the difference in sensation between 4.5 and 7 inches is not a good partner to begin with and you really are better off without a woman who puts that level of emphasis on that one thing out of all the nonsexual as well as sexual items you bring to the table. I would like to hear some more details about how you approached these women, their situations and what they said specifically to make you believe that in each case your size was the sole determining factor in breaking it off. I really think more is going here than what you're focused so intently upon--trust me I've had such a focus before and now see it was not as I was convinced it was. Thanks man.

[feelingbetter]

2112, I'm just throwing out thoughts as they occur since there is no cookie cutter method here. Going back to your original post, you painted a picture in my head that you have met and fairly quickly bedded possibly hundreds of women. With the exception of a few uglier ones you didn't want, every single woman had an obvious look of disappointment immediately upon seeing your penis and broke up with you very quickly after sex with you. Every one of these women either outright or strongly insinuated that your penis was the sole reason for rejecting you. Is this an accurate picture of what has happened to you my friend?

FB

[feelingbetter]

I think its fairly apparent to anyone that has spent hours in internet chat sites as well as speaking openly and honestly with real live women that while there may be the occasional female that has arranged her priorities such that she would discard a guy based solely on penis size, the fact is the majority of women do not place such a high premium on large penis. This is fortunate since 80% or so of the guys they sleep with are going be average to smallish. There'd be tons of sexually frustrated women out there! (Actually there are lots of sexually frustrated women but its because guys have largely lost the art of being a great lover and instead of recapturing that, we brood and obsess over penis size) So, I submit if the majority of women reject you, there's a personality problem, not a penis problem. Further, if they mention penis size, either they are as confused on relationships as we are or your personality rubs them so much the wrong way they may feel like "bringing you down a few notches". So, if your goal is to bed women who don't know what a real relationship is about and who are only looking to get pounded by a big penis, then yes, your penis is a handicap. Before justifying a womans right to reject men based on penis size, ask yourself what you would think of a man who meets a beautiful smart funny loving woman who thinks he is great, but then that guy rejects her because he doesn't like the shape of her vulva or how tight her vagina is. You'd think he was shallow and disgusting. So, why don't we think the same about a woman who does that? Thankfully, those women are uncommon and most base a relationship on personality and feelings, not body parts.

[feelingbetter]

Regarding what is "sexual satisfaction", it is difficult for many men to grasp what this means to most women. This is because for most guys, sexual satisfaction is mostly linked to the physical component and if he ejaculates, satisfaction ensues. Of course, sharing the experience with a partner he cares deeply about is much much better than a one night stand but one night stands will do for a while. For women, there is definitely a physical component also, but the psychological aspect carries the lions share of making her feel satisfied. Pretty much any caring thoughtful knowledgeable skilled man can fulfill her physical needs. But, we neglect to fulfill her need for emotional intimacy and romance. The stage has to be set emotionally for a woman to truly feel satisfied by her partner. That involves so much more than a few drinks and some witty convo out of The Mystery Method or like seduction text. This arena is where we guys fall short, not inside our pants but inside their heads. Its hard, that's why most don't bother. Sadly, many women know somethings missing but don't know what. So, they feel unfulfilled and may jump from guy to guy looking for that one that can fill the "physical void" until they meet a guy who shows them what a true man and lover is all about.

[flander]

I think the personality problem here is that 2112 is dating attractive, successful type-A women who don't want to settle for 2nd best in any aspect of their life. There is also a quite common term for those women who you think are uncommon: size queens. If you don't think women care a lot about the body parts, you apparently haven't read this: http://jezebel.com/5652114/college-girls-power-point-fuck-list-goes-viral-gallery which includes gems like

Have you ever opened up a beautifully wrapped present on Christmas morning? Did you carefully peel back the layers of tissue paper and eagerly shake out its contents, excited beyond belief with the anticipation of seeing your dream gift? And then did you ever feel your smile plummet to the floor, and had to force every fiber of your being to appear excited as you thanked your grandpa for the single practical pair of coarse, grey wool socks now lying in your lap? If so, you might be able to appreciate and comprehend my emotions as I seductively eased down his striped boxers to unveil...Wait...Was that his dick? No, it couldn't possibly be...But yes. Yes It was. That goregous, perfect body of his was supporting a penile structure so disproportionately small that I had to take several deep breaths and force a smile before commencing the hookup session, lying every few minutes (when asked) about how he was "the biggest I had ever seen". Also he came pretty damn quickly.

and lots of positive comments about the larger than average subjects.

[2112_2112]

Her narration describes my experience to a T - they're extremely excited until they see my penis, you can definitely smell the awkward and the disappointment after that. Most of them think they're doing a good job at concealing it but it definitely shows.

Pretty much any caring thoughtful knowledgeable skilled man can fulfill her physical needs.

That is just false in my experience, feelingbetter. I know it hurts when you know that no matter what you do or try there's nothing you can do about it, but it's true. If you want to believe it that's okay but don't say as if it were real, because it's not.

[flander]

Pretty much any caring thoughtful knowledgeable skilled man can fulfill her physical needs.

That is just false in my experience, feelingbetter. I know it hurts when you know that no matter what you do or try there's nothing you can do about it, but it's true. If you want to believe it that's okay but don't say as if it were real, because it's not.

Personally, I can't see any guy who has ever heard "are you in yet?" believing feelingbetter's statement. IMHO, it seems like it came from some self help fantasy land.

[feelingbetter]

Her narration describes my experience to a T - they're extremely excited until they see my penis, you can definitely smell the awkward and the disappointment after that. Most of them think they're doing a good job at concealing it but it definitely shows.

That is just false in my experience, feelingbetter. I know it hurts when you know that no matter what you do or try there's nothing you can do about it, but it's true. If you want to believe it that's okay but don't say as if it were real, because it's not.

I really wish I could make it clearer. You guys are going after women who have no concept of a meaningful relationship is or what truly satisfying sex is. First of all, you guys are in no way second best. Sure, none of us--including these witches you hold in such high regard, are perfect. That is the basis for a meaningful relationship-to know someone with all their strengths and weaknesses, to cherish them as they are and to work together to strengthen and enjoy each other. Its a process, it takes hard work. Only through this process will each of you grow as individuals and as a couple. You really think a large penis accomplishes a meaningful relationship? BS, no more than big hooters do. You think if two perfect people get together and live a perfect life that that is reality? In todays super feminist society, sure you can find sick writings like that Jezebel thing and focus all your energy on that filth. Let that kind of male hate nonsense dictate who you are. Where will that get you? Why haven't these "highly desirable" women already been snatched up by one of the billions of guys who are bigger than you think you are? If they have so many options, why are they still looking? You have to see this kind of hate directed at men doesn't stem from a healthy female mind. Again, if you went online and posted that she was beautiful, perfect body but then her vagina wasn't tight enough, you'd be labeled a sick pathetic bastard--women wouldn't say "wow, there's a smart accomplished man who knows what he wants". Its ludicrous. Get away from the witches. Go after decent women who have a real perspective on life. Get to know each other. Connect for a few weeks. Then, if it feels right, move on to physical. I guarantee your success rate and satisfaction level for both parties will be much greater. Or, you can continue your method and believe that uber feminist man hate dictates what you're worth. Stay miserable. It really is your choice but you HAVE to change your view and approach to relationships to get better. If you don't want to get better, there's nothing anyone can say or do to help you.

[feelingbetter]

I think it's well within someone's right to reject somebody for whatever they want. It's how you reject the person. If a woman wants a man with a big penis I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with a women who thinks it's okay to make fun of a man because he has a small or even average penis. Women who reject a man because of his penis and then tell all their friends are bitches. If a woman does it the right way, keeps it to herself and rejects the guy, and least she's showing some respect and in the long term saving a lot more grief.

How often do men reject a women because of vagina size? I've never heard of this one outside the Internet. I think men are more likely to go off a women if she puts on too much weight.

If you think about it, we're all shallow to some extent. To most men, how a women looks matters quite a bit, especially younger

Many men love big women. Most men stick with their women even if they gain weight and vice versa. Weight can also be changed, penis size can't and shouldn't. You can draw up all the analogies you like but it doesn't change the fact that putting this much emphasis on one aspect of a relationship is a recipe for disaster. Why do you guys insist on finding ways to prove your inadequacy instead of focusing your energy on discovering you are capable of being a great companion and lover if you go after the right type? Going after superficial tramps wont get you anywhere regardless of your penis size. Someone with that mentality simply doesn't have what it takes to make a long term partner--it wouldn't take long before your big shlong isn't enough anymore, then what's your basis to stay together?

[feelingbetter]

Personally, I can't see any guy who has ever heard "are you in yet?" believing feelingbetter's statement. IMHO, it seems like it came from some self help fantasy land.

My wifes first words when she saw my penis was "is that it"? I was devastated. I questioned her about it years later. She had shown so much interest in playing with it and moving on to sex that I swallowed my feelings and went with it, assuming I'd just get the same response from any subsequent women anyway. She is an Indonesian girl and she had heard prostitutes in her town say that white men (mostly australian) have penises as big as a banana flower. Now, a banana flower is HUGE bigger than any penis I've ever seen. So, from her perspective, she was terrified it would be that big. But, my perspective confirmed my worst fears--she was disappointed. Her perspective was she was relieved it wasn't huge. It took 19 years for me to straighten that "first look" scenario out-- I secretly obsessed over it and she just about never convinced me she was telling the truth. The guy she had before me forced her to have sex. He was bigger than me and she says he hurt her at first but even later when she stopped fighting him it didn't hurt, she never orgasmed and hated it because she hated the guy. So even though she gave up and tried to enjoy the physical, it wouldn't happen. And yes, once I wasn't fully hard and she was very very wet. I entered from behind and got the "is it in yet" bless her heart, she had no idea how much that hurt me. Since women have no concept of how deeply sensitive we guys are about our penises, they often make inadvertent comments that we take very very seriously. To me, it would be like me asking her "are you wet yet " and she taking that as a sign that I view her as inadequate as a lover and her going into a deep depression over it. I realize that's not a great analogy but it gets the point across. One incident doesn't define you. She has had many many orgasms from many methods including penetration. So, yeah, I've gotten the "is it in yet" before. I let it get to me but realize now it wasn't the huge deal I made it out to be. Now, everything I write is concerning men in the 4-6 inch range who think they're too small to be a good lover. If you have a micropenis, I am not equipped to advise. I know there are women out there who will take you and love you as well as enjoy sex with you, but I can understand she may be harder to find. I would argue that such a woman would make the most awesome partner a man could have, so she'd be well worth looking for.

[feelingbetter]

I think it's well within someone's right to reject somebody for whatever they want. It's how you reject the person. If a woman wants a man with a big penis I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with a women who thinks it's okay to make fun of a man because he has a small or even average penis. Women who reject a man because of his penis and then tell all their friends are bitches. If a woman does it the right way, keeps it to herself and rejects the guy, and least she's showing some respect and in the long term saving a lot more grief.

How often do men reject a women because of vagina size? I've never heard of this one outside the Internet. I think men are more likely to go off a women if she puts on too much weight.

If you think about it, we're all shallow to some extent. To most men, how a women looks matters quite a bit, especially younger men.

Skynight, there are some very subtle nuances on this subject that must be recognized. I never said its not someones right to accept or reject a partner based on whatever they deem necessary. Its is important to recognize the APPROPRIATENESS of that persons mentality. Its my right to call someone a bitch for saying hello to me, but it reflects a character flaw within me if I do so. I can reject a woman because I don't like the way her 3rd toe on the left foot looks. That's my right. But that doesn't mean that woman is flawed or incapable of being an awesome partner. Maybe the next guy will think her toe is just grand. Just because its our right doesn't make it proper. What I'm trying to show here is that out of the entire myriad of complex things that make a great relationship, if a person singles out something like the difference in sensation between a 4.5 or 7 inch penis or the tightness of a vagina, that is the person who has priorities arranged in such a way as to make them a very poor choice for a partner. Partnering with a person with that kind of value system is not going to go the distance, big penis or not. By the arguments on this forum, if a man has a large penis, he will easily move into and keep a long lasting and fulfilling relationship since he can adequately satisfy these screwed up women. I have had plenty of friends in the above average size department and they've had so much more trouble keeping a relationship going than I have. So, I wish these guys could see that viewpoint and approach to relationships and life by the guy AND the girl are what make for a lasting fulfilling life and sexual experience. Our bodies and our parts play a role, but they don't write the script--our minds do.

[feelingbetter]

Guys (and gals if there are any), I think you realize I have an entirely different view of the "problem" here than most of you. I want to explain that I am not here in any way to attack or belittle in any way (except for toward women who hate men just as I would men who hate women). I sincerely think you can learn to see things differently and be at peace with yourself and your penis. Does this state of existence guarantee you'll quickly meet the girl of your dreams and go off into a perfect sunset of bliss? Of course not, that's not reality. Life is hard regardless of your physical or mental attributes. Its so hard that if you are going to partner up with someone for life, it necessarily has to be based on much deeper principles than "boy his penis really filled me up".

Now, up until a year ago, I would have argued vehemently that I was completely and totally sexually lacking because I couldn't pound my wifes cervix like the guys in porn. So much wasted energy on nonsense. Now, I have come to realize within the proper context, I am more than capable of being a great lover and that my smallish penis can give a very pleasurable sensation, but more importantly, its just one aspect of a great sexual encounter and for women who truly know their bodies and who can appreciate a complete and fulfilling sexual experience, its not a solo act that makes or breaks the show. Does this mean I can go out to a bar and bang any girl in there and impress her? No but that's so far from what it means to be a man and lover that that thought doesn't bother me in the least now.

I find it amusing some people think I have never suffered from the pain of hating my penis and crying from the intense worthlessness that comes with overwhelming "knowledge" of crippling inadequacy that prevented me from accomplishing the pinnacle of the male essence--namely to completely sexually satisfy a woman. Some seem to think I'm some guy with a big penis who just got the bright idea to come to a mental health site and seek you guys out to feed you a line of "BS" for some undefined reason. The reality is, I now realize how wrong I was about things and I simply want to learn how to helps others get to where I am now. I am new to this process and some of my thoughts are not completely developed. So, you guys are helping me too.

I would appreciate you guys giving me the benefit of the doubt and not jumping to conclusions that I'm being absolute or judgmental toward you guys, its just that this subject is more complex than most realize so misjudgments necessarily will occur. Lets just ask each other to clarify what is meant, it is entirely possible I've misspoken or misjudged what you guys are talking about.

That being said, I invite your opinions on some thoughts.

1. Why do you think this subject hurts us so very deep in our core, more than any other critique we can and often do receive?

2. I've never talked to a black guy who suffered from sps, even though we know many of those guys are 4-5 inches as well. You guys know any and if not why do you think this appears to be mostly a "white guy" problem?

3. Who gave these women the power here? Wouldn't it be just as feasible that you were the picky one and you wont settle for a "second best" girl who's vagina didn't feel "just right" to you? Why do they get to pick while you feel helpless and worthless, naked on the stage hoping and praying you are worthy of her grace?

4. Who deserves a meaningful relationship and sexual satisfaction more, her or you?

Thanks and I hope we can continue healthy discussion on this subject. I have a theory on what sets the scenario in a societal sense for what is going on here. I'll post that later.

[feelingbetter]

I would like to invoke Einstein here. He is credited, I believe, with stating that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. It appears the spiral of penis inadequacy thought process inevitably ends in a terminal loop. It goes there's a girl who wants a big penis so I'll sleep with her but I don't have a big penis so she rejects me then repeat. Now, it is well known there are many, many women who are completely fine with your size, but those you don't want or refuse to admit they exist, so the loop continues. I attempt to break the cycle and reboot the system but I don't know which buttons to push because you really have to reboot yourself and back way way back from where you are now and recognize the path that got you there, then DON'T take that path again but explore other pathways to see if there's an alternate way to get to the end result.

Another image pops to mind. You drove down a street the way you know how. Now, its at a dead end. For whatever reason, instead of backing up and seeing if there's an alternate turn you could have taken, you opt to accept defeat and sit in your car at the end of the road angry and frustrated, cursing life for sending you down that road. To make it worse, you see in the distance there are couples at the destination where you long to be. Instead of thinking, hey, those people must have taken a different road than I did, you erroneously conclude all those guys had bigger stronger cars than you so they could drive offroad where you couldn't. Then, amazingly, one guy sees you and yells "hey man, I used to be where you are. Back up and take the turn to the left and that should get you here". Instead of, hey thanks, I'll try that cause this is a dead end, you yell back "liar! You've never been on this road! I know what I'm doing! I'll just stay here and maybe if I sit here long enough, a magical path will open up and I'll get there."

Where do you go from where you are now? Is this the way you want to finish out your life?

Can anyone articulate for me exactly what is your view of a viable male/female relationship and how one goes about making it a reality?

[Notdoneyet]

Glad you are feeling better. The thing that you don't seem to appreciate is that some men aren't looking for long term relationships. Therefore, they aren't really looking for flawless women who will fit the politically correct cookie mold.

I tried the long term gig and it didn't pan out. It really doesn't matter why, it just ended up nearly breaking me financially and definitely soured me on the purported "American dream".

Now I didn't let it break me "spiritually", but it definitely turns off my concern for the women that I limit my dating life to be with.

[flander]

1. Why do you think this subject hurts us so very deep in our core, more than any other critique we can and often do receive?

2. I've never talked to a black guy who suffered from sps, even though we know many of those guys are 4-5 inches as well. You guys know any and if not why do you think this appears to be mostly a "white guy" problem?

3. Who gave these women the power here? Wouldn't it be just as feasible that you were the picky one and you wont settle for a "second best" girl who's vagina didn't feel "just right" to you? Why do they get to pick while you feel helpless and worthless, naked on the stage hoping and praying you are worthy of her grace?

4. Who deserves a meaningful relationship and sexual satisfaction more, her or you?

1. I suppose it's because it causes so much disappointment, ridicule, embarrassment, etc.

2. There have been black guys on this forum. IIRC, one said that it was worse because society expected him to be big.

3. I suppose it goes along with the whole courtship thing where the man is supposed to somehow win the favor of the woman. Since the sexual revolution brought forth the notion that people are expected to sleep around with at least a few partners in their lifetime, I suppose the size of the penis is yet another attribute to compare against and isn't something that can be reliably changed. That's not to say that women aren't open to the same ridicule: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGjElvt4nP8

4. Neither.

Your wife is happy that you're small. If she had been someone who was used to only getting "banana flowers" and enjoyed the experience, the result may have been different. Besides, I don't think guys on here are purposely seeking out women who want only big dicks and the gals aren't advertising they like little ones either, so it's not so cut and dried like you make it.

[feelingbetter]

This will be my final post here. I had good intentions but I have an overwhelming busy practice and as much as I desire to help, I can't keep dragging horses to water and trying to make them drink it.

You guys have allowed women, whether in reality or in your heads, to define who you are currently. It will continue to eat you up because it isn't right. You possibly are not to blame for this state. I realize looking back I was reared in a home where my father spent most of his time at work. I was reared largely by my mother which necessarily placed her into a position of very high power and dominance over my life. Without the balancing effect of a strong male presence, she did what came natural to her and tried to rear me to be a "good little boy". This manifests itself as suppression of all things male--being adventurous, rambunctious, assertive, a little rebellious, etc etc. Of course, a little tempering of nature is a good thing, but complete suppression as a child makes you inherently start to feel deep inside that something is wrong with you.

She also was a miserable woman who was never pleased. She seemingly constantly screamed at my father whose major crime was working himself to death to feed and house the family. He was a subdued meek man, although he didn't pander to her every whim, he also didn't take up for himself--he simply spent more time at work meaning less time with us. To make it better, I remember desperately trying to please this woman because I viewed my father as neglecting her. I cleaned, I washed, I painted her cabinets, I built shutters, I built her a deck she never even stepped foot on and many many other things I tried to "make her happy". What was the effect on my psyche?? That women are powerful, finicky creatures that are next to impossible to please. That image was coupled with a very underdeveloped sense of what it really means to be a man or what a man is worth--based on her actions he is worth very little.

Now enter teenage years and I have to transition from interacting with mother to girls I might get intimate with. I didn't realize it at the time, but all those images of "mother" are assumed to apply to all females now. Couple that with locker room talk about how all girls like big dicks, and guess what? Now more severe inadequacy-- I wont even be able to please a female during sex now! What a freaking life!

Now, I got very lucky I know and met a very good woman who was still hard to please, but didn't buy into the whole "big dick" business. I also never rushed to bed before making a significant emotional connection first. I think because I selected good women who weren't looking for a quick lay and really did want a connection first, I never got rejected based on size to my knowledge.

So far as dating down, I ended up with a beautiful woman (she used to be on the Indonesian dance team and traveled asia representing her country with traditional dance). She is very intelligent--came here with no English skills and within 5 years had a biology degree from the hardest program in the state, had money--at the time her dad was the wealthiest man in the state (not so since the tech bubble burst :-). How did she end up with a slightly overweight chemistry dweeb with a 5 inch penis? Because every guy she'd gone out with wanted to bed her or talk about her dad, etc. I didn't even know her dad. She was in my chem lab and I offered to help her study because I didn't want her to drop out. I found her attractive but I didn't think about dating. As we talked more and more over about 2 months, we got closer and closer. Then dated for about 2 months, heavy petting. Then decided to consummate the relationship and it was great for both. Kept talking, connecting, having lots and lots of really really great sex. Then marriage and 3 kids, lots of really tough times but a bond that held true through those times--a bond that had nothing to do with a big penis.

Life isn't perfect, despite the awesome lady I got, it has taken me till now to sort out the root of my inadequacy and my intense focus on penis size. In a way, the inadequacy served a purpose as I overachieved in a big way, not knowing I was really still trying to make up for that deep inadequacy that was ingrained in me as a young boy.

We live in a super feminist society. Some women will prey on weak, insecure men. They get their kicks out of belittling men in many ways. Those online posts don't come from the heart of a woman who just wants good sex, it comes from a woman who, for whatever personal reason, despises men and knows just what to say to inflict the most harm. It is sad and you cannot measure yourself based on these things. You are worth more than that and you are worth as much as any woman, you deserve sex just as much as anybody else, you deserve respect but you must respect and value yourself first or no one else will.

I have had 4 male friends commit suicide over women. I don't know if penis size insecurity played any role in any of those, but I have been at that point so its possible. The sick thing is I saw one of those women telling her friends about his death. They weren't sad. They said he was an idiot. The woman he killed himself over had a gleam in her eye and it hit me like a ton of bricks--she reveled in the knowledge that she had such power and control over him even to the point of snuffing out his own life!

Please please guys, don't let women or a false sense of inadequacy have this much control over you. Study up on what makes a long lasting relationship and quit trying to build based on "physical compatibility"-- that comes later, not early on. It is scary, it is very hard to find a really good woman in the society we have created. It may never happen, I don't know. I do know the state you're in right now is miserable and has no potential for positive outcome, so why insist on staying there and refusing to reevaluate and try something completely different? I sincerely wish you guys luck in beating this, seeing yourselves as capable men whose adequacy does not in any way depend on "satisfying" some woman who can't be pleased, and achieving a more positive, healthy, meaningful existence. I do care about you guys or else I never would have come here.

Take care.

[Guest cokeaine]

feelingbetter is awesome and makes some good points. I have recently been thinking about this subject although I am young. I am not sure how to measure myself accurately. There is only one intrinsic fear I have, and that's that when the time finally comes, and I pull my pants down, the initial reaction of the female.... I'm not sure if she would laugh, be impressed, etc. I have never measured it before and I'm wondering if some of my fears could be purely mental. I'm not sure.

But on the other hand, defining yourself by your penis size seems to be the same as defining yourself by your eye color or your hair color. We live in a very sexualized society where men are literally forced to worry about the size of their penis. There are certain things a human is born with that he/she cannot change. I think if people stop caring about what others think, there would be less stress associated with penis size in this society.

However, just out of curiosity, I will measure myself because I always wondered how big I am exactly.

[feelingbetter]

1. I suppose it's because it causes so much disappointment, ridicule, embarrassment, etc.

2. There have been black guys on this forum. IIRC, one said that it was worse because society expected him to be big.

3. I suppose it goes along with the whole courtship thing where the man is supposed to somehow win the favor of the woman. Since the sexual revolution brought forth the notion that people are expected to sleep around with at least a few partners in their lifetime, I suppose the size of the penis is yet another attribute to compare against and isn't something that can be reliably changed. That's not to say that women aren't open to the same ridicule: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGjElvt4nP8

4. Neither.

Your wife is happy that you're small. If she had been someone who was used to only getting "banana flowers" and enjoyed the experience, the result may have been different. Besides, I don't think guys on here are purposely seeking out women who want only big dicks and the gals aren't advertising they like little ones either, so it's not so cut and dried like you make it.

Ok, I couldnt stand it. I intended to not come back, but my OCD (which goes along with the obsession over this subject--I'd venture to guess most guys posting on this have some OCD background whether they receognize it or not) got the best of me. Flander, you have a unique talent for taking the most encouraging statements and finding a way to place a negative twist on them. First of all, the one penis my wife experienced before was bigger than mine and she didn't care for it. Secondly, you are the one who seems to make a black and white argument--that a big penis is "the bomb" and a smaller penis is useless. Even women who enjoy the fullness of a larger penis will say that a smaller one also feels great just in a different way. I just read a post by a lady yesterday who explained to a guy stressing over his "smallness" that she had had boyfriends with 8.5 in and 5 in. The 8.5 in gave that full feeling but was not as good at giving her orgasm. The 5 in guy gave faster harder strokes that hit right on the gpot whereas the 8.5 in guy had to keep it slow and it didn't strike the gspot the way the 5 in guy did--thus more orgasms with the 5 in guy but 8.5 felt good also. So it stands to reason that any average penis will cause a pleasurable sensation. Any given size and shape will cause its own unique sensation which depends as much on her anatomy as on yours. Discovering that and knowing how to "hit it" just right depends on an intimate knowledge of each other and experimentation over time. A woman who skips over this step and decides that only the full stretched feeling of a larger than average penis will do is not only cheating herself out of some really great sex, but is overlooking one of the most fundamental aspects of a truly great relationship. This mentality reeks of a person whom you will never please and thus is not good partner material.

I think of myself as "small" but in reality I am smack in the middle of average for a white guy. So, if she is "glad" I'm anything its that I'm not so big I would hurt her. What she is truly glad of is that I now recognize that too much focus on the penis is unhealthy, from either person in the relationship. A relationship is so much more than that, sex is so much more than a penis. I fully recognize that she could have landed a guy with a couple more inches than me or thicker than me and been completely happy with it, maybe even enjoyed more sensation during penetration than she does with me-- just as I would feel more intense sensation if she had a tighter vagina. To put an unhealthy amount of emphasis on the slight differences in sensation depending on dick size and vaginal tone is a good way to never be satisfied with your lover. I learned my way around her body and use what I have to give her the best pleasure I can. Just yesterday, we had sex for the first time in 8 weeks since her hysterectomy. She was very worried she would not be able to achieve orgasm as many women report problems with this after hysterectomy. However, within 6-8 minutes, she had had 3 orgasms from penetration alone, including the final one that came on when my orgasm occurred. Again, I do not say these things for any other reason than to point out that a guy with and average penis coupled with a girl who doesn't judge sex based on a penis size can have awesome fulfilling sex.

These guys aren't selecting out women who advertise they want a big penis, but they are quickly jumping to bed with women who obviously put a high premium on that (if the numbers are to be believed--again I ran this scenario by many women I know and they ALL independently said if a guy is being rejected by every woman, it is based on something OTHER THAN penis size--it is an uncommon thing for a woman to dismiss a man SOLELY based on that. I suppose it is possible you guys have the worst luck of any men and just happened to hit upon a highly concentrated pool of women who view men this way, but I think its unlikely. Its more likely there was an underlying sense of insecurity about the size, then a couple of cruel women "confirmed" the fear, and subsequent relationships were subtly sabotaged accordingly). I still maintain that this insistence on pursuing this type of female is a poor plan for building a relationship, even if you had a big penis, as they don't have a good concept of what a good relationship is as well as having a demeaning view of what a man can add to their lives.

The reason, I believe, this subject carries so much passion with it is because it is truly a discussion of so much more than penis size. It involves the very essence of male/female relations, male security, societal trends, and on and on. We guys tend to view our penises as the embodiment of our maleness. If it gets rejected or ridiculed, it tears at our very sense of ourselves. That cuts even deeper than ever before because we have built a super feminized society where we guys have a completely bewildered sense of who we are and are told in so many subtle ways every hour of our lives how inadequate we are and how powerful and perfect women are. Equality is a great goal, but we have passed from "male domination" straight through equality and now have a true sense of "female domination" in western society. Naturally, you feel emasculated and somewhat helpless. With this background sense of yourself at play, you now go and get naked with a woman. Every joke you've ever heard, every derogatory post and statement regarding penis size you remember all at once--you feel castrated even before she sees it. Its a wonder you can get it up, let alone come across as confident and just forget blowing her mind in the sack. Its a self fulfilling scenario and the only way to break the cycle is to do some deep soul searching, rediscover your self worth and be proud, not ashamed, to be a male. Then, seek out women who do not lend themselves to man hate. The beautiful, intelligent, successful women the OP seems to be enamored with obviously have built a life around showing that a man is a very unnecessary part of her life and is viewed by her to be not much more than a play toy to fill the void in her vagina. To twist it into anything else just reflects how much power they have over the male psyche. I personally don't want any woman who views men this way.

I wonder how the women the OP rejected based on physical attributes he deemed beneath him feel--are they on internet forums going on about the handicap they have that is preventing them from getting a man?

[feelingbetter]

Glad you are feeling better. The thing that you don't seem to appreciate is that some men aren't looking for long term relationships. Therefore, they aren't really looking for flawless women who will fit the politically correct cookie mold.

I tried the long term gig and it didn't pan out. It really doesn't matter why, it just ended up nearly breaking me financially and definitely soured me on the purported "American dream".

Now I didn't let it break me "spiritually", but it definitely turns off my concern for the women that I limit my dating life to be with.

Thanks notdoneyet, you are incorrect though. I fully realize these guys are jumping from girl to girl. I have tried a few times to get them to clarify what exactly is it they are looking for? If you want to live the life of a playboy and are not looking for a long term relationship, this whole dynamic changes. One can live that life with a smaller penis, but he should be prepared to get a fair amount of disappointed looks as this lifestyle is selecting out a type of woman who is likely to be looking for that out of the ordinary penis instead of a mutually satisfying long term deal. If you want a long term deal with a good woman, going about it in this "new fangled" way of meeting in a bar and going to bed right away is not the best way to optimize your chances as again, it selects out a certain type of woman.

So, you really have to decide what the heck it is you want from life and relationships before you can pick a course of action. More importantly, you need to have a deep sense of who you are, what you are worth and be able to not attach your self worth to the words or actions of a heartless female--just recognize her for what she is and move on to continue the search for the one who is worthy and who recognizes what she is getting if she gets you and vice versa.

[feelingbetter]

feelingbetter is awesome and makes some good points. I have recently been thinking about this subject although I am young. I am not sure how to measure myself accurately. There is only one intrinsic fear I have, and that's that when the time finally comes, and I pull my pants down, the initial reaction of the female.... I'm not sure if she would laugh, be impressed, etc. I have never measured it before and I'm wondering if some of my fears could be purely mental. I'm not sure.

But on the other hand, defining yourself by your penis size seems to be the same as defining yourself by your eye color or your hair color. We live in a very sexualized society where men are literally forced to worry about the size of their penis. There are certain things a human is born with that he/she cannot change. I think if people stop caring about what others think, there would be less stress associated with penis size in this society.

However, just out of curiosity, I will measure myself because I always wondered how big I am exactly.

Thanks so much, cokeaine.

Measuring yourself is fine, I'm sure every guy on here has done it a million times. It will let you know you are normal (chances are ;-) However, let it stop there. It is a distraction to keep pondering how your penis measures because what you are really struggling with is "how do I measure? what is a man? what is my worth? what do I have to offer a female?" etc etc. Getting with a girl the first time is stressful enough. Doing it with a shaky sense of yourself, riddled with a sense of inadequacy, and feelings that your penis is insufficient for satisfactory sex is just about enough to send a guy over the edge (and make us forget this is a 2way street--its not all about you giving to her!). This gives her an ENORMOUS amount of power and any little comment or giggle she makes can send you down a path of worry, doubt, self hatred and online posting for years to come. Heaven forbid she outright makes fun of your little guy--yes, there are some girls who will do that. Only by recognizing that negative attitudes towards your penis from her are a defect in her thinking (or are a manifestation of the female desire to dominate a man) and not a true reflection of you or your little guys worth/potential can you maintain a healthy view of yourself. Fears of inadequacy will sabotage your efforts in bed. Don't mistake, even guys who have the utmost confidence can fail to impress a girl in bed. The reason is a girl's satisfaction in bed depends mostly on HER mentality and how into you she is. Of course, you need to have some skills that only come with practice, but if she's not into you all that much, none of your skills will blow her mind. If she's really into you, as long as you don't suck really badly, she'll be pleased with what you do to her.

These viewpoints are compiled from years of talking to women and lots of reading, both books and online forums. Obviously it would be better to hear directly from women rather than from me, but for some reason female posters are uncommon on this subject at least in a meaningful forum. I used to think this supported the idea that they all are infatuated with large penises and are reluctant to come out and say it, but I've come to realize after engaging many women in discussions on this that when penis size discussion is superficial, they'll participate but when it reaches the level of a forum like this where men are suicidal and hateful and link penis size to their self worth, the women become very bewildered and just really don't know what to say. They really don't understand it at this level-- I can't blame them as we guys don't understand it very well at all either. Thus the endless forums and debates. Hopefully one day we can get to the core problem and all get to feeling better. :-)

[Notdoneyet]

Thanks notdoneyet, you are incorrect though. I fully realize these guys are jumping from girl to girl. I have tried a few times to get them to clarify what exactly is it they are looking for? If you want to live the life of a playboy and are not looking for a long term relationship, this whole dynamic changes. One can live that life with a smaller penis, but he should be prepared to get a fair amount of disappointed looks as this lifestyle is selecting out a type of woman who is likely to be looking for that out of the ordinary penis instead of a mutually satisfying long term deal. If you want a long term deal with a good woman, going about it in this "new fangled" way of meeting in a bar and going to bed right away is not the best way to optimize your chances as again, it selects out a certain type of woman.

So, you really have to decide what the heck it is you want from life and relationships before you can pick a course of action. More importantly, you need to have a deep sense of who you are, what you are worth and be able to not attach your self worth to the words or actions of a heartless female--just recognize her for what she is and move on to continue the search for the one who is worthy and who recognizes what she is getting if she gets you and vice versa.

I think I'm fairly comfortable about "what I want in life". I gave the married life a whirl for twenty one years and, in the end, all I got out of it was losing 75% of what I owned, (most of it earned before entering in the one way sham marriage) and came out looking like a blithering idiot to the folks who I once considered to be friends.

All I can say to any younger guy who shares what most of us here consider to be a handicap is to not put a lot of faith in others if you plan on any long term relationships.

[flander]

Flander, you have a unique talent for taking the most encouraging statements and finding a way to place a negative twist on them.

thanks! Everyone needs a talent and if spotting psycho-babble & BS is mine, I'm fine with that.

Secondly, you are the one who seems to make a black and white argument--that a big penis is "the bomb" and a smaller penis is useless.

nope. It is the women that I've encountered are the ones that have made that argument, especially my ex-wife. Given that the other men that I've unfortunately observed are larger than the so-called average, I can't really blame them for having high standards since that's what they're used to.

as far as lumping me into the playboy/player stereotype that jumps from woman to woman....thanks for the laugh. I needed it.