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LaLa

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Res, no one is suggesting that you stop expressing yourself and your feelings here. I'm sorry you are still struggling so much. :-(

I wanted to add my thoughts to the discussion.

My hope is for all of us in the community to feel safe enough to express our potentially different views and our feelings. We don't need to always be in agreement with one another or draw the same conclusions. If something doesn't fit or work for someone or if a member feels it is not the truth from their perspective, feel free to personally disregard it. Different thoughts/ideas may benefit different members. That is one of the cool things about a support community. There are many members who can offer thoughts and ideas and ways of looking at things that maybe we hadn't even considered before that could be helpful to someone. Hopefully the community here provides a space for our members to be able to do that.





 

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thanks, beth. and i wasn't upset with what lala said, but she seemed to think that some of my overly negative views or (or tone) might be harmful to some members. and although i don't necessarily disagree with that notion, i don't think it can be helped without censorship. because ultimately, any view or tone can be potentially harmful (or a trigger) to someone.

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I do worry about potential harm to other members also, yes. Some other members might benefit from thoughts that are different from yours and I don't want the members expressing those thoughts to feel shut down. Have you considered blogging? It's a bit more open.

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re:

1 hour ago, Victimorthecrime said:

It's not a philosophical debate, it's a support site. 

an example of philosophically caused/aggravated problems:

Quote

In the 19thC, Kierkegaard considered that angst and existential despair would appear when an inherited or borrowed world-view (often of a collective nature) proved unable to handle unexpected and extreme life-experiences. Nietzsche extended his views to suggest that the so-called Death of God – the loss of collective faith in religion and traditional morality – created a more widespread existential crisis for the philosophically aware.

 

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Thanks, Resolute, for your explications! :) 

It seems to me we think about these things in quite similar ways, with some exceptions. (For instance me, I would prefer to have some more of those "delusions", although I'm a very "rational-based" person. I know several people who are very intelligent, well-educated, ... and are blessed with a positive attitude towards life; able to reflect on its tragic aspects, but still live with some kind of "positive energy" they're also spreading onto people around them. It works and it's very pleasant. When I compare it to me, so easily irritated or angry (although only for a little while) or so often sad... I would just prefer their "delusions" (-still not agreeing with your broad "definition"). )

 

Quote

and as to there not being any objective reality, i'd say that's simply relativistic gibberish

This is again just your opinion. A little bit surprising to me, but at the same time; I know we all have topics we like to discuss and topics we just avoid. You seem to avoid this, by dismissing it as unimportant. I think this is quite important and can bring us useful insights. (Of course it can't help by removing pain or other suffering - if you told yourself "from one point of view, this is not real", it wouldn't alleviate the pain at all. But there are ways it can help to some of us, for instance when disputing about some problems.)

 

In the context of your last paragraph, I recall what I wrote:

Quote

[...] if you could present some of your very pessimistic and "negative" views (in case you're only debating something, not sharing your current distress that you need to "vent in order to feel better for a while") in a... perhaps less radical, accusatory, offending way?

Yes, it's hard, perhaps impossible, to find "the right rules" for communication on this forum. We don't want anybody to feel unheard, ignored. At the same time, although I do agree with you that "most people won't make life-altering decisions based on your views", there are people who complain about "too much negativity" here because it affects too much their mood (and then possibly also some decisions!) in a way they wouldn't expect from a mental support forum. We don't know how to make this place the most welcoming and "comfortable" for the (most possible) wide range of people, we're just having some suggestions that reflect some feedback we get and that seem making sense to us. I hope you see they don't prevent you from presenting your views. But perhaps it would help to keep most of the "very dark" and the "lashing" (-I mean... very critical and I don't include there your previous post here, but parts of the one I had quoted yesterday could be included) comments for threads started by you and being mostly "about your problems". In other threads, you could try to confine yourself to all the other types of comments you usually make here (supportive, funny, "chatting", reflective but not offending, ...). And again; I'm addressing this to everybody, not just you.

I'm sorry I don't have more time to reply to more of the points you made :( .

Take care, everybody!

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Thanks, Resolute, for your explications! :) 

It seems to me we think about these things in quite similar ways, with some exceptions. (For instance me, I would prefer to have some more of those "delusions", although I'm a very "rational-based" person. I know several people who are very intelligent, well-educated, ... and are blessed with a positive attitude towards life; able to reflect on its tragic aspects, but still live with some kind of "positive energy" they're also spreading onto people around them. It works and it's very pleasant. When I compare it to me, so easily irritated or angry (although only for a little while) or so often sad... I would just prefer their "delusions" (-still not agreeing with your broad "definition"). )

 

Quote

and as to there not being any objective reality, i'd say that's simply relativistic gibberish

This is again just your opinion. A little bit surprising to me, but at the same time; I know we all have topics we like to discuss and topics we just avoid. You seem to avoid this, by dismissing it as unimportant. I think this is quite important and can bring us useful insights. (Of course it can't help by removing pain or other suffering - if you told yourself "from one point of view, this is not real", it wouldn't alleviate the pain at all. But there are ways it can help to some of us, for instance when disputing about some problems.)

 

In the context of your last paragraph, I recall what I wrote:

Quote

[...] if you could present some of your very pessimistic and "negative" views (in case you're only debating something, not sharing your current distress that you need to "vent in order to feel better for a while") in a... perhaps less radical, accusatory, offending way?

Yes, it's hard, perhaps impossible, to find "the right rules" for communication on this forum. We don't want anybody to feel unheard, ignored. At the same time, although I do agree with you that "most people won't make life-altering decisions based on your views", there are people who complain about "too much negativity" here because it affects too much their mood (and then possibly also some decisions!) in a way they wouldn't expect from a mental support forum. We don't know how to make this place the most welcoming and "comfortable" for the (most possible) wide range of people, we're just having some suggestions that reflect some feedback we get and that seem making sense to us. I hope you see they don't prevent you from presenting your views. But perhaps it would help to keep most of the "very dark" and the "lashing" (-I mean... very critical and I don't include there your previous post here, but parts of the one I had quoted yesterday could be included) comments for threads started by you and being mostly "about your problems". In other threads, you could try to confine yourself to all the other types of comments you usually make here (supportive, funny, "chatting", reflective but not offending, ...). And again; I'm addressing this to everybody, not just you.

I'm sorry I don't have more time to reply to more of the points you made :( .

Take care, everybody!

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2 hours ago, Klingsor said:

Apparently just my or Resolute's passive presence is enough to cause animosity.

I'm sorry you feel this way :( . I hope there isn't anybody who would complain about your presence here! I also think we need more views - because you deserve to be heard and responded to like everybody else and because there are also other people feeling and thinking like you who need to see they're not alone with their views. 

I would say this forum is a bit too small - not enough people communicating. If the community was bigger, the chances for better support and perhaps also for more unifying tendencies (-"smoothing down" the conflicts) would be available... I don't want you to leave, but at the same time, I want you to find out and do what's the best for you - and it might be another forum (it would, unfortunately, need another "trial period" to find out if it's better for you).  

Quote

My thought processes are incompatible with the methods of modern therapy, and it isn't my intent to argue or convert anyone. 

I used to praise psychotherapy a lot on this site, perhaps even too much, so I'm not sure I could compliment myself on the same as you did here (in the 2nd part of the sentence) ;) . Yet, before my own therapy, I had been very incredulous because the principles (like importance of self-love, the healing by unconditional acceptance by the therapist, ...) seemed absurd to me - I couldn't imagine how something like that could work with somebody who had been full of self-hate almost all my life. And then it did work more than I could have imagined. So I felt a motivation and a certain entitlement to encourage other to try despite their diffidence or incredulousness. (It's true that after some time after my therapy, circumstances changed and I would need some more therapy to get better again, but it doesn't make the previous positive experience unworthy or useless!)

In the course of time, I've realised that there are people like you (as well as people hurt by incompetent therapists) and for them, the peer support is even more important and at the same time it seems also less available as they feel often rejected by those who're lucky to profit from "mainstream" psychology. :( I would like to contribute to you all feeling welcome and understood here, I just struggle with time and time-management :( ... (I'm not always able to write "something making sense" even when I have time.)

What more to say? There's a lot to say. I'm sure, but I'm "exhausted" now and have to go offline... :(

 

 

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2 hours ago, Klingsor said:

Apparently just my or Resolute's passive presence is enough to cause animosity.

I'm sorry you feel this way :( . I hope there isn't anybody who would complain about your presence here! I also think we need more views - because you deserve to be heard and responded to like everybody else and because there are also other people feeling and thinking like you who need to see they're not alone with their views. 

I would say this forum is a bit too small - not enough people communicating. If the community was bigger, the chances for better support and perhaps also for more unifying tendencies (-"smoothing down" the conflicts) would be available... I don't want you to leave, but at the same time, I want you to find out and do what's the best for you - and it might be another forum (it would, unfortunately, need another "trial period" to find out if it's better for you).  

Quote

My thought processes are incompatible with the methods of modern therapy, and it isn't my intent to argue or convert anyone. 

I used to praise psychotherapy a lot on this site, perhaps even too much, so I'm not sure I could compliment myself on the same as you did here (in the 2nd part of the sentence) ;) . Yet, before my own therapy, I had been very incredulous because the principles (like importance of self-love, the healing by unconditional acceptance by the therapist, ...) seemed absurd to me - I couldn't imagine how something like that could work with somebody who had been full of self-hate almost all my life. And then it did work more than I could have imagined. So I felt a motivation and a certain entitlement to encourage other to try despite their diffidence or incredulousness. (It's true that after some time after my therapy, circumstances changed and I would need some more therapy to get better again, but it doesn't make the previous positive experience unworthy or useless!)

In the course of time, I've realised that there are people like you (as well as people hurt by incompetent therapists) and for them, the peer support is even more important and at the same time it seems also less available as they feel often rejected by those who're lucky to profit from "mainstream" psychology. :( I would like to contribute to you all feeling welcome and understood here, I just struggle with time and time-management :( ... (I'm not always able to write "something making sense" even when I have time.)

What more to say? There's a lot to say. I'm sure, but I'm "exhausted" now and have to go offline... :(

 

 

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3 hours ago, LaLa said:

Yes, it's hard, perhaps impossible, to find "the right rules" for communication on this forum. We don't want anybody to feel unheard, ignored. At the same time, although I do agree with you that "most people won't make life-altering decisions based on your views", there are people who complain about "too much negativity" here because it affects too much their mood (and then possibly also some decisions!) in a way they wouldn't expect from a mental support forum. We don't know how to make this place the most welcoming and "comfortable" for the (most possible) wide range of people, we're just having some suggestions that reflect some feedback we get and that seem making sense to us. I hope you see they don't prevent you from presenting your views. But perhaps it would help to keep most of the "very dark" and the "lashing" (-I mean... very critical and I don't include there your previous post here, but parts of the one I had quoted yesterday could be included) comments for threads started by you and being mostly "about your problems". In other threads, you could try to confine yourself to all the other types of comments you usually make here (supportive, funny, "chatting", reflective but not offending, ...). And again; I'm addressing this to everybody, not just you.

alright. i'll do my best. and in that spirit i'll respond to the remainder of your post in my "whining thread".

take care.

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