Can a mind be sick?

[nathan]

Evolution first gave us our minds primative emotions and instincts. We lived an instictual life.

When we developed a highly consiousness mind (much more so than other animals), we developed what we call the ego. The ego works to question the instincts. There has since been an ambivlance in all of us, instincts vs the ego. Many are oblivous to this, but we all experience it daily.

Jesus Christ, was the name used for 'one' of the first persons to realize this ---and talk about it; he preached for the instincual side of life. There was also buddha and probably many others before and after them.

Some people have a stronger ego than the others. Those with egos that are very strong, can almost completely negate the instinctual side of life.

It being that that they are almost completely oblivious, blinded by their ego's, a sudden discovery of the instinctual side is a) terrifying, b)intriguing c) confusing.

The instincual life is 'life building,' it works in an altruistic way to allow all species to propagate. It is best sumarized by what Jesus calls 'love.'

The ego negates love becuase it questions the instincts. Most people today live in a very egoic state of mind (especially in modern western society.)

People are told to get an eduction, get a good job, get fit, look good, and progression is glorified beyond belief. This is HUGE ego building stuff.

IT being that the ego is 'love' denying, and ego's are running rampant, the person who discovers 'love,' sees most other people (unless they happen to have low ego's) as the devils, or antichrist--meaning anti love. Sometimes they will even think they themselves are the antichrist, after noticing the egoism that they have tried to turn away from in themselves.

These people are not sick at all, but confused about what they see, and they are confused because the western world completely ignores this side of life. There is no education for it. They then feel lost and scared. This leads to the paranoia, and delusions follow, probably as some kind of coping mechanism. And of course everyone (people with strong ego's) is out to get them.

The 'death of the ego' is when one discovers the instinctual side of life, and prefers it over the ego. Its when one starts to completely reject the ego in all its manifestations. They rebuild their lives in a mindstate free of egoic inclinations. The cling onto 'Jesus,' who represents freedom of the ego-- pure instincts, pure love. These are schizo's.

Not everyone who discovers "love,' or freedom of the ego, completely abondones the ego altogether, these people go through a 'spiritual transformation,' where they learn to respect 'love,' but don't completely reject the ego as schizo's do. They respect both egoic inclinations, and instinctual inclinations. And thus there is no collapes of the ego, just a softening of it. It's becoming consious of this ambivalnce that exists in all of us.

Others never really discover the instincual realm, probably becuase they are so distracted by egoism and its huge manifestations in todays world.

Why do some people completely abondon th eego, and others do not? Stressors. If you egoic life is failing, why not abondon it when you can see an alternative? My uncle went schizo, after discovering the instinctual side of life, but at the same time this happened, his friend was killed, his parents abandoned him, his life hell in all of its corners. IT was best to let go of it all, his mind could not handle worrying about it. All sources of worry come from the ego, and he abandoned the ego for that reason. My uncle was also highly egoic prior to his problems, he was a star highsschool athlete, he raced sailboats at a very competative level, he was good looking, very fit, did very well in school, and so on.

How can we fix schizo's? Fix society!!! not that there is necessarilly anything evil or wrong with society, I cannot make that judgement, but our society does ignore an important part in all of us-- our primative instinctual selves--our 'love.' Society preaches egoism. Capitalism leaves little room for our 'spiritual,' which is basically, our 'primitive,' but very real side.

A certain awareness of this, will give schizo's a home again. They will not become so lost and delusional becuase, they will see that they are not lost at all. They will see that others experience the same feelings, they will gain comfort in this, and people will begin to talk about it more. Things in the 'spiritual' realm will be labelled, which will result in sense of security.

If everyone's ego's were softened, schizo's would see that everyone is not out to get them.

Medication is nothing but a bandage, but perhaps thats all we will ever be able to produce at this point.

A healthy society is one that accepts and encourages both egoism and instincts, one that makes people consious of this ambivalnce that is in all of us. I think what usually happens, however, is that one) is prefered over the other. There are secular times (meaning, ignoring the undrstanding of our inhereted instincts,) in prusuit of egoic functions, and then there are spiritual times, where all egoic pursuits are condemned. Neither are healthy, as part of us will always be suppresed in such societies.

Edited August 2, 2010 by nathan

[spiritual_emergency]

nathan: The 'death of the ego' is when one discovers the instinctual side of life, and prefers it over the ego. Its when one starts to completely reject the ego in all its manifestations. They rebuild their lives in a mindstate free of egoic inclinations. The cling onto 'Jesus,' who represents freedom of the ego-- pure instincts, pure love. These are schizo's.

You've been thinking about this too, I see.

The point of Perry’s inquiry and of those in that lonely tradition I alluded to earlier (it might be called the Romantic tradition in psychology) is not to “diagnose” artists, prophets, and mystics–not to label or denigrate the highest human values and aspirations–but to reexamine such rich transformation processes and to value the cultural elements that enrich human life. Thus, “Rather than what is pathological in mysticism, we ask what is mystical in its intent in psychosis?” Perry concludes:

The content of the depths reached in the ultimate ecstasies is on the one hand illumination that enlarges the understanding, and on the other, rapture that fills the heart with lovingness.

The obsession of the schizophrenic with “social reform” is viewed as more than merely a “complaint against the faulty parental world.” For Perry, the schizophrenic’s ideation of a “new society” is a legitimate psychic concern that affects us all: a collective problem seeking a collective solution and one that especially manifests in psychotic and visionary states of consciousness. He asks:

With our secular governments, and with our diminishing trust in any generally accepted higher moral or spiritual authority … where do we find our real governance–one that involves us in depth? I consider this to be the modern problem that the archetypal psyche is wrestling with in order to produce a convincing new myth that will satisfy the need of the times.

The rebirth of society is based upon continual psychic upheaval: a renewal of the social archetype rooted in each individual psyche. It is there that we find the true matrix of history. And when social institutions become too rigid, it is there that we will uncover a creative means of overcoming them.

Source: The Far Side of Madness:

Namaste, Nathan.

See also:

- How to Produce an Acute Schizophrenic Break

- Mysticism & Psychosis

Music of the Hour:

Edited August 10, 2010 by spiritual_emergency
Added link.

[nathan]

Of course i've been thinking about it, I went throught it.

And wow, it's wierd reading that after thinking about the same thing.

[nathan]

and nemeste to you, whatever that means.

[spiritual_emergency]

Namaste is a greeting or a salutation and used as a sign of respect, particularly among peers. Essentially, it means, "I bow to you."

Music of the Hour:

[spiritual_emergency]

More from John Weir Perry (nathan, you'll likely enjoy this as well)...

Michael O'Callaghan: What about the death / rebirth aspect?

John Weir Perry: Well you see, the state of being in a realm of death in the beginning is pretty soon accompanied by the idea of either being born, or giving birth. This is really the fundamental ground of the whole experience. So there are two or three transformative elements that run through the phenomenon in a sort of overall direction. First, the feeling of death and rebirth, which is really symbolic of the process of disorganisation and reorganisation; second, the fact that this happens both on the world level as well as on the personal level – the world is also going through a disruption and a regeneration; and finally, the initial inflated notion that one is a supreme power (a great spiritual force, a supreme being, a supreme intelligence from outer space or whatever), gradually yields to a deeper overall preoccupation with the issues of relationship. The feelings and motivations tend toward love and affection in general. The sexual element is stirred up quite a bit, but mostly it's on a symbolic level. The process of psychological individuation required to achieve this feeling of loving relationship is also what social evolution is all about.

In this regard, the concerns of the regression to infancy are no more personal than one would expect. They are mostly concerned with the interpersonal field, with the parents and siblings, and with the problems of childhood and adolescence. The great surprise, during these weeks of turmoil, is that even more of the concern is about cultural and societal issues. I was totally unprepared for this: in the Freudian setting of medical school, there was no mention of it at all. At first, when Jung told me about it in Switzerland, I found it very hard to believe. I had to see for myself if he was right. This then became one of my motives for going my alternative way with these people.

Source: The Inner Apocalypse

Meantime, this was surprisingly one of the better books I read on the issue of fragmentation...

... in every life, it seems, circumstances arise with such a savage degree of unpredictability that life is turned upside down, its pieces scattered in a horrifying way. Unbidden, terror comes into our lives through past and present events and through our fears about what might happen in the future.

In the nightmare of such catastrophe, the inner life tries to make sense of what has happened, seeking some way to come to terms with the collapse of the foundations of our existence. Violence, abuse, rage, exploitation, withdrawal and bereavement have the potential to ignite a sequence of events that can lock us into a psychological prison charged with anxiety.

Source: Transforming Our Terror

Music of the Hour: Gallagher's Song

[Guy Out There]

...a psychological prison charged with anxiety.

Such an excellent way of describing that vicious circle we all go through during stressful events in life. One way in and no way out.

To put another interesting twist on that quote i have a quote from "Catch Me If You Can"...

Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse, wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Gentlemen, as of this moment, I am that second mouse.

The way i apply that quote to a psychological context, when you become trapped in a psychological prison charged with anxiety, you are like the mouse falling into a bucket of cream. You can give up like the first mouse and die (ie. commit suicide) or do nothing and be trapped, or you can fight it, you have to create your own way out.

The upside of being in a psychological prison relates somewhat to neuroplasticity, you may have built and become locked in an inescapeable prison in your own mind but you can create exits and escapes, those who truly wish to escape from their psychological prison will do, some will suffer.

[finding my way]

Thanks for all the references to follow up on, SE!!! This will be interesting reading:)

[spiritual_emergency]

Guy Out There: Gentlemen, as of this moment, I am that second mouse.

That's a very good quote, Guy. And a very good story. We often do get stuck and it seems there is no way forward, no way back. Pema Chodron has a wonderful book in this regard called The Wisdom of No Escape.

There is no where to go in those moments so we learn to just sit with whatever it is we are experiencing -- no matter how painful or terrifying it is. If we can endure, eventually, there will be a shift.

finding my way: Thanks for all the references to follow up on, SE!!! This will be interesting reading.

It may be dangerous to encourage me finding my way for I am in possession of hundreds of links -- weapons of mass instruction.

See also: Spirituality & Trauma

[spiritual_emergency]

More bits of loveliness from Pema...

A Guide to Fearlessness in Difficult Times

When I was about six years old I received the essential bodhichitta teaching from an old woman sitting in the sun. I was walking by her house one day feeling lonely, unloved, and mad, kicking anything I could find. Laughing, she said to me, "Little girl, don't you go letting life harden your heart."

Right there, I received this pith instruction: We can let the circumstances of our lives harden us so that we become increasingly resentful and afraid, or we can let them soften us and make us kinder and more open to what scares us. We always have this choice.

If we were to ask the Buddha, "What is bodhichitta?" he might tell us that this word is easier to understand than to translate. He might encourage us to seek out ways to find its meaning in our own lives. He might tantalize us by adding that it is only bodhichitta that heals, that bodhichitta is capable of transforming the hardest of hearts and the most prejudiced and fearful of minds.

Chitta

means "mind" and also "heart" or "attitude."

Bodhi

means "awake," "enlightened," or "completely open."

Sometimes the completely open heart and mind of bodhichitta is called the soft spot, a place as vulnerable and tender as an open wound. It is equated, in part, with our ability to love. Even the most vicious animals love their offspring. As Trungpa Rinpoche put it, "Everybody loves something, even if it's only tortillas."

Bodhichitta is also equated, in part, with compassion--our ability to feel the pain that we share with others. Without realizing it, we continually shield ourselves from this pain because it scares us. We put up protective walls made of opinions, prejudices, and strategies, barriers that are built on a deep fear of being hurt. These walls are further fortified by emotions of all kinds: anger, craving, indifference, jealousy and envy, arrogance and pride. But fortunately for us, the soft spot--our innate ability to love and to care about things--is like a crack in these walls we erect. It's a natural opening in the barriers we create when we're afraid. With practice we can learn to find this opening. We can learn to seize that vulnerable moment--love, gratitude, loneliness, embarrassment, inadequacy--to awaken bodhichitta.

An analogy for bodhichitta is the rawness of a broken heart. Sometimes this broken heart gives birth to anxiety and panic, sometimes to anger, resentment, and blame. But under the hardness of that armor there is the tenderness of genuine sadness. This is our link with all those who have ever loved. This genuine heart of sadness can teach us great compassion. It can humble us when we're arrogant and soften us when we are unkind. It awakens us when we prefer to sleep and pierces through our indifference. This continual ache of the heart is a blessing that when accepted fully can be shared with all.

The Buddha said that we are never separated from enlightenment. Even at the times we feel most stuck, we are never alienated from the awakened state. This is a revolutionary assertion. Even ordinary people like us with hang-ups and confusion have this mind of enlightenment called bodhichitta. The openness and warmth of bodhichitta is in fact our true nature and condition. Even when our neurosis feels far more basic than our wisdom, even when we're feeling most confused and hopeless, bodhichitta--like the open sky--is always here, undiminished by the clouds that temporarily cover it.

Given that we are so familiar with the clouds, of course, we may find the Buddha's teaching hard to believe. Yet the truth is that in the midst of our suffering, in the hardest of times, we can contact this noble heart of bodhichitta. It is always available, in pain as well as in joy...

Source: The Places that Scare You

Music of the Hour: Awakening by the Gate of Sorrow

Edited August 2, 2010 by spiritual_emergency

[Lindamomof7]

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Edited August 5, 2010 by Lindamomof7

[Luna-]

(I speak from my experience of bipolar disorder.)

I think a mind can be sick, yes. But having been sick doesn't mean always or irreparably sick, one can be intermittently sick, so "cure" isn't always a very useful word or concept. I don't think any of the psychotic illnesses are purely biochemical, nor are they purely psychological or social - there is a mixture of factors and susceptibilities at play.

I think illness can have a meaning and can reveal to us things about ourselves (a la Jung). That meaning may be inherent or it may be imposed, but either way it is possible to interpret and to use that interpretation to inform our lives. Suffering can be meaningful if one chooses to look for a/the meaning and applies that meaning to help one bear the suffering (a la Buddhism).

I choose to see my extreme moods and what they bring as meaningful. That doesn't mean that I think they are essential or ennobling in themselves, but that they have expanded my conceptual repertoire. I see no glory in my bipolar (I'd rather not have it) but I have learnt to use the "sickness' to deepen my understanding, develop my psyche and inform my art and writing.

As to treatment, whether by psychotherapy and/or meds and/or other alternatives, I'm going to steer clear of that discussion here, except to say that I think they can all be useful.

I have been awake since 2am which may also have informed this writing...

Edited August 3, 2010 by Luna-

[Mjolnir07]

[Note: My willingness to place my attention on this world and suggest others do the same, doesn't mean I believe "this world" is of more value and importance than "that world". I simply believe it's where we must be as a result of having a physical body, and therefore, what we must give our attention to. For what it's worth, I think the "other world" I experienced -- a world without bodies, what some might refer to as a "spiritual" form of existence -- is also of intrinsic worth. I sometimes (often) still miss that world but I also made a conscious choice to come back. Individual mileage may vary.]

Really belated props for this. This is pretty much how I've managed to continue going about things.

[Mjolnir07]

Such an excellent way of describing that vicious circle we all go through during stressful events in life. One way in and no way out.

To put another interesting twist on that quote i have a quote from "Catch Me If You Can"...

The way i apply that quote to a psychological context, when you become trapped in a psychological prison charged with anxiety, you are like the mouse falling into a bucket of cream. You can give up like the first mouse and die (ie. commit suicide) or do nothing and be trapped, or you can fight it, you have to create your own way out.

The upside of being in a psychological prison relates somewhat to neuroplasticity, you may have built and become locked in an inescapeable prison in your own mind but you can create exits and escapes, those who truly wish to escape from their psychological prison will do, some will suffer.

Excellent insight.