self hatred

[Endlessnight]

The thing I have the most trouble with is hating myself. Feeling that I have ruined my life and that everything I do is worthless. I don't think i've ever respected myself or felt any kind of self worth. I don't know how to change that. Words are just words....telling myself I DO matter is easy, believing it is not.

[Symora]

Were you abased when you were younger, or made to feel that you were not valid just the way you are? Maybe your life has turned out differently than you would have hoped and imagined.... acceptance, I struggle with that as well...

[nathan]

Ey man, or girl, whichever you may be. You are not alone, I felt the same way most my life, since I was a little kid! It sucks, I feel your pain. I've lost all my friends. Relationships don't work and it's because of this state of mind that I am in. Thus, like you, I blame myself.

Do you ever get random highs, where the self depreciation is gone for some reason?? I do sometimes, it feels really good.

[Symora]

have you noticed when it happens for you? Sometimes in happens for me when I'm doing something I enjoy doing. I really am trying to figure out what makes people like themselves, where do they get it from ?

[nathan]

Yes, I get it when I feel dreamy. Like after watching a great movie, reading a book, wokring out always helps, but connecting with someone on a thought that you never thought the two of you could mutualy experience is the most powerful for me. (thats stuff is rare, especially if you suffer in a way that doesn't allow you to be with people often)

Maybe people that love themselves see life as a dream,

And people have some control over their dreams.

Maybe then they feel they have control over their lives...

[Endlessnight]

I do sometimes get a random high. Sometimes I get so high I feel I can do anything. It doesn't last long though and the downs are always particularly low afterwards. I wish I could say when in particular I get them but i'm not sure. I know I have had them after connecting on a thought with someone, and when i'm feeling physically fit as Nathan said. I get a high when things are going well for me in general, which isn't often, and yes, it is so so good.

Nathan, yes it does suck, but knowing there is someone else that feels our pain (you feel mine, I feel yours, Symora feels ours) is in a way good, isn't it and maybe even helps some? I hope so, for both of us.

Symora if you figure it out can you tell us please so we can try and get the feeling more often? (Wanted to put a smiley face here but I dont seem to have any!)

P.S.

Music sometimes makes me feel like I can fly. Until I got internet access about four or five years ago I had forgotten the power that music has over me.

[Symora]

You'll be the first people I'll tell.... And then I'll write a book and make a gazillion dollars

Humour is very uplifting for me, I love spending time with people who I laugh a lot with, and I always go to bed joyful after a day where there was laughter... It helps me not take things so seriously and I like myself better then....

[katleen]

Hi everybody,

Am never sure where to jump in, I hope to offer just another perspective...always welcome feedback.

I get high in these ways.

There's the anxiety of the hope that what's before me is real and not some illusion of love that will disappear at the wrong spoken word..the abandonment thing...or some act of violation so deep that, yes, I do despair, because I know it as both as having been giver and receiver of anger and unhappiness because of having broken boundrys and being unaware of my effect until later. When the up that I'm in is so fraught with tension I can't shut up or slow my brain, creative and arrogant? and that can turn to rage or sobbing in an instant, usually turned inward but not always... Leading to that downward spiral. Then the day the cycle releases me and I feel as everything is good and will be from now on. forgetting the cycles before.

The high from the times I am able to stare life in the face, asking others why, or please don't, and what did you mean by that? And No.

Instead of being mired in the things I've come to believe about myself and the world and reacting over and over.

When I feel competent somehow. When I make a difference, loving, and caregiving, for instance, relieving anxiety and pain. (a gift from my Mom when we were ill.) Being loved. Smiling at some one and it coming back.

And, yes, warm laughter.

I especially like the highs of the times I can do and be part of these things.

I am holding my head a bit 'higher' every day, thanks to all of you. Your compassion, willingness to listen and share, make my life better.

loves and hugs

katleen

[IrmaJean]

Pretty things make me feel good. I often have to seek out what is beautiful, though, by writing, listening to music or by watching a nature video. Sometimes I'll use an exercise to try and find it wherever I can. Observation and a hopeful attitude can be a very powerful thing. I have a favorite singer whose voice really resonates very powerfully with me. Sometimes I will sit with my headphones on, close my eyes and allow myself to melt into his music. The sound and the lyrics might just as well be me. I let it embrace me and it does make me feel pretty high. The key for me is letting go and allowing the beauty in. This is something which I am also able to do when I write poetry. Sounds a bit silly, but it really helps me at times. It reminds me that there is much in life to appreciate and respect. And that sometimes we really have to look, listen and feel in order to know of it. So being in the moments and valuing everything is very important to me. Don't know if any of that is helpful or not...I hope you're feeling better, Endless Night.

[Endlessnight]

I really need help with learning how not to take things so personally or so seriously. If I don't hear from someone right away (for instance) I start to imagine it was something I did, that i must have done something wrong, that it is my fault I haven't heard from them, and the self hatred starts again. How can I learn not be to be so over sensitive? How do I learn to not over think every little thing that happens in my life and see slights where none are intended? How do I stop myself from feeling hurt at these imagined slights? How do I teach myself to be more rational in my thoughts and actions?

[Luna-]

Dear M

1. First you have to have a hug. {{{{M}}}}

2. Here comes the dreaded T E A form.....!! (TEA = Thought Error Analysis)

My therapist gave me this when I was stuck in a long depression and was beating myself up about all sorts of things that didn't exist, plus the tsunami and Katrina yadda yadda.

I don't have it here, I stuck it into an old mood diary, but I'll go find it and type up the headings. I didn't like filling it in, It is a lot of work. (That's why I said the dreaded TEA form.) But it is amazing when you write it and think about it and start seeing how distorted your thoughts are. And how you can do something about it. It helped me a lot. And when I get low again, I think back and it helps me again.

It's not about saying to yourself "I'm a good person. I'm able. I am likeable." etc. It is about analysing the kinds of thoughts you wrote above and noting how they make you feel, then looking for the error, the fallacy in it and writing the rational response.

I don't know if there is a standard TEA form, or if the one I have is a standard or one someone made up, but I'll come type up the headings and someone will pull me straight if it's wrong, I'm sure.

Sleep tight.

[IrmaJean]

I really need help with learning how not to take things so personally or so seriously. If I don't hear from someone right away (for instance) I start to imagine it was something I did, that i must have done something wrong, that it is my fault I haven't heard from them,

Endlessnight, I still have to catch myself from doing this. One important thing to remember is that the responses of others aren't all about us. I remind myself that perhaps this person hasn't written or called because of something that has to do with them and probably isn't because of me. Being self-introspective and focused inward can sometimes skew and distort one's clarity of what has actually taken place. I can very much relate to this particular example. But it almost always turns out to be me creating scenarios that don't exist.

[Luna-]

Found the form. I'm now even less sure it is a "TEA" form but it's the form my therapist gave me to fill in to try to identify my distortions in thinking. See what you think. It takes work and is a hassle to fill in, but I found it well worth the time and effort. I'd take it to my next therapy session and we'd discuss it. When you have a couple written down you can see how we're prone to "all-or-nothing" thinking: if we can't do something, then we can't do anything. That's false.

It's a table, here are the headings for each column:

1. Date

2. Situation

Describe:

a. Actual event leading to unpleasant emotion or

b. Streams of thoughts, daydream or recollection leading to unpleasant emotion

3. Emotions.

a. Specify sad, anxious, angry etc.

b. Rate degree (intensity) of emotion (1-100)

4. Automatic thoughts

a. Write automatic thoughts that preceded emotions

b. Rate belief in automatic thoughts 0-100%

5. Rational Response

a. Write rational response to automatic thoughts

b. Rate belief in rational response 0-100%

6. Outcome

a. Rerate belief in automatic thoughts 0-100%

b. Specify and rate degree of subsequent emotions (1-100)

Example from my form:

1. Date 27 July

2. Situation: Eating too much. I comfort-eat. The meds stimulate my appetite and I don't resist it enough. I'm teaching my girls to comfort-eat and being a bad example.

3. Emotions: Weak, guilty, sad, bad, fat! (70)

4. Automatic Thoughts: I don't have any self-discipline. I can't control my own impulses and that is bad. I can't do anything right.(90)

5. Rational Response: Sometimes my self-discipline weakens, but not all the time. If I am motivated then I CAN control my impulses to eat sometimes and doing it when I can is good enough. I set good examples for my girls in other ways and I'm allowed not to be perfect. It doesn't mean I can't do anything right, it just means I'm struggling with one thing.(60)

6. Outcome: (50) I feel stronger and a little more in control. More accepting of myself. (80)

[Endlessnight]

Hi everyone. Luna...hugs to you too!! Thank you for the form. I have copied it and saved it and will do it as soon as I can. I have been (on and off) going to the Moodgym site and doing the exercises which seem similar to the form you have posted. As you can guess from my not writing before i'm still finding it pretty hard to juggle both my jobs, and it being almost the end of the school year things just keep getting busier and busier. I tried taking half of a Truxal with the Flozak and one fourth of the Lexotanil that my doc suggested and it about knocked me out! I was barely able to function, so I haven't taken the Truxal again.

Irmajean when i'm rational I know that it probably isn't about me , but rational thinking isn't something I have in abundance when i'm feeling the way I described, and that's probably the problem...I am feeling and not thinking. You are right about how being so inwardly focused can distort the clarity of what one sees. I spend too much time inside myself! I've always felt alone, been alone. Never had anyone to share my feelings with, never trusted anyone enough to be able to remove the mask I wear and to tell them what I am feeling inside of me.

[Symora]

But now you have us ...

[Luna-]

*Luna steps up beside Symora...*

[Endlessnight]

Thank you guys. Hugs you both. M.