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Which is worse?


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So I seem to have got over the cutting form of SI. It was kind of a combination of catharsis, being hauled off by the cops who somebody called on me resulting in me losing my kids 5 days a week and simply running out of effective, hidden places that young kids won't see when I am changing after my shower.

I did wonder though if I would eventually replace it with something else. So, as I sat here wondering how much alcohol (amount, frequency and length of time in years) does it take to do serious liver damage to oneself, I figured I had my answer. That is not a question I would have asked myself three months ago. At any rate, I kind of do want to know the answer. At least with cutting, you could patch yourself up afterwards. I'm not keen on doing serious internal damage. My experience with chronic pain is that what doctors don't see, they just can't seem to fix. And I do not need one more crisis to deal with.

Anybody know the answer?

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I have been blocked lately in therapy. As of Friday, I may have made a tiny breakthrough on that but it's still a little premature to say. I just have this never-ending barrage of immense pressures on me every day, all caused by other people who seem to think I have a "kick me" sign on my back. They are never far from the surface. Even reading "Man's search for Meaning" in which Viktor Frankl describes how the mere contemplation of one's family got many people through the holocaust, I realize that I essentially do not have a family. What is left of my family (my kids) is slowly slipping away and simply makes me cry. I was thinking the other day, "I wish I was a paranoid schizophrenic, then at least my crises would only be imaginary".

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Athena-

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. I personally haven't been able to use alcohol as a replacement for cutting. I cut usually after a nightmare or when my head is death spiraling with too many bad thoughts. Alcohol can help but it isn't the same and isn't quite as immediate. That said I don't see anything wrong with using alcohol in moderation to cope. I do. My tactic is to get drunk enough that the hangover makes me want to not drink for at least another week or so. That keeps me from building a tolerance and using it too frequently. Clearly a genius plan. I have no idea if it's messing up my liver or not. I guess I don't actually have anything helpful to say other than, yeah, I totally get that life-sucks-sometimes business. Hang in there.

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It really depends on what you are drinking. Liquor , or beer? Hard liquor certainly will cause a lot more harm sooner then just beer> my biological mother drinks. She has gone through three husbands, dead. The first husband was my father, abusive , and angry . The next 2 died of liver failure. I think it hit men more. As far as we know our mother is holding her own. it is bad in our family> the drinking and drugs , addiction in general. I also need to comment biology has to do with it too. Remember though that the liver can heal. My brother is a heavy drinker. For the last 5 days has been drinking most of the night in his own bar with his friends. I went over there last night. Drinking , singing , acting stupid. all in a good nights fun.

I self injure too, in case you do not know> but, I have severely hurt myself a bunch of times. I do not need to worry about having small children around. My son is nearly 18. The problem with cutting is that it can look like a suicide attempt , so when you have your own little children , your going to look unstable which can be very bad for a parent with little children.

To me any self harming behavior is not good for a parent with little ones. The little children are suppose to come first. Meaning that we as a parent have to put all our own personal crap on the back burner in order to try and raise our children in a healthy enviroment. The last thing a parent needs is social services involved. I was from a abusive childhood, taken away as a real small child, separated from my siblings , the whole thing. I have seen children taken away , as well as felt the pain of separation.

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Athena;

Time to rebel...

As I see it, self destructive behavior is giving the competition what they seek.

By coming here and communicating with other victims of this SICK society, you strike a blow in your own psychological/spiritual self-defense.

What you do to yourself is a reaction/reflection of what has been done to you.

You have been harmed. Just as surely as someone who has been physically assaulted, robbed, maimed, etc. by the way you were treated as a child.

Every time we are compelled to cut, drink, or do anything that is against pure instinct, (as opposed to perverted *learned* instinct) we are re-enforcing and justfying (acting out) the role of "worthless", "guilty" person we were forced to play back then.

There are other self-defense moves that are effective;

like screening the people you deal with on a regular basis so that you can determine who is feeding your sickness (probably the ones you like most) and who is not, and then , painful as it may be, stop associating with them.

Note: It may be, and probably is, a family member/s that is sucking your spiritual blood. (My older brother beat me up and criticized me growing up, and still criticizes me at every opportunity, so now I NEVER call or visit him, because he is a net negative influence in my life)

Re-parenting; pick one of your childhood pictures and look at that child every day and tell it that you love it, and will protect it. Then follow through with loving and protecting yourself all through the day, by making wise decisions for yourself based not on what you want, but what you need, (unless they happen to be the same)

Baby steps; It takes about three weeks to form a new habit, pick a bad habit that is not to big to handle, and relace it with a good one. Do this for the child within. Example, if you habitually keep cutting tools within easy reach, start locking them in the trunk of your car, etc.

This will not solve the problem, but it will remind you there IS one, thus changing the way you think about it, and that you are DOING something that will help the child within. You are investing in the future of the child.

Congratulations! by asking whether drinking is worse than cutting, you demonstrate awareness and a will to survive...thats a good thing!

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There are other self-defense moves that are effective;

like screening the people you deal with on a regular basis so that you can determine who is feeding your sickness (probably the ones you like most) and who is not, and then , painful as it may be, stop associating with them.

Note: It may be, and probably is, a family member/s that is sucking your spiritual blood. (My older brother beat me up and criticized me growing up, and still criticizes me at every opportunity, so now I NEVER call or visit him, because he is a net negative influence in my life)

. I am desperately trying to get my ex out of my life. He is a toxic terrorist. He says what he wants (beyond his half), I give it to him. Then when it comes time to sign, he goes for more. Then he repeats the cycle. Even his own lawyer is about to give up on him. You cannot negotiate with a terrorist.

Re-parenting; pick one of your childhood pictures and look at that child every day and tell it that you love it, and will protect it. Then follow through with loving and protecting yourself all through the day, by making wise decisions for yourself based not on what you want, but what you need, (unless they happen to be the same)

Maybe I'll take my kids' "I love you Mommy" notes and put them where I'll see them. As for me, staring at my own childhood picture makes me ask "Why are you still alive?". So that will have the reverse effect.

Congratulations! by asking whether drinking is worse than cutting, you demonstrate awareness and a will to survive...thats a good thing!

Actually, I would call it more like, "In case I survive this ordeal, I don't want one more problem to deal with. Jumping off a ten story building will not give me another problem to deal with, except perhaps for a worse hell than I've already got. If I could have a guarantee of complete, utter non-existence, both physically and mentally, I wouldn't be here. Not having that is simply one more obstacle to be overcome.
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Oh, and by the way, it would appear that two small drinks @ 12% alcohol per day is about the max. Depending on the amount over this, cirrhosis can take five to twenty years to develop. Looks like I'll have to go back to wine before too long. I view it as a small indulgence to simply get me through several crises. I am a person of extremes. Live free or die. The middle is intolerable.

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Athena ,

I am going to flat out ask you something, because their are a few things that I have picked up , that are the excat things I have struggled with too. I know you see a dr, or therapist. Has anyone of them mentioned borderline personality disorder to you? just wondering? Have ever looked into this yourself?

Just throwing it out there, because in tht disorder BPD, only see in black or white, engage in harmful activites, self harm, Ed's , or any addictions, are very common. Having a difficult time in relationships are very common, and having a hard time regulating their emotions... I've had this for years, been diagnosed a hundred times over . So maybe it is easier for me to recognize it. Self damaging behaviors> been there done that, but I really have given up on relationships, pretty much turned into a recluse. I hate going outside now. So it can be really difficult just to make it through the day. Their are a ton of things going on soon , and I am just trying to wrap my head around everything. anyway, I hope I did not make you mad or nothing, it was only a observation.

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Athena ,

I am going to flat out ask you something, because their are a few things that I have picked up , that are the excat things I have struggled with too. I know you see a dr, or therapist. Has anyone of them mentioned borderline personality disorder to you? just wondering? Have ever looked into this yourself?

Surprisingly, no such diagnosis from a Dr. But I match pretty much all the symptoms. I mentioned it to my therapist. He does not like labels and if he were to provide one, he would wait a year first. I took an online test. Pretty much an exact match for BPD and very close match for bipolar. My therapist did throw around words like "splitting" (black and white thinking), risky behaviour, ambivalence and rage in regards to me. I had already informed him of the cutting, anorexia, bulimia, risky sports, risky occupation, extreme mood swings. So he's got a pretty good idea of what he's dealing with. I figured that if the cutting stopped it would probably cycle over to alcohol. However I have a dislike of being "zombied out" so I'm not too concerned about becoming an alcoholic. That's also why antidepressants don't work for me - they just zonk me out physically and mentally. Plus the bulimia from years ago did a number on my stomach so it kills if I have more than three drinks. At least there's one benefit to come from it! Although I believe I'm on the right track with therapy, the mood swings have been more intense since it started. Anyway, those won't kill me. I know because I have had the means (14 story balcony) and the suicidal urge coincide at the same time and survived it so I don't think that will claim me in the near term. No reason to live but for now too many obstacles to changing that status.

By the way, I have read many of your posts and picked up on this in you. I admire your strength. I feel for you when you describe your situation and I think it may really help some of the girls with EDs to read what you write about bulimia and what the long term effects can be.

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Guest ASchwartz

Hi Athena,

How about one drink per day? I ask that only because women actually get drunk faster than men. Its due to estrogen. For a women, one drink if equal to two for a man. If you are on medication, that would increase the effect of alcohol even more and that's true for both men and women. Well, anyway, it is good that you are keeping the amount in check and, in my thinking, wine would be better for you.

I agree with you about labels. Borderline personality disorder, etc, what do they mean anyway? People have issues and problems. In my experience, labels makes it even worse.

And, yes, mscat has many strengths and is wonderful. Thanks, mscat.:)

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Athena;

You mentioned trying to escape the negative influence of your ex. Good luck.

Speaking of marriage, mating behavior etc. Can I ask how you met your ex?

Choose one:

Met on your own

Introduced by friend or co-worker

Introduced by a family member

(I am trying to determine if people like us would be better off having other people pick their mate ;-)

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Yes Allan, one would be better than two, but I've just talked myself out of three. For now, the stress is unbearable. I will do what it takes to survive - if it turns out that I even want that. In the next two weeks my situation will probably either get immensely worse or I may begin to see a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm already freaking out over the prospect of the first one.

Edited by Athena
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Athena;

You mentioned trying to escape the negative influence of your ex. Good luck.

Speaking of marriage, mating behavior etc. Can I ask how you met your ex?

Choose one:

Met on your own

Introduced by friend or co-worker

Introduced by a family member

(I am trying to determine if people like us would be better off having other people pick their mate ;-)

Met on my own. Ignored all the warning signs. Friends now confess they were surprised I married him. I even had a roommate say "I don't get it, why?" when I first moved in with him. If we have a history of problematic relationships then no, I don't believe we can be trusted to pick our own mate. Although, perhaps a decent dating site or matchmaking service that truly knows how to match people up could work. Unfortunately though, Narcissists are great liars. I know - I married one. So irregardless of how we meet somebody, our choices should be carefully monitored by somebody who knows us well and has an interest in our welfare. We are especially vulnerable when we are lonely.

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Rest assured I am not one to like labels either ! I do not like them at all. But, Dr's do this because I think they have to in order to continue to treat someone. I just saw a lot of simalrities in Athena , and my struggles past and present. So I got a bit curious. The BPD diagnoses really does suck , had my first label put on me at just 16 yrs old. Then many years later recieved the same diagnoses along with others too. That was disappointing. To think i was labeled the same personality disorder as I was at 16. but understood , sort of. I guess i am frustrated because this BPD was suppose to get better with age, not always true though. So it feels like i am stuck . Even though their are other things going on besides that . Clinicical depression and stuff.

I remember self harming at a very young age, the ED was both anorexia and bulimia, had that for several yrs. And yes, I do have those side effects to this day. A constant reminder. I do drink as well, but with my brother and friends, never alone, that is boring. I too have to take a couple meds so my stomach can handle it. The drinking makes me wonderfully happy. I'll do that maybe once a week or so, and try really hard not to drive afterwards. Even though it is a small town that I live in , the cops are still out there, but their are ways to advoid getting caught.

About the self harming, well it has taken me to the extremes.... Just like the ED had done. So every day it is a constant reminder on how low I can sink into my own personal hell. My arms, legs, stomach , all tell me that I have done some pretty major damage. I fear starting again up with the SI . because once that does began it is like I totally lose control , when the very thing i need is control. I've been on here for a while now , and actually like this place because I can freely write about my crazyness , without being judged or looked at . I am a site for sure. Either a person sees the severe burns , or the tattoos. The tattoos were ment to mask the burns all over me, because i started getting tired of the stares and dumb questions people will ask. Were u in a fire? What happened to you? Well I just nod yes, and leave it. The BALLS of some people! I am not much into talking to people, or relationships at all, pretty much given up on others. I stay hidden in my apt. And struggle to go out. OH my God, to go out is really difficult, I am angry , and feels like I am forced out of the saftey of my APT. I am really having a hard time with it. It takes a lot of energy for me just to get into the shower these days. What the hell? Their are a lot of things going on all at once that I just rather sweep under the rug. It is difficult right now. My therapist has been gone for over a week . Nobody to talk to. I rather talk over the phone or something , but I do miss talking to the therapist.

Sorry for being all over the place in this post, my mind is buzzing. I try to sleep as long as possible. To not be "alive" and to escape . But, I had to call in for med refills. Otherwise I am unable to sleep. I had to turn on my phone, listen to voicemails today. I was actually feeling totally pissed off yesterday because I had to go out... Then I feel guilty and stupid.

Thank you for the compliments though, Allen and Athena. Just had a lot of the same struggles ,I can understand . Especially with ED's and self harm. I thank god most people do not lose control over themselves and SI badly or severely. Makes me a freak. But nobody would ever guess that it was self inflicted. It is that bad. I remember when I had those ED's, same thing, going overboard to try and destroy myself. Pretty sucessful too. It was gross. Looking like that, people again would make assumptions> like she has AIDS and is dying. That kind of shit. No I do not have AIDS, just a severe ED , and really did not accept how thin I was. Had treatment for it, just to get out and lose most of the weight again. OMG, it was something that was easy to do for me, I did not care. ED's are in the same catorgory as self harm in my opinion . Nobody can stop me when I am hell bent on trying to go away , disappear , never on this earth, kind of thinking. It is a never ending battle. To live, and not function well, or to end it , then there will be peace? I have no clue. What I do know is that I am here, and although painful seem to survive all the torment . If I could change things I would. But how? How to get rid of those thoughts? I already take a lot of meds, that does not solve everything. Talk about things? I rather die. But, stuck here , because i am a parent. I did not do that right either. If it was right my son would be healthy. not have autism and cognitive delays. This is my doing? blame the parents? Hell i do not know.

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Sorry you're feeling so down Mscat. I've never ever heard of Autism being caused by poor parenting. I was however thinking of you the other day as I read about a gluten free diet being very helpful in reducing Autism. I'm not surprised. So much of the flour used in food these days is so overprocessed. It really messes up the blood sugar - which seems to be a key component of many mental health issues.

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I have heard of those diets before. But, would not want to do it without a Dr. I saw how long the last post I wrote was, sorry about that. I do not have many or anyone to talk to. my therapist has been gone a couple weeks , I do not know when he is coming back. My son, gave me hell again last night. oMG, he has been terrible lately. Acting like a spoiled 2 yr old. I try to be as calm as possible, but he just keeps escalating. Bad evening. He just keeps going on and on and the more he does the more worked up he gets. It is exhausting. Next week is his graduation from high school . He gets a certifficate of completion, it is a little different then a regular diploma. It scares me though, how mad my son gets . Because I am unsure if I can be able to control him , and he will go off one day, where I will need help.

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Actually a partially gluten free diet is not that hard to go on. You are not cutting out all heavy carbs (wheat, rice, potatoes, corn), you are just cutting out the wheat. You can get brown rice pasta, and baked goods based on rice based flour like English Muffins, Bread, Bagels, Pizza Dough, rice crackers etc at the supermarket. I am not totally gluten free. I still have regular cookies and still use a bit of flour as a thickener in cooking. But it has helped me cut out stuff like donuts, fast food, bread - stuff that's just not that good for you anyway. Autism has gone up way faster in the last decade than the decades before. So has genetically modified food (wheat, corn and soybeans are the worst). The genetic modification is to make the plants resistant to really powerful insecticides. So, great - you are getting even more chemicals in your food now! Plus if the wheat is not whole-grain, the sugar in it goes into the system way too fast and throws your blood sugar off. Very bad for any kid, let alone an autistic one. Also, the bread these days has so many preservatives, that's bad for you too.

Anyway, think about it - it's worth a try. It is not changing the relative carb/protein/fat mix that your son is used to. Although having said that, I would be inclined to go to a dietician/nutritionist to see what they say about his current diet. There could be a problem there. The U.S. agriculture industry is only interested in creating the most yield from their crops and getting the biggest profit. They are not interested in providing a healthy product. Keep that in mind.

Sorry you're on your own so much. Feel free to PM me any time. I'm on my own a lot too and really miss my therapist when he goes away. Tough kids can make a hellish life even more hellish, I know. I have two young girls (6&9) both in therapy and three therapists took half an hour to get my little one under control one day. In my case though, I think it's mostly related to poor parenting on both sides and my BPD/Bipolar (or whatever one wants to call all those crazy up and down, raging mood swings and longstanding emotional problems) plus a Narcissistic, abusive, lazy father and a divorce that goes on forever....

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Thanks Athena,

I have concluded that it is not only more difficult to raise a child with special needs, AND struggle with many issues yourself. it is like a double Whammy. Hardly fair is it? I am not a religious person , but do on occasion find "quoates" highly approiate such as "god does not give you more then you can handle" HUMPH , Not sure about that .... Where is my break? Even when my son is at school there is plenty to be concerned about. My newest concern is his graduation, i fear that he is going to be lost in the crowd. Not knowing where to find him scares the crap out of me. It will be dark, outside and the ceromony is going to last a couple of hours. Yes, I have many worries .But that one is frightning.

My son , he is overweight. I think I was referred to a Nutrionist for him . He is a picky eater though, But when he finds something he likes he eats too much.

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Yah, that does sound scary. Don't they have something for people with dementia to wear so they can be found again if they wander off? Sounds like something your son could use. Do you have any siblings or relatives to lighten the load?

My six year old is a picky eater. She constantly has a tummy ache. Loves to load up on bread. My 9year old just watches and sees what she's doing to herself. She (my 9 yr old) calls herself "your healthy child". At least she gets it.

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Well, I do threaten him. By telling him I will need to call the police onyou if you take off like that ! This usually works.

My son has been a living nightmare. He obseesses over things , then will not quit. He takes all his anger and frustrations out on me. This is so crappy, and I really try hard to not allow this to happen. My son, at nearly 18 is going through something. Perhaps it is to see how independant he can be, or just to vent out his own frustrations, and I am the only one he can do this to.

I try and remind him that I have given him everything. All the nice things he has, and feed him everyday, got his 75 dollar yearbook so he could be happy, got him all ready for graduation , take him to have fun , to the fair this weekend, DO EVERYTHING for him , and it seems like he wants to completely drag me down . Last night his first interest was wearing black fingernail polish.. Innocent enough, but then he starts attacking me about that. My brother talked to him and actually worked. So next Matthew decides to go off on anther subject," church" Oh hell. I am agnostic. The family that raised me are extremely religious then some of his peers are too. SO here we go:eek: My son goes on and on about "church" he can't or will not stop. He thinks everyone is the same religion and he thinks that he is missing out> whatever. I tell him he can go. But i will not. He does not take into accont what i say, and just gets more pissed.

All admit , I am more of the biker type of person , even though I do not own a Bike... I have Tats , Severe burns, and overweight, THeir is not way I'd set foot in a ***** church. It is not my thing. So my son and I clash, he knows it, but continues down this road anyway to a point where again he is throwing a tantrum , giving me grief, and trying to take off. Then I regret it that he is even back from school.

I think he just does not care to take what I say into account, he is so damn self centered. Wants to pick a fight only to argue his point. He has been really shitty to me . but, then FINALLY after hours of this constant badgering he apoligises.

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He can go and talk to the same therapist that i do. I will need to get him signed up again. Now that school is getting out for the summer , their will be more time to make an appointment. During school he is gone from 6:15am to 5:00 pm each weekday. My son, he likes the therapist, and knows him already. I thik it can be hard to listen to Matthew because of his obsessions. But, I hope that MAtt could tell the therapist what his concerns are, that way it would be less of a burden on me. I love my kid very much, it is just that he is going through some stuff right now, and can easily become agitated about it. hopefully the therapist will let matt talk to him.

The Psychatist won't or cannot treat MAtt because of the autism diagnoses. I am not sure what that means. The Psych. Dr. had told me he thought MAtt had Aspergers with cognitive delays, however , kids and people with ASpergers really do not have any language delays, or cognitive delays. the Neuropsycholgist re diagnosed Matthew a few yrs ago with autism and all his IQ tests showed that he was functioning at a very below average, I do have his IQ number it is only at 49. But, the School Psycholgist Had his IQ higher . So it depends on the professional. I have heard that it is difficult with people who have autism to do these kind of testing.

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Hi

Mscat

You are going through what I did at the beginning with my daughter she has multiple disabilities but she has also Autistic tendencies. Don't rely on the school system they don't have the expertise sorry I don't want to come on to strong it just upsets me when parents are being pulled 50 different ways an what is wrong. There are therapists that will take your son. Can you call the Autisum Society the National One. If his I.Q. is 49 at his age who in the hell said he had Aspergers? That doesn't sound rite. Now you have a neurologist that has done all the testing to get his proper diagnoses rite? I took my daughter to Duke University they paid for transportation for me & her. They foun me a great Neurologist near here but over the water [ cross a bridge to get to his city Chesapeake Bay] I wish she could still see him he started seeing her from the age of 5 intil she was 22. I now have a neurologist he is realizing that I don't take no crap he can be replaced and that's what I told him. He praised me knowing that I will fight back. She is very ill rite now but I still don't put up with no crap. You fight back with all your might until you find somebody to help you take care of him or whatever you feel what is best for him & you.

OK!

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