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[AmyeH]

Hi all,

I haven't posted here in many many months.

How is everyone?

I have since been in hospital for 6 1/2 months and have been out for a couple of weeks. My psychiatrist and psychologist 'outside' say that I have BPD but the psychologist and psychiatrist in the hospital said that I just have depression and anxiety.

I'm having a real hard time adjusting to being out of the hospital and am not feeling good. Not that I expect to feel 'good' but when I say not feeling good, I mean really not feeling good.

I've had dissociation a couple of times before but it lasted a number of seconds rather than hours.

In the last week I have had it every day I have been out and not in my apartment. When I was at work (returned to work only last week), when I was with my family and when I have been in other situations also. It's scary and a horrible experience every time.

Everything going on around me is happening in slow motion and seems disjointed and unreal, like the sound coming out of peoples mouths doesn't seem to be in time with their mouths moving. Then I find myself to be very quiet, almost physically unable to involve myself in conversations and to be able to reply if someone talks to me. It makes my anxiety even worse. I think that people are going to notice that I am strangely quiet and am not replying normally.

I have not been fully released from the hospital. I am in an outpatient program they set up for me so I go there twice a week for a couple of hours each time. When I went to the hospital yesterday, the doctors asked me if I would stay in the hospital for a couple/few days so that I can have some time out and get away from any stress and anxiety. I decided against it but I am keeping it in mind because I am not feeling too great.

I am not feeling the depression so much, I think the medications have that one under control. It's just the anxiety which is pretty bad. I'm on Clonazepam 1mg x 2 a day for that but it doesn't seem to help me so much. My jaw has been clenched tight for the last week and a half and is very painful. I also take Cipralex (anti-depressant), Lithium, Imovane (for sleep, and still not sleeping properly, waking up early) and Etomine for sleep also.

Thanks for listening.

Amy.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

welcome back, amy.

That looks like a lot of medication. I hope they help you feel better. take care.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi AmyH,

It's been a while. Welcome back. After being in the hospital for such a long time, it must feel like a major adjustment to being in the outside world again. It takes time.

How is your outpatient program and how are you doing and feeling and coping now that you are out?

Allan

[AmyeH]

It definitely is a major adjustment being back in the outside world again. I was in a hospital which is 1 hour out of the city in a totally rural place, not even cars (at least main roads other than paths or houses there. After being there for 6 1/2 months and now coming back to the big bad city, it’s difficult to adjust to. I think though, that I've managed to adjust to that, that's OK.

The outpatient program - well, I don't want to be too negative and am still thankful to the hospital for allowing me to do an outpatient program but it's not great. The psychologist I have there is very different in style compared to the psychologist I have 'outside'. I'm just really looking forward to getting back to the 'outside' psychologist who is on vacation at the moment. The psychologist in the hospital follows the lines of doing talk therapy but I don't get many/any practical tips from her in order that I can try to cope with the anxiety/dissociation for example. She said that I need 1. Medication to help me, so they put me on Clonazepam and 2. To talk about my intrusive thoughts in therapy. I've been getting a lot of intrusive thoughts also which are highly unpleasant and play over in my mind. The psychiatrist in the hospital is also very nice (all the staff are) but she doesn't speak English so I struggle a bit to explain to her what's going on with me. It's a mixed bag.

I've been feeling pretty 'out of it', trying to deal with dissociation most of the time for the last week and a half or so. I've had it before but it lasted a number of seconds before whereas it is lasting 2-3 hours each time now. It's very difficult to deal with. If I am by myself then I can deal with it OK, I know what is going on and nobody around me can see it or otherwise. But when I have it and am around people I find myself to be very quiet and I think it's noticeable. I find myself to be quiet because that's one of the disconnections I am having, that I can't get words out of my mouth when I am in this state. Then it makes me even more anxious that people may be noticing that I am being quiet and non-responsive. It's very unpleasant. I've tried some grounding techniques but nothing has worked as of yet.

I haven't been feeling too great in the last few days and it has been questioned whether I should go back in to hospital for a few days or not. So far, I have decided against it but know that if things get that bad, then I’ll need to. The hospital is terribly boring. We have group therapy and individual therapy until 12.15pm and then have lunch. After lunch there is nothing to do until bedtime. We're locked out of our rooms so people don't stay in bed but aren't offered an alternative to do.

My mood has gone down a bit and I have been having thoughts of self-harm and ending my life. That's when I know things aren't too great. My anxiety has been very high, my jaw is clenched and I'm getting the dissociation quite a lot. Even the smallest things are stressing me out and causing me anxiety. It's just difficult to come back and face reality and all the work I have to do. I have no dreams and wishes, no aspirations and feel emptiness.

I'm working with a mental health non-profit organisation and have been given a support person and a social worker. I meet with them a few times a week and they are there to help me with whatever I need. Unfortunately, it's not helping me so much right now because I am not feeling too good. So when we meet, we just talk about what's been going on and how I am feeling.

It's difficult to know what to do with myself. I have the option of going to the hospital, the option of carrying on with everything but with a lot of anxiety and unpleasantness or the option of pulling back from work for example and the things that are causing me anxiety, but I can't just use avoidance to get through.

[LaLa]

Welcome back, Amy, it's nice to see you here again!

I'm sorry that you've been feeling so bad ...

Sorry, I have to go now, I'll write more sometimes later (hopefully)!

Take care!

[AmyeH]

It's really nice to see you all.

I've been missing coming on here. I didn't have a computer in the hospital so it's nice to get back to this.

If anyone has any advice then I much welcome it. I'm having a bit of a tough time at the moment.

Thanks for reading

[LaLa]

How are you these days, Amy?

[AmyeH]

Hi LaLa and everyone

I'm doing alright thank you. But am going between feeling reasonably OK to feeling pretty bad. I'm having a lot of thoughts of self-harming and sometimes, ending my life.

I'm still in the outpatient program at the hospital twice a week. The psychologist said that I need to be very careful because this is how the depression started before, this is the pattern. It starts off with anxiety (intrusive thoughts, general anxiety) and then it drifts in to depression and I can feel that strongly. Then I cut and engage in substance abuse etc. And it all goes to pot and then it's really hospital time.

I was at the hospital yesterday and they asked me again if I would stay at the hospital for a couple/few days. I'm still deciding against it and hope that I am making the right decision.

It looks like the end of the road for me and my therapist. I’ve been with her for a year, including my hospital stay of 6 months in there, so have officially been with her for 6 or 7 months.

I don’t know what to make of it and how it is ending.

Herself and my psychiatrist outside of the hospital both gave me the diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder.

During my 6 month hospital stay, they (psychologist and psychiatrist have said that they think it isn’t BPD, but is major depression and anxiety.

I met with the therapist today for an hour session. We spoke for 45 minutes and she was updated as to what’s been going on in the last month since she has been away on vacation. Then with 15 minutes left of the session, she said that she has an issue both ethically and professionally. She said that she isn’t experienced in DBT (Dialectical behaviour therapy) which is what I need because I have Borderline Personality Disorder.

It’s really leaving me frustrated first of all, to be given different diagnosis. I know that in the end it isn’t important maybe what diagnosis you have but is important that you have a psychologist that fits and can help. I like to think that my current therapist can help me, but maybe she can’t? At least, she doesn’t think so.

In all honesty, it’s really disappointing and upsetting to think of leaving my current therapist. She has been with me through thick and thin, at the total worst times I’ve had up until me going in to hospital and now coming out of hospital. I wish that she would be able to help me with all the help I could possibly need. She knows me more than anyone else in the world.

It’ll be tough to start off with a new therapist and I’m not sure whether I’m up for the challenge or not.

[LaLa]

I'm sorry, Amy...

In all honesty, it’s really disappointing and upsetting to think of leaving my current therapist. She has been with me through thick and thin, at the total worst times I’ve had up until me going in to hospital and now coming out of hospital. I wish that she would be able to help me with all the help I could possibly need. She knows me more than anyone else in the world.

It’ll be tough to start off with a new therapist and I’m not sure whether I’m up for the challenge or not.

Well, what else can I say than that you should discuss this very well with your therapist (again). The end is not a short process, you'll surely have some more sessions where you can talk about all your feelings related to this challenging change.

Your situation has been quite hard so far, so maybe this can change it for better, although it will be hard in the beginning. (It reminds me the quotation: "It gets bad before it gets better" )

I have to stop my therapy in the end of October (see my blog for the reasons), so... maybe we can share this experience of loosing a dear therapist ... In my case, it's very different as I don't have "a diagnosis" (I was anxious many years, but I'm over it already) and I am able to cope without therapy already. I just... still have some "unresolved issues" and I'm not sure if these few sessions left could help me with them. My T remainds optimistic, but... what else can he do ? But you have the opportunity to continue therapy, although with somebody new, and that's positive :-).

May I ask: What are your reasons for not wanting to go back to the hospital? I don't say I can't understand it or that I don't like the decision, I just would like to know more about your reasons.

Take care!

[Guest ASchwartz]

AmeyH,

I don,t want to be mean to your therapist, but, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time.

I would not blame you if you felt real angry at your therapist and if you agree, you could tell her.

One more thing, all these diagnoses. You are a perso, a human being who does not feel good and gets real depressed and upset, but, a real perso. All these diagnoses are dehumanizing. Don't forget that. So, those are my opinions.

What do you think?

Allan

[LaLa]

One more thing, all these diagnoses. You are a perso, a human being who does not feel good and gets real depressed and upset, but, a real perso. All these diagnoses are dehumanizing. Don't forget that. So, those are my opinions.

What do you think?

My therapist would say the same and I agree, but... I didn't want to blame your therapist - she may feel somehow helpless and she surely wants the best for you, that's why she's proposing the change.

But yes, I agree with you saying

I know that in the end it isn’t important maybe what diagnosis you have but is important that you have a psychologist that fits and can help.

My therapist told me sometimes in the beginning (when I asked him if he agreed with my new self-diagnosis - "social anxiety"): "I'm treating YOU, not a diagnosis. You're not a diagnosis, you're not 'anxiety', ..."

You could talk about this with your T and if she'll still insist on the change, then... I wish you to find somebody with the same approach as Allan's and as mine T's...

[LaLa]

I've found a thread about DBT, maybe interesting for you (?):

http://community.mentalhelp.net/showthread.php?t=404

[AmyeH]

I'm sorry, Amy... Well, what else can I say than that you should discuss this very well with your therapist (again). The end is not a short process, you'll surely have some more sessions where you can talk about all your feelings related to this challenging change. Your situation has been quite hard so far, so maybe this can change it for better, although it will be hard in the beginning. (It reminds me the quotation: "It gets bad before it gets better"

Thanks LaLa. I am meeting with my therapist again next Monday so we'll see how it goes. You are right, maybe this change can be for the better. I don't want to belittle my therapist but it was a long hard road and I was only feeling worse and worse. I'm not saying that she was the one responsible for this but maybe there is something to look at here. I always questioned from the beginning at the fact that she is pretty young and inexperienced. She has all of the studies there, BA, masters and Phd and is a fully licensed clinical psychologist but maybe she is lacking the experience that could help me. She has a lot of experience with CBT (also works in a CBT clinic) but we did quite a bit of that and it didn't seem to help me whatsoever. We did that for a number of months (several). Maybe she feels her lack of experience is also a possible hindrance to my getting better.

I have to stop my therapy in the end of October (see my blog for the reasons), so... maybe we can share this experience of loosing a dear therapist ... In my case, it's very different as I don't have "a diagnosis" (I was anxious many years, but I'm over it already) and I am able to cope without therapy already. I just... still have some "unresolved issues" and I'm not sure if these few sessions left could help me with them. My T remainds optimistic, but... what else can he do ? But you have the opportunity to continue therapy, although with somebody new, and that's positive.

I'm sorry to hear that LaLa. It's certainly a difficult thing, to leave a therapist that you've shared and gone through so much with.

May I ask: What are your reasons for not wanting to go back to the hospital? I don't say I can't understand it or that I don't like the decision, I just would like to know more about your reasons.

Take care!

The schedule there is pretty empty. I also got to the point of it making me cringe when the nurses come around at 7.20am to wake us up. I know that sounds a bit silly. I was just there for a long time, 6 1/2 months, and it took it's toll on me. It is 5 to a room and the rooms are locked from 9am-12.30pm and between 4-6.30pm. It may sound like not much time to waste but there is nothing to do and it's incredibly boring. I find it hard with my lack of concentration to sit there with a book for example and read. So it's really the boredom factor that is the main issue. Other issues are that I don't really talk to anyone there because of the language barrier. And there's nobody my age or similar to me that I can chat with. The majority are men in their 50's. When I was there, there was 9 women and 32 men.

AmeyH,

I don,t want to be mean to your therapist, but, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time.

I would not blame you if you felt real angry at your therapist and if you agree, you could tell her.

One more thing, all these diagnoses. You are a perso, a human being who does not feel good and gets real depressed and upset, but, a real perso. All these diagnoses are dehumanizing. Don't forget that. So, those are my opinions.

What do you think?

Allan

Hi Allan, thanks for the reply. I agree about diagnoses and them being dehumanising. On one hand, I want to just know already what I "have" and on the other, I just want to get down to some therapy that is going to help me. The therapist in the hospital is very nice, don't get me wrong, but her technique is 'talk therapy' and nothing else. She provides me with no tools in order to deal with the anxiety/dissociation/depression so I'm left just talking about it and it not really helping me. I feel like I really need something that is going to help me. Maybe it is time to move on from my outside therapist, I don't know. I don't know what to think. She thinks that DBT is the best type of therapy for me and I hope that she is right. We're just battling between what the diagnosis is and it's grating on me a bit. I'm very confused and don't know what is best for me.

My therapist would say the same and I agree, but... I didn't want to blame your therapist - she may feel somehow helpless and she surely wants the best for you, that's why she's proposing the change.

Maybe she does feel helpless and that she can't help me. In turn, it makes me feel a little hopeless, if I didn't feel like this already, I am feeling it more so now.

I've found a thread about DBT, maybe interesting for you (?):

http://community.mentalhelp.net/showthread.php?t=404

TYVM I'll check it out.

------

The depression is coming in waves with lots of thoughts to hurt myself but I don't think I'll do anything. The hospital have told me that at the least, I need to take myself there if I think I am in danger. They've been saying for nearly 2 weeks that I should really come back to the hospital for a few days but I'm trying to battle it out instead and I hope that I will win the battle.

[LaLa]

Oh, the conditions in the hospital sound bad!! :eek: I think it would drive me into depression even if I was perfectly healthy before going there :(... But I don't know - maybe it's good for some depressed people to have such a quiet, peaceful place.

And how are you living now? Do you meet sometimes some friends, family? What are you doing all days? ...

P.S.: This is my 666th post !

[AmyeH]

Oh, the conditions in the hospital sound bad!! :eek: I think it would drive me into depression even if I was perfectly healthy before going there :(... But I don't know - maybe it's good for some depressed people to have such a quiet, peaceful place.

And how are you living now? Do you meet sometimes some friends, family? What are you doing all days? ...

P.S.: This is my 666th post !

Happy 666th post! I hope it will bring you luck!

You are right about the conditions at the hospital. It's not even like a hospital, not a hospital ward or anything, but more like a hostel. This is the open ward where you are allowed outside and around the grounds. When I was in the closed ward when I self-harmed and had suicidal thoughts, the building is much more different there. It was much more like a ward and the conditions were better. Asides from being around pretty scary people.

The conditions in the open ward are much more difficult and you're right, can send even a 'normal person' in to depression. It's a real shame that it's like that because there are pros also. It's in the middle of nowhere, outside of the city in the nature, but there's only so much you can take of that too when it's so boring there.

When I came out of the hospital a couple of weeks ago, I moved apartments. That's been part of the stress. I moved from a studio place living by myself to a 2 bedroom place living with a room-mate. I searched for a room-mate (stranger) and didn't have any luck and then by luck I had a girl contact me that I used to live with a couple of years back who was looking for a place to live. So far, it's going OK, pretty well. She knows what is going on with me and had visited me in the hospital when I was there.

Asides from that, a lot of my time is taken up with still going to the hospital twice a week for the outpatient program. Then I am working with a mental health non-profit organisation in which I have a social worker and a support worker. I meet with the social worker once a week and the support person a couple of times a week. Then I've gone back to work but it's going pretty badly for a few reasons. And that's about it. I'm so tired a lot of the time, I nap on my sofa in-between meetings. Asides from these meetings, I don't have the get-up-and-go to go and do things. I'm feeling pretty down and just keep thinking about getting the craft knife out of my suitcase and self-harming. But I'm resisting so far.

[LaLa]

Sorry that I reply with such a delay ...

by luck I had a girl contact me that I used to live with a couple of years back who was looking for a place to live. So far, it's going OK, pretty well.

I'm glad to hear you're not alone anymore and that you live with somebody like her!

I nap on my sofa in-between meetings. [...] I'm feeling pretty down and just keep thinking about getting the craft knife out of my suitcase and self-harming.

I know it might sound like too optimistic or unrealistic, but... is there something that you could do to distract yourself from such thinking? I know you don't have enough energy for many activities, but at least listening to some peaceful music would help (?). And also... is ther a possibility to start with yoga in the city you live in? Many people on MHN recommend yoga very much, so... it would surely be worth to give it a try...

[AmyeH]

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, yesterday morning I cut. I went after to the hospital to the outpatient program and both the psychologist and psychiatrist said that I should stay in the hospital.

So, it's official, I'm back in hospital.

[LaLa]

I'm sorry, Amy . But I hope very much that they will help you.

What triggered you? What is your reason to self-harm? I believe they'll finally help you to understand this all and... mostly to experience the strong feeling that you matter, that you have no good reason to punish yourself by pain, and that you can find, step by step, a way to a satisfactory life...

Is there any chance for internet access in the hospital?

I wish you the best of luck and I'm looking forward to your good news!

Hugs,

L.

[AmyeH]

Thanks LaLa.

I have my iPhone with me so luckilly have internet access.

Life just triggered me to self-harm. Everything together. Feeling empty. Feeling lonely. Feeling hopeless and helpless. This has been going on for 14 months now and it's really grating on me. It's exhausting. I feel like I want the easy way out, another way out. I don't know how much patience I have left in me.

I have no dreams or aspirations in life, I feel like an empty shell. I refuse to drift along in life below the line of even being contented.

I self harmed because... To feel something other than nothingness and boredom. To punish myself for the life I have created for myself.

I was allowed (just about) to go home today to get some clothes and toiletries. I am so pissed at myself that I didn't get the box of sleeping pills to bring back with me or take them at home. I'm too safe in the hospital and feel trapped.

[LaLa]

Thanks for telling me more about it, about you ...

I feel like I want the easy way out, another way out.

Yes, "the easy ways" are tempting... What about taking a new approach: The stay in the hospital is a way out, a hard one, but still is, but it also depends on you. When you see it only as something bad, something that prevents you from "the easy ways" for some time but nothing more, then... I'm not sure if they will be able to help you . I know they cannot change your life entirely in every aspect you don't like about it, but... they can give you a help that can lead to many dramatic changes for better. (I mean: You're alone - they don't give you a partner, but they can help you to change yourself the way that it will be easier to find one. Or: You don't like your past - they can't change it, but they can help you to have a less troublesome attitude to that past. And so on.) Many people (including me ) are examples proving that therapy can help to change life consierably. The word "help" is important as... it points out that it's not "something they do to you", but it's a process that allows, enables you to change. I can understand that you're sceptic and maybe even pessimist (although you try so much to look like an optimist, at least here on MHN), but it's due to your problems. So "the way out" is based on... trying to act as if you really believed it will go better and you can do it. So... have you any ideas how to fight for your life? Where can you start? What can you improove in your previous attitude in therapy? What were the things you didn't like in therapy and what did you miss? Why not to discuss this all with the people who'll treat you in the hospital?

I think that when you are able to do such extreme thing as cutting, which needs a lot of effort, lot of courage, then you can also use, redirect this powerful energy to healing. Cutting hurts. Healing/treatment often hurts, too. Cutting is a "way out" in you eyes. Healing/treatment is a way out, too. It's up to you to chose. You're young and have a perspective to profit for a long time from your treatment. So... go for it. Don't feel trapped in the hospital when you can feel "picked up to be given a special attention and help". You only receive as much help as you're able to take. In the beginning, we all are almost unable to take the help that is given to us. Learning it is a part of the therapy.

[AmyeH]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm back in hospital. Have been here since Monday. I don't know how long I'll be here for or what I should expect but the psychiatrist and psychologist said pretty much 'that's it, you're coming back in to hospital'.

On Monday morning, my support person from the mental health non profit organisation came over to my apartment. We sat and spoke for 45 minutes about how I've been and what is new. It really got me wound up about my life and how unhappy I am with it. When she left my apartment, I had less than 10 minutes until I had to leave for the hospital to go to the outpatient program. I was on autopilot, knew where my 'tool' was and I cut. I've since cut whilst being in the hospital but I really don't want to move to theclosed ward so I haven't told anybody what I did. It was hardly anything due to my tool being improvised and not that 'good'.

They initially said that I'd be here for a week. But I don't know. I don't know how I'm meant to be feeling in order to leave here. I still am having thoughts of self harm and suicide. I don't expext to leave feeling perfect but what us a reasonable level of okness?

[LaLa]

Hi, Amy,

I understand your conceres and questions. Please, say and ask this all to your psychologist in the hospital. You need to know what to expext and what are they intentions. Please, say them also about your self-harm and suicidal thoughts! They can't do anything if you don't. I'm glad you share is here with us, but we are not there with you, so the ones who are with you have to know it, too...

Good luck!

Hugs,

L.

[AmyeH]

Thanks for the reply LaLa. Much appreciated.

I've been back in the hospital for 6 days now. I've been having lots of thoughts about hurting myself and sone thoughts about how I could end my life. I also cut myself a little on Friday in the hospital but didn't tell anyone. I know thats really bad.

So, now I don't know what to do with myself. I'm meant to be leaving the hospital tomorrow but can be here longer if needs be. I don't and do want to be here. Very confusing.

This morning I felt a deep depression and now a few hours later, I feel better. Definitely well enough in order to leave the hospital tomorrow.

It's coming and going. But the bad is bad.

Update: They've added a new medication this morning, Abilify. So we'll see how it goes with that. They like to have people stay in the hospital until they've gotten to the optimum dosage so I don't think I'll be leaving tomorrow as was first expected. I'm on 7 medications now (!) but hope that two of those will stop once I leave the hospital. They're just temporary ones.

I don't know what to do about something. I cut myself a bit on Friday morning and didn't tell anyone here in the hospital. First of all, because I didnt want to go to the closed ward which isn't a pleasant place to be. And mainly because I don't want to prolong my time here longer than needs be. I really regretted it after and haven't and don't want to do anything since. But it's pretty bad if I don't tell my psychologist and psychiatrist tomorrow. Thing is, I still think that I'm not going to tell them. For how little I did also, I feel like I'm screwing myself over be telling them! I don't know what to do though.

[AmyeH]

Hey guys.

Believe it or not, I am still in the hospital.

I've been in the hospital now for 9 months, asides from a couple of weeks when I was released twice but came back in.

How is everyone?

[eppursimuove]

Hello, nice to meet ya Im new. I hope ur feeling ok and go home soon. Im ussually around in this forum just in case ur bored and whant to talk to someone.