The real issue

[toulouse_lautrec]

The real issue for me as far as having a small penis is that sex just isn't that good FOR ME with a small penis. All positions are doable, except side to side, but even with basic positions sex has always felt limited to me. Since I don't have much length, I have to stay really close to the woman, there's no thrusting length or enough space to really enjoy it. It's never felt as good as it should because of this issue.

Also, women today are getting taller all the time, so since I'm 5'5" and my erect penis is about 4.25 inches, this also causes a problem.Add to that my below average penis length (not a micropenis, I know) and sex has never, and will never be, what it should be.

To me, if you have 5 inches or 5.5 inches you're fine (the average). So basically I'm begging to be average in both penis length/size and height, which is quite the pathetic existence (to not even be average for a man). It would be great to have 6 or 7 inches, since it looks like so much fun and you can deal with anyone without issues, impress women, be something special...You'd have room to move and enjoy it, every position is enjoyable, and if your partner does not enjoy a large penis, you don't have to go in all the way. It's a win-win situation. Being less than average is always a losing situation.

And yes, my perception is biased because of watching porn, I know those guys are hired because they are larger than average. But to tell you the truth, 99% of guys I see in amateur porn (just filmed by regular couples and uploaded to sites) are bigger than me too, so I know that I am smaller than average. I've hardly ever seen a penis smaller than mine in any kind of porn, except one site where the main attraction is some old guy with a very small penis who is treated like a circus freak. And whenever there is any kind of porn with a guy who has a small penis, people leave negative comments and say he's small and other mean things. So this problem is definitely not mental.

So now after posting this, I'll be thinking about this problem all day and now my day is ruined. Sometimes I walk around and count how many women are with taller guys or how many women are my height or taller. Last night at the mall, 12 women were as tall or taller than me, and 6 were shorter. So I'm definitely outmatched genetically in today's society.

[Recluse]

I agree with you about the amateur porn comment. I am over 5 inches length but my girth is noticeably below average. I have never seen anyone as small as me in amateur porn or any other kind.

[toulouse_lautrec]

Yeah, I don't buy the assertion that the guys just look big in porn because they hire big guys. Like I said, even amateur porn, from normal couples who submit their videos, I've never seen a guy smaller than me. Ever! 4.25 inches has got to be near the very bottom of the so-called "average" size.

And when there's a video of a guy with a say, 5 inch penis, half the comments say "poor guy, smell penis, that girl should be with me."

In the end, there really is no escape from this problem. Between my lack of height and lack of penis size, I'm a lot less than normal men. It's not a good feeling going through life for me, and whatever I've accomplished has not been enough to compensate. But now we're getting into another topic.

[Recluse]

I agree that there is no compensating for this issue. The key for me is in understanding that women won't ever accept me in a relationship as a result of this. I no longer even have a false hope that a relationship will ever occur.

Luckily, I am someone who has no reservations about paying for sex or seeing escorts so my only obstacle to getting laid is not enough funds.

If there is anything good to relationships or casual dating that is not something that is in my grasp.

The truth is, you could look like Brad Pitt but if you have inadequate size, you are sexually worthless to women.

[JaiJai]

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

[Karamazov]

Jai Jai is right. I have a nearly the same size penis as you guys (just under average in length and girth) and have had many good relationships with above average looking women. I always keep a confident attitude and the one time I let my insecurity really get to me I ruined a three year relationship with someone I cherished.

It's really is all about self image. Toulouse, some sex positions are not real great for me because of my length, so I focus on the things that do work. Maybe-perhaps even-being larger would provide better sex but I'll never know that so I'm not going to sit around and be miserable about it. I'm broke as shit and I'm sure having more money would be awesome but I'm going to do the things my budget allows me and my family to and have the best time we can instead of sitting around and be pissed that we can't go on a European vacation or something.

And I gotta tell you, I had maybe 25 sex partners in my life and I was in love with 4 or 5 of them. They were always and by far the best sex. It sounds totally old fashioned and prudish, but for me having sex with someone I really cared for was and is always way more intense than casual sex. In my opinion.

[Recluse]

my situation is different as my girth is below average. Only 4 inches around. This is a major defect as far as women are concerned.

[toulouse_lautrec]

I agree that there is no compensating for this issue. The key for me is in understanding that women won't ever accept me in a relationship as a result of this. I no longer even have a false hope that a relationship will ever occur.

Luckily, I am someone who has no reservations about paying for sex or seeing escorts so my only obstacle to getting laid is not enough funds.

If there is anything good to relationships or casual dating that is not something that is in my grasp.

The truth is, you could look like Brad Pitt but if you have inadequate size, you are sexually worthless to women.

I've had relationships though, not many, but I've had relationships. I've also met and slept with pretty many women. Back before the net became mainstream, I used to be able to pick up a lot of girls, meet them in public, and we'd come back to my place for some fun. I could never meet them outside... in school, college, work. Only online. Actually I did meet one girl from work, when I was 28 or so. As far as the online girls, sometimes they would just come to my place. I could never keep them long though. Back then, I thought if a girl slept with you, she'd get attached. Funny thing... I got more attached than the females. I was looking for love and found basically nothing. Considering my skill at attracting women to come see me with my talking/words, it's a shame I'm not attractive, tall, or have a big penis because my life would be much better if I could have just kept them instead of "hit and run" or have the girl meet me and then make up an excuse to leave (it happened many times).

I also should say I never had a complaint from a woman about not being satisfied, or have any woman laugh or mention my penis size. Only when I would ask them they would mention it was "fine" or some would say that other guys have been "bigger." A girl that I'm talking to now, we've messed around a few times, and I got her talking about size. Believe me, talking about size with a partner will turn into a nightmare. I told her I was less than the average, and asked her how I compared to others she's been with. She put me somewhere at the 3/10 or 4/10 mark, meaning 6-7 others were bigger than me. Oh, she's only 20 years old too. At 20 years old, 6 out of 10 guys she's been with have been bigger. Just imagine what a normal 25 year old woman has seen... say 20-25 partners (oral, sex, etc). Especially these days since men and women are getting taller, bigger, etc. This girl also said one guy was like 7 inches and made her bleed... he was an animal. This immediately gets me all depressed, and I can't feel good about being with her after she's been with guys like that. But I asked for it, and she gave me honest (as far as I know) answers. She pulled the "you're perfect size for me" rant and I caught it immediately and told her that's what a woman says when a guy is small. She agreed. We have a funny friendship. I'm surprised she still puts up with my endless depression and me going too far in interrogating her about her past sexual encounters. She admits that most women are size queens, but she's different, and some other women are different too.

I should also mention that I've never dated or slept with "top tier" women, either. I lowered my standards to get to date some women and sleep with them. Now, I'm not trying to be negative, or superficial, I see all people as having value. I'm just saying that I wanted very smart, very attractive women and ended up settling for much less in my adventures. Maybe if I could have broken into the "top tier" I would have heard complaints or been laughed at, I don't know. Regardless of the women, I could never seem to keep them after 1 or 2 sexual rounds. As I've gotten a bit older, women have been less interested. It's tough being 34 and still wanting to date 18-25 girls, or 18-29. Some would say date someone your own age, but I have nothing in common with 34 year old women who are divorced with two/three kids.

[toulouse_lautrec]

I got a bit off track. My basic point was that a woman can be satisfied with a small penis, but satisfaction does not mean it's great or the best, or that she'll stay with you. Also, because of my size, sex does not feel great to me. I want more room to maneuver, not have to be all up tight/close all times. When thrusting, it sucks to only be able to move a little bit, very small strokes. It would look and feel much better to have the room to put a little in, or a lot in. Does it feel good? Sure. Is it all it can be? No way. Not even close. And this is what depresses me and makes me want to kill myself. Well, that and my height. It's not just the numbers that depress me (5'5" tall, 4.25 if I'm lucky penis length) vs (5'9 average height or men, 5.5 penis length average) but it's also the sexual act/experience that depresses me. It's just not great because I don't have the length or girth to really enjoy it myself or for the girl to enjoy.

Now I'm depressed as hell and I'm going to sleep. I hate being alive.

[toulouse_lautrec]

For the longest time I didn't even really realize these things were problems. I'd try like hell to meet women, then notice they were taller than me, and then when we had sex noticed it wasn't that great and it wasn't close to any of the porn videos I've seen, and something was missing. Over time, seeing how women reacted to me, and never stayed long unless they were as desperate and low as me, I began to realize my problems were due to short height and small penis size. Both have held me back in life big time, limiting my dating options, sexual enjoyment, everything. And there's nothing I can do! I will never even compare to an average man. I'm begging to be average. Did you hear that? I'm begging to be average. That's a sad way to live life. With five more inches in height, and 2 more inches in penis size, I could at least be an average loser. Instead, I'm a total loser. Outclassed in society, taking the scraps.

[gone]

. Heavily snipped

I should also mention that I've never dated or slept with "top tier" women, either.

heavily snipped

Believe me, falling in love with, dating and marrying a smart, extremely cute 'little thing' isn't all it's cracked up to be either.

The only thing it has going for it is one knows they really loved you, or they wouldn't have comprimised, lowered their standards and settled for you.

John

[Notdoneyet]

Believe me, falling in love with, dating and marrying a smart, extremely cute 'little thing' isn't all it's cracked up to be either.

The only thing it has going for it is one knows they really loved you, or they wouldn't have comprimised, lowered their standards and settled for you.

John

You may be right. Some will settle for just about anything if they know the guy can provide for them financially. Of course a guy really never knows what goes on while he's away at work.

[flander]

I've had relationships though, not many, but I've had relationships. I've also met and slept with pretty many women. Back before the net became mainstream, I used to be able to pick up a lot of girls, meet them in public, and we'd come back to my place for some fun. I could never meet them outside... in school, college, work. Only online. Actually I did meet one girl from work, when I was 28 or so. As far as the online girls, sometimes they would just come to my place. I could never keep them long though. Back then, I thought if a girl slept with you, she'd get attached. Funny thing... I got more attached than the females. I was looking for love and found basically nothing. Considering my skill at attracting women to come see me with my talking/words, it's a shame I'm not attractive, tall, or have a big penis because my life would be much better if I could have just kept them instead of "hit and run" or have the girl meet me and then make up an excuse to leave (it happened many times).

at least you have that going for you.

[Karamazov]

Toulouse, dude, don't compare porn sex to your sex life. Thats like me watching Everbody Loves Raymond or some shit and complaining that my marraige isn't as fun as theirs. It's crazy. Even in porn star interviews they admit that it's work for them and that's not how they have sex off camera. I thought people knew this.

You make some great points, I like reading your posts. Don't you see though how you blew up that situation with your friend by "interrogating" her about it. Man, it's not worth it. I never asked any girl I was with about my size. I knew what her answer would probably be so I just didn't ask. I don't know what you consider "top-tier" but I dated some pretty smokin hot girls, all 7's 8's and 9's. The one time I did bring it up--after 2 years!--she confirmed that I was smaller than her other 10 partners and I pushed her away, obsessed about her previous sex life, and ruined a fun, kinky, bad-ass relationship and friendship.

When my first buddy got married, we all asked him how many dudes his wife-to-be had slept with. We were shocked when he told us that they deceided not to tell each other about their past sex life. I mean we couldn't believe he was gonna stick to that. We gave him so much shit for so long but he's got the happiest marraige of any of my friends still after 10 years. I just think that once we start obsessing about something there is no end to it.

My point is (and you seem to agree with this), this is our problem. Most of our women don't consider it a real problem. These other guys don't see it that way. I don't personally know anyone on this site but I'm starting to think maybe they are lacking more than penis size and it's just an easy excuse for these women to get out of there.

Hang in there.

[gone]

You may be right. Some will settle for just about anything if they know the guy can provide for them financially. Of course a guy really never knows what goes on while he's away at work.

In my case she works and makes about twice my money annually. She sure didn't marry me for my money (or great sex).

I don't think she's ever cheated on me anyways. She's never been anywhere or done anything she hasn't told me before hand. I have no reason to not trust her.

And I might add I have one ace in the hole in respect to this: She is utterly incapable of keeping anything to herself. She tells her inner circle of friends EVERYTHING. If she had cheated, half our friends would know about 48 hours later, me shortly after that.

The only thing she keeps to herself is pin numbers and passwords.

John

[Recluse]

Karamzov

You can infer what you want regarding your thoughts that we lack other things and are using size as an excuse.

In my case, it is the only reason why I don't have relationships. You stated that your length and girth are barely below average, As my girth is significantly below average, my situation is different.

Most women claim girth is more important than length. I have read many articles about this hoping to find a significant number of women who don't care about size but I have found or heard of few. The average length is between 5-7 inches and the average is girth is between 4.5 and 5.5 around, 4.5 being considered thin girth. As my girth is only 4 around, I look significantly smaller to all women.

I am fit, good looking and college educated. I have heard about the importance of size from women since I was 13. My situation is simple, I can settle for a woman who I am not attracted to that is willing to overlook my shortcoming or I can bang an escort who I am attracted to. As I believe attraction is an integral aspect of any relationship, why get involved with someone when the attraction is not there?

Most people are born with deficiencies or handicaps of some sort. This happens to be mine. I don't deal with the situation well or know how to deal with the situation well. Unfortunately, most people who I have met on this site with a similar girth to me also have similar problems.

[Karamazov]

Recluse,

My length 4.5 and my girth is 4.25. Why are your only options setteling for someone you are unattracted to or paying for sex. I don't understand. If my girth was .25 inches less would I be in the same situation as you? I find that hard to believe.

[toulouse_lautrec]

I agree that I did make things worse by asking my friend about her past partners. But even though I knew what the answer would probably be, I had to ask. If she told me the truth, I'd be mad. If she lied, I'd be mad. There's really nothing she could have said that would have made me happy.

To me, it's just painful to be below average, a full inch or more in penis size, and a full 3-4 inches in height. I just really can't handle it much anymore, and I don't sleep well sometimes because I'm always thinking about how I was dealt a bad hand in life and I'm unmarried, have no kids, and get discriminated against for jobs/have a poor dating life/inadequate sex life because of these issues.

And I really don't know if it was a big deal or not to my past partners. I never kept any relationship too long, except those women who were a lot more desperate than me (badly, badly overweight, no education, etc). Other women have left me after one or two sexual encounters. It's not really their fault. If the average guy is over 5 inches, and I'm 4 inches or just slightly above 4, they have a right to be unsatisfied. As I said before, sex has never felt really good to me because I lack the length to really have room and enjoy it. Women today are much taller as well, so you need a bigger penis to really get in there and have fun. Also, since the average is much bigger (20% or more) than my size, women are used to a bigger man, and many probably prefer it. For a woman to stay with any less than adequate man, he's got to have some special about him. But a woman will stay with a dumb guy just because he's tall or has a big penis. That guy doesn't have to accomplish anything in life and will still have better sex and a better dating life than someone like me.

It sucks. I've had it. Most days I really don't want to live. And now I'm thinking about my friend once again who said I'm like 4/10 in size compared to her past 10 partners. And she's only 20, so some of those guys she's comparing me to were 16 and 17 years old. I'm pathetic.

[toulouse_lautrec]

Does anybody else agree that sex for YOU (the man) isn't as good because you don't have the length to truly enjoy it? Do you get annoyed at having to be so close and have such a limited range of motion in most positions? I simply can't stand it anymore. If a girl was on top of me, she couldn't even move up too far without me falling out. What kind of sex is that? Now I see why I'm basically single, no kids, no wife, just ignored by women. It all makes sense. That statistics prove it.

[JaiJai]

Wow

[Recluse]

Karamzov,

I did not realize you had a similar situation to me regarding girth. I apologize, I am glad things have gone differently for you regarding women and relationships.

[toulouse_lautrec]

Do u live with your Mother?

Do you do All of your own laundry?

Do you have quality full-time employment?

Are you able to form connections with your peers?

Are you able to articulate yourslef well?

Have you found a way to be involved or to give back to your community?

Do you strive to better yourself spiriti\ually? Through education?

through your committement to family and friends? By improving your over-all health?

Your advice is too typical and generic to be of any use. Be grateful for what you do have? That's ridiculous. I'll answer your questions though.

1. No I don't live with my mother.

2. Yes I do my own laundry.

3. No I am unemployed.

4. No, I don't form many connections. My only few friends are just like me... struggling and depressed.

5. Yes at times, through writing more than anything else.

6. No, why would I give back to the community? They've given me nothing, I hate the town I live in.

7. Spirituality? There is no God, therefore no need for spirituality. I don't have many friends. My family is garbage and the cause of many of my problems. My health has never been that good.

Your questions were all irrelevant.

[JaiJai]

Not irrelevant to me and any other chick.

[toulouse_lautrec]

Not irrelevant to me and any other chick. Youve got 2 types of guys who cry about their little weiners.

You score about 50/50 On the "I'm a loser who hasnt actually managed to transition into an independent adult."

And you score a big whopping ZERO on "Being the kind of good human being that any one would want to spend their time with and potentially raise a family with."

Why would anyone want to be with you when you yourself dont want to be with you. Try bettering yourself to become a decent secure person so that another human being has ANY reason to be attracted to you. Until you can take those minimal steps, I would suggest investing in a quality pocket pussy. Take good care of it though, so it will last a long time seeing as your unemployed. Maybe give it a nice name, a special seat at the dinner table, and pick a few wild flowers to bring home now and then.

Seeing as how your current strategy is to blame your small penis for your life, pay close attention to how your focused negativitiy on your penis does 2 things...1-does not make it grow, 2 turns off any potential partner, before they know anything about your penis. And now you are no longer worth me wasting my time on your narrow-minded, self-pitying, 'poor me' tactics. Good luck.

You actually couldn't be more wrong about many things.

1. I have 3 college degrees, including a Bachelor's Degree in Accounting.

2. I've worked in many corporate jobs as an accountant.

3. Complaining about my small penis has not turned off any potential partners. I talk about it all the time to my friend, and strangely complaining about it makes her want me more.

But yes, looking at the facts, I do blame a lot of my bad life on a few things... my lack of relationships on my poor looks and height... my lack of sexual pleasure and ability to keep a woman on my penis size... lack of long lasting career success on my looks and height... if you also miss in some family issues growing up (badly dysfunctional family) and other issues and it's pretty clear to me why things are bad. But again, we're getting badly off topic.

Over the past few years I have focused more on these shortcomings, as a way to deconstruct and figure out my situation. I look at all statistics, all people, and compare myself to them. For the longest time I thought if I would be nice, charming, things would work out. But I found a much more cruel answer. If you don't measure up in these important ways, your life will most likely be a living hell and spiral out of control. I've fought for many, many years to improve myself and change this outcome, but nothing could compensate. I'm limited because of these issues. And that's why I'm basically alone.

[toulouse_lautrec]

Those questions were irrelevant though. My main problems are my height and my penis size, both which hold me back from a quality life. One holds me back from enjoying sex, satisfying my partner, and even holding onto a partner for a long relationship. The other effects my ability to even find a partner to begin with. So if I'm lucky enough to even be attractive to a woman, I have to hope that my small package won't scare her off once we start having sex. There is a reason some people are "insiders" and others are "outsiders." You either have the traits that the mainstream looks for and accepts, or you don't. I don't. Men with small penises do not have those traits, and therefore we are pushed off to the mainstream.

Also, it's not like I went out to attract friends that are also depressed and losers. We found each other. As you know, people hang out with people who are similar. So it's more of a natural occurrence than it is something one can change. Look at any mainstream college girls or guys Facebook. They hang out with the same people.