The Case Study of a Real Life Walking Contradiction

[Froglips]

I do not know where to start, although I do know that my problems more than likely stem from being put up for adoption at birth, or just being born at all... But this did not become relevant until I was much older.

Throughout my entire life I have been abandoned by the people I thought cared about be. My parents, my ex-wife, and all of my brothers but one. Friends have come and gone, and people who I thought were my friends turned out not to be.

Truly, the only real friends I have ever known have been my children (2 Dogs: Bull-Dozer & Rocky)... And now, as much as I love them, they have become a major burden on my life. Actually, that is not a true statement. They are only a burden because they are the only thing keeping me from killing myself. They are the only reason I can find to stay alive, and the only reason I am still alive to be able to write you my story tonight.

Wow, that pretty much sums up my entire life up until right now, age 44.

So, with that being said, I am writing you-all this post in a last ditch effort to find other reasons to stay alive, and to get your opinions on how/why I cannot seem to retain a single human relationship in my life. It has got to be me, right?

You should also know that I am not a believer (I do not believe in religion, magic, ghosts, and so fourth), and I never will buy into that kind of stuff. I also have a very low opinion of humans in general, the only exceptions being the Aboriginies and the American Indian). This is because since the first human walked the earth up until this very day, we have not changed or evolved even a little bit. As a species our destiny seems to be to kill off the planet, and all other species on the planet due to human greed & arrogance... Then move onto another planet and do it all over again, and again, and again...

I also suffer from depression, but I refuse to take any pharmaceuticals for it. My depression stems from the things I already mentioned herin, as well as the fact that I cannot seem to control my emotions at all. I think I also have something called borderline personality disorder, a slight case of OCD, and I always have to seek out the negative side of everything.

I will also warn you ahead of time that this is not going to be an easy case for you, because I have a very good argument against everything I can forsee you coming up with. This is because I think I have already thought of everything you will be able to come up with, and nothing has worked so far. I will say that love would do it, but that emotion is way too painful to go through again, and I would always be anticipating the day they would leave me high-n-dry anyway.

Also, the reason I decided to write you this post tonight was because I just lost another so called friend I have known since grade school a few hours ago.

Please help me find at least one other reason to stay alive, otherwise I do not think I will make it very long after my dogs pass away in 10 years or so. Also, and maybe even more important, what do you consider to be a real friend? How do you keep them your friends long term? What are some things they could do to cause you not to be friends with them anymore?

[LaLa]

Hello, Froglips, welcome .

I'm glad you decided to write this! You don't give up and you ask important questions. I hope this is a right place for you, because except for several currently often suicidal people, there are also people (like me) who were suicidal for some time but have found the way out.

I hope you're not feeling suicidal now (it seems you're not in acute risk; I hope it's not only an impression). In that case, we would provide you, I suppose, some comforting words, true but probably useful only for the acute situation; to overcome the urges... Maybe somebody will provide you answers to your questions about "why to stay alive" now, but I won't; I'd rather like to invite you to the "journey" of discovering new reasons of your own and new insights, which are more useful in long-term than some "instant answers".

You mentioned medication, but not other forms of help: Have you ever tried psychotherapy? I suppose that could be a good way for you, "at least to fill in the time until your dogs pass away " (sorry if this sounds mean and/or mocking to you; I don't say it with any bad intentions; it's just a little and silly attempt to humor...). A deep relationship with a good therapist can change a lot (I know it also from my own experience). It provides also a kind of "playground" where you can experience a close relationship and learn what you don't yet know about your relationships - that could help you much to discover where the problems with your previous relationships (friendships and loves) were and what and how you could change to make it better in future.

I used to have very similar thoughts about humanity as you... And there is a lot of truth in them, but... they ignore the other, positive, side. There are so many good people! However, this is a very complicated topic and I don't have time to go deeper it it, at least not today, I'm sorry.

May I ask you how did you lose this friend recently? What happened and how can you be sure it's all over? (Sometimes relationships have crises, but can be restored later...)

Also, and maybe even more important, what do you consider to be a real friend? How do you keep them your friends long term? What are some things they could do to cause you not to be friends with them anymore?

I'm glad to see you considering this more important, because it's something related to life, not death, so you still see chances in your life, which is important.

I also sometimes think about this. I have two friends who used to be my best friend since primary school (or I should rather say "junior high school" to "make you understand" - I'm from an European country where the scholar system is different and schools are called differently...), but after years, we used to meet less and less and every one of even us moved to another country, now we are communicating only sometimes by e-mail and the closeness of the friendships is almost gone; I'd say we don't know almost anything about each other anymore, but we still call ourselves friends and are in touch at least a little bit. I know that one of the friends still suffers sometimes because of this "distance" which appeared among us. Me, I don't. I see it like a natural process; everything changes. Maybe sometimes, when there will be a stimulus, we'll become closer again. If not, then - what? What's the real problem? It used to be beautiful to be friends and now it's a past, but the past reminds in our memories and also shaped our present to some extent, so it's still "somehow here". I could talk about many different types of friendships I have got and several different "fates" of them - I may do it sometimes if you'd like to - but I think it would be useless, at least now. My point is that... there is a possibility of reconciliation with the changes that happen. But it depends a lot on the character, predispositions of the person: It seems you might need strong and long-lasting relationships more than, for instance, me or your former friends. Importantly, you need to discover and understand the reasons why your relationships faded away to find out if there is something you could change in yourself to avoid (or rather: make less probable) this fate in future, or if you've been OK and the friends "left you" only because of some reasons impossible to influence by you. This is something you might try to do on your own, here by writing about it and receiving feedback, and/or with a therapist, who can have good insights.

I wonder what is your answer to your question "What are some things they could do to cause you not to be friends with them anymore?" That seems very important in the context of your problem.

So... you have a lot to discover, understand, maybe also change. Doing it might "keep you alive", so to say; distract you from the feeling that "there's no point".

Maybe eventually, I have in fact one reason for you to stay alive: You need to live to be able to find the reasons to live . (To be honest, this is something somebody told me once, maybe 4 years ago, and I remember I wasn't very satisfied by that answer, but... it turned out to be true; it was worth the effort to stay alive and "search"...)

Take care!

[Froglips]

Lala3,

I sent you the letter I sent to my exfriend tonight. It should tell you everything you want to know and more.

I had written you a great reply, but when I came back to this page after sending you the letter, everything was gone. I will write it out again tomorrow, as right now I am tired and going to sleep.

Please let me know your thoughts on how everything transpired; On how I reacted; If you would have reacted the same; If it was a normal reaction; If the exfriend was as terrible as I think.

Good night and thank you, Lala3

[LaLa]

You're welcome .

I'm sorry your answer is lost . That happens sometimes (seldom) here and it's frustrating... I hope you'll post it again successfully soon... (It's better to write the text in Word or other program at your PC/laptop first, and just then post it here...)

I'm going to read the letter later, now I have only few time. I'm curious... Thanks for your confidence .

[IrmaJean]

Hello, froglips, and welcome to the community.

I will also warn you ahead of time that this is not going to be an easy case for you' date=' because I have a very good argument against everything I can forsee you coming up with. [/quote']

I don't think that arguing would be helpful to you. Depression can be caused by a continuing pattern of negative self-talk and cognitive distortions. If you want to change the way you view things, you will likely need to challenge your beliefs. I know this is never easy.

Also, and maybe even more important, what do you consider to be a real friend? How do you keep them your friends long term? What are some things they could do to cause you not to be friends with them anymore?

I struggle a great deal with loss myself. I understand this can be very painful. Maybe you might challenge yourself and try to answer these questions yourself?

I'm sorry for your pain and sadness. There are people out there who care.

Take care.

[LaLa]

Hello again ,

so I've read the letter. Thanks again for it, it gives me a better picture of the relationship.

I have to say that you've done the right thing when you wrote it and ended the relationship! Your ex-friend is even lucky that you were so kind and did it with so elaborated explanation - most people just disappear and say nothing!! (As he did those 8 years ago...)

I'm going to tell you how I see it now. I know I might lack some important info, but... it's up to you to decide how much that makes sense to you:

It seems that you've been choosing a kind of friends who mainly "exploited" you (I don't know if your other friendships were like this one, so I probably shouldn't generalize so much, sorry). You were willing to do "anything" for them and didn't care that they didn't reciprocate it, until it became "too much visible".

What's important: It doesn't mean that everyone would treat you this way, because that's just what you "deserve". The kind of friends and partners we choose is influenced by our family and "childhood closest environment" in general. When you look back in your childhood, is there something similar? Did you struggle pleasing your parents (or even siblings?), tried to do what they expected, but didn't get enough "reward", wasn't praised, ...? This is, of course, only my fantasy, but I'm trying to get to know you better and looking for possible roots of the form of friendship you consider to be "normal" (until it's getting "too far").

There is also another important question: What did your friendships (or at least this one) give you? What was is that you valued about the relationships? What did you appreciate in your friends? Because from what I've read, I have no idea - it seems that you've been just doing favors to them and they didn't care about you...

And more generally; what do you expect from a friendship? It would be good to make a list...

However, there's also another thing: Maybe the friendships didn't have a big value for your friends, because you were unable to connect with them to a greater extent, to become really close - and that could be related both to your "wrong" choice of friend (who can't be so well "connected", close to someone, or who don't "match" with you) or to your general inability to be close enough to "anyone" because of your negative self-image preventing your self-disclosure. Maybe you expected that being friends just means doing favors to each other - helping with some practical tasks (as driving you somewhere, as you mentioned). Maybe that wasn't enough for the friends, so they've lost also the will to do you the favors. Again, this is just my fantasy; several alternatives can surely be derived from the letter you sent me and these are just mine...

To be honest, from the first part of your letter - describing how your ex-friend disappointed you 8 years ago, I've got the main impression that you expect that the friends will do "anything" for you and if not, then they have to have very serious excuses, which seems like a kind of intolerance to their "freedom and free will". But then, the recent behaviour of your ex-friend seemed to me as... sadly ignorant towards you, proving his lack of care (and your expectations from him don't seem big to me).

In any case, it's better to split up than to torture yourself by seeing his ignoral...

The question remains; how to meet new friends and make some really good-ones. Well, there's no "guideline" for it... but it's surely possible. It's always good to know yourself better first, to understand the attributes of your mind and behaviour which caused problems in the past and could be overcome. This can also be done in therapy . There are also books about social skills, if you'd prefer this way...

So, I wonder what do you think...

[Froglips]

WoW, Lala3!

There is a lot to digest there, and thank you very much for giving me you opinions. They mean a lot, and I have already learned a few things just from your responses. I will try to write a reply worthy of yours this weekend, but right now I am praying to whoever will listen, that I land this job I interviewed for today. I think I screwed the pooch though! Lack of control over emotions and all!

"negative self-image preventing your self-disclosure"

This ^ , among many of your other points, has really got my brain working... I have also realized that I need to recognoize a friend for what kind of friend they will be/are, and not expect things from the wrong types. Although the relationship I had with Mike does not apply to this, and you will understand why after you finish reading this post.

Another thing you must know in order to form an even more educated opinion of the relation ship you read about, is that Mike's oldest brother married my mother back in the day. Twice. He was 12 years younger than my mom. Go MOMMY!!! LOL.

Anyway, Mike and I grew up together in the same neighborhood. Went to the same schools. Lived in the same house for years. Shared a room at times (Seperate beds as I am not ghey. Not that there is anything wrong with that mind you) LOL.

In other words, he was my step uncle at a few times throughout my life. So the fact everything has went down the way it has, twice even, is really depressing to me... Makes me very angry with him and myself... But he does not give a rats arse!

[LaLa]

I'm glad you've found new insights and are thinking about them!

So, Mike is your family member - and we can't choose family members as we can choose friends, unfortunately... (But you don't live with him anymore and... "it seems" it's better for both of you.)

That's all from me for now; you have a lot to think about, so... go ahead!

[Froglips]

Anyone who is watching this thread,

I would like to explain the title of this thread "Walking Conradiction" to you-all.

Imagine a bald guy that is 5' 11", weighs 245lbs, has tattoos pretty much up and down both arms, looks ready to kill, and looks mean as hell most of the time (Clothing, Harley bike and such)... But inside, the person is a very fragile child that cannot control emotions, gets very emotional over nothing, sensative, cries watching most movies (Armaggedon gets me every single time at the end), tears up/gets choaked up just attempting to explain movies to people (Movie Examples: Pay it Foreward, The Legend of 1900, Lonesome Dove). This person is actually tearing up as he is writing this post right now. Yet he is completely passive. A large bark but too affraid to bite anyone. More affraid of the malice behind the intention, than the violence itself.

Then imagine a person who is somewhat intelligent, and has very extream views/ideals about politics, the world, humans, and just about everything. I am that guy that almost always has the complete oposite view of the so called "Normal Moral Majority". Believers (Read religious people).

As an example: I lose a lot of respect for people who are religious in any way. I still show respect to everyone outwardly, but inside I think anyone who is a believer (I use this word as a disrespectful slur that holds the same level of stigma as the'N' word) is a complete moron. Even if they are the most intelligent person on the planet due to education, social standing, or whatever.

I am sorry if I offended anyone! I was just attempting to explain the title.

I should also mention that I do not hate believers. I can compartamentalize the fact I hold no respect for the religious beliefs of a person, yet not hate the person at all. Even Love them.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Froglips

[LaLa]

I wonder if you're using your "facade"/"mask" to hide your real self... and if you are comfortable with it - with the impression you make at others.

I'm not offended by what you said, maybe also because I'm not a believer and I used to be (some time in my childhood) similarly "extreme" in my views about them (not because of my family, they've always been tolerant atheists!). Then, paradoxically, I became a believer for almost 5 years (because of a kind of "traumatizing experience") , but when I was 16, I turned to an atheist again - but this time, with quite a lot of understanding for believers... (And a big tolerance, of course!)

If you'd like to, we might discuss this more, although I'm not sure if it wouldn't be ... inappropriate (?). BTW, I'm from central Europe and I can tell you that we see, in general, the US (not only, of course - there are also some "trickier" countries...) as very intolerant toward atheists (and it's not only an illusion - there are several studies supporting this - statistics showing that the majority considers atheists less trustful than, for instance, criminals, and so on). I'm mentioning this because I wonder if this general attitude in your home country contributed to a considerable extent to your extreme views - maybe you're mainly rebelling against what the majority is telling and are so full of anger because they are at the other extreme - and any extreme isn't good... Maybe if religion would be just a very personal thing and nobody would care about anybody's beliefs, then you wouldn't feel a need to have and express such a strong resentment against the believers.

And I also wonder why you associate so strong emotions to this in particular - I suppose there must be something bad that a believer (or a Church as institution?) has done to you... Or is it just one of the parts of you that feel a need to "disagree with everybody"? May it be that you're just angry at the world (because you feel unaccepted by it, you can't take anything positive from your existence, ... so the world appears as a hostile place to you?), so you take every opportunity to criticize?

Just my thoughts ...

[Froglips]

I believe wholeheartedly that religion is nothing but bull shit. Always has been! Always will be! That is the last thing I will say about my opinions on religion in this open forum though. From now on this topic will be discussed in PM's. Ok Lala3. The last thing I want to do is disrespect anyone without a laywer present! LOL.

It is just my educated opinion based on what I have learned about the history of all religions, and what they have all done/continue to do in the name of a religion/messiah.

I suggest that everyone on the planet, especially Americans, watch a documentary called "Zeitgeist". zeitgeistmovie.com. It is also on netflix.

[LaLa]

OK, that's an opinion. And it's a matter of fact that many horrible things happened "in the name of religion". But the problem with such extreme opinions as yours is mainly that you're confusing "religion" and "all believers" - not distinguishing that there are many, many diverse types of people who are believers and their belief can be "expressed" in many different ways, some of them being very positive. Those are my words at the end of this "debate".

Or maybe one more idea I'd like to say about myself in this context:

Rationally, I think that agnosticism is more reasonable. But I'm a believer: I believe there's no God !

[Froglips]

I understand... I am ok with Buhdism, Hinduism, American Indanism, Aboriginalism, and so on, and so on... As these are all classified as Philosophies, rather than religions. I am ok with just about any philosophy that does not have to hate another whatever to be whoever they are supposed to be. Out of all of the big three religions, in my opinion... Judisim is the most like that type of philosophy. Although, in most cases, as soon as you are classified as an "Organization" the disgusification has already been prelevant for a very, very long time.

[Froglips]

But I'm a believer: I believe there's no God !

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! That cracked me up perty good there!

[Froglips]

You, Lala3, do understand that the only unforgivable sin (Acording to the bible) is to denounce god, right? I personally do not care, but do you? PM me with your response someday please.

[devils daughter]

the only unforgivable sin (Acording to the bible) is to denounce god, right?

That's not my interpretation, Froglips. There are references to blasphemies against the Holy Spirit in Mark and Matthew. But they were set in a specific context. I don't think it's surprising that there are differences of interpretation, given the ancient languages, translations, etc.

In an earlier message you mentioned a fragile child inside of you. Does that child feel a spiritual connection with anything?

[Froglips]

In an earlier message you mentioned a fragile child inside of you. Does that child feel a spiritual connection with anything?

No. Inside and out, I have no connection whatsoever spiritually. My brain just cannot buy into that concept at all. Just so you know, I was like almost all other American children growing up. My parents took me to the church/religion they went to. I was a Babtist as a child; A mormon as a pre-teen & into the early teens. Then when I got older I started looking behind the curtain, if you will, and found what I was looking for. Absolutely nothing.

I will say that the Mormon religion is probably the best religion there is for a family with children up to teens. They have a basketball court and complete stage setup inside each and every church. They all have their own sports teams, boy scout troops, and I think even girl scout troops. At least this is how it was when I was a Mormon... But as far the Mormon reglious belief system itself goes, I would not suggest it to a believer. It is up there in the realm of Scientology type religions imho.

[devils daughter]

The people I currently feel most comfortable with in person are my cats, so I think I can understand about your dogs.

Although I don’t have any addiction or serious co-dependency issues, I have been in a 12-step based support group for 10 years. That has been a sanity saver, maybe largely because it was a place where I could go and feel accepted. The 12^th step starts out “Having had a spiritual awakening . . .” but for me it’s been like a social awakening – though very, very slow. Still, I’m not falling down the depression slide so much anymore.

Have you considered an in-person support group? Actually I feel more comfortable here than in my support group, but people here come and go and so I’m always glad to be with my in-person group, too.

[Froglips]

I wish I could, but they are almost all religious based. So that would not work for me at all.

Not to mention that what I have been telling you-all so far, as well as other facts about my miserable life soon to come, would not go over well for me in a face to face group environment. Anonymous Online help seems to be my only recourse at the moment.

As a small example to feed your curiosity:

How would I be able to face a group of people, or myself afterwards, if I admitted to them that I have not completely cleaned my house in years?; That since I lost my job three months ago I have not taken a shower (Unless I have an interview (2 so far last week))?; That I have not brushed my teeth in so long I cant remember the last time to tell you herin right now?; That I really do not care about it, but at the same time causes me to hate myself all that much more each and every day I continue to do this to myself.

I would be in tears, and would be so embarassed that I would never go back.

So I know for a fact that right now an anonymous online phych forum is my only recourse.

To be honest with you, I am a little proud of myself for taking this very small step. So far It sure seems to be a hell of a lot better than constantly thinking about death, doom and gloom, feeling all alone in the world, and knowing that I am a really big loser in life right now.

Edit:

Also, the only human contact I have is at work. Otherwise I can count on one hand how many different people I know will call me in an entire year (3). I can count on one hand how many people have seen the inside of my house as well. In almost 12 years time, since I have owned the house, 5 people have seen it. I have only one person I go see once a week or so, but if he was not my supplier (Doobage), I would not go see him.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Froglips

[devils daughter]

When my anxiety and depression were at the worst 6-7 years ago, I could do very little. Trying to clean the house just added to my suicidality. First things first -- and getting through the days was first. The house still is fit for no on but my cats and me – I do not have company. My (support group) friends understand. When I have to have someone in to service my air conditioner, etc., I scurry around for several days, sometimes, moving the clutter around.

10 years ago I would have felt horrible about it but not today. Getting through the days, climbing up from depression, is still first.

What other symptoms are bothering you, or maybe contributing to you feeling bad about yourself? Abandonment and devaluation in early childhood can affect our feelings about ourselves our whole life. Have you ever tried therapy? Is that something that you might consider now?

[Froglips]

I agree. Just getting through a day is much more important to me than how clean I am not... But it still adds to my depression on really bad days sometimes.

I must say, just seeing that someone else out there is like this as well, and understands, makes me feel a little better about myself.

I have tried therapy before, but I found it to be a complete joke. To sum that up: I can not trust someone who is only my friend because I pay them to be. Not to mention that no money = no therapy no matter how I slice it.

Sometimes I feel even worse because I have not had the balls to actually ever do it. Although I am very happy I never have. This is because when it is at it's worse, there is some temporary problem causing the normal urge to become more powerful that particular day. That is actually the entire reason I have never actually done it. I know that time heals almost all wounds, so I do agree that a permantent soulution to a temporary problem is never the answer for things like this... But on bad days I do not really care as much about logic.

[IrmaJean]

It is wonderful that you reached out here, and good that you are proud of yourself for it.

I wanted to say hi and offer my support. I hope you will keep expressing yourself. We're listening.

[devils daughter]

In my 50 years of therapy, on and off, I’ve done a lot of reading on my own. When I fell apart 10 years ago, the professionals had not helped any as I was sliding down that path, so I did NOT go back to them. Eventually I did. . . but as “consultants”. I had my support group for support.

There’s a book “Schema Therapy” that I just got and looks interesting. It’s for folks who have had long-term difficulties that have not responded to the usual therapies. I still go to my regular therapist, but she hasn’t been specifically trained in that so mostly I’ll probably be doing it myself. If you’re interested, I posted a link up in the Psychotherapy section and there’s more on the website than just that one page.

But I agree with IrmaJean – expressing oneself here, in and of itself, can be a big relief!

[LaLa]

I like what DD has wiritten ...

I also suppose a group would be a good solution for you - and I know they aren't all religion-based! I imagine that going to therapy could also become a strong motivation to take more care about your body (not only soul )! BTW; maybe you could try to eke out your nice new effort of taking care about your mental state (-participating in on-line community like this) with a complementary nice effort to take care about your body ! You say you're a little proud of yourself that you're doing this - and imagine how proud you'd be if you succeeded to be nicely clean and fit ! Wouldn't you also feel more comfortable around people in general? Wouldn't you feel more "prone to" search for new friendships? Maybe it would really be too much for you right now - I don't know how strongly you're affected by your depression - but... someday you'll feel to have some energy, you could give it a try...

And if I care that [the only] unforgivable sin is to denounce god?

You know; I don't think - as you do - that "religion is complete bullshit". It's a often-good-working system able to, among other (mostly "spiritual") functions, guide people's everyday lifes by "advises" that are, or used to be (-the problem is that they mostly "cannot" be modified even if prooved to be inappropriate after centuries), right in some contexts, some circumstanes, ... or - some of them - in general. You probably wouldn't argue against most of the 10 commandments, would you? And as it's "a kind of authoritative" system, it has to have also some commandments that will try to ensure the believers to stick with it - and one of them is, logically, that you cannot say that the core concept is wrong, including denounciation of god. But as I'm not "part of the system", this doesn't affect me. Caring about this would be the same as feeling guilty because of eating beef knowing that islam prohibits it...

[Froglips]

Well, I did not get the job, so now I have an interview on Wednesday for a job I can not really take if I do get it (25% travel), but I need to take because I have no money left. I have my two dogs, no one to take care of them if I must go out of town, and I do not want to be away from them for weeks at a time to begin with. I can not do that to them or myself.

So, I am now officially screwed. I wish I did not have the dogs at the moemnt, as life would be easier right now without them... But at the same time, without them I have no reason to live, no happiness, no one to truly care about. I refuse to give them up for anything, because I need them more than they need me. They are my children!

I am really beginning to understand how a person could kill themselves and their entire families in the process now. Not that I could do something like that to someone/something else... But I can really understand the mindset at the moment. Feels like there is no other way out. If I do myself, the dogs suffer, and will definitely die just because no one will come looking for me until they come to break down the door to repo the house in a year or two. Real stinky I bet!

If I kill them first, it will be really easy to kill myself because I would not be able to live with myself after doing something like that to something I love more than anything in the world... But it is not their fault I am such a loser, so when the time comes I may have to try and find them a good home somehow... But I do not want to live without them!

I am screwed!

Edited August 13, 2012 by Froglips