I used to feel this way but I tell myself that even if I don't belong to any kind of social groups, I still am, who I am. It is like wearing expensive clothes vs. cheap ones. Either way, it is still YOU under those clothes whether you are wearing $3,000 suit or a $ 40.00 one.

I guess what I am trying to say, that I am learning how to value ME. Not belonging to anything does not have to be a bad thing, actually lately, I don't even want to belong to any groups. I don't want to try to be accepted. I am used to be by myself. Although, loneliness is part of my depression.

It's kinda funny how that works Lana, Ralph, some people fit in to a group because they don't fit in anywhere else, and some will never be accepted until they accept themselves. Acceptance of yourself somehow shows. Like polishing silver, it seems shiny to begin with but once you polish it you know it really is shiny. Does that make sense.

Anyway I know it is not easy. I use to have problems socializing but I just pretended my way through it now I do much better. Not perfect but on what scale? Or who's?

I don't accept myself which is part of my problem. I'm getting closer to accepting though.

Ralph I have read many of your posts and blogs, there are plenty of qualities to like would it help if I shared some of the things I like?

"... what happens to the ones that don't have any group to be a part of?"

Whenever I find myself making absolute, categorical statements (such as this one), I like to try to append something like "... at the moment" or "sometimes". Well, I do sometimes.

We all have periods (and it could even be all-your-life-up-until-the-day-it-changed) where things aren't the way we'd like. That doesn't mean "things are always that way", just that they have been, so far.

Like Frazz, I don't see how, in a social context, who you prefer to sleep with or the fact that you're quiet would have anything to do with it.

Small talk when you don't want to make small talk may be false, in a way. Yet you do want to socialize with the people you meet, so maybe you do want to make small talk, only you don't know it yet. :-)

There is no definitive human being, we are ever changing. The word for this is irony. We cannot KNOW who we are but we have to care for us anyway. If we do KNOW who we are something happens to change us.

You walk through your house and notice dust on the shelves. Do you leave it, blow it, wipe it with your hand leaving a smudge, or do you get a cloth/duster and clean it?

If you leave it it will get worse. If you blow it it might make you cough and sneeze and get other things dusty. If you wipe it with your hand then your hand is dirty and you call more attention to the clean spot. And if you really clean it it will get dusty again. No matter what you do you are accepting that it IS. And no matter what you do more will need to be done. It is the nature of the beast.

We are HUMAN!

Ralph I have read many of your posts and blogs, there are plenty of qualities to like would it help if I shared some of the things I like?

Yes, that could help.

Most of the things I like about myself though turn out to be liabilities in a social context. For example being compassionate is nice, until you run into somebody who is highly competitive and they walk all over you... I need to learn how to adapt my style to who I'm dealing with since people who prefer to play win/lose will operate on a different set of rules than someone who values win/win scenarios.

Like Frazz' date=' I don't see how, in a social context, who you prefer to sleep with or the fact that you're quiet would have anything to do with it.

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I've gotten feedback that my quietness has come off as elitism (not my intention) or that I'm forcing people to guess what I'm thinking because I have so little input into a conversation. I can see where people are coming from here but at the same time what if people were a little more thoughtful on average and didn't just say everything in their heads. Would there be so much hate speech and polarizing debate? I've been to Canada and it's a totally different experience because it's not the game of who can shout the loudest there.

Who I sleep with makes a big difference because guys love to talk about sex (when they are not talking about football). I can't really relate to straight guys because they want to talk about who's hot and gays don't have much input there, which does tend to cause straights and gays to sequester themselves into opposing camps.

PS thanks for pointing out my all or nothing thinking

just cus your gay doesnt mean u cant get in on the locker room talk. and besides...somehow i doubt malign and Ken are discussing the nearest booty around the water cooler.

maybe you should take up...less mainstream hobbies..how about reptiles? Star Trek? Space in general? Paleontology? Art/Artists/and Art museums? Wine? woops...on second thought..stay out of the vinery. skydiving, wood working, ballooning, take a class, id really like to try ceramics... all you need is something in common with others. explore your interests...perhaps you have a 'yet to be' discovered curiosity, or maybe even passion?

you seem like a decent dude. people just have to get to know you. You have interesting insights...apply them....

btw...american politics annoy the piss out of me...and canadian politics are heading in the same mud-slinging direction. lame.

This is just a short list Ralph and should, by no means be taken as all of the great things about you. It's just what I get from your posts.

You are hard working and a dedicated worker.

You show strength even when it makes you uncomfortable to be strong.

You are honest-at least you try to be-with yourself as well as with others.

You are a sensitive and compassionate person.

These things are easily acceptable. You really should consider the weight of these qualities as a few of them take great effort and are very endearing qualities. I think people would be lucky to call you friend. I hope my opinion helps and you can find use for it.

Take Care

*The Locker Room*

Hey...Ralphie! D'you check out that pic of that Ceasarguy?

C'mon look...If that guy stared into your soul and gave you a command...you'd do it right? SIt! Stay! (lowers voice to a whisper) Rolllll-oooover! =0

If I had to be someones bitch...ya know what i'm sayin?!

=j

Yah, I have to say that I don't talk with other guys about my sex life. There never seemed to be that much of a benefit to it, you see. Unless one lies like a ... dog.

There are guys who do, of course (talk; lie is a personal choice.) I just never enjoyed their company much, given that I value women as more than objects (much less the objects that that kind of guy would make them into.) Plus, I was taught not to indulge in various words for female anatomy that get used in those contexts. And I thereby also escaped defining myself by my own anatomy, which as we know here can sometimes become its own trap.

On other topics, I would point out that how others perceive you is, in fact, their problem. If silence seems elitist to them, what does jabbering on about elitism seem like?

Anyhoo. I know that for those who don't try social contact often, any failure is magnified. The trick is to keep trying.

@frazzled - thank you for the feedback. I didn't know that much came across in my posts. However in real life I am much more reserved. It's much easier to open up from behind a computer screen you know?

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@JaiJai - I don't roll over for anyone, at least not unless they buy me dinner first

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@malign - I guess I take too much responsibility for others' reaction and that makes me inhibited. I will keep trying once I figure out where my trying should take place.