Possitive thinking ????

[SweetSue]

Is there any truth in the power of possitive thinking ?

Or is it something that people just tell us to try and do, when they havnt a clue how to help ?

[JulianP]

deleted....

Edited February 5, 2010 by JulianP

[Guest GingerSnap]

You know I actually thought that was a lot of hooey - positive thinking but then my husband was reading an article on this website: http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=5778&cn=298 and saying, "I want to have that.", so I read it and I said "I have that" and he said, "I know." So, maybe positive thinking develops one's emotional resilience. My emotional resilience probably has much to do with my belief in God and my upbringing but I think one could develop it - it feels good to be "up" (I tested high on the mania scale in the little personality test - but no depression at all.) Isn't it worth a shot? Really, if you ever seen "PollyAnna" and observed her "glad game" as in finding something to be glad about, I know it was just a movie but it works. I annoy people with it especially those that seem to love to dwell in a bad mood. If it is very cold, I am glad it is not raining. When the main water line broke, I was glad at least we were able to have the water on for enough time for baths and laundry each day while we waited two weeks for the plumber to fit us in. Basically, my mood is dependent on me and by golly, I am just too stubborn to let anybody rule my mood!

[Tony J]

You know, I think there is.

I've been noticing more and more my patterns of 'negative' thinking and trying to figure out how they benefit me. And mostly they don't.

To substitute at least some of the negative thoughts with positive ones seems to make my life better. I mean, what's the use of living in the greatest country that ever was and pretending I'm having such a hard time ?

The problem I find now is, when I want to be 'positive' I'm in conflict with another's 'negative' view. But that's a good thing. It means my perspective is changing.

As far as the sort of brain washing methods in Peale's books, they're hit and miss. I don't think I can use positive thinking as a denial or avoidance mechanism and be happy. What I can do is take honest positive things in my life and not turn them negative.

Is there any truth in the power of possitive thinking ?

Or is it something that people just tell us to try and do, when they havnt a clue how to help ?

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Tony J and everyone,

Actually, there is some recent research that "positive thinking" is harmful because, despite one's best efforts, it is difficult or impossible to believe it. In fact, if the positive thinking runs counter to how you really feel, it can make you feel worse.

This is why Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and CBT self help techniques work much better. CBT is something people can learn to do by themselves because there are lots of books about it and we have a forum for it. Rather than trying to memorize positive thoughts, you do a self assessment, and you learn how to do that, and come up with a realistic self assessment rather than blanket positive thoughts.

For example, yesterday some told me that, "with all of my problems, I will never be able to hold a job." We went over that "automatic thought" and came up with a more realistic conclusion: "I will be able to hold a job but I will have to learn to better control my temper which is something I can learn. I know it will be difficult but I know I can do it because I did it in college."

That is much more believable than something optimistic but unfounded.

What do you think?

[SweetSue]

personally ~ THANKYOU ALLAN

I have been encouraged (overly so) to do Possitive thinking, these past few weeks. (by the staff in this hospital) It has been driving me to tears. The frustration of actually trying to find anything possitive about my situation, well its been too difficult for words.

Thanks for the insight, at least theres a little hope that maybe, just maybe, there is a reason why I cant find my way out of the depression that has become my life.

[malign]

JJ,

There's a difference between saying that "positive thinking" doesn't work, and saying that it's okay to give up all hope.

"Positive thinking" is the name of a therapy that suggested that all you had to do to achieve some positive goal was to believe that it was possible or even, certain, and just thinking that would allow you to reach the goal.

The research suggests that it doesn't work if you don't believe the positive thought.

However, if the opposite was true, that all the negative thoughts that come with depression are facts, then essentially all depressed people would end up as suicides. The point is, even though depression can make it hard to see or believe in anything positive, those good things still exist. They can be achieved. What you need to do is to bridge the gap to believe that.

What it does not say is that there is ever a time when the right thing to do is give up.

[SweetSue]

Malign,,

Hmmm, well.....

It may not say it is OK to give up or indeed give in. However, sometimes there is no logical way of doing the right thing. Isnt it possible that doing the wrong thing (in some peoples point of view) sometimes is kinda a positive reaction. especially when its the only logical so;ution I can come up with.

[malign]

Nope, that's not logic.

Depression is the thing that tells you there's nothing you can do.

As long as you're breathing, logic says there must be something you can do.

[SweetSue]

you have a point

perhaps its not possitive thinking, thats the problem, maybe its my logic (or severe lack of) maybe its just me thats the problem. I am the common denominater (is that even a word) im the common factor in this. Therefore im the problem.

Edited October 20, 2009 by SweetSue

[malign]

But sweety, all problems have solutions.

If you feel a huge need to blame yourself, I'll let you, but you seem to be assuming that you're also unchangeable.

[SweetSue]

there is no one else to blame

Once upon a time......

I was a moma, as a family, we had very little. However we had love and laughter, we were safe and we had eachother. our lifes were a fairy tale in the making. We waited and lived, whilst watching our dreams unfold.

Then I got ill, my family torn apart from eachother, 5 of us, now on our own. The only hope we had of ever getting back together laid firmly upon my shoulders. I had unwillingly broke our family, and in the process, hurt my children.

Now, there were fights to be had. Some battles won, some lost. But no matter what I did. We are still apart.

The fairy tale that was our life, that I faught so hard for and achieved, well its gone. its replacement a living nightmare.

I can no longer have my Fairy tale for my family, all I can do now is put into place, a chance for my children to live theirs.

For me I have to stay in my nightmare, My children get to try for there happy ever after.

THE END

[malign]

Hey listen, there's a huge gap in your story:

You go from the fairy tale being broken, to

You can never have it again.

Broken things can almost always be fixed. Why did you leave out that possibility?

You seem almost eager to doom yourself to hopelessness.

[SweetSue]

thats how i am feeling. maybe its the depression talking or maybe its just the way i am. i dont know.

youre right there is always someway, to amend things that are broken, i just cant see it. maybe things willl change, maybe they will just stay the same. i dont know. i am tired, tired of fighting all the time, and the biggest fight i face right now isnt social services (though that dont help) its a battle against myself. and i dont know if i can win that one

[Tony J]

I think you are correct.

I've done some work with David Burns' technique and I've also done some of N.V. Peale's.

They both seem to have their pros and cons. CBT is kind of bulky and time consuming and you may not be able to do it 'on the spot'. But taking a rational look and putting things in perspective is the first step in taking a positive approach. And I'm a fan of 'getting the pen out' for various reasons.

Burn's advises that.

I've heard some semi-bad things about the Peale type approach also. I think the worst part of it would be telling yourself that you aren't allowed to have negative thoughts. That's sort of what he hints at. If you take him literally you get the impression that you're supposed to be a happy 'Stepford Wife' sort of robot.

CBT seems to allow for the negative thoughts and then has the individual filter out the 'real' negatives from the 'false' or 'silly' things. A bit more pratcical for us flawed human beings.

And, as luck would have it, many of my day to day conflicts actually are trivial. Just filing that stuff away in the 'not important folder' frees up alot of mental space.

(for doing things like participationg in mental health forums)

Hi Tony J and everyone,

Actually, there is some recent research that "positive thinking" is harmful because, despite one's best efforts, it is difficult or impossible to believe it. In fact, if the positive thinking runs counter to how you really feel, it can make you feel worse.

This is why Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and CBT self help techniques work much better. CBT is something people can learn to do by themselves because there are lots of books about it and we have a forum for it. Rather than trying to memorize positive thoughts, you do a self assessment, and you learn how to do that, and come up with a realistic self assessment rather than blanket positive thoughts.

For example, yesterday some told me that, "with all of my problems, I will never be able to hold a job." We went over that "automatic thought" and came up with a more realistic conclusion: "I will be able to hold a job but I will have to learn to better control my temper which is something I can learn. I know it will be difficult but I know I can do it because I did it in college."

That is much more believable than something optimistic but unfounded.

What do you think?

[Guest GingerSnap]

Positive thinking, I didn't realize it was a theory or something. Isn't there some way you can work on a plan, a map for your way back, not to a fairy tale, life isn't like that for anyone I don't think but some realistic little steps that you can build hope on? I looked at CBT and it seemed complicated to me and for people that are patient but I was just curious as to what it was. So, jessicajane1925, can you map a way back to a life that you would find satisfying? I agree no situation is hopeless and I think you do too or you wouldn't be here looking for answers so down deep you know there is hope. I wish I could help and I don't see why you have to think positive about your current situation unless you are mapping a way back to a satisfying life or having positive thoughts about what can be. I am just stubborn and no one tells me what I am going to think! and I pay for it too but I don't mind the price:rolleyes:

[SweetSue]

Hey Gingersnap,

Yep, Positive thinking is part of my therapy (its a poor excuse of a joke)((or at least feels that way at times)

I have had a change of heart, (again I know). Im not giving up now, no where near, think Ive gone from one extreme to the other. (nothing new for me there)

My long term plan is :-

1. Get myself out of this place

2. fight for my children to come home

3. Get my children home

4. Live our Fairy Tale.

Fairy Tales, may only be stories, in some ways stories can reflect real life. I have always believed in them (sad i know) but there is where most of my hope springs from.

I will achieve this. and damn anyone that stands in the way of my family. We belong together. Its gonna take time, what dosnt, but this moma aint never giving up on my kids.

That I think strangly sounds like possitive thinking. Darn it, maybe im begining to crack that old chestnut too !!!

[malign]

The way I see it, fairy tales, as such, don't come true. They're for entertainment.

But, what makes them entertaining is that they can inspire dreams. Dreams are a way of deciding what it is that you want to come true, in your life. They are a way for the non-verbal part of the brain, the imagination, if you wish, to get a say in what you plan for yourself. Then the verbal part, which is better at details, chips in with a concrete plan. Then you implement it, get it done.

Positive thinking is just what you use when you think you won't get there. So, in a way, you only need it when you don't have it. ;-)

Go for it, Sue.

[SweetSue]

Hmmmm, Mark

Now im confussed is Possitive Thinking necessary,as part of my recovery,?

or as I originally thought,

just something that people tell you to do when they dont know how to help.?

[malign]

What I mean is, the therapy called "Positive Thinking" probably won't be necessary, because when you actually believe it and are determined, positive thinking (the activity) just happens.

That's the hard part: all those people meant well, and in a way, were actually correct. Once you start thinking in a positive way, things do change. The difficulty is that no one can make you think positively, except you. So all they could do to help was suggest it. You were the one who had to do it.

[SweetSue]

Cheers Mark !!!

[IrmaJean]

About the research on positive thinking...I've read the studies. What they say makes sense, but I really think you have to take the entire situation into context. I wouldn't want folks out there believing that they should wallow in negativity either.

I think what it means is that you have to face your difficulties. You have to face your pain and face the things about yourself and your life that you want to change. You can't shove everything under the rug and live in the fantasy world of pretending problems don't exist.

What has helped me a great deal in my life is not so much thinking positive, but having a positive outlook on things. I don't say to myself..."Your lack of assertiveness is great!!" Instead I think that perhaps I should look at this lack of assertivesness and understand why I am like this. And what can I do to make this more acceptable to myself? I try to let light in at all costs... see the gray in everything...dig down deep and see what I'm made of. All of us have the power within ourselves to make improvements and seek out our dreams.

So I think that being a positive type of person has been extremely helpful to me. That doesn't mean not seeing things the way they are, but it means believing in myself enough to know that I can make life what I want it to be. I can attempt to achieve my goals and not give in to circumstances.

So, JJ, maybe think in baby steps.

Goal 1- Get out of this place.

That means you have to work very hard on yourself first. If you think down to Goal 4 before achieving Goal 1, you might become discouraged. One step at a time. You can do this. I believe in you.

[SweetSue]

Hey IrmaJean,

Yep, thats a tough one. im up for review this friday, (again). Hoping they let me out of here, (maybe thats a tad optimistic) or atleast that they dont renew the section.(again)

Goal 1.

Its gonna be tough going, I keep messing up. but atleast I managed to get out of bed today, and go to the meeting. Im tired, so sleepy, just trying to stay awake coz well I have another meeting in a while.

So much for hospitals being a place of rest. Ive never had to work so hard in my life (ok maybe thats a little exagerated) but its hard work !!!

I just need to learn some patience, being a patient. (that sounds funny)

thanks IrmaJean

take care

sue

[Guest GingerSnap]

There you go, a positive, you are learning to work hard. That is what parenting is about so consider yourself in training. Imagine the teen years ahead with the kids and you're getting a kind of boot camp right now to prepare. Glad to see you are being positive. Yes, your number one goal is to get out of the hospital. I can say having adopted a child that children are much better off with their natural parent when possible when it comes to their mental and physical health. Remember the little engine that could "I know I can". You have to find a way to keep focus on being back home with the kids, like a horse with blinders on. I don't understand your mental condition but you come across as really together in your posts - intelligent, sensitive and someone who has the potential to be a really good parent. So, I wonder, is being positive about your life ahead of not more benefit than some therapy about positive thinking? Stay focused or as Cesar Milan, The Dog Whisperer (he is so great! and if you haven't seen him, there is much to be learned that applies to humans), Stay Calm and Assertive!

[SweetSue]

Thanks GingerSnap,

I tend not to post in the forums when Im not with it. (sometimes my hypers get the better of me though !!!) I relie heavily on my blogs, now they really dont make sense (some of them). I tend to just let out on my blogs first to try and calm myself a little before I make a complete womble of myself out here in public. Theres a wierd logic to my madness somewhere,I just have to locate it sometimes. (well a lot).

Possitive thinking, well, I dont think to me it helps. I think trying to stay focussed on what I need to achieve is kinda more essential to me, to my family.

Maybe if I can do that, I will be able to achieve something possitive, without thinking possitively. it must be possible for possitiveness to just happen, as part of a natural course in life. ( or maybe I need to work on this more, not sure really)

thankyou for your kindness

take care

Jj