Reducing Reputation

[seaj]

I must say I'm now more confused than I was when initially reading what this was all about.

But what David O expressed in his first post was how I came to understand it. I'll repost it so no-one has to go find it:

"... giving points not to people I agree with, but to those whose post provides remarkable insights, helps others substantively, or contributes to the health of the community significantly, thereby encouraging constructive posting.

Likewise I've been guilty of giving negative reputation points 2-3 times, not b/c I disagreed with a poster's philosophic stance, but b/c the poster repeatedly used language or put forth ideas (e.g., referring to members they disagree with by using insulting comments, language or inflammatory statements) that hurt other members despite attempts via pm's and on the forum to have them show respect for fellow members."

Though I haven't been here very long, I have been at other boards before and ones following this very format and I think what he spoke of is a very excellent way to use the "reputation" option.

Interesting discussion. I have to say, I agree with Julian--I don't see why we need the reputation point system at all. I don't think it adds anything. I can't believe that new posters are going to be encouraged or discouraged by the number. I'm sure a welcoming atmosphere is far more useful in that regard than an obscure "reputation" number at the top of the post (I bet most people don't even notice it).

Claire

I have to disagree. I think they have the potential of being really quite constructive, if not to all, at least to people who care about their impact. I'm new and did notice the "obscure reputation number". I will say I noticed it most when I wrote a response specifically sharing advice with someone (something I was reluctant at first to do). For that thread someone gave me a positive reputation point that helped me feel confident the next time I felt the desire to share advice again.

Without hijacking a thread or having to PM me, I felt someone had given me a little nudge to let me know that I was on the right path and to keep on with the way I was going. Being new and not knowing the manner of speech people responded to and what went down okay, etc, etc, that was a big help for me. Someone had taken a little bit of time out of their day to acknowledge something I’d put thought into sharing and I appreciate what feels like a pat on the back or a little piece of encouragement. I do realise some posters say such things in their posts, but not everyone is like that or feels comfortable doing that.

And well, I guess I haven’t been here long enough to have a more well-rounded opinion than that. But I will say, being restricted to the one forum when I did join did feel frustrating, so I imagine it would be a massive turn off for someone whose sole purpose was to spam. I just remember at the time wishing I understood why I was restricted.

[Tony J]

I think it's interesting that it's being used to control how a poster thinks.

If you repeat the pablum that the 'controlers' of the group like, they bump up your rep. If not they bump it down.

It's a way for the ones who see themselves as 'alpha' to control the ones they see at 'beta'.

When you get a poster like me who either doesn't care or is happy to have his reps diminished, then it creates all kinds of chaos among the would be 'alphas'.

The world would be perfect if only they would all liten to me....lol !!!

[David O]

Tony J>> I think it's interesting that it's being used to control how a poster thinks. I'm not sure that's why the points are removed or given. I have used them not to control how one thinks but what one says after repeated requests that they stop insulting fellow members. When a member repeatedly makes insulting remarks, diagnosis others as crazy, or otherwise inflames the discussion, even after being asked not to, to me that is damaging to the community as a whole.

If you repeat the pablum that the 'controlers' of the group like, they bump up your rep. If not they bump it down. Again, I will refer you to my comment above. While this practice may exist, I don't believe it's widespread; however, when several members pm me or write to me via my e-mail addess to complain about a member who repeatedly insults others, then it seems that issue is not the philosophy one espouses, but the way in which it is expressed.

It's a way for the ones who see themselves as 'alpha' to control the ones they see at 'beta'. This is a rather grandiose view, in fact it's the opposite, I can't think of more than a couple of folks here wanting to control others... there is nothing to be gained and the community suffers. I repeat, the issue is not one's opinion or views (we welcome and encourage dissent and opinios outside the mainstream, as long as they are prsented respectfully and without trying to impose them on others), it's how one presents them-- do they show respect for others or do they express contempt and disdain thru insulting posts.

When you get a poster like me who either doesn't care or is happy to have his reps diminished, then it creates all kinds of chaos among the would be 'alphas'. Surely thou doth protest to much.

The world would be perfect if only they would all liten to me....lol !!! We do listen to you, and we want to honor and respect what you say; however, when posts become damaging (and if you need specific examples, those can be easily provided), it makes it hard for me to appreciate the content of what one is reading when I'm busy dealing with the peripheral material (name calling, insults, hostile exchanges).

Tony, this is not directed specifically at you, there have been a few members who repeatedly use language that is damaging to the community. It makes it an unsafe place for others, and I strongly believe we all have a responsibility to keep the community safe for everyone, especially in light of the fact that there are many who vist this site and who are quiet fragile or who may also have a severe and persistent mental illness.

Finally, Tony, my intent is not to be difficult or disrespectful, but to honestly address your views.

David

[Tony J]

Yes David, the community does suffer from a few people with control issues playing the moderators like a fiddle. That's my point !!!

And this "The world would be perfect if only they would all listen to me....lol !!! " was sarcasm (one of my many gifts)

I didn't mean that you don't listen to me, I meant the 'would be alphas' think that if the world would only do as they say, everything would be fine.

Tony J>> I think it's interesting that it's being used to control how a poster thinks. I'm not sure that's why the points are removed or given. I have used them not to control how one thinks but what one says after repeated requests that they stop insulting fellow members. When a member repeatedly makes insulting remarks, diagnosis others as crazy, or otherwise inflames the discussion, even after being asked not to, to me that is damaging to the community as a whole.

If you repeat the pablum that the 'controlers' of the group like, they bump up your rep. If not they bump it down. Again, I will refer you to my comment above. While this practice may exist, I don't believe it's widespread; however, when several members pm me or write to me via my e-mail addess to complain about a member who repeatedly insults others, then it seems that issue is not the philosophy one espouses, but the way in which it is expressed.

It's a way for the ones who see themselves as 'alpha' to control the ones they see at 'beta'. This is a rather grandiose view, in fact it's the opposite, I can't think of more than a couple of folks here wanting to control others... there is nothing to be gained and the community suffers. I repeat, the issue is not one's opinion or views (we welcome and encourage dissent and opinios outside the mainstream, as long as they are prsented respectfully and without trying to impose them on others), it's how one presents them-- do they show respect for others or do they express contempt and disdain thru insulting posts.

When you get a poster like me who either doesn't care or is happy to have his reps diminished, then it creates all kinds of chaos among the would be 'alphas'. Surely thou doth protest to much.

The world would be perfect if only they would all liten to me....lol !!!

We do listen to you, and we want to honor and respect what you say; however, when posts become damaging (and if you need specific examples, those can be easily provided), it makes it hard for me to appreciate the content of what one is reading when I'm busy dealing with the peripheral material (name calling, insults, hostile exchanges).

Tony, this is not directed specifically at you, there have been a few members who repeatedly use language that is damaging to the community. It makes it an unsafe place for others, and I strongly believe we all have a responsibility to keep the community safe for everyone, especially in light of the fact that there are many who vist this site and who are quiet fragile or who may also have a severe and persistent mental illness.

Finally, Tony, my intent is not to be difficult or disrespectful, but to honestly address your views.

David

[seaj]

I think the beta's should care more about helping others and how they phrase that help - and if need be, take advise from the alpha's or other beta's (but I figure alpha's are put in that role for a reason) on how to better word their help, if it happens to be coming across in a damaging way that could be detrimental to the health of people here who obviously already have enough issues to deal with.

I don't know you Tony or your issue (other than what you've stated), but I think it's a sad state if you desire more to make you own point via way of hurting others, than step back for a moment and take stock and start over in a place where anyone would let you. I don't know why but the way you typed makes me think of a quote judges often say to fighting divorced parents - you've gotta love your kids more than you hate each other. So maybe you've gotta love being here more than you hate the "alpha's". :eek:

[SweetSue]

OK, Im megga confused now, whats alpha and betta about this site ? :confused:

Tony you say that you dont really care, but I kinda do. You see everyone here has a right to be treated equally, with respect and consideration. You may or may not care less about rep points, but I think maybe you do, just a little. (mmm, just a thought).

Anyway Im sure the Moderators have a mind of there own and arent swayed one way or another. Its kinda there role (i think) to make that "judgement call". And certainly in the time I have been here they have been pretty fair. (although still I wonder about the thread of mine they closed, hmmm.)

And as that other member that pm'd you to offer support, I still offer you support now, you have made quite a lot of valuable posts on this site, and well personally I hope that you continue to do so.

OK, now Ive forgotten in my old age what I was trying to say (need a new brain cell ~ go figure) Oh well im gonna post this, and edit it later when and indeed if I remember

Take care

Jj

[JulianP]

deleted.....

Edited February 6, 2010 by JulianP

[seaj]

OK, Im megga confused now, whats alpha and betta about this site ? :confused:

I just wanna clear up I used those terms to respond to Tony using his own terms.

[SweetSue]

hey Julian and seaj,

Sorry I really am confused tonight. (long story, brain cell has decided to nap on me again)

Julian, as ever thankyou for making me smile ~ (you are very funny, if I could laugh then that would of been when I would of.) Youre very kind, and generous with the warmth of your words

Take good care

sue

[Tony J]

Nahh, I don't care about them. I've posted on some pretty tough sites.

I do care about certain people crying to the moderators and the moderators reacting (over reacting ?).

Then you have to worry about everything you post and the content becomes very lame. Remember H Ross Perot : 'lead, follow or get out of the way ' ?

That's what happens when you get people chirping behind the scenes. They don't contribute anything but they can burden the rest of the community.

People need to learn to mind their own business. If you don't like a topic or get too upset by reading it, then ignore it. How hard is that really ?

Saying you're complaining 'for the good of the community' when you obviously have an opposing philosophical position is just.......weak.

OK, Im megga confused now, whats alpha and betta about this site ? :confused:

Tony you say that you dont really care, but I kinda do. You see everyone here has a right to be treated equally, with respect and consideration. You may or may not care less about rep points, but I think maybe you do, just a little. (mmm, just a thought).

Jj

[JulianP]

deleted.....

Edited February 6, 2010 by JulianP

[seaj]

Tony, it sounds like you're complaining (and I hate to use that word - would upset be better?) about things (or something) that happened in the past and you aren't even speaking of them happening in the present. i.e. referring to your remark that people speak "for the good of the community". Which btw, by my understanding, would be the accepted right and expectation of moderators. I add that just in case you’re referring to them doing that.

I would agree on other types of sites it may be easy to ignore a topic upfront if it's the type of thing that may upset you. But in this type of forum you could approach a topic and someone's demeanour about said topic or directly to you in that thread could be very upsetting. I’ve only been here a short while and believe I’ve come across 4 threads (I think that’s correct, it may be more) started around the same topic since then and they all contain greatly different content in most of the posts, even if a few posts carry some of the same general information. Also not liking/being upset by something may not occur in the first post of the thread or even the fifth. You could be well invested in a thread before someone posts something that's upsetting to you, so saying mind your own business or simply don't read is not as easy as you make it sound.

I also can’t see why you can’t make room for people having fragile personalities. Should they not allow themselves to be as informed as much as anyone else because they may be more easily upset? It seems to me that that is your opinion. I would think in such a situation a moderator would make a judgement call that was, as you said yourself, “for the good of the community”. If it did no harm to anyone else to allow someone who has been hurt to feel better why would this bother you so?

I would also have to add that just because you are someone who elects to read but not post and gain knowledge/help/understanding/inspiration/whatever else that way doesn't deny you the right to form the ability to be upset by something.

[SweetSue]

Sorry if I offended you Tony, I really am getting rather confused these days :eek:

[David O]

Tony,

Your comment: “People need to learn to mind their own business. If you don't like a topic or get too upset by reading it, then ignore it. How hard is that really ?” was enlightening. It reminded of my elevator ride with another man who kept passing gas loudly while we rode up 32 floors. He would pass gas sounding like a wart hog, look at the three of us in the elevator with him and smile. After a few floors someone gave him a look and his comment to her was: “Hey, if you don’t like the sound, plug your ears… and if you don’t like the smell, WTF, stop breathing or breathe through your mouth!” He continued to pass gas but added burping to the experience. This was the only elevator, it was very slow, and no one wanted to climb the 32 floors with their books, papers and other work materials.

Tony, I’ll be blunt since it seems that previous efforts by others have been returned as “undeliverable.” What you’re asking others to do is akin to what that man was telling the three of us in the elevator with him. I read you posts b/c you often have something to contribute; however, I also become concerned when others have to be called delusional, liars, drama queen, cry baby, don’t flatter yourself, and many other insults and attacks on their dignity. This is a small family here and we all live in a small “house”--- as such, we need to be sensitive and not “pass gas and burp” as we move from room to room. You and I, everyone, has a responsibility to keep the house safe and the family as healthy as possible—and when one person sneezes, others catch a cold.

While we all welcome and even encourage dissenting views, we also need to protect and safeguard each, and we all carry this responsibility—no one is immune, not Tony J or David O, or Julian or Mark or Sue or McGowdog. Likewise, I would be equally blunt with anyone who I saw disrespecting you, so it works both ways.

Sincerely,

David O

Edited November 24, 2009 by David O

[Tony J]

Why would you have offended me ?

Sorry if I offended you Tony, I really am getting rather confused these days :eek:

[Tony J]

I would have gotten out on the next floor and waited for the elevator to come back down without the guy in it and then rode it up.

But then again, I don't like smelling peoples farts just so I can complain about it..........

Tony,

Your comment: “People need to learn to mind their own business. If you don't like a topic or get too upset by reading it, then ignore it. How hard is that really ?” was enlightening. It reminded of my elevator ride with another man who kept passing gas loudly while we rode up 32 floors. He would pass gas sounding like a wart hog, look at the three of us in the elevator with him and smile. After a few floors someone gave him a look and his comment to her was: “Hey, if you don’t like the sound, plug your ears… and if you don’t like the smell, WTF, stop breathing or breathe through your mouth!” He continued to pass gas but added burping to the experience. This was the only elevator, it was very slow, and no one wanted to climb the 32 floors with their books, papers and other work materials.

Tony, I’ll be blunt since it seems that previous efforts by others have been returned as “undeliverable.” What you’re asking others to do is akin to what that man was telling the three of us in the elevator with him. I read you posts b/c you often have something to contribute; however, I also become concerned when others have to be called delusional, liars, drama queen, cry baby, don’t flatter yourself, and many other insults and attacks on their dignity. This is a small family here and we all live in a small “house”--- as such, we need to be sensitive and not “pass gas and burp” as we move from room to room. You and I, everyone, has a responsibility to keep the house safe and the family as healthy as possible—and when one person sneezes, others catch a cold.

While we all welcome and even encourage dissenting views, we also need to protect and safeguard each, and we all carry this responsibility—no one is immune, not Tony J or David O, or Julian or Mark or Sue or McGowdog. Likewise, I would be equally blunt with anyone who I saw disrespecting you, so it works both ways.

Sincerely,

David O

[David O]

Tony, Since you've turned this into a game, I'll play it your way.

Edited November 25, 2009 by David O

[xenophon]

David, proceed as indicated.

[Tony J]

Is that 'thumbs down' for me ??

I'm giving myself a 'thumbs up'.

It's very self affirming.

Tony, Since you've turned this into a game, I'll play it your way.

[seaj]

Tony,

While we all welcome and even encourage dissenting views, we also need to protect and safeguard each, and we all carry this responsibility—no one is immune, not Tony J or David O, or Julian or Mark or Sue or McGowdog. Likewise, I would be equally blunt with anyone who I saw disrespecting you, so it works both ways.

David O

Really, would ya? Still? While someone intentionally pretends to not understand (unless he was genuine about the lift and he really doesn't get it) and intentionally tries to inflame a situation all while doing so under the a mist of naivety and seeming holly than thou.

At least it's nice to see he does understand, he simply doesn't like the rules. Why try and hide behind 'humour' in a thread like this, at a place like this. It seems like a strange mentality to bring here. Just my 5 cents.

[Tony J]

uh oh.....

It seems a poster has indirectly attacked the dignity of another poster.

I wonder what the moderators will do......the suspense is killing me.

[SweetSue]

Tony,

Are you ok ?

"Happy Thanks Giving"

************************************

************************************

Im going to once again ask everyone to please try and be nice to each other, and well there really is more than enough hurt around, do we really have to create more.

Personally this site is a kinda life line to me at times, and a lot of people here have helped me through a very difficult few months. I consider a lot of people here really good friends and yep, the soppy side of me thinks of you all as family.

Oh I dont really know what Im trying to say really, but everyone here deserves to be treated with respect, and consideration whether its the admin team, the pros, the moderators or the members, we all come here more or less for the same reason. to find our little piece of the world where we feel safe, comfortable, and arent judged, because we know we are all amongst friends, and people understand (or try to) care, and help support each other.

Please, everyone cant we all just try to get along

take care

Jj

Edited November 26, 2009 by SweetSue
erm trying to make this post of mine make sense (ooops)

[Tony J]

I am okay, thank you.

And Happy Thanksgiving to you. (why did you blush lol)

It seems I'm a safety threat around here and will be leaving.

That's kind of a shame. I need to go where I fit in I guess.......

But I want to thank you for welcoming me when you did. It really did make me feel good.

Peace.

Tony,

Are you ok ?

"Happy Thanks Giving"

************************************

************************************

Im going to once again ask everyone to please try and be nice to each other, and well there really is more than enough hurt around, do we really have to create more.

Personally this site is a kinda life line to me at times, and a lot of people here have helped me through a very difficult few months. I consider a lot of people here really good friends and yep, the soppy side of me thinks of you all as family.

Oh I dont really know what Im trying to say really, but everyone here deserves to be treated with respect, and consideration whether its the admin team, the pros, the moderators or the members, we all come here more or less for the same reason. to find our little piece of the world where we feel safe, comfortable, and arent judged, because we know we are all amongst friends, and people understand (or try to) care, and help support each other.

Please, everyone cant we all just try to get along

take care

Jj

[SweetSue]

Hi Tony,

Well I hope that you reconsider leaving here, as you have wrote a lot of insightful posts that I am sure have helped many people, but I guess ultimately the decision to leave is yours.

Why do you feel that you are a safety threat around here ?

(erm ok stupid question if you have already left )

I wish you happiness, and truely hope that you find the place where you feel you fit in, hopefully you will reconsider, and decide that you fit in round here after all

Take good care

Jj

[Timothy]

I am a new member having just joined in December. Please do not take my comments as any sort of criticism just simply my experience thus far.

After I joined, my reputation was at 7 after a couple of days and stayed at 7 ever since. As a new member, my reputation is very important to me. I came here to hopefully connect with others who share my challenges and perhaps gain strength my helping someone else. I have had 3 people ask me to be a "friend" and this made me feel welcome.

I have tried to honestly share who I am. As a person I approach things or at least try to approach things with some level of humor. All my life humor has been a defense mechanism. At times, humor has at times been a welcome friend and years ago even paid some bills.

Today I found my reputation went down to 6. For me, as a new member, this was devastating. For you senior members this may not seem to be a reasonable response but I am trying to gain acceptance and still be me, once I realized that someone has been impacted negatively, I question whether I should continue to be myself. I assume that someone may have been offended by my humor.

My suggestion would be to eliminate the "reputation" system. Would it be more reasonable to have experienced, senior members, safe guard the site and weed out spammers or other unwanted visitors? If I offended anyone I would appreciate knowing, ideally from the person I offended, with my view or opinion. If that person would prefer to remain anonymous, could a senior member not communicate this message

I may seem fragile and perhaps I am, however, trying to find acceptance with a daily visible "do we like him" indicator can be intimidating to a newcomer.

Tim