Reducing Reputation

[Symora]

I have to agree with Tim. I have felt let down by the fact that my reputation never changes. It's silly really since I don't really know you out there in cyberworld:), but I feel that I have found a nice place to be and I have noticed it is helping me rebuilt trust. I'm new to forums and frankly I'm not even clear why the reputation is there - the mention of spammers confused me mostly:confused: All I know is that if someone brought down my score I might not come back - I'm insecure right now and I'm always concerned I will sound stupid... The safe environment is working for me, I can feel the positive effects of it. I really appreciate that the senior members work hard to ensure the forum remains supportive and encouraging.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wish I had not found out about the reputation option, now I have this feeling like I'm being graded It's just an element I wish wasn't part of the conversation...

Edited January 15, 2010 by Symora

[seaj]

I've been on the number I'm at for a good 70 posts or so now, I feel I can relate. But I don't think getting rid of it is the right move. I feel I've been just as helpful since before I got the points and after when I haven't had anymore - but to me it feels like when you get to a certain point the bar is raised, so to speak. Which is a healthy thing I think. It lets you know how productive what you're saying is, especially when a message is left with the points.

I also feel like I talk in the same circles of people and then others who probably don't realise the can give points and think, "oh well, I'm not here for point - it can be rewarding, but it's by no means a reason I'm here, let alone a priority and I refuse to let it impact me".

[tourdelove]

Quoting Malign:

"I feel a need to express my outrage at the emerging practice of using the site's reputation system to disapprove of a post, purely on philosophical grounds.

We are not a popularity contest. The sole reason that the reputation is in existence is to provide a way to examine posts for potential spam sources.

It has subsequently been used as an anonymous way to encourage fellow posters, and that's fine."

Nuff said.

This reputation and voting system is imbedded in the Forum's system. It's part of a template. Practically all forums have them, and several 'community' based internet services do too...Where it may be useful to a certain extent on a site for sellers and buyers like ebay, frankly, the relevance and the actual true benefit of this feature on mentalhelp.net is quite debatable. Besides, even in the case of ebay, there are unfortunately many ways to contour and inflate one's reputation quite easily. Buyers beware they say, and rightly so

I only became more aware of the importance people gave to this feature on our site recently myself, when I came upon a discussion between two users about agreeing to better each others 'reputation' numbers. Who knew. Never really paid attention to it before, as they had already proved to be quite unreliable in other forums I had seen.

Conclusion:

continue to ignore feature.

Peace.

T

[seaj]

I only became more aware of the importance people gave to this feature on our site recently myself, when I came upon a discussion between two users about agreeing to better each others 'reputation' numbers. Who knew. Never really paid attention to it before, as they had already proved to be quite unreliable in other forums I had seen.

Conclusion:

continue to ignore feature.

Peace.

T

To such people I would say, so be it, let them have high reputation. There posts will speak for themselves whether the reputation has been earnt. For me, it's often the comments that come with the reputation point that are encouraging or just knowing you are taking what's considered by others, a good approach toward tackling a challenge. And if someone is insisting on being difficult, then I'd like to be able to see that at first glance too I must say. Helps you know who is here for real help and who is here to be annoying.

* ETA: I don't consider a lack of points a bad thing either. I just consider that to be someone I can rely on getting a great "person next doors' " opinion from and who just may not take part as often or who is the one who is there for a hug or the like. And it's a good way to know which way I'm turning.

Edited February 16, 2010 by seaj

[Luna-]

As a relatively new member, but one who wishes to stick around and be part of this community, a few thoughts:

On depressionforums.com there used to be a 5-post rule for newbies. You had to reach a post count of 5 before you could start a new thread. There was a New Members thread where you could post at first, and where you could also write about a crisis so that you were not excluded from asking for help right off the bat. (I would venture to guess that most people seek out a support group when they're in difficulty or crisis, so early posts are often written in distress.) After posts you could start a thread anywhere. Since most spamsters don't stick around that long, that handled it and joining wasn't moderated. And if you couldn't behave civilly you got PMed and then banned.

On that forum, besides spam, there was enormous volume, much of which came from new people "popping in" to ask a question and then never coming back. It became demoralising to do the whole "welcome, tell us about yourself" thing or respond to a crisis post (or let me own it and say I allowed myself to become burnt out with welcoming and crisis responding) when so many just wanted an answer to a question, didn't want to join a community and often didn't even say thanks, just disappeared. Compassion fatigue.

I must confess I also got focused on the Reputation at first. I felt like I had just come in and was being judged. I understood about the spam thing, but it also felt that I had to prove that my problem was serious enough. That's my stuff and comes from me alone but low self-esteem in active illness pretty much goes with the territory. (On bad days I still worry whether my posts are acceptable.)

There is a sticky 'Welcome New Members' thread which says why the Rep is there, but I missed that part on the first read-through. If you're distressed, I think you're more inclined to miss it. A separate sticky thread called 'Reputation' might be a chance to make the whole spam reason clear and that it isn't about popularity or judgment.

Just throwing in my 2c (and our currency is poor against the dollar, so...)

Edited February 16, 2010 by Luna-

[seaj]

Just throwing in my 2c (and our currency is poor against the dollar, so...)

That's cute, I like it - I like the way you think throw such a thing in.

Like your signature too btw.

[JaneE]

Hi! I know this is kind of an old thread, but I don't get to spend a lot of time here...!

I think I'm just beginning to understand the "Rep" thing...! On the other couple of fora I belong to there's just post count, and privileges or not according to that, but this is the only non-hobby-oriented forum I belong to so I guess it'd have to be set up differently!

I feel bad because I've received a lot of rep, but I didn't know what it was or how I got it, and I haven't given any in return!!! My apologies! #^^#

I tend to have to 'hit-and-run' with my posts, too... because my eyes get tired quickly and I can't read online for long. Also there have been topics I've read and not felt capable of addressing the situation at all!!

But I'm just grateful for the comments I've received in my own threads (which tend to be posted in distress, oops) and will try to visit more often and be more supportive of others.

I think abusive members who just "don't get it" should be banned or asked to leave, particularly if they've been PMd with concerns and disregarded them. There's no excuse for that! One forum I belong to has a "Three strikes and you're out" policy, though the moderators are very clique-y and don't give adequate (any) warning that you've done something wrong before striking, it's very much a popularity contest there. I don't believe that's the case here, nor should it be!

[Jetliner]

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Edited November 1, 2010 by Jetliner
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[David O]

Good morning John,

I see your point and while I agree, I've also been the recipient of someone's anger when I gave them negative rep with an explanation and my name. Typically, they will pm me and hurl a few insults. I have not given a negative point in awhile, but did so when we had members who cursed at other members, or called them names even after being told to cease and desist by the community.

Not everyone is willing to expose themselves to this level of aggressiveness, and even an disagreement can lead to hostile words w/o provocation-- all in the open. We witnessed that in the last 2-3 weeks, so essentially most folks are not interested in a verbal onslaught and so just throw rocks from behind a tree in hopes that one will knock sense into the one being hit. In your case, I'm not sure what happened, but this has been my experience.

David

[IrmaJean]

It was done to me once as well for no reason other than I'd written something which indicated that I liked another member. I figured it was anger that needed to be vented at someone and this person vented it at me. It was a little upsetting that I could raise someone's ire by saying something nice about someone, but what are you going to do? Maybe it was a needed release. I knew I hadn't done anything wrong, so I was able to let it go. I can't say what happened, John, but you can find out what post got the negative rep if you click on it. I was grateful for that because it was obviously unjustified in my case and I knew not to feel badly for saying anything hurtful.

[Jetliner]

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Edited November 1, 2010 by Jetliner
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[Endlessnight]

Hi. I am relatively new here but would like to give my viewpoint on this. I can understand why the reputation thing would be needed to weed out spammers, but I think that David's suggestion that we only allow points to be added and not deducted is a good one. As someone said, it is encouraging to some of us, especially when we are new, to see that someone has taken the time to add to our reputation which makes us feel welcome and know that someone thought what we had to say was worth hearing. I do think that the points should level off at a certain number though, once the person has enough points that he/she is no longer a newcomer and can post in all the forums. One last thought. A lot of us in here are obviously fragile when it comes to our feelings and so that would be another reason that I would cap the points at a decided number. Take care everyone and thank you for making me feel welcome here.

M.

[Mona Lisa]

Just a few questions: if the reputation point system is in place to weed out spammers, what purpose does it serve once a person is released from the "new member" box? By that point we know the person isn't a spammer. And why are they called "reputation points" if they have nothing to do with your reputation? And if they DO have something to do with your reputation, why the uproar about people getting negative points? Can't people have bad reputations as well as good ones?

This has never made sense to me. I don't care about my own rep points one way or another, but the whole issue strikes me as very odd.

ML

[malign]

Well, mostly it started as a hack of an existing reputation feature in the software. The computer program on which the forum is based was not created for us specifically; it's just a somewhat customized generic forum management system. That means that our options for features are limited to what the system is already capable of.

The intent of our use of the reputation system was to quarantine new posters, but without requiring administrative action to release them. Instead, any member who approved the person's introductory post effectively lifted the quarantine. The reputation continues to be visible because that's how that feature works in the existing software, and it seemed useful to allow reputation boosts.

The issue I have with lowering a person's reputation is that it causes the same problems as a "low reputation" does in real life: some people deserve the reputation they get, but others are the victims of gossip and whisper campaigns and have a difficult time surmounting those obstacles because people see their reputation before they see the person.

In my opinion (stated farther up in this thread), this forum ought not to be about popularity, low or high. Adding reputation should be about the specific post, not about the person, in my mind. When I give it, it's meant as encouragement. I don't see a purpose for giving someone discouragement. When some person acts outside of the purpose of the forum, for instance by insulting another member, that's something we need to address as a community, openly, or lacking that, by moderator action behind the scenes.

Another way of putting it is that if every member can act as a judge and impose a sanction, it's way too easy for this to degenerate into a free-for-all. I don't see that same danger with people giving each other a boost.

That's my own opinion. I will of course abide by the decision of the forum and its administration, whatever happens.

[malign]

Well, I've already come out against the practice, but ... when you click on the "scales of justice" icon, you get the option to either approve or disapprove of the post. Disapproval reduces the poster's reputation.

To the best of my knowledge, no decision process ever really began. So, we seem to be left with our own personal opinions, as we humans often are. :-)

[IrmaJean]

It's to the right of the post number in the thread.

[IntoxicatedFrog]

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Edited August 9, 2010 by IntoxicatedFrog
Farewell, opinion. You can't impress the sheeple.

[IrmaJean]

Hello, intoxicated frog. Has something happened with reputation points that has upset you?

Generally, they are used in a positive way, to add points. I would think only in very extreme cases would anyone subtract points. I always sign unless I am adding points for a newcomer. I admit that I enjoy receiving them, but I also like handing them out. On the receiving end, it does feel good to know that someone felt positively affected by my words. I enjoy feeling heard and understood as well, so seeing my points go up gives me a sense of connection...however brief...with another poster. It's encouraging and this feels good. In giving, I receive as well. I like others to know and feel that they are appreciated and that their words are meaningful and have value.

As for having a large amount of posts...well I guess I do have a lot. I like expressing myself and offering support to others. So I talk a lot on here. Hopefully not too much.

At any rate, frog, I'm sorry this topic seems to have upset you in some way. Would you like to talk more about it?

[flat_affect]

I think we have to realize that this forum is not the same as ones dealing with knitting patterns, car models or PC support. In those cases, reputation can be a valuable way to decide whether a poster's advice is worth following up on (I don't wanna blow up my PC my following "Registry Fix" advice from a guy with no rep).

BUT, we're all clueless here. every last one of us is on this forum because of some kind of personal pain. I don't post often, but I read a lot, and I see people putting themselves on the line, sharing very difficult stories with us just to try and help, or connect, or empathize. I don't think a rating system serves us well in this case, It's hard enough, Dog knows, to come up with an intelligent, rational answer to somebody's pain without worrying about popularity points, and I don't think you can see the rep system as anything other than popularity points. I'd rather see the moderators take charge of weeding out those few posters who are harmful, and keep reputations (if we need them at all here) as a positive feedback measure.

Edited July 3, 2010 by flat_affect
grammar

[IntoxicatedFrog]

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Edited August 9, 2010 by IntoxicatedFrog
Farewell, opinion. You can't impress the sheeple.

[IrmaJean]

Referring back to the beginning of the discussion in this thread might be informative as to your concerns, FromTheMoon. I'm not sure if we ever came to any clear conclusions about this, though...

Edited July 6, 2010 by IrmaJean