tobeistohope Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I see my therapist on Tuesday and we have plans to talk about it. He says that it (self-worth) will come in time. With exception to being stuck on this, I am doing well. Still in college, exercising regularly, quit smoking, have lost 24 pounds, have more energy. I have a phobia I need to work on and we have plans to do some systematic desensitization in the next several sessions. I just really need to figure out this self worth puzzle.:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Awesome job on quitting smoking and the weight loss! I'm in college too and am also loving it! Challenging, though...I hope therapy goes well. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobeistohope Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Thank you, IrmaJean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna- Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Tobe:About this:In fact, I'm not sure it is possible to love and value yourself until someone shows you how by loving and valuing you.I think this is where therapy can play a big role as a remedial influence. I remember when I first started therapy; no matter what I said, my therapist still accepted me. Before I started opening each area, I'd be convinced this would be the deal-breaker, he'd turn away - and he didn't. He was just always there and quite cool with whatever I said. That was tremendously healing. Someone accepts me as I am - perhaps that means I am acceptable! The positive regard I felt in the relationship was in itself healing, irrespective of what we actually spoke about. Friendships can help with this too. If someone wants to spend time with you, you can't be half bad. I do think we need some modelling before we can find it in ourselves and develop it. It's possible and it's never too late to learn to value yourself and see your intrinsic worth - but you may need someone to demonstrate it to you, to start you off and show you how.You may find some help in this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Amy, I didn't want to write here what I think about this issue, as I felt that the others would not agree and was afraid that it could be even a bit 'dangerous' to present this point of view. But as I see that you still struggle so much with this question of worth, I'm going to contribute to this debate. Maybe there might be something useful, at least in comments of others to this post.I start with a simpistic intro, maybe totaly useless, I don't know: Consider firstly how we assess the price of things. Imagine an auction sale. They sale something... for example a paintwork. You don't like it and would not pay for it. Somebody else likes it and offers lot of money to get it. So now; what's the worth of the painting? For you, not much, for the other, it's big. Or they sale ... socks of a popstar () that you don't like at all and you really don't care about his socks, while some fans give lots of money for it, because they're precious for them. I know this 'analogy' will provoque (at least at first sight) a disgust, as 'a man is far too different from a thing' - but I know this. I know that it's hard to compare, but... I made this comparison only for the purpose of this therad; my opinion can be also devoid of it and it still makes sence to me. This is it:The worth of anything, including people, is not 'a number that can be assessed to it/him/her'; it depends on the person who evaluates. The same person has many different values for many different people. So we cannot talk about 'your worth' or 'my worth', as anything like that, a single 'number', doesn't exist. And it seems to me that that's the problem of this discussion here. That you all try to talk about something that is only a theoretical concept. What does exist in reality, are many different worths of you (me/anybody). And what people are trying to tell you here, is that you need to learn to assess an appropriate worth to yourself - independent of the ones that other used to assess to you. I suppose that this 'theory' can devoid you of your constant feeling that "you don't have a worth as anybody hasn't given it to you", because now you see that all they have done to you was that they, in their eyes, didn't assess you the appropriate worth that you needed to feel (from your parents, at least). So the dammage they caused is that you grew up in a hostile emviromnment that is as such very very unfavourable for creating one's feeling of self-worth. But they weren't expected to 'give you' your worth. It's you who has to give it to yourself. I'm a good example of this: My mom has always loved me very much, I have always known she sees my worth as big, but I still can't see it as big myself. My therapist once (probably not only once ) told me that no matter what others think about me and how they evaluate me, I needed to like myslef, I need to evaluate myslef positively. I was quite upset with him, because I had told him that I didn't make this mistake - I didn't evaluate myself based on what others think, so why he told me not to do that!? Then I explained to him this 'theory' of mine about the worth depending uniquely on the one who evaluates and he seemed to agree. I wrote him that my 'problem' is that when I sometimes think about my value, I feel I have none for myself. I know that I have a worth for some other people. I know and I'm glad that it's so. But I can't find the feeling that I have a value also for myself. I think you have the same problem, but in much worse circumstances: You also know that many of those who had to feel your worth as big, did not :-(. But you have your children (and your therapist and probably others (in the past, you had your partners, ...)) who feel your worth as very big. You have us here, at least 'in the cyberspace' . So you're not harshly evaluated by most of the people that know you now. You can say to yourself: There are people for which my worth is big! And as we cannot expect that everybody will evaluate us as higly as those who love (or like) us, there's no reason to be sad that not everybody in the world assess your value as your children or we here do. But what you need is to learn slowly, in your therapy and maybe also here, to begin to feel that you have a big worth for yourself, in your eyes. That's what we all need. I know it's hard and I can't tell you how to achieve it. But I also know it's possible. Some members here showed me a good example ...How do you feel about it?L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ASchwartz Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Amy,LaLa and Malign and your therapist are right on target. You know why you can't wait for other people to show that they like you? The answer is that all of us look for confirmation that we are right when we do not like ourselves. I am sure that if you look at it carefully you will find that there are people who like you but you are overlooking them or dismissing them. You have worth. All of us do. Don't let what the way you were treated by your family define who you are and don't let other people, either. Do an assessment of all the good things about you. They are there but you dismiss them, too.Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobeistohope Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I don't think it is that there are not people who like me, I think that it is the fact that no one has ever really loved me. Not my parents or sibing. Not either husband, not the boyfriend. My children, of course love me a lot, but they are my children and are going to love me anyway. I just feel so strongly that I am missing something that other people who have experienced real love and care and nurture have. Oh well, I guess it will work itself out or it won't, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I see... Just one short comment now (I have to go...): If your parents would have loved you (Oh, my English! I only guess when using all these tenses... ), you'd surely say the same as you do now about your children: "But those are my parents, it's obvious that they would love me anyway". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Imagine a rock on the ground. A rock doesn't become a rock because it is recognized as a rock. It's always a rock whether anyone sees it or not. The love of others doesn't fill you with worth...you were always worthy. The love of others may indeed help you to see and recognize your worth, but it doesn't make you worthy. You have worth and always have. You just need to feel it and know it. I hope that makes more sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I like your comparison, IJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobeistohope Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 But, what if someone takes that rock, smooths it out and paints it real pretty? Do you think people will want that rock more than the others because someone has taken the time to develop it and nurture it? I think they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I wish I could have come up with something more poetic than a rock , but I do love symbolism.Nurturing and love is so very important, I couldn't agree more. I'm so sorry you were deprived of this. I am just hoping that you realize that your not being cared for and nurtured as a child doesn't reflect on your worthiness as a person. It reflects on those who failed to embrace and cherish you. You deserved that, ToBe. Everyone deserves that. I imagine being deprived of this has affected you deeply and has been very painful to you. But it hasn't made you any less valuable or worthy as a human being. You are valuable and worthy. I understand that not being taught how to value yourself has led you to not value yourself. The trick would be finding the inner essence of you for you. Once you feel that beauty from within, you will more likely attract others to you. I think that allowing your therapist to support and nurture you now could be very healing to you. Soak up his loving care and positive regard. Trying feeling your own love as it lights from within. Of course I am giving you methods that worked for me and you might need to experiment some to see what fits best for you. I used to particularly enjoy moments of silence with my former therapist. In feeling his loving presence and acceptance of me, I was able to find the path to discovering love and acceptance of myself. The potential is within you. I hope that therapy can help. Sending peaceful, loving energy your way today. Take gentle care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobeistohope Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I went to my therapist yesterday and I tried to do what you said, IrmaJean, and did my best to soak up all of his positive regard. I sat on the couch for the first time. I always sit at the table because I feel better with something in between us and there isn't so much space behind me there. But, I sat on the couch and he sat in his chair. I was actually more relaxed on the couch. I was able to get comfortable and it was a very good session. I left feeling happy to have been there and talked with him. He said that he thinks the things I am doing now, like exercising and losing weight and going to college is because I am beginning to value myself, even if I don't realize or feel it yet, which he is right, I don't. But, I will keep plugging on in therapy and hopefully, one day, I will walk in the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindamomof7 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Tobeishope, I think that is wonderful you are recognizing the changes that are happening to you. I recently mentioned this to Luna in another post but I think after 5 yrs of being in my own hell, I finally recognized all that I have been through, and what I have learned was really sitting in my sub/unconcious? And as you mentioned you will walk in the sun and you will do this because I think you are finally beginning to see and feel how it transfers into our consious and that is when we recognise it. It is like an ahh-haa moment and realizing that all the tools we are needing have really always been inside us just waiting to be used. I wish you lots of luck with your sessions and your ahh-haa moments that keep coming to you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Happy to hear about your session!! It seems a really good change that you finally decided to sit on the couch !! And I also agree with your therapist that your're living already differently, as if you've already had begin to value yourself. - It's an interesting idea to me - a bit surprising, but I felt from the 1st moment that "yeah; that makes perfectly sense"! I think that this is the way how to learn like and value yourself - you act as if you already started and, importantly, you change yourself (-have new habits, loose weight, ...) so that you'll be happy to see what you were (and are) able to do.(By the way; the fact that you allowed yourself to sit more comfortably remains me a little bit my decision not to hide (anytime) a wish to hug my T. Yesterday, in the end of my session, I aksed him for a hug again. And it was a good decision; I was happy that "I'm good to myself" . But it's funny that despite this, the 1st thing I wispered during the hug was: "Please, forgive me..." - I still had a need to apologize for asking him to hug me. But it sounds funny to me now and... I will probably not have this need anymore...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Linda, I'm happy to hear about your great experiences, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobeistohope Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I think you might be right about the tools being there, but just not knowing how to use them until they are more conscious, Linda. And, Lala, I'm so glad you are able to ask your T for a hug!. I would never consider that! I would probably even be very uncomforable shaking his hand! lol But, you are way ahead of me and I'm so happy you are getting what you need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 you are way ahead of me I wouldn't say that. We had several commun problems and situations in our therapies, we can find quite a lot of similarities, but... we are still quite different and that's why it's impossible to say who's "way ahead". Importantly, I don't share too much here about my sessions, so... from what you see you can have an idealistic view. It's OK, I just... don't want you to feel that you're somehow "behind with your therapy" (-I hope it's a good translation) as it's something that can't be "measured" by any means. Well, yes; I'm a bit wrong: It can be measured by the feeling of the patient, but... feelings, so naturally subjective, are so hard to compare! I have an impression that you're in a better situation, as you've been able to quit smoking, to loose weight, ... but me, I can't see, as far as the last year is concerned, any change in the aspects of my life I'd like to change except for one problem which I've mentioned very superficially in the Virginity forum and I don't want to discuss here (yes, I can be better to myself and I'm not anxious as I used to be - but this 2nd change happened already more then a year ago!). But this is only my impression, I know I can be wrong. Oh, such a long comment only on one simple and not key idea! Sorry . I feel good knowing that you feel good when I mention some positive apects of my therapy . I just really don't want you feel that "I'm way ahead and you're behind" as it represents for me your tendency to somehow deny your success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 It's great that you had such a positive session, ToBe. Yes, do come out in the sunlight. It's warm and bright out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobeistohope Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I just love to read your posts, Lala! Don't worry, I didn't really mean that I am behind somehow in my own therapy, just that I could never ask my therapist for a hug. The fear of refusal and rejection is to to bear. I am so proud of you for asking for what you need. And you got it! Wow! I think that is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Thank you ... And I'm glad you didn't mean it thatway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaLa Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think I could comment on this, too:I could never ask my therapist for a hug. The fear of refusal and rejection is to to bear. I asked mine after about half a year (after the wish appeared)! I was waiting for the time when I would feel able to bear his rejection. I was 95% sure he would refuse! I used to write him about the wish - sometimes with a comment like: "but, please, don't tell me if we can hug - I'm not prepared to hear your "NO"!" He was so ... I would maybe call him "a prankster" (I know, it's not a good point of view, but... it's so funny to me now that... I can't resist to call him so!), but seriously; it was wise: he didn't react on these topics from my letters, just waited me to ask him face-to-face! And he even (about 2-times) mentioned this wish - he said in a context: "...and your wondering if we could hug..." - but he never showed his opinion about it! But I'm glad it was like this. I think the hug has been... somehow "better" for me, when I felt that I could bear a refusal. I probably should post this in my thread about the hug , I'm sorry. But... I suppose you don't care .L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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