Hi all in sps forum

[CantGiveItAway]

The first step is determining whether you have sps or are genuinely small.

I think if someone didnt know their size, they shouldnt measure it and worry about the exact measurements. Your just placeing more importance on it, its not like your going to carry around a penis chart.

As far as my situation goes, I have average length but below average girth or thickness. As a result of this, I genuinely am small and so for me, the root of my problems is my cock

There are guys that would kill to have your size, and you say your crazy, you dont know what its like to be me so dont you think its alittle of amatter of perception there too. You could meet this girl where she accepted you and you were both totally in love and stayed together and you could have guys with bigger sizes envious of you and would give up there size to have what you had together.

I would have no issues dating or meeting women.

Maybe it would make you feel more secure at approaching women but it wouldnt gaurentee you haveing better or more meaningful relationships with them or make you immune to rejection, you would just feel more comfortable having sex with just any random girl.

not having this is a genuine sexual handicap.

How do you know what shes feeling emotionally. If you were really into her and she was really into you and you were both comfortable with each other, she could feel an amazing connection to you that just some other guy with whatever size dick couldnt just duplicate. I dont think most women are going to put the importence of a relationship down to less than an inch. If it was never an issue for you, it probably wouldnt bother most women you were with.

[samesame]

With CBT it is possible to convince ourselves that we are all lovely and wonderful human beings blah blah. Which is fine, untill we have sex and then the woman decides to let everyone know you are small, and the humiliation begins. Its no use then saying "oh those women are no good for you" or "they must have thier own issues" etc the secret is out, and the damage is non reversable.

So then, I suppose we are to use CBT to ignore the humiliation. "I dont care what you call me or think of me. Im wonderful lovely and special"

We are like the Emperor in the childrens story, we can convince ourselves we are wearing a fine coat, untill someone shouts we are naked.

Usint the height thing, you could use CBT to cure yourself of the hang up that 5'6" V's 6'6" is not an important issue, and you and society could be fine with it. But if you're a dwarf, you would use CBT and just end up living a lie.

[IrmaJean]

It's not about living a lie, ND. It's about being okay with who you are as you are. It's not a matter of not caring what others say either, I don't think. If you feel okay in who you are, having the approval of others won't make or break you. In the end, this is about how you feel about yourself.

[Guest ASchwartz]

ND,

It's not about living a lie, ND. It's about being okay with who you are

Irmajean put it perfectly and I can't think of a better way. Irmajean, thanks:)

Allan

[samesame]

OK Im not my penis, im a special person. Nothing matters, just be happy no matte what the situation, its just choosing to be happy.

I want to die rather than live like an idiot

[Nessie]

OK Im not my penis, im a special person. Nothing matters, just be happy no matte what the situation, its just choosing to be happy.

I want to die rather than live like an idiot

I don't know your history but here's an out-there idea....

Have you tried putting a dating ad on Craigslist or some similar place and just get it out right up front in the ad since you are so worried about it? ...just put it in the title in a light-hearted way and say that you are flat out small and are looking for someone that isn't shallow and doesn't care about crap like that. And list your positive attributes, interests, hobbies, etc. and see if someone bites based on that??

Or at least, I've thought about posting such a thing for myself.

I guess the difference might be that I'm gay and I wonder if men would be more OK with someone obviously thinking about the sexual aspect of a relationship up front. It might also be a magnet for other small guys, in which case I would be more comfortable being sexual with someone like that because it doesn't feel like a competition (or they could be as hung up about it as me and so we just end up having a terribly dysfunctional mess!!)

From my perspective, I honestly don't know if that would be a turn off for women or not.

On the one hand, it might be quirky enough to get some positive attention if you do it cleverly. you know, just keep it light-hearted and fun...and make it more about your positives.

....Or....I suppose it could come across as very weird and creepy, heh. In which case, it could make you feel worse if no one responds to the ad for that reason even though it could have absolutely nothing to do with them caring whether you might be small or not.

Anyone else care to comment on whether this is a terrible idea for samesame?

Regardless, I'm thinking of doing something like this for myself. I have nothing to lose, really.

[IrmaJean]

ND, I might not always know what to say to be helpful, but I care about your well-being. I hope that you feel better about yourself. I'm a hoping kind of person, can't help that. I hope that you choose to live.

[samesame]

Im 4x4, 47yrs old 12th year recluse, no friends, family, career, job, money, assets.

I have slept with around 50 to 60 women, most have been OK with my size to my knowledge, I've had good sex with many of them. Out of all those women, I know of 3 who have spilled the beans, one stood up in the middle of the pub and shouted come on show everyone what a little cock you have blah blah. There are probably women who have talked and I have not found out about it, there are probably women who just kept there mouth shut, and put up with it because they liked me for other reasons, there are probably women who just didnt realise anything was wrong at the time.

Im fully aware that this thing matters more to me than it does to women. women are less concerned with looks etc, for them its more about the person etc.

The problem is, every woman I sleep with, I become thier small penis story, I feel total shame when I show myself to a woman. As small men when we sleep with women, it is inveitable that they talk and our secret gets out. Then you have to deal with the humiliation from your freinds. I have walked out on three lives due to this, leading to being a recluse now.

Put your ad up, I guarantee that if your date is not small himself, he will be telling his friends about your size probably even before meeting you. You will be introduced to people as "ness with the small cock" as everyone will think you are fine with a small cock, you will be teased, humiliated. Put an ad in, and then if it gets sexual, then thats the time to tell your secret, and about how much it hurts you.

I have done this on a few occassions, it feels humiliating, most women react with "ahh poor you" some just laugh, usually with embarresment.

The only solution is to get a mind set where you tell yourself to "accept yourself, just be happy with whatever you have, and comes your way, even when publically or privately humiliated, just walk around like an idiot, oblivious to anything negative without a care in the world.

CBT may work for people who's problem is mental. Who's problem is a fault of wrong thinking. But if the cause is physical, like a small penis, then it can do very little, except allow you to con yourself. The trouble is, no amount of CBT can make a difference to other peoples thoughts or reactions to your size.

Good luck with your CBT, but I think the best you can hope for, is that you will accept your size cannot be changed and then to accept humiliation as a way of life, and be happy to recieve it. In other words be the village idiot, and be happy in that role.

There used to be a shrink pro who visited this board, who came out with some usefull stuff, but he owned up, and said really the best that we small men can do is come to terms with a compromised life, in the same way that people who lose limbs do, and this is what CBT may allow us to achieve. As smalls we have to eat shit and be happy.

[Fedup]

I don't know your history but here's an out-there idea....

Have you tried putting a dating ad on Craigslist or some similar place and just get it out right up front in the ad since you are so worried about it? ...just put it in the title in a light-hearted way and say that you are flat out small and are looking for someone that isn't shallow and doesn't care about crap like that. And list your positive attributes, interests, hobbies, etc. and see if someone bites based on that??

Or at least, I've thought about posting such a thing for myself.

I guess the difference might be that I'm gay and I wonder if men would be more OK with someone obviously thinking about the sexual aspect of a relationship up front. It might also be a magnet for other small guys, in which case I would be more comfortable being sexual with someone like that because it doesn't feel like a competition (or they could be as hung up about it as me and so we just end up having a terribly dysfunctional mess!!)

From my perspective, I honestly don't know if that would be a turn off for women or not.

On the one hand, it might be quirky enough to get some positive attention if you do it cleverly. you know, just keep it light-hearted and fun...and make it more about your positives.

....Or....I suppose it could come across as very weird and creepy, heh. In which case, it could make you feel worse if no one responds to the ad for that reason even though it could have absolutely nothing to do with them caring whether you might be small or not.

Anyone else care to comment on whether this is a terrible idea for samesame?

Regardless, I'm thinking of doing something like this for myself. I have nothing to lose, really.

I know a guy who does this and have posted about it before. I'm not sure he actually puts in the ad he is small but he has an online blog about his sex adventures and openly says he is small (between 4.5 and 5 I think). He travels a lot with his work and always puts up ads in craiglist asking to hang out in a fun way and he has no shortage of takers. His blog is popular and lots of women want to meet him. He does have a lot of charisma and can have a lot of fun.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

I had my first session with a sex therapist this week for SPS and he mentioned that he has worked with quite a few men on SPS using CBT....which is of course, why I'm seeing this particular therapist.

His estimate was that 75% of his patients have substantial improvement in outlook about their penis. Though he did add that the treatment does get painful near the middle...he didn't explain why. I guess I could see myself resisting...kind of like, I can see that it's SMALL...you can't try to talk me out of that because then I would be lying to myself!

Anyway, obviously too early to know what my own personal success will be with the treatment but I will report back as things progress or don't.

Weird thing, though...I did feel tremendously depressed after my first session. I wonder if I had been deflecting thoughts about SPS for the past month as much as possible...and now that I have to confront it, it's almost like a psychic truckload of badness hit me?

Hi Nessie,

it's probably good that you can see where the therapy might run into some resistance, because that way it might be easier at the time it happens to look at it from a different angle? I'm just guessing and trying to sound clever, though .

What I actually wanted to say is that it's not completely unusual that you felt depressed after your session. It can be different from what you expected, especially if you have other peoples stories in your head about how it was "such a relief to talk about it", but that doesn't happen for everybody. It clearly didn't happen for me and I've read somewhere that it can be like this when you start therapy, so it's not just me being a nutcase. (I found that reassuring, though in many ways I still consider it a valid working hypothesis.)

I hope you feel better about starting the therapy soon.

S.

[CantGiveItAway]

Your not choosing to be happy, your choosing to accept yourself. There are people who accept themselves that are not happy. Anyones whatever size penis doesnt have to be this great negative feature of themselves. You dont have to accept any humilation as someone who deserves to be humiliated, but you do have to accept that there will be people who are idiots and not care what there saying who will humiliate you. But why do you assume everyone you meet man or woman will want to humiliate you or look down on you for your size big or small. I think alot of this is in your head, you think theres this big conspiracy that people are just on the lookout for small penises so they can make fun of them. I just cant imagine the majority of 40, 50 year old men and women sitting around laughing it up over someones penis size.

And how do you know what their previous partners size was. They could actually prefer a smaller size and could be telling their friends what a great time they had with you. They could be reacting to AHH poor you because it was an issue for you not because of them. Anyway they reacted wouldnt have been enough for you, if they said its no big deal, you would say their lying, if they said ahh poor you, you wouldve said their pitying you.....now if they laughed you wouldve said, SEE I TOLD YOU I WAS RIGHT.

[Nessie]

Im fully aware that this thing matters more to me than it does to women. women are less concerned with looks etc, for them its more about the person etc.

The problem is, every woman I sleep with, I become thier small penis story, I feel total shame when I show myself to a woman. As small men when we sleep with women, it is inveitable that they talk and our secret gets out.

I kind of wonder. It seems like when I was outwardly insecure about my penis, it seemed like certain types of people would consistently pounce. I could be mistaken, but I kind of took it as them having their own insecurities and trying to make an easy target of someone just so they could try to feel better about themselves.

I'm experiencing this kind of stuff less these days now that I hang out with a different crowd. Usually what happens is some random person, TV ad, or sign or whatever will make some size related comment that is not directed or in relation to me....and I turn it around and internalize it and make it about me.

Then you have to deal with the humiliation from your freinds.

Huh, it kinda sounds like these people really aren't friends, then? I mean, I've told my three closest friends and the last person I dated and none of them ever humiliated me. In fact, they go out of their way to avoid triggering me.

So I guess it's at least possible friends can accept you and like you just fine for who you are?

As an aside, do you by chance live in a smaller community?

[IrmaJean]

Nessie, your self-awareness and insight will be helpful to you in therapy. I want to wish you well.

ND, there must be many other women who feel as I do about this. It is not something that would even cross my mind, but would be about getting to know the person as they are. That's what sharing is all about. Women who respect the act and the person they are with are not going to talk with others in a judgmental way. I understand that some of your experiences have been different. The past is not always destined to repeat itself.

[samesame]

Cant: You're right, I do take every comment about my size as negative, because it usually is humiliation or sympathy. I've even had positive comments about my lovemaking, and others have said that its no problem. As always there's a but with this thing, for me its as much about them just having the knowledge Im small that hurts, whether they are positive or negative, they know. The story always becomes common knowledge, and negative. I assume people will look down on me, because I have had 3 lives, where everyone in the social circle finds out, and I become the joke. There is no positive in a small penis.

As for self acceptance, that just sounds like total bull to me, I just dont get what it means. Whether they are pos or neg, or indifferent, they know and thats humiliation enough. Because of this problem I have also frequently expierenced erection difficulties with many women. Which is why the best way to deal with this is avoidance.

As I in the lowest 5% of men out there, it is 95% certain that I am that womans small man.

I realise my mindset does not allow for any scenario that allows me to ever be happy, despite making various efforts over the years. Thats why suicide seems so appealing.

Nes: It doesnt matter what peoples reasons are, what matters is they do it anyway. Even if they dont, how do your deal with the knowing that others know your problem? Has anyone ever blatanly humiliated you about it?

[Nessie]

I've even had positive comments about my lovemaking, and others have said that its no problem.

I get the same and it's hard to really own those types of comments because I don't want to believe it. So maybe us being smaller in some way leads us to be more creative and attentive lovers, which sounds like has been valued in our past relationships.

And at least in gay relationships, I have heard AND experienced some negative things about large penises and their owners. Either oral or anal sex can be difficult, impossible and/or unpleasant with penises over a certain size...and some men with large penises place TOO much value on it, thinking that they don't have to do anything in bed other than whip it out and let people service them...which is incredibly narcissistic and boring.

I'm sure this kind of stuff is a generalization...but I'm happy to believe it for now since it does make me feel somewhat better to know that I might be better in bed because I have a size that is very workable for oral sex and that I'm not lazy in bed because I don't feel like I can afford to be.

Nes: It doesnt matter what peoples reasons are, what matters is they do it anyway. Even if they dont, how do your deal with the knowing that others know your problem? Has anyone ever blatanly humiliated you about it?

Well, these friends are also men and they are also gay...so being with other men, I guess maybe they understand how much variety is out there. That and one of them even admitted having a lot of insecurity himself.

As for why I don't think I care....All four of them were incredibly surprised to hear how bad I have been beating myself up and how much it brings me down...because I apparently put out an amazingly self-confident and together vibe regardless of how I see myself. Maybe even borderline arrogant, which really caught me off guard! Which then brings me to....

I have been directly humiliated a few times (maybe 3 times) in the past, but when I look at the people doing it, they had a lot of very obvious problems themselves. I sort of wonder if they saw me as being arrogant and were jealous of my other successes in life and were more than happy to take a cheap shot.

Overall, it's really hard to say for sure what they were thinking but they were trying to be hurtful so I don't have any use for them, heheh.

As for the multitude of other times I've been humiliated, it's the random stuff we see in the society at large, not directed at anyone and it's just out there waiting for self-destructive people to to grab hold and run with it...the billboard that states "size matters" (but never states exactly how or why it matters so I warp it into penis size matters and so I'm useless)...the gay chatter "he had a huge dick" (which I then warp into, everybody loves big dicks so where does that leave me?)... And the list goes on and on.

So yes, I am my own worst enemy.

In the rare moment that I can make myself look at things objectively and without any warping, I can admit that there have been plenty of people that were happy to be with me even though I wasn't the largest penis they had ever had.

And when I beat myself down so much that I had to end those relationships because I was so sure they secretly thought I was small...and I couldn't deal with it anymore...I think there have invariably been a lot of tears and confusion on their part, I guess, because they probably truly wanted to be with me, didn't care about the size, and just generally had a hard time understanding why I was hell-bent on destroying myself over something that wasn't an issue in their minds.

So I dunno, I would be careful SameSame with assuming too much about how others perceive us. I know I do the same and it has caused all sorts of probably unnecessary grief in my life...but maybe getting over that is a start of reducing our anxiety about all of this.

[Nessie]

I'll also add something my therapist said...he's never seen a relationship worth having end because of a small penis. But he has seen plenty of relationships end because of WORRY about having a small penis.

I doubt he has seen every relationship but yet I think I can believe this.

As an aside, does anyone know if there's a similar thing to SPS for women, SBS (small breast syndrome)? I would imagine there must be otherwise why would breast augs. be as popular as they seem to be...

And I'm asking because I wonder if a man with a smaller penis would have better luck and more understanding with a woman with smaller breasts?

I suppose the difference might be that breasts aren't used for penetration...and breast augs. can be done whereas I'm not aware of penis augs. really working in the same way.

On the other hand, I have read that women who get breast augs are more than 6x likely to commit suicide after 20 years.

So maybe there's a lesson here...we're so sure we'd be happier with a larger penis but maybe that just isn't true? Maybe there's some other underlying flaw that has nothing to do with our penis...and if you don't fix that you're not going to find the happiness you seek?

[samesame]

Your're expierences seem to mirror my own, I know I have sabotaged some of my own relationships, even when they were going well. I have deliberately avoided some relationships with women just because I wanted them to continue thinking a I a great guy, rather than letting them find out I was small. These are the ones I regret the most, lack of courage has seen me lose some great women. But at least they dont know Im small.

I totally agree the problem is bigger for me than it is for most women, I have met, even the ones who made small jokes before I splept with them. I have slept with women who I know were a bad or dangerous choice for me, and have ignored women who were beautiful and interested but courage failed me.

My biggest problem is "shame" mainly put one me, by myself. I feel it as soon as a possible woman comes into my life, and it gets gradually worse, untill I sleep with them, then once they know (Dont matter what they think) I am usually crushed with shame. I just cannot seem to give myself a break and accept this thing, I hate it, actually hate it.

Is a small penis the reason for my depression? or would I have been depressed over something else? I dont know, probably, but my size became a problem from 13yrs old and is what my depression is focussed around.

[malign]

ND,

I know a lot of people who are ashamed, for various reasons. I used to get caught up in it, too, sometimes ...

What I'm wondering is, what purpose does shame serve? I mean, as you pointed out, shame is something we feel, rather than something other people do.

I would call what we feel when people make fun of us "embarrassment", and although shame underlies that, that's a different feeling. I mean, if people started taunting me about anything, I'd probably blush and get embarrassed, not because what they're saying is necessarily true, but because I can feel that they want me to hurt. It's the discomfort of being among people who think that's okay.

But shame, that's something we can each do alone. It's sort of a summation of all the things we think are "wrong" with us, and the belief that we should feel bad for those things.

But why, again? Will feeling bad about ourselves help make us better? Will it help guard us from the hurt from other people? Or does it hurt just as badly as anything they could do?

The thing is, shame as a way of coping with not being "good enough" is something that can be questioned; if found lacking, it can be unlearned.

[flander]

I dont think most women are going to put the importence of a relationship down to less than an inch.

it goes on the list of things she doesn't like about you that's thrown back into your face whenever she's mad at you. It also becomes a reason for her to cheat. Both of which can destroy a relationship.

as far as Craigslist goes, the only ads that I've seen where a preference was stated, the woman wanted someone 'well hung' or larger than average.

[samesame]

For me to change the feeling of shame centered around my penis, I have to change my thoughts. I get the logic of this, but on an emotional level I just cannot stand the thing, the way it looks, feels, and the abuse and shit life I've had up to now, are all focussed on this thing.

There is nothing positive to say about a small penis, no one in thier right mind would want a 4" penis. How can I not be ashamed of such a shameful thing. Con myself into thinking its normal?

[malign]

"No one in their right mind" would want disfiguring warts, or cancer, or lots of other things. They don't necessarily feel shame if they have them, though.

It's one thing to say "I wish this was different" and another to say "This makes me disgusting". And as you said, it's a matter of thought.

I hope you know I'm just trying to help, ND. There can be a separation between the fact, and the shame you feel about the fact. But it's going to have to be you who makes that separation.

[IrmaJean]

How can I not be ashamed of such a shameful thing. Con myself into thinking its normal?

It's "normal" for you. It's yours.

What about the rest of you, ND? Maybe shift the focus to your whole self. Why center everything on this one aspect of yourself? What of that great sense of humor of yours?

[flander]

On the other hand, I have read that women who get breast augs are more than 6x likely to commit suicide after 20 years.

That article doesn't mention if strippers were excluded from that study or not. A friend of mine used to work in those clubs for several years and he's said he had never met a dancer that didn't have mental problems.

[samesame]

Round and round it go's. At then end of the day the only cure is "get over it" or die.

[IrmaJean]

You and I are different people, ND. You need to find what fits best for you.

What is it, do you think, you need in order to feel better about this?