Suppression of anger = Depression *content warning*

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[David O]

existindeath,

You have to be pretty depressed (and homicidally inclined) to believe that the solution is to kill those around you who interfere with your life (or who you deem to be lowlifes).

You follow in a long line of eminent and distinguished "thinkers" – such as the late Nicolai Chowchesku who believed that those with congenital disorders should not have real lives, let them rot in cells. And then those who simply believe that there are certain ethnic groups who don't deserve to live (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Halkro, the Hutu/Tutsi war).

And you have the KKK, the “scientific racists,” David Duke, Strom Thurmond, Louis Farrakhan and others whose hatred of other groups taints their very humanity and that of those around them.

Then there were the radicals of 40-60 years ago who believed that in order to cleanse society of many of its ills, the mentally ill (you know, those with Depression, Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia, etc.) and homeless should be wiped out and their children sterilized so as to “permanently remove their stench” since they only consume resources and produce nothing.

I'm reminded of a famous poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller following the Nazi rise to power and the cleansing of the Jews, group after group, regarding German intellectuals who remained silent during the holocaust, watching with horror and yet remaining unmoved:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

One cannot hate others at this level without first hating themselves. And one cannot heal unless they starve their anger. You've reached a dangerous theshold here, please keep talking to us at the very least and do see someome quickly.

David

Edited October 20, 2009 by David O

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Existeindeath,

Wow, I didn't know you were such an optimist!

Joking aside, I do not share your dim view of the world or of anger.

If we follow the media the world appears to be this awful and violent place. In my opinion, this is a huge distortion. The distortion results from the media being convinced that the only way to make money is to sell bad news through reports of violence. In actuality, there are lots of wonderful things that go on in the world on a daily basis.

Human beings are complex and are driven by many types of motives. That is why people work hard to help and assist one another. When there are disasters, people respond with all the help they can provide. Perhaps the help is not perfect but the effort is made. People risk and even give their lives to rescue others. Etc, etc.

This is not to have a "polyana" view of the world but just a more balanced veiw. I find people to be very pleasant and sensitive. Are there other kinds of people? Yes. But, those people have been hurt and injured in many ways.

As to anger, it is not helpful or healthy to just release anger and rage in ways that are inappropriate. That causes blood pressure and cardio vascular problems. Rather, anger can be expressed quietly, using words expressed calmly and done only when something is really important.

No, I do not subscribe to the theory that unexpressed anger equals depression.

Allan

[mabear]

Hi,

I have to say I was struck by your point of view of human nature (a large portion anyway as you say). I subscribe to the theory that there is good in all people, sometimes they just can't see it and they are acting on what they have seen or been taught by others. I also subscribe to the theory that it is not my place to judge anyone based on anything. To judge someone as bad only increases our own depression and hatred of ourselves. We tend to see the wrong in others based on what we see wrong with ourselves. If we choose to judge someone as bad and feel they need to be removed from society have we not just become what we have judged them to be? What makes any one of us better than anyone else? I agree with David and Allan, there are many different types of people, and our anger does not justify negative actions.

[malign]

You know, it has been my experience that suppressed anger does result in me getting depressed.

I'm not depressed now, and I haven't had to kill anyone, though.

The point is, anger can be expressed in all sorts of ways. It's only when it's suppressed completely, or expressed "completely", that you run into problems. Maybe there's another way to deal with the self-centered lowlife dung than to eat it or kill it?

How about meeting those people with assertiveness: "Hey, that hurt. Don't do that." It may not change them, but you'll feel better. And you'll know whom to avoid in the future.

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[David O]

Good morning existindeath,

As I read thru your reponses, the careful intellectuality and cognitive sphere in which every response was "penned"-- it dawned on me that this seems to be more of an intellectual exercise as opposed to an authentic conversation. We could all spend endless hours exploring the existential phenomenology of life as you see, we could begin discussing Sartre, Edmund Husserl, Martin Heidegger, Camus, Okakura Kakuzo. Merleau-Ponty and others; however, this could well be fruitless since the debate would never cease as there is always a counter-argument or point to every point we would make. This may be why I liked Victor Frankl (Man's Search for Meaning), who in the midst of his concentration camp experience, was able to see beyond the daily traumas into the other side of humanity; thereby undoing much of thinking surrounding the human depravity your'e focusing on.

My sincerest hope is that this is not another academic debate/discussion, it is that there is something else, something that moves from your "head" and into your "heart"?? Something we could "grab a hold of" as opposed to this very amorphous "debate". This leads me to ask what is in your childhood or life that has resulted in these feelings. You are the common denominator in all of these inteactions and have drawn the conclusion that for the most part, "man" is "evil": I am the common denominator and despite my first 13-14 years of life on Earth under a most brutal and violent dictatorship (one where the news media could never hope to give justice to), have arrived at a vastly different conclusion.

Sincerely,

david

Edited October 21, 2009 by David O

[SweetSue]

"Suppression of anger = depression"

I have just read through this thread (again), if I am to be truthful, I wanted to reply a lot earlier than now, but something made me hold back. (dont know what, with me it could be anything, hey hum)

Suppression of anger, well I dont know if that can lead to depression really, or if sometimes that depression is just an excuse used for angry outbursts of inappropriate behaviour.

Yes there are a lot of angry people around, that do really evil minded things, heck I seem to have ran into my fair share throughout my life. It kinda angers me at what I was forced to endure, some things for years on end. and yes through my experiences I have become depressed (severly). My sis, well she had to deal with the same horrendous life as myself, whilst we were children and then into early adulthood. she was hurt, confussed, angry, depressed, the full works. But do you know, she was the gentlest person that I ever had the priviledge of knowing, she was full of nothing but consideration and compassion for others. Unfortunatley she couldnt cope with all that happened to us, she took her own life.

I am angry (mostly at myself) for my life experience to date, there are loads of people in this world, that do wrong to others. that dosnt make them evil, just there actions.

Personally,(for what its worth) my life has had lots of evil happen to me, by severly misguided individuals (seriously sick), and yes I often joke about getting a miniture nuclear bomb and inserting it where the sun dont shine, (for the odd select person) but that is only joking.

I would never seek my revenge on these people, I wouldnt dream of killing somebody, Who am I to judge another, just coz inside Im hurting..........

I try and be nice to others, it may not always show, but I do respect people, and there feelings.

I wish you well

take care

Jj

Edited October 22, 2009 by SweetSue
as per usual, i cant spell

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[David O]

Good morning existindeath,

Thanks so much for your honest answer. I read thru it carefully, as I do all your posts and saw this movement of talking in the 1st person at times and then switching to a distant "me but not me" at other times, as if an inner battle raged on quietly and being manifest in the "smoothness" and complexity of your writing style. Then it dawned on me that at one time I had a patient who was also a professor of law at UPenn. A brilliant man who spoke quietly and yet there was this complexity that did not allow him to see his "heart (for lack of a better term") in a way that permitted healing-- so he hated others who had wronged him or who he saw is evil or "bad" and soon did take matters into his own hands. The pain became a volcanic eruption that could have been circumvented if only......

Today you speak of "hurting... for some time... but will not show [my] emotions". If you were to show those emotions here, and my hope is that you will, what is it that is at the seat of your pain and hurt. Before you answer, can you shift some towards the pain and away from the analysis and processing of it, since these only serve as scaffolding to service the barrier that holds back what is being felt (but not felt)? Carl Jung always complained that his toughest clients were those who thought too much or intellectualized their emotions, believing that at times there is little to work with when logic is the primary avenue and the joy of life has been robbed by the need to not feel certain things.

Again, thanks for your response.

David

Edited October 23, 2009 by David O

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Existence,

I just want to try and clarify this theory about anger and depression. It is not so much that suppression of anger causes depression because anger and depression go together. Depressed people are very angry. Rather, its holding on to anger in the form of carrying around grudges, building injustice lists of how everyone hurt you (not. you, yourself, but everyone) and harboring thoughts and feelings of rage and of wanting revenge. That is all part of depression.

Does this help?

Allan

[SweetSue]

Hi ya Existindeath,

Thanx for your replly.

I dont think I got fully the understanding of this post, and well I apppologise, if I offended.

I seem to be missunderstanding a lot recently (the joys of being me, I guess). I think I can kinda get where your coming from wjth your thoughts, gonna think about it some more.

Im gonna go to DisneyLand, with my kids one day (when i eventually get them back),

It will cost a packet, but well worth it, :-)

All the best

Take care

Jj

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[SweetSue]

Hi ya, extistindeath,

"circle" there I said it :-),

I think you have cleared a little of this up for me, and explained it on terms I can understand, cheers !!!

As someone that is (obviously) depressed, you have pretty much summed up how I feel.

I guess we all have a past, and if that past isnt adequately dealt with at the time, then it does lead to sadness and in certain ways anger, which inevitabley leads on to depression. depression has a way of feeding itself, until one way or another it spirals out of control. Like it did with sis, and like it does with me in this the present day. We all cope (or try to) in different ways, some take it out on others, some thereself. and whilst some break, others try to battle there way through it.

still thinking about this though, think im missing something.....mmm

A very insightful thread/post, thankyou

take care

Jj

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[SweetSue]

Hi existindeath,

Oww, go on if you re type this, it saves me re reading this, (Im kinda lazy).

Yep, I still think Im missing something though, oh I dont know, Depression/anger thingy. it cant be that simple. (brain cell is snoreing at mo, when it decides to wake up, I may be able to work it out). The "suming" up I wrote, well it just seems too easy.

Hope your feeling a little better

take care

Jj

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Existenceindeath,

I read, with great interest, your analogy to the little child. What struck me or occurred to me is that it is awful to feel "rendered helpless." Helplessness is part and parcel of depression and can lead to aggression. A child is more likely to become aggressive because, in general, children have fewer inhibitions making it easier for them to strike or hit the other child. I still remember me, as a 4 year old, striking another little boy over the head with my pail. Oh, I had a "good" reason??? I didn't like him. Anyway, punishment was swift, as all of you could well imagine.

As adults, there is nothing worse than feeling ineffective and unable to influence events in your life. If that started as a child and continued then it is easy to explain depression.

The antidote to the poison called helplessness, is to learn ways, effective and helfpul ways of exerting influence. Instead of getting angry and rageful, I have seen people influence a group by lowering their voice and speaking slowly but firmly. I guess Dale Carnegie and that organization is very helpful in training people in how to "make friends and influence people." It is also called "assertiveness training."

What do you and others think??

Allan

[IrmaJean]

I had always thought that anger felt and left unexpressed would seethe within and then could be turned onto the self. Perhaps as a means of self-punishment for not having expressed it in the first place or as a means of expressing it in some manner. But this is not healthy and likely leads to even more self-loathing.

I think what Allan is talking about is finding a way to use a negative feeling in a positive manner to make an effective change. It's about taking control back, giving yourself the power to alter your own situation rather than blaming external forces for your dilemmas. Proactive versus reactive.

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath

[Guest existindeath]

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Edited November 7, 2009 by existindeath