It's been a while (trigger)

[Athena]

It's been two months since somebody last threatened my existence. That was the last time I cut. My kids found out about it by accident. I feel so bad they saw that. That's probably a huge disincentive for me. In fact I went to do it the other night but my kids were home and my eldest figured out what I might be doing as I locked myself in the bathroom. I had the razor blade in my hand but something stopped me. I think it was the idea that they might feel guilty. Anyway, I hesitated long enough that my 9 year old figured out how to pick the lock and get in. So I was relieved how things worked out.

Tonight I was calmer on the outside but boiling over on the inside. Existence threatened again. I thought the stupid threats were over. Man, i just want my FREEDOM, why do you torment me? I was just compelled to take action, to get some, any relief. I just quietly went upstairs like nothing was wrong and found a new discreet spot and cut away. I'm getting less stressed about this. Just trying to find the best, least noticeable spot that provides immediate relief. Well, it kind of did, but not like the other times. Maybe I'm developing some kind of immunity to it. Maybe it's the meds that I hate that I'll be going off soon because they make me feel dead.

What the hell, it won't kill me. My Mom has a 14 story high balcony an hour's drive away. THAT I would not survive. But I'm not there yet. Just thinking about it more often these days....

[Fox1990]

Isn't it weird we try to fix our pain by inflicting more pain?

Cutting doesn't actually kill you, you're right, but it does kill something inside of you each time. You said maybe you were becoming immune to it, maybe that's your sign to stop, ya know? You don't want to lose the ability to feel. After a while not only do you lose the physicality of it but the emotional too. You become.

I don't know if any of that helps or not, but there it is nontheless.

If you ever need someone to talk to about cutting or anything else please don't hesistate to PM me. I have a problem with SI as well.

-Fox

[Athena]

Sometimes I think that what's worse than killing yourself is not being able to. I have my own reasons (fear that it will be worse on the other side). I also get sad when I think of my kids without a mother. I also find it disheartening that people who know of my suicidal ideations just use my kids to guilt me out of it. Well, I'm glad they care about my kids but I do that guilt trip on my own, thank you very much. The point being, they never say "We want you around, we want to spend time with you, you're a good person, you deserve a chance to turn things around and have a wonderful life" or anything like that. So it becomes part of the problem.

[Fox1990]

Well i'll be that person then; Athena, you are a good person, you deserve a chance to turn things around and have a wonderful life!

You really do sweetheart. I mean it too, no human should feel like they are undeserved or feel they can't achieve something like happiness.

I know it feels like people are guilting you with your kids but they are what saves you! They are your blessing honey :-)

Pm me if you need!

-Fox

[malign]

It's also possible that the people around you don't feel like it would help you to say "We want you around, we want to spend time with you", because they don't think that would be enough to change your mind. It's surprising how many people undervalue their worth ...

The need to live has to come from inside you. But yes, if it helps, I too believe that you deserve a chance to turn things around and have a good life, and moreover, I believe you have the ability. Why? Because I believe we all do.

I got to that point, too, where I was thinking of myself as special. By that, I mean that I thought other people deserved to live, but that I didn't. That there were solutions to other people's problems, but not mine.

It's not true, though. Depression lies.

[Athena]

Thank you so much Fox, that brought tears to my eyes - it does help to hear those words. I know you are going through a lot of personal torment too, I've read some of your posts.

And yes, I think we are trying to kill part of ourselves. I want to kill off the angry pathetic victim. Her anger only causes people to recoil and disappear. I've even gone so far as to ask my therapist if he can wipe some of my memories out, or "kill off" certain parts of me - what a stupid thing to ask, he's trying to get them all out in the open - sometimes I think we are working at cross purposes. Except that we are both trying to pull out that authentic self that is buried deep within and has never seen the light of day for as long as I can remember.

[Fox1990]

You are most welcome! I'm glad i could say something of some importance to you :-)

I am but i find that it helps me (me, not everybody) to help someone else. I guess to take on somebody elses challenges is to take on mine in a way. Maybe that's why i want to be a Paramedic.

Haha, i don't know if that makes sense, but there it is nontheless.

Always here,

-Fox

[Athena]

Thank you too Mark, I just saw your post now. I'd find it easier to believe I could get out of this state if I had not been born in it. I heard about somebody getting rid of somebody's depression by asking them, "what did you enjoy doing in the past?" and then after she answered a few things, he said, "I recommend you go back to doing those things". She did and Voila! Depression disappeared. Unfortunately I would have answered "nothing" because nothing has truly ever got me excited, at least not something you can do frequently enough. I had some early success with therapy but that withered away, then he's been on holiday for three weeks. Then a threat that I thought had gone away came back yesterday and that just makes all my other problems seem bigger somehow too. Anyway, we've all got problems....

[LaLa]

Athena, I'm so sorry you feel worse again ... I've been suicidal for quite many years (but never made any attepmt), so I know how it feels... (At least I never cut myself; I know I'm not able to do it. When I needed to self-harm, I only used to beat myself or bite my hands - no blood or serious injury at all... )

I can see that you can't "go back to activities you used to enjoy". But you could, slowly, find some new that you would enjoy. And the people aroud you blaming you because of your suicidality and it's impact on your children: I think Mark had a very apposite exlpanation:

It's also possible that the people around you don't feel like it would help you to say "We want you around, we want to spend time with you", because they don't think that would be enough to change your mind. It's surprising how many people undervalue their worth ...

Moreover, they very probably suppose that YOU KNOW they think and feel that way and they think that as you're suicidal even so, it means that their opinion and feelings mean nothing to you - that's why they try to point at your children, as it's an obvious and natural "solution". I know you can't tell them what you would need to hear from them . What you can do is to understand why they don't say it: It's not that they don't care about you and don't like you. It's because they haven't been in this situation and can't cope; don't know how to help. We can't blame them, even though we see they're failing. But we can't do bad conclusions, either - that "they don't like you" or so. They are just helpless. We, in this community, understand your situation much better. And we know that it's important to let you know and even repeat how we feel about you: You are a good person, I'm happy to know you and to communicate with you and I wish you stop hurting soon and succeed in your therapy towards a happy life, self-love, and peace of mind.

(((Athena)))

Take care!

[Athena]

Thanks Lala,

Unfortunately I've just received even more bad news. I'm absolutely spinning. I told my lawyer she has to clarify what I think she said in the next 1 1/2 hours as I will be driving up to my Mom's very nice 14 story high condo with walk out balconies at about that time. My kids will not be with me.

I have never been in this state before and actually had very effective means at the same time. I'll probably just go out on the balcony and look down and contemplate life. Things aren't all in place yet for my kids. I'll check in here later.

[malign]

You're giving yourself an hour and a half to live?

What if she clarifies it in a way that gives you hope, only, two hours from now (say she's in court at the moment, or something)? You'd look pretty silly splatted on the ground for no reason ...

Athena, I hope you know me well enough that I don't joke about suicide.

We never know what the future holds, and only depression will tell you that things can't possibly get better. How does it know?

Don't do something rash. The thing about suicide is, you can always do it tomorrow.

[randomperson]

To both Fox and Athena.. I never admitted it but for a bit a tinkered with cutting.. more to see if I had the courage to commit suicide, if I could take the pain. But that was when I was feeling my worst. I am proud to say I did get past it. Please have hope. The world needs as many charming women as it can get

Too many single lonely men out there, battered and damaged emotionally that needs you!

I tease a bit.. but seriously you both are special. And trust me being a guy..sigh 32 year old virgin.. I tell you the truth women that care, truly care like you both do are needed in the world. You are very special.

[Athena]

I will have Internet access where I'm going. Taking my razor blade with me. Better than jumping off a balcony. I wish I had wings and could just fly off and keep going.....don't worry, the practical side will stop the irrational. Although I sooooo badly want to just end it, it would be disastrous for my kids right now. I need to find a way to let them know I love them even if I do something, and I need to find somebody to replace me, to do what I've been doing for them. I believe their old Nanny who they adore, is unemployed. And I need to make sure my half gets to them with somebody besides their Dad in control of it, so it is ONLY spent on them.

I have to go pick them up now and deliver them to their Dad and pretend that what he's proposing to do to me has had no impact. He never says what he's planning on doing to my face. It's always behind my back, always through lawyers. He doesn't have the balls to face me and tell me he's planning on screwing both me and my sweet girls. I'm boiling over!!!:mad:

[malign]

Well, just because he's planning it doesn't mean it will happen.

I understand that he's threatening your existence.

What I don't understand is how it helps to preempt him and threaten it yourself. Is it "you can't fire me, I quit"? Because, you know, he's not the boss.

The only way to even try to make sure that your girls are taken care of after you're gone is not to go.

The realization that you're angry right now is very important. It's the first step you need, in order to keep your head, and you know that's important, in this situation. I might even suggest you get someone else trustworthy to drop off the girls. The situation makes it too easy for you to do something you would regret.

[randomperson]

The first step is to try to make it through the day the best you can.

Do something you enjoy. Spend time with friends.

Maybe you shouldn't hide how you feel to your kids. I'm sure they sense something is wrong, maybe they can help? I don't know.. you know your situation more.

What has happened that is hurting you this bad?

[Athena]

I dropped the kids off as planned. My 6 year old was crying. She was upset that a teacher found her hitting my 9 year old with a stick. Then she wanted me to carry her. She wouldn't budge. At times like these, my back acts up, it was the last thing I wanted to do, but I had to go, so I just grabbed her, telling her she was killing me the whole way to the car, and threw her in the car. She said she hated me. I told her, great cause she doesn't ever have to see me again. Then I started singing the song they hate because they know what happens next. She said she didn't mean it. I said, "you can't take "HATE" back, it sticks there once you've said it". So yah, I kind of told them what I felt like doing. Now she'll think it's her fault. The older one knows it's not, she'll tell her who's fault it really is.

Anyway, that was a nice sendoff (NOT!) Drove for an hour in tears. Met my Mom at the nursing home. Probably looked like crap but I didn't say anything. Back at the condo now. Wandered outside. My brother was right there, 8 feet away. Just can't even contemplate it with him there, he'd end up in the hospital again. Peaceful night. Christmas lights way down there. The lake is not quite frozen. Came back in, he asked what I was doing. I spared him my thoughts. He'd probably arrange to have my kids taken away for even thinking it! I trust nobody. He's a lot like my ex. Lives off our Mom and has depended on her all his life - he's 65 now. At least I can thank him for showing me that people like him just don't change. Glad I didn't waste another 25 years of my life with a deadbeat!

So what's got me so worked up is things were progressing until the last two days of e-mails from my lawyer. I'm probably going to have to chase their Dad for his half of paying for kid's stuff for the next 16 years. I've been waiting for him to pay for half for the last 2 1/2 years and he hasn't paid a dime. I can't protect the kids' capital from him anymore. He'll blow it all in a year, then he'll probably quit his job, cause that's what he usually does after a couple of years in a real job. I guess that's not unlike what 90% of other divorced women have to go through. EXCEPT - they didn't have to support their exes prior to the divorce like I did. They never got threatened having to pay spousal support to a lazy ass university educated MAN. I've already lost my retirement - my savings, not a dime put in by him. Lost my home. Can't bring myself to unpack in the new place. I'm in no shape to work right now and my and my kids' therapy would all have to stop if I did go to work. And my chronic back pain which took a year to get "manageable" would come back in a flash.

So it appears I'm destined to continue my helliish life of pain and slavery - NOT THIS GIRL. I DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS. I'm exhausted!!!! Anyway, they obviously all think I'm superwoman and I can do EVERYTHING. I can even fly - "Cause when I'm a mess, I just put on my vest with an S on my chest, oh yes, I'm superwoman....." (Alicia Keys)

[randomperson]

I am sorry I was not on last night for you. I hope you are ok.

I have been where you are. Trying to cross the final Ts to justify in your own mind why it is not worth going on. Please think of the reasons why it is worth living. I know you don't feel like it at times but you have a family that dearly loves you.

It sounds like your kids are going through a hard time as well. I am sure they do not know what to say or how to handle everything. I remember when I was a kid going through a lot..I said things I did not mean to say.

To say I didn't mean it for a child shows great parenting on your part.. it is very difficult for anyone.. especially a child. It shows compassion, knowing when you are wrong, and love.

Sometimes words do not ease the pain and I know this is one of those times in your life. But they can offer comfort and support even in the toughest times. Please know you are loved. People do care.

Is there anyone close by that you trust that you can talk to?

I am sorry. Sorry that someone else is hurting you so badly. So many times I wonder how people can do this to others.

Please continue to hope with us. We are here to support each other.

For many of us right now it is hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

But you have to keep taking baby steps in the dark in faith, believing be it true or not that there is an end. We do it for our friends.. we do it for our family.. we do it for ourselves.

[Athena]

There's nobody I can talk to anymore, except here. My therapist comes back Monday. I'm glad I brought a bottle of wine up with me. I got by on a couple of glasses, "self accupuncture" using my usual method and a tranquilizer. Kept waking up all night but I was too groggy to care about anything so kept falling back to sleep OK. Actually got by without the last two until my head hit the pillow, then I just got overwhelmed again. Anyway, they did the trick.

Today I started thinking about how much worse off so many people on this site are, so I really should feel fortunate I actually have some savings to live off for a while.

Everybody who's been with me here these past few days - THANK YOU!!!! You are my life support system when my therapist is away. Nobody else understands. Even the hotline people don't have a clue. I will never call them again, it's just so pointless. I just hate so much being in this purgatory state - can't quite commit to living but neither to dying. Just stuck in limbo land. I feel like a phantom. I just put on a new mask every day so people might actually see me. Two people gave me a hug today, people I haven't seen in a while, not people I know all that well, but nice people - totally out of the blue. It was wonderful. I'm coming down a little from the craziness. Don't have to go out to the balcony tonight.

[malign]

That's really great news, Athena.

Personally, I had to go to "the balcony" (in my case, the top of a parking garage) a few times before the decision became final. But eventually, I concluded that there has to be a better way, a way to win instead of choosing how to lose.

Random people are great, aren't they? :-) It reminds me of LaLa's post about the site ... sometimes the kindness of strangers is what it takes to get us through ... Another surprise was that offering kindness is healing, in itself ...

Humanity is amazing, isn't it? At either extreme, for good or ill ... I find now that I enjoy its surprises too much to leave the show early. I hope some day that you see it that way, too.

[LaLa]

Athena, I'm so very glad that your're at least a bit better today... I've read this thread just now and I'm sorry you had such a hard time... Keep posting, we are here to listen...

Mark, I love your post ... (Not because you mentioned me there! )

[Athena]

Back at home now in my little townhouse that isn't quite home. I've been skiing over the weekend. Just for something to do. I committed to lessons every Saturday so I feel like I must go now but I don't much care either way. It was supposed to be mixed advanced but the two guys that showed up decided to join the men's group that was just beside us. I guess we intimidated them! Anyway Keven the ski instructor is cute. Three of us girls and him, so it's a small group.

This morning, I had a little chat with my brother, who has more problems than I do, except that he's always been able to count on my Mom. He's a walking pharmacy and is 450 pounds. I asked him what motivates him. He said "nothing - ever". That was my guess. I'm a little less pathetic. I used to be motivated by "survival" - present and future. Now I am simply motivated by survival, present tense. I make no plans for my future, I only plan for my kids' futures should something happen to me. I do not hang pictures on my walls, I don't know what city I would want to live in, even if my ex didn't demand that I stay put so he can have 50/50 access to the kids. I don't save for a house or retirement, I just live off my savings that I may or may not have anymore. I figure I'll just lose it again to another A--hole. After a year off, nothing has come to me as to my next step.

Today I just couldn't get into skiing. Felt the panic coming on as I was going down the hill, so just didn't enjoy it. So I ended up going home early. I'm just so exhausted. I'm tired of fighting. And I realize that who I am fighting for is my kids. Since it appears he is determined to screw them, I think I'll ask him what he'd like to take away from them - summer camps? swim lessons? ski lessons? choir? birthday parties? after school care? Perhaps I'll get his answer on tape and play it back for them. Of course, if I'm gone, there will be one less household to pay for and the kids will then have enough to keep up their activities. I'm really no good to them in this state. Their Dad will just con some other kind professional woman to somehow end up paying for him. They'll be one nice happy family without me!

Well, seems I can't get out of this state. I REALLY need to hear from my lawyer. Waiting for my fate to be decided is unbearable. And I have absolutely NO control. Nobody's listening. I just get threats that it could be soooo much worse. He could make me support him too for the next 16 years. So don't push too hard, or that's what you'll get. Blackmail. Because the deadbeat and his bully lawyers and the marital system just condone the "Deadbeat Squared Taunt":

My name is F.'N'. Leech

and I'm a deadbeat Dad

Living off my Wife

Was the best time I ever had.

Golfing through the week

and on the weekends too

Going out with my buddies

Why work when you don't have to?

refrain...

Yah, I'm a deadbeat Daaad

and these ain't no deadbeat blues

What's the point of working

When threats and force will do?

Oh yah, I'm a nasty guy

so I've been shown the door

My wife's worked herself half to death

Ain't much good to me anymore

I ain't no Stay-at-home-Dad,

And I got me a fine degree,

But the system says I'm a loser

So she's gotta support me.

refrain...

Yah, I'm a deadbeat Daaad

and these ain't no deadbeat blues

What's the point of working

When threats and force will do?

Yah, I'm a deadbeat Dad, a deadbeat Dad, a deadbeat Dad "woohoo", I'm a deadbeat Dad, a deadbeat Dad, a deadbeat Dad "Oh Yah", I'm a deadbeat Dad, a DEADBEAT SQUARED........ Bite me!

That's just an excerpt, but you get the point. It's actually a pretty cool bluesy tune, maybe I'll hire some mean looking guy singer to record it and I'll put it on U-tube when this is all over.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Athena,

I have read the line of recent posts you have put up in this forum and want to clarify something with you. You seem to have the false idea that, for the sake of your kids, you can be replaced and that would make suicide OK. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your suicide would be permanently devastating for them. In fact, they would wonder what they did wrong to make mommy disappear. A mom cannot be replaced.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but how can you be made to support your husband for the rest of his life?? I've never heard of that. Could you clarify?

You said that no one will listen. But, we are listening and very intensely. We care about you, want you to live, want you to get enjoyment from your life. Your kids want that for you too.

Please remind me, are you in psychotherapy and are you on anti depressant medications?

You and your kids deserve every chance in the world.

Allan

[Athena]

Hi Athena,

I have read the line of recent posts you have put up in this forum and want to clarify something with you. You seem to have the false idea that, for the sake of your kids, you can be replaced and that would make suicide OK. Nothing could be further from the truth. Your suicide would be permanently devastating for them. In fact, they would wonder what they did wrong to make mommy disappear. A mom cannot be replaced.

It is devastating to them living with me in my present state of mind.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but how can you be made to support your husband for the rest of his life?? I've never heard of that. Could you clarify?

I have asked for clarification from my lawyer should we now proceed to court as my ex keeps threatening to. Originally, the mediator said I'd owe him half my income because at the time of separation and for five years prior he was running his own money losing business, whereas I was working (albeit functioning at about 30%, so I would have eventually got fired). Since I am no longer working and the estimate is that I will be in therapy 4x/week (daytime only available) for potentially the next 6 years, and my employer is determined to screw me out of my disability income, leaving me to live off whatever savings I end up with after this mess is over, then perhaps the table has turned. I have asked for an update based on today's reality.

You said that no one will listen. But, we are listening and very intensely. We care about you, want you to live, want you to get enjoyment from your life. Your kids want that for you too.

Everybody here listening and offering their support helps a lot. My kids, until finances are secured for them will also keep me alive. So it is a race between Psychotherapy working and me replacing myself (or the kids being taken away from me as has been threatened, in which case things would proceed a little quicker).

Please remind me, are you in psychotherapy and are you on anti depressant medications?

I saw my psychotherapist today (first time in 3 weeks). I was going to take some Lorazepam prior to the appointment because my heart was racing, I was so wound up, but I didn't because I thought he might as well see me at my worst. So he got a pretty good picture of where I'm at.

Re: Antidepressants - I ran out of the Escitalopram. I called my GP for an appointment/refill? but he didn't call back. It doesn't much matter. They didn't stop the cutting or the rage anyway, made me even more hopelessly depressed, caused me to gain 10 pounds and crave junk and want to stay in bed. All negative, no positives.

You and your kids deserve every chance in the world.

Thank you. Yes we do, I just wish my ex and his bully lawyers (his plus the biased mediator who he won't let me fire or he'll take me to court - kind of proves my point that she works for HIM!) would see it that way.

[randomperson]

Athena, how are you?

I know you have had a rough few weeks.

Last few posts it sounded like you were feeling a bit better.

[Athena]

Athena, how are you?

I know you have had a rough few weeks.

Last few posts it sounded like you were feeling a bit better.

Yes, I am feeling a little better, thank you. Couldn't handle the withdrawal from antidepressants, therapist on holiday and more threats from my ex all at the same time. Withdrawal is gone now and therapist is back. The threats continue but I seem to be better able to handle them...