Why are you here?

[Loneone]

Ha ha. Sorry, but I have never been one of those. I wouldn't be silent or lie still at all, but I was only trying to please him and letting my own pleasure fall to the wayside. I just started being more honest. I've always been the type to let a man know where to touch, but not in a bossy way. Sometimes I just need something a little different. As I stated above, there are different moods to sex, and being bent over something isn't always pleasurable for me. There are some nights that slow is great. There are other nights when faster is better. Now, we concentrate on making the experience more pleasurable for both of us. I do give more positive feedback to him (by telling him it was great afterwards), so that he knows as well. I had completely missed when all that was going on that men as well as women need to be told they are loved, attractive, and desired. Now that his confidence is up, things have been way better both in and out of the bedroom.

[Loneone]

Sorry to hear that, Irma Jean. I don't know if you have tried it, but it may actually help. It concentrates more on areas other than the clitoris (and discourages touching at all, as it's a hot zone). It's all about slowing everything down and taking the pressure off of performance for a man and a woman. I didn't think I would get anything from it, but I have been pleasantly surprised to find out that I enjoy it quite a bit. For a woman, it is about opening up to receive energy, and it teaches a man to be less objective and enjoy and find out how to please just one woman by paying attention to the subtle energy involved.

[Mardi Gras]

...

But no losers were whispering tales of evil to me, just friends trying to look out for my best interests...............maybe they were right.

If you say they had no malicious intent, then very well I believe you.

Hard to believe they were right though...based on the success of your marriage and family and all. Seems like you and your wife are a good match.

[Loneone]

I would tend to agree with you. There was not a lot of background given except what is stated here and the other thread, but for a woman to keep reassuring you after all that time and accept your refusal to be intimate, she must love you very much. You mentioned that she still thinks it is all warm and fuzzy, but you don't even hold hands anymore, so I am not sure that is the case. I feel like you are pushing her farther and farther away. You had 18 fairly successful years of intimacy, children, and life, so why the sudden cut-off? Also, if you were incredibly bothered by her past (which does not sound bad), then why did you continue to date her, marry her, and have children? Has this been festering this entire time? You are obviously both suffering over this. Do you ever just want to reconcile?

[gone]

I would tend to agree with you. There was not a lot of background given except what is stated here and the other thread, but for a woman to keep reassuring you after all that time and accept your refusal to be intimate, she must love you very much. You mentioned that she still thinks it is all warm and fuzzy, but you don't even hold hands anymore, so I am not sure that is the case. I feel like you are pushing her farther and farther away. You had 18 fairly successful years of intimacy, children, and life, so why the sudden cut-off? Also, if you were incredibly bothered by her past (which does not sound bad), then why did you continue to date her, marry her, and have children? Has this been festering this entire time? You are obviously both suffering over this. Do you ever just want to reconcile?

I have the normal amount of jelousy with her former lovers. I can accept the fact she had slept with other guys. The only reason I'm incredibly bothered about her past is not the fact she slept with well hung guys, it's the fact she had great, head blowing orgasms with them (or so she had told her friends), and hasn't even tried with me. I kept getting a free pass from her, right up to the last time we fooled around.

I know women don't orgasm every time. I thought with some love, attention and preserverance I'd join the ranks of men she'd had a moaning, thrashing orgasm with. It never happened, it never will. I'll go to my grave without knowing what it's like to give her or any other woman an orgasm.

It took years for hopeful, naieve me to figure out I just didn't have the size to make it happen. I really bought into that sh*t that size doesn't matter. Size ruined my life. There's just no turn on, visually or phyisically with a small penis. I find I really do have a certain sense of lothing and hatred for my genitals now that I'd never had before in my life. I really don't like who I am, sexually. Hell, if I was a woman I wouldn't expect an orgasm out of me either.

And it's not like she's trying to drag me off to bed and I kep refusing her. If she's upset at all with our years of celibacy, she does a remarkable job of hiding it.

I started into our marriage with high hopes, and for the first 10 years or so was enthusiasticly making love all the time. Do I still love her? In a way, yes. Does she still love me? After a fashion, sure. But it's a very different type of caring we have now. Not better, just different.

John

[IrmaJean]

There's just no turn on' date=' visually or phyisically with a small penis.[/quote']

The turn on would be in who it belonged to, and the sharing of thus. It is with familiarity and recognition, not judgment or measurements.

[CantGiveItAway]

But it's a very different type of caring we have now. Not better, just different.

But that doesnt mean it was a result from having the size that you have. Shouldnt it be about how you feel for each other, not it trying to out perform some other person.

[flander]

Ha ha. Sorry, but I have never been one of those. I wouldn't be silent or lie still at all, but I was only trying to please him and letting my own pleasure fall to the wayside. I just started being more honest. I've always been the type to let a man know where to touch, but not in a bossy way.

I would have preferred that^^^

What I wrote has been the majority of my experience and the rest not much better from what I can remember. Of course, it also sucks to find out "the best sex we ever had" was while I was asleep.

[gone]

The turn on would be in who it belonged to, and the sharing of thus. It is with familiarity and recognition, not judgment or measurements.

Thanks for your reply. I really think your statement applies more towards the emotional aspect of love vs. sheer physical pleasure. One can be very sexually stimulated by someone and have a great time physically without caring a lot about them emotionally. I'd be willing to bet there are folks out there that have had the best physical sex of their lives with a stranger they just met at a bar or party with no familiarity involved at all.

I also believe one can love someone deeply, but just can't overcome physical shortcomings.

I firmly believe I'm the best sex my wife has ever had emotionally. She had to have really loved me to put up with some of my typical male actions.

I'm just the worst she's ever had physically. She's fine with me being the biggest compromise she's ever made sexually. I'm not.

But that doesnt mean it was a result from having the size that you have. Shouldnt it be about how you feel for each other, not it trying to out perform some other person.

CGIA, you're right. I wish it wasn't a competition. But when I'm in last place on the satisfaction list that's what it is.

Doesn't every man want to be his wifes 'white knight'. For her to admire him. I cared deeply about what she thought about me. I wanted to be her best in every important area.

I'm a guy, an average man. Sex is a major part of my life. It was important to me that I measure up (no pun towards size intended) with the other guys she's slept with. If she would have just let me, I think I could have really pleased her.

But she just didn't have the faith to let me even try. Like I said before, if she reined in her expectations, she never had any disappointments.

Instead of focusing on herself, she turned all her attention on me. I became very uncomfortable with this....very self consious.

Imagine year after year someone you love gives you wonderful, perfect gifts. But you're not allowed to give them even one in return. Time after time they have the perfect thing for you, but absolutely refuse anything in return.

You will never know the joy of giving, of watching them accept your gift and totally enjoy it. Everytime you bring up the fact that the giving and receiving is pretty lopsided respectivly, she just says she's ok, she's fine, she's enjoying giving to you. But if you're like me you grow uncomfortable always taking and never even being given the chance to give back.

Think about it........and than add the fact you know she's accepted some pretty big gifts from other guys in the past and throughly enjoyed them.

John

[IrmaJean]

One can be very sexually stimulated by someone and have a great time physically without caring a lot about them emotionally.

Wouldn't this "cheapen" the act' date=' though? Granted I'm an idealist in many respects, but the emotional caring is what creates the meaning, and solidifies the deep, loving bond. I think of sex as being sacred and something that commands respect. This description hasn't been my personal experience, though I also respect that everyone is different. Not valuing the act might make it easier to look at it with judgment, though.

I also believe one can love someone deeply' date=' but just can't overcome physical shortcomings.[/quote']

I might consider myself to have a "physical shortcoming" since I am unable to experience orgasm. I don't think of it as something I have to overcome. I'm the very same person I was before this happened.

I'd be willing to bet there are folks out there that have had the best physical sex of their lives with a stranger they just met at a bar or party with no familiarity involved at all.

What need would this kind of behavior be fulfilling' date=' though? Certainly this wouldn't fulfill a need to be loved and accepted.

What steps can you take to come to accept yourself as you are?

Doesn't every man want to be his wifes 'white knight'. For her to admire him. I cared deeply about what she thought about me. I wanted to be her best in every important area.

Important areas to her or important areas to you? Why the need to "be best" rather than to simply "be?" It could be that she admires his being true to himself.

It was important to me that I measure up (no pun towards size intended) with the other guys she's slept with.

Why was it so important?

I think it would benefit both of you to openly communicate about this. Express your feelings to her about wanting to give. Also know that in allowing her to give to you, you also give to her.

Have you tried couple's therapy, John?

Take care.

[gone]

Irmajean, I gave a complete reply to your post, but the site isn't letting me log on properly. I lost 6 or 7 paragraphs. I will retype all I had to say when I figure out why I'm being kicked off and redirected.

John

[IrmaJean]

Irmajean, I gave a complete reply to your post, but the site isn't letting me log on properly. I lost 6 or 7 paragraphs. I will retype all I had to say when I figure out why I'm being kicked off and redirected.

John

This happens to me often, too. It can be frustrating. You will get logged out after a certain amount of time. I write slowly so it happens almost every time I write anything lengthy. The trick to avoiding such aggravation is to copy what you write first or to write it first in another application and then copy and paste here.

Sorry that happened to you, John.

[SweetSue]

Irmajean, I gave a complete reply to your post, but the site isn't letting me log on properly. I lost 6 or 7 paragraphs. I will retype all I had to say when I figure out why I'm being kicked off and redirected.

John

This happens to me a lot too - its a tad infuriating at times :eek:

What Ive found helps is as your typing your post to click on preview post, every couple of paragraphs, it stops you getting logged out, whilst typing.

That is ofcourse - when I actually remember to do that, which usually I do right after, Ive been logged out !!!!

Hope your day is kind to you

Take care

[gone]

I ckick the post button. It tells me I'm not logged on. I log on. It says thanks for logging on, click this bar if I'm not automaticly redirected. When I come back to the thread page it doesn't show I've logged on at all.

Then, I'f I click the reply button it shows me logged on. If I type too long, it times out. But I lose all I've typed going through the log in dance again.

I think it timed out on me yesterday. I talk slooowly, but I type even worse. I'd answered each of IrmaJeans sentances with a paragraph and had given a lot of thought to each.

Thanks for the tip SweetSue, I'm going to make a habit of hitting the preview post button to keep it from timing out.

Ya'll are always a big help!

John

[Notdoneyet]

It was very helpful for me to find I'm not the only person in this situation, too. I came here to find differing opinions, logic patterns that took a different path then my own, and to express myself in a place safe from judgement or ridicule.

Except...we're all in the same boat. Stuck in the same IF and THEN sequences that leads us to FML because I've got a small penis. It's the blind leading the blind, so to speak.

I'm going to be bluntly honest and say that there are essentially two types of people on this forum. The guys whining about their small dicks and the people that check up on the board to commiserate. Then a few exceptions, like bellini, or Dr. Schwarz.

Are we ever actually going to do anything about this? For Christ's sake, I almost killed myself once because of how horrible it made me feel, and it's no way to live. Every time I log on and read the new posts there's at least 1 or 2 people viewing, sometimes as much as 25. People just come here, read, and leave. There's a lot of people that share our feelings that never post a god damn word. Those that do post are either crying or saying "there, there..." to somebody else.

Why don't we each go out and try something to change it? Then we report back and see what works...what doesn't.

Somebody with the time and money needs to take the scary step towards seeing a sex therapist. I can't do it right now, but I will later if I need to.

I'm reading a book called "Sexual Anorexia: Overcoming Sexual Self-Hatred" by Dr. Patrick Carnes. He wrote the first books on Sexual Addiction in the 80's. Ironically, when he described the sex addict in the book I'm reading now, I realize I've been there, too. It's a 12-step program...like AA. Fortunately this book makes no reference to God, only a promise to yourself to improve your life. I'm weary of the 12 step program, but when I read his description of the Sexual Anorexic, what drives them, what they feel...it's really terrifying how accurate it is.

In the real world most help-groups that meet are goal oriented towards achieving freedom from whatever it is that plagues the members. Alcoholism, Depression, an Eating Disorder, Smoking... This online group has stagnated into a group of self-pitying animals, trapped in a cage they built around themselves, myself included.

We need to get out of this.

Does everybody recognize that there are men in the bottom 10% of size that don't have SPS? Men that lead normal, successful lives, are happily married (or happy bachelors). That's what I want to be.

Logged on to try to post something encouraging.

However, I guess I have nothing to say since finding out recently that my wife has been having an ongoing affair with her step brother for YEARS.

I guess size wasn't the only thing she could lie about.

[flander]

I feel bad for you and her parents.

[gone]

Wouldn't this "cheapen" the act, though? Granted I'm an idealist in many respects, but the emotional caring is what creates the meaning, and solidifies the deep, loving bond. I think of sex as being sacred and something that commands respect. This description hasn't been my personal experience, though I also respect that everyone is different. Not valuing the act might make it easier to look at it with judgment, though.

It just makes it for physical release. Many men and women masturbate to orgasm with no partner present at all. I tend to think there is a difference between emotional sexual pleasure and physical sexual pleasure. I'm a case in point.

A guy is very easily pleased physically. I don't want to get too graphic, but I can please myself in the shower in 5 minutes. The reason she was he best sex of my life was the emotional part of the experience.

I please her more emotionaly than any other guy, but her former lovers pleased her much more physically than I ever will.

I might consider myself to have a "physical shortcoming" since I am unable to experience orgasm. I don't think of it as something I have to overcome. I'm the very same person I was before this happened.

My physical shortcoming is my size. At this stage in my life, it's something I'll never overcome.

What need would this kind of behavior be fulfilling, though? Certainly this wouldn't fulfill a need to be loved and accepted.

It might raise your self esteem. Many women want guys chasing after them, wanting them, choosing them first over others. A lot of player guys want to be the local stud. Taking a different woman home every week. Strutting into a party and having the ladies whisper to each other, He's certainly got plenty of equipment and knows how to use it.

What steps can you take to come to accept yourself as you are?

Quit having sex. Now, if only I could dump the constant want for sex, I'd be great. In a way, I'm glad I'm an old fart without much going for me. If I was 'hit on' by an attractive young lady (say.....35) I really don't know if I could resist at this point. And if you knew me, you'd be shocked I thought that.....

Important areas to her or important areas to you? Why the need to "be best" rather than to simply "be?" It could be that she admires his being true to himself.

This is something I think women will never understand. I can deal with the fact she's had sex with other guys. But it shreads my mind to think she got her maximum pleasure from another mans penis. Damn it! I'm her husband. I care about her, I'd have taken a bullet for her. I should be pleasuring her more than a 'F'ing one night stand. But the fact is there's a guy walking around out there that possesses the penis that she 'peaked' with. It's not mine.

I'm here. I married her. I've had kids with her and raised them. I've always been here for her, never hit her, always respected and defended her.

And someone else in an 8 hour sleepover holds the title of Best sex of her life.

I get more than annoyed everytime I think about this.

Why was it so important?

I think it would benefit both of you to openly communicate about this. Express your feelings to her about wanting to give. Also know that in allowing her to give to you, you also give to her.

Have you tried couple's therapy, John?

Take care.

I know, I know. She derived a large amount of pleasure in giving to me. And at first I (very,very) happily accepted. Buy like I said I grew more and more uncomfortable with the...well mind blowing sex I was having with no demands on her part.

I went to therapy 4 or 5 times. When the therapist wanted her to start coming I quit. She stated she wanted to go. I gave three conditions and she dropped the whole thing. 5 years later, here we are.

John

[IrmaJean]

It might raise your self esteem. Many women want guys chasing after them, wanting them, choosing them first over others. A lot of player guys want to be the local stud. Taking a different woman home every week. Strutting into a party and having the ladies whisper to each other, He's certainly got plenty of equipment and knows how to use it.

Actually, I think this kind of behavior is representative of low self-esteem. When you derive your self-esteem from external sources such as this, it may feel good for a while, but it doesn't truly come from within. When this is the case, the well will eventually run dry...Eventually you have to answer to yourself and the good feelings you have about yourself need to come internally. I'm still working on this some myself.

Quit having sex. Now' date=' if only I could dump the constant want for sex, I'd be great. In a way, I'm glad I'm an old fart without much going for me. If I was 'hit on' by an attractive young lady (say.....35) I really don't know if I could resist at this point. And if you knew me, you'd be shocked I thought that.....[/quote']

You mentioned before the physical release. Is this what you are needing? What about your need for emotional connection?

This is something I think women will never understand. I can deal with the fact she's had sex with other guys. But it shreads my mind to think she got her maximum pleasure from another mans penis. Damn it! I'm her husband. I care about her' date=' I'd have taken a bullet for her. I should be pleasuring her more than a 'F'ing one night stand. But the fact is there's a guy walking around out there that possesses the penis that she 'peaked' with. It's not mine.[/quote']

Could it be that the "why" of this has more to do with how you feel about yourself? Why the need to prove yourself? She's a life partner and you are deserving of her love. She chose to be with you because she loves you.

I went to therapy 4 or 5 times. When the therapist wanted her to start coming I quit. She stated she wanted to go. I gave three conditions and she dropped the whole thing. 5 years later' date=' here we are.

John[/quote']

Why didn't you want her to go? Communication is so very important. Maybe you might reconsider?

I also got timed out while writing this response. Fortunately, I had hit "preview" and copied first. As to get logged out after you log in, this could possibly be a browser issue. That has happened to me in the past when I use AOL for this site.

Take care.

[gone]

Actually, I think this kind of behavior is representative of low self-esteem. When you derive your self-esteem from external sources such as this, it may feel good for a while, but it doesn't truly come from within. When this is the case, the well will eventually run dry...Eventually you have to answer to yourself and the good feelings you have about yourself need to come internally. I'm still working on this some myself.

You could be right, I really can't debate this with any experience. Frankly, honestly I feel this cheapens the act too. I have a hard time getting my head wrapped around the concept of "It's important that I be able to have sex at anytime I choose, vrs. Hey, all those past lovers aren't that important. What I did before marriage doesn't count." This applies to men and women alike.

I've mused on this awhile, but it still just doesn't make any sense to me.

You mentioned before the physical release. Is this what you are needing? What about your need for emotional connection?

I've been taking care of my own release for 5 years. Do I miss real sex? Yeah. But I still don't miss it quite as much as my level of uncomfortableness at going back to having sex on her terms. I'll be honest with you. It's been so long since I've been emotionally connected to her I can't remember what that closeness felt like. Every day that goes by, I can look at us with a little more cold, clinicly detached impartiality. When I use my logic and not my emotions I realise our marriage is going through it death throws right now. There's no fire, no burning like in the beginning. Its a flickering, dying litle ember.

Way back when, I had a very hard time sleeping alone when she was at a meeting or visiting her mom and dad. Now I spend more time sleeping in a different room than I sleep in our own bed.

Could it be that the "why" of this has more to do with how you feel about yourself? Why the need to prove yourself? She's a life partner and you are deserving of her love. She chose to be with you because she loves you.

Like I said, this is something a man could understand faster than a woman. Sex is a major part of my make up, my life. Sex is probably a minor part of hers. How I stand in her eyes sexually is extremely important to me.

Yes, she did love me deeply when we first married. She chose me for a number of reasons, but sex wasn't one of them. Instead of her being able to say "I love everything about him. He pleases me like no other man has ever done", she said "I love him deeply, he'll make a great husband, a wonderful father and a great partner. I'll just have to overlook his inadaquacies in bed and learn to make sex unimportant. After all, I'm married now". If I had known I stood no chance what so ever in bed, there wouldn't have been a first date.

AFTERTHOUGHT EDIT: I wanted to add: most of the guys I've talked to over the years are much as I am about this. Whether dealing with old lovers in her past, or in a lot of cases 1 or more ex husbands, it bothers a man to think he's 'not the best' lover wise. I guess it's a man thing.

But what I've noticed is when a fellow is bothered by this, he really cares about her and what she thinks. He's really in love with her. When he no longer cares, when her opinion of him makes no difference at all, their marriage is in serious trouble. End of edit

Why didn't you want her to go? Communication is so very important. Maybe you might reconsider?

She has a couple traits I don't like. 1 She tells everything to her friends, no matter how intimate. She always has, even before she met me. 2 She will not go back into her past around me. Not even in a general way.

I told her I'd go if:

1 She agreed not to discuss any of this with her friends. I have a hard enough time opening up and discussing deep feelings. I didn't need her reporting in to her friends over a cup of coffee. I told her if she told her friends anything, her friends would tell others (husbands, boyfriends...etc. and I'd find out.

2 She had to open up. I told her she didn't have offer up anything to discuss, but if the therapist asked a specific question about her past, she would give a complete and honest responce no matter how intimate the topic. (I mean hell, she'd tell her friends everything, I mean everything. But she wouldn't open up in front of me??!!)(and really, come on. If you're holding back or lying doesn't that defeat everything you're trying to accomplish going to the therapy?)

3 I asked her What do you want to accomplish? Whats cured? When do we shake the therapists hand and leave for good? I remember exactly what I said: Because I don't think I can go back to being the niave little guy proudly waving my penknife around like one of your ex boyfriends bayonets. I've came too far. Or do we turn your sex drive back on? Because we both know I can't satisfy you. You'll have to leave to find satisfaction.

She just nodded and said she'd think about it. Evidently there was something bad or scary about this. She never brought up therapy again for either of us.

I also got timed out while writing this response. Fortunately, I had hit "preview" and copied first. As to get logged out after you log in, this could possibly be a browser issue. That has happened to me in the past when I use AOL for this site.

Take care.

I've been religiously hitting the preview button, It's working like a charm. (Thanks SweetSue!)

I think you're right with the browser (or other electronic) issue. I've just brought a nice used computer off e-bay, and I've been trying to work a few bugs out. I'm used to and comfortable with XP pro, this has windows 7 on it.

My wife has a masters in business education, she minored and has a bacholors in computer sciences. (she also minored in french, of all things)

Anyways she doesn't teach anymore, she's the 'Computer Technologies Coordinator' For a large school system. She's offered to take my computer in for me and wipe the hard drive and install XP pro for me. I hate to stick with what's just comfortable, but I'm really thinking about it.

Thanks!

John

[flander]

have you thought about surgery?

Also, what browser are you using? If it's Internet Explorer, I'd dump it for Firefox or Chrome.

[gone]

have you thought about surgery?

Also, what browser are you using? If it's Internet Explorer, I'd dump it for Firefox or Chrome.

Sugery? I've idly thought about having it all cut off.

No, surgery has a multitude of complications. It just wouldn't add enough to make the cost worth it. And honestly, We're past that point now. If it doubled my size and I had 8", it wouldn't matter at this point.

Yeah, I'm using explorer. I'm an old fuddy duddy. I hate to change to something I'm unfamiler with. I had explorer on my old computer and didn't have these problems. Both my boys are in college and urging me to go to chrome. They say they'll coach me, and once I learn to use it I'll prefer it.

John

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Well, John, you might have been successful in giving the impression that the only reason you want therapy is the opportunity to quiz her about her past sex life.

[gone]

Well, John, you might have been successful in giving the impression that the only reason you want therapy is the opportunity to quiz her about her past sex life.

No, no. Honestly, she had told her friends all about her encounters, and I had heard all about them. Heck, I could probably have quoted times, names, sizes, frequency of orgasms.....etc. Through her telling her friends everything in their 'girl talk' I had nothing to quiz about.

This had started When I was just becoming concerned about our sexual relationship. She had told me (paraphrasing) I shouldn't pressure her about having an orgasm. Then I started to ask "well have you ever had one with another guy"? (I knew she had, I was just trying to start a discussion) I wasn't trying to pry, I didn't want her to name names, or anything. She cut me off sharply and said "Oh, no! We're not going there!" END OF DISCUSSION

I just wanted to know if there was anything she particularly liked or enjoyed. Something she wished I'd do that she was too embarrised to tell me, that's all. She was (probably still is) oddly embarrised and reluctant to discuss her needs with me. I'm not a mind reader, I really needed help here. But I quickly found out it wasn't coming from her.

The only point I was trying to make was she had to open up in front of me if the therapist (not me) asked a question he or she thought was important. She wasn't allowed to say Oh no we're not going there to the therapist. That's all.

EDIT: I'd also repectfully point out I wasn't the one saying we needed to go to therapy. I was the one who quit. I wasn't trying to talk her into going for nefairious reasons, she was the one trying to get me to go.

John

[IrmaJean]

It's been so long since I've been emotionally connected to her I can't remember what that closeness felt like. Every day that goes by, I can look at us with a little more cold, clinicly detached impartiality. When I use my logic and not my emotions I realise our marriage is going through it death throws right now. There's no fire, no burning like in the beginning. Its a flickering, dying litle ember.

Or do we turn your sex drive back on? Because we both know I can't satisfy you. You'll have to leave to find satisfaction.

Sexual difficulties and dissatisfaction can reflect on the relationship. If you don't feel emotionally connected as a couple this could play a big part in this. Another good reason to go to counseling if you both want to save the marriage...

Whether dealing with old lovers in her past' date=' or in a lot of cases 1 or more ex husbands' date=' it bothers a man to think he's 'not the best' lover wise. I guess it's a man thing. [/quote'']

It might also speak to feelings of insecurity.

But what I've noticed is when a fellow is bothered by this' date=' he really cares about her and what she thinks. [/quote']

Or possibly he doesn't believe in his own worthiness in that she could love him, as he is.

He's really in love with her. When he no longer cares' date=' when her opinion of him makes no difference at all, their marriage is in serious trouble. [/quote']

Could it be that he is fearful of losing her? Of course a man would care how a partner felt about him, but he would likely be more vulnerable to any potential judgment from others if he already had self-doubts.

What are your positive qualities, John? What do you like about yourself? What do you think your wife appreciates and loves about you? Just some thoughts to consider.

I don't have much luck with Internet Explorer either, but Firefox works very well for me. I hope the new computer works out well for you.

Take care.

[Mardi Gras]

Man I walk away for a few days and it blows up here.

John,

First things first, you really need to use Firefox. I like it more than chrome. When this site logs me out and I have to log back in when I hit submit, I don't lose my text. You really won't know the difference except fewer pop-ups and faster, more convenient browsing. And it has a built in spell checker so we all look less illiterate The add-on called "fastest fox" is awesome, when you highlight text it'll find the definition of a word for you automatically, or bring up a brief of the Wikipedia entry on it.

You know, reading everything that's passed...something interesting occurred to me about my own wife. I was the first person she ever had an orgasm with just from intercourse. She told me that right when it happened, long before she had any idea I had self esteem issues. I believed her then because of the way her body responded to it that night, and the way she acted about it afterwards. She has to remind me of that time now a lot... I believed her then so it would be illogical for me to think she's lying now just to make me feel good. Before that I had given her orgasms plenty of times by cunnilingus, and I'm not sure that had happened all to often for her before either...

But the interesting point I want to share is that she told me it was extremely embarrassing for her that it was her first. Because she had told all her friends she used to have orgasms all the time...and now she had to go back and admit she was lying and say...this guy actually did it for real. All this happened before we were married, before engaged, before we admitted to each other we were in love.

Might your wife have been lying to her girlfriends? All of them probably lying to each other about their own sexual exploits, each making up a fanciful story to keep up with the last. Because women never want to best their friends

There's a lot of social pressure for sex to measure up to what we want it to...everybody lying to each other, about their lovers, about themselves. Nobody admitting about having bad sex, because that would make them less of a man or woman. Men lying about their own prowess in bed, women lying about theirs. I suspect your wife may not have been telling the truth to her friends...and is aware they shared her lie with you. Trying to convince you it was a lie would be futile, obviously, and also make her look like a liar in front of her friends.

If the sex for you is the best you've ever had because it's your wife...might the same be true for her? If it's true for a man, wouldn't it be a more valid point for a woman who is an even more emotional being, especially when it comes to sex? How they feel about the man they're lying with has the biggest impact on how sex feels.

I disagree that people may have the best sex of their lives with a stranger. I find that to be completely untrue in my case and other men and women I've talked with about it. I've had sex with scores of strangers and they all sucked. Just an act...going through the motions. Doing it out of a compulsive behavior...not because our bodies yearned for each other the way two people in love do.

And to tall of you...as far as pleasing a woman.....in all of mine I had never known a woman to orgasm from intercourse. My wife really is the first for me... But I've watched every single woman have one looking up at her from between her legs. It was always really easy for me when I was going down... that had always been my saving grace. And it made me feel good...because I could pleasure them. It always gave me great pleasure when they'd say I was the best they'd ever had at that. Or the first that ever made it happen like that.

I've also used a plethora of toys, all shapes and sizes, on lots of women. Ironically, as much as they enjoyed it, none of them orgasmed from it. Come to think of it, I do not recall seeing a positive correlation between the size and gratification.

John, we already talked about the conditions and how while they are very valid emotions, I really don't think they're applicable. And if your wife was the one that wanted you to go last time... she'd probably still be supportive of it now. I see a lot of the old mindset in the past few posts from you...the one I know all too well, the one we both need to get away from.

I wish your wife knew about this forum. About how you still care very much about sex, and even more about your relationship with her. I wonder how many of the feelings you have about your marriage are mutual, including how much you cherish it. I can tell how much you miss her.

I told my wife tonight, over Skype, about this place. She was asking what I was reading and when I said, "nothing", since it was a lie that was not the answer she was looking for...so I came clean. Not enough information that she could find it, I hope...but just that I found a place with other people that are embarrassed and loathing of their penis. She didn't really say much...I'm sure I'll hear more once she's had a chance to mull it over. She's quite thoughtful.

-mg

No, no. Honestly, she had told her friends all about her encounters, and I had heard all about them. Heck, I could probably have quoted times, names, sizes, frequency of orgasms.....etc. Through her telling her friends everything in their 'girl talk' I had nothing to quiz about.

This had started When I was just becoming concerned about our sexual relationship. She had told me (paraphrasing) I shouldn't pressure her about having an orgasm. Then I started to ask "well have you ever had one with another guy"? (I knew she had, I was just trying to start a discussion) I wasn't trying to pry, I didn't want her to name names, or anything. She cut me off sharply and said "Oh, no! We're not going there!" END OF DISCUSSION

I just wanted to know if there was anything she particularly liked or enjoyed. Something she wished I'd do that she was too embarrised to tell me, that's all. She was (probably still is) oddly embarrised and reluctant to discuss her needs with me. I'm not a mind reader, I really needed help here. But I quickly found out it wasn't coming from her.

The only point I was trying to make was she had to open up in front of me if the therapist (not me) asked a question he or she thought was important. She wasn't allowed to say Oh no we're not going there to the therapist. That's all.

EDIT: I'd also repectfully point out I wasn't the one saying we needed to go to therapy. I was the one who quit. I wasn't trying to talk her into going for nefairious reasons, she was the one trying to get me to go.

John