[!] Sex. Offended?

[malign]

"Claws! Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water ..."

I have more and more respect for dreams and what they're trying to tell us, but I can't claim to be great at interpretation.

Maybe it means you feel you haven't got a leg to stand on?

Life is shell?

Stop bathing with seafood?

Yah. :-) I'm not helping.

[JaiJai]

cry if i want to

[malign]

"this is what im worth."

Ah bull. This isn't how you measure your worth; it's just something you do. You do nothing else? You treat people kindly; I've seen that. I bet there are long lists of "worthy" things you do, only you don't let yourself see them.

"You'd think i would want to be the one in control."

Not necessarily. Besides, from one point of view, you are the one in control. You don't have to go through with it. The question you need to work on is why it's important to use the most dangerous means possible. It feels a bit like bungee-jumping to me, but insisting on your cord being the longest one. That's not a judgment, by the way; you're free to do what feels right to you. It's just my realistic assessment of the dangers.

By the way, chloroform isn't the ideal method of putting someone to sleep. It's no longer used as an anesthetic or soporific for good reasons (Wikipedia: "it [chloroform] was quickly abandoned in favor of ether upon discovery of its toxicity, especially its tendency to cause fatal cardiac arrhythmia ... ") It's just information, though ...

"I want to lose myself. dissapear."

Yah, that bit makes "sense". That is, I understand the feeling, not that it's the ideal thing to do in the circumstances.

But there's a difficult dichotomy when talking to you: on one hand, you say that what happened to you as a child was all fine, and the biggest negative came from people trying to stop you. Yet, you call yourself some pretty horrible names ... If it's all okay, especially now that it's you doing it to you, why the names? Or, if you really feel the names are true, why insist that it's all okay?

[IrmaJean]

I dont think its self destructive' date=' its just a body. We use it to get off and lose ourselves, and nothing else matters.[/quote']

It's your body and if you don't take care with it, you could be hurt. I don't want that to happen.

Have you ever owned something that you treasured and loved? When you cherish something, you naturally want to be gentle with it and keep it from harm, don't you think?

Just like as a kid. I dont feel compassion for my younger self cus my younger self was into it.

Your younger self was forced to grow up way before her time.

I want to lose myself. dissapear.

Is this symbolic in any way? What happens when you are visible in every day life?

Please take care with you.

[JaiJai]

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[pseudome]

I’m sorry you are struggling with this so much, Jaijai.

This is what Im worth when it comes to sex. In my day to day life I have to be a decent person, someone that is trusted, is kind and caring. These things serve me well at work and in my community. But I dont interest anyone romantically. if i threw myself into some painful dating/singles situation, i'm way awkward, unless ive been drinking. I keep people at a distance.

I think you’re selling your worth a bit short. Is it that you don’t interest anyone romantically, or is it that you are afraid you won’t interest anyone romantically? Because I can’t imagine the first would be true. As for awkward, well in some ways I think dating and relationships are awkward for everyone to at least some degree. That’s the nature of the beast. But sometimes awkwardness is enhanced by fear.

Nobody called me those names when i was a kid either. But it was always shock, and disgust, and punitive when i was caught doing something. I was already horrified and embarassed. And now i was being dragged by one arm and berated. Who knows what they even said. I was scared of being caught. not cavalier by any means. I wasnt out to get in trouble. But i was so obsessed I had to do it anyway.

I think sometimes when we’re kids, we do things kind of on autopilot—we engage in behaviors because they are the behaviors we engaged in before because no one has shown us the alternative. In addition, kids often mimic what they see almost unconsciously sometimes. Because of this, telling a kid they are doing something wrong is very different than telling a kid what they should have done instead and why. There’s an episode of the Simpsons that comes to mind (sorry if this is kind of random) where (now I might be getting some of the details wrong…) Bart and Millhouse are on a cliff and I think Millhouse is supposed to run and push a fake dummy version of Bart off the cliff. But after Millhouse starts running, Bart needs him to stop (maybe because it was Bart in the way instead of the dummy…my memory seems to suck right now). Anyway, Bart tells Millhouse to stop, but Millhouse has already started running, and so he says as much “But I’m already running!” and he cannot stop from carrying out the rest of the steps in the plan. I have memories of little things I did as a kid that felt like that as well—doing something I knew wasn’t going to work out right or I knew was wrong in someway, but I just kind of went through the motions anyway as though I couldn’t control it. I figure it must be some sort of normal kid thing.

My animosity towards those adults now, comes from the fact that not one of them approached me with concern, or asked if anything was amiss. It was "You're Bad!" Stop playing with your privates! Nice girls dont let people touch them there!". It was angry and hostile and i was punished.

I wasnt mad that people tried to intervene, at the time i was ashamed. Now I'm pissed, and I do feel that the way my behaviour was handled by other adults had as much impact on me as the actual exposure to sexual activities.

I’m very sorry this happened and that adults treated you in this way. I agree with you that their reactions played a very huge role in this. In some ways, it is the fact that something is deemed taboo or different from the norm, that makes it traumatizing moreso than the actual thing itself. How something is perceived by others informs how we perceive it ourselves.

So here's a thought experiment. How would the impact on me have been different if the sex still happened with the adult. and I was never caught ever? Never reprimanded.

and what if I was caught with the adult.? Would the reaction been as punitive towards a 5, 6 year old as it was when caught with other kids?

It’s hard to say exactly how the impact would differ. I’m not sure what impact the acts alone had on you. I do think it was probably confusing to be exposed to porn at such a young age and this exposure in and of itself is a form of abuse—you saw things that you couldn’t have fully understood at the time and this in turn has an effect on your sexuality as it develops. Experimenting with other children seems less of a danger; one big issue with a child + adult is the power differential. The child can become manipulated very easily and loses the ability to speak up for themselves… I can go into more detail on the matter if you’d like.

I don’t exactly know the details of the sex-with-adult situation you are describing (sorry if you’ve posted it somewhere and I’ve missed it), but there are potentially many many factors that come into play (such as how old you were at the time and if it was forced on you in any way and etc). But part of me can see where you are coming from with this….one thing I’ve found about my situation is that I have a hard time directing any of the hate or negative feelings towards my uncle. There are a lot of reasons for this, but some of it is that at the time, or at least some of the times, there were aspects of that relationship that seemed positive and worthwhile….

Do take care of yourself, jai. You are a worthwhile person made up of many different parts that don’t necessarily need to be at war with each other.

[JaiJai]

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[pseudome]

While I would like to believe that im horribly down on myself and that all i needed was a new perspective, the reality is that I'm 30 years old and that Ive never been in a relationship that amounted to more than fuck buddies.

Sometimes things like this can be self fulfilling prophecies—if you think this is all you are worth, then this is all you end up with. But the reality is, this isn’t all you are worth.

You also aren’t the only one still single in your thirties who isn’t still wanting more than that one day, though seeing those around you finding happiness, i agree, can be painfully frustrating.

While growing up I used to think my Moms family was normal. ThEy R so FuCked uP! Its almost comical if it werent so devastating to thier personal lives. And I may be talking out of my ass, but it seems like their ability to trust and build stable intimacy with others is completely disfunctional for the majority of that side of the family. I love em(mostly) But they can be ridiculous.

I think when we’re kids, we accept whatever we’re around as normal until we are able to gain more perspective. Then we spend some time denying our abnormality because it hurts so much when we see what we’ve missed. When reality really sinks its claws in, it only seems to open up wounds everywhere.

I hope things go okay today on your visit. Take care of yourself.

[IrmaJean]

Hi Jai. I'm wondering, how do you feel in your friendships? Are you able to connect and feel comfortable in them?

I hope your visit with your mother goes well.

[JaiJai]

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[Musicman]

Hey Jai, I obviously can't offer much advice simply because I'm lacking in my own life experiences, but I just want you to know that I'm thinking about you .

[IrmaJean]

The reality is, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

If you believe the past will repeat itself, it probably will. Changing means challenging yourself and allowing different thoughts a chance in your mind.

I have a zero batting average (actually i dont really understand batting averages-im more of a hockey fan)' date=' ya know. So why keep fighting it, ill settle for being the slut-bag spinster =/ who lives in the basement. [/quote']

It would probably be easier to give in to this and stop trying to discover yourself, but if your motivation is in change and healing, you will need to challenge the beliefs you have about yourself.

I dont feel anything when i call myself those names. Ya i do feel like the sex with adult wasnt that big of a deal. But i dont connect the two to each other. Its more removed than that. So far i think this earlier comment still describes why im ambivalent about the sex stuff and the consequences

"I had sex with an adult who was nice' date=' gave me positive attention, made me feel like i was worth somthing (age 5-7). And the rightous can sit back and say...well, but of course he only did this for his own sexual gratification! And that's fine, as an adult i can see logic in that, but that doesnt change how it felt. I felt love, affection, and acceptance from one adult. I got disgust, ostrisized, and contempt from the **others. Where would your loyalties lie? " [/quote']

But you are an adult now, JaiJai, and you know that what happened to you when you were a child was wrong. You know that it had nothing to do with love, affection, and acceptance. There are ways to feel love, affection and acceptance within your adult relationships where you are valued and respected.

I like feeling used.

I think perhaps you made some connections as a young child that were distorted...

You deserve to be cherished, Jai.

Please take care of yourself.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

You know, Jai, there's nothing wrong with the sexual fantasies you mentioned. I think it still comes as a shock to most men (and some women) that a number of women enjoy the rape/against her will/being used like a sex toy fantasy. If anyone disagrees check out the book "My Secret Garden" by Nancy Friday (and remember that it was written back in 1972!). I myself admit that I peruse the Craigslist casual encounters section from time to time and sometimes even post there to see what kind of reaction I get. While I've never met anyone through those sites (usually because there's a very real lack of attractive women on those sites), there is a certain undercurrent of excitement that can't be denied.

Now in today's society, it still is considered taboo for a woman to knowingly enjoy "dangerous" sex. Now the question for you is this: 1) Do you understand the risks (you seem smart enough to), and 2) are the risks acceptable? If they are, then forget what the prudes say and do what makes you happy as long as you're not endangering or hurting anyone else (and I'm not talking about S&M either). However, if this behavior is self-destructive (in an objective way, not in a moralistic way), then by all means, modify it.

[pseudome]

i know it sounds fucked up, but whats new. I like rape and forced sex setups. I like unconscious sex. I like feeling used. until its over.

Until it’s over. What do you feel when it’s over? What would you like to be different?

I agree with IJ--you deserve to be cherished. Are you afraid you aren't worth this?

[pseudome]

However, if this behavior is self-destructive (in an objective way, not in a moralistic way), then by all means, modify it.

I think this is the key here. I think what has been distressing Jai (correct me if I'm wrong) is that this has been self destructive to some degree. This doesn't mean there needs to be a switch to the most boring and monogamous relationship conceivable, but maybe this means taking the emotional effects into consideration more and not being in a place where it leaves you feeling bad afterwards. You don't deserve to feel worthless.

[JaiJai]

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[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Exactly. Better than fucking and punching anyway.

[JaiJai]

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[IrmaJean]

You're not an object, JaiJai. You're a human being with needs like any of us. I'm sorry you were used and taken advantage of like this when you were a young child.

You have every right to be angry about what happened. No child should ever be treated that way.

Have you noticed that it is difficult to allow positive, caring thoughts about yourself?

I hope you will consider challenging the beliefs that you have about yourself.

Take care.

[JaiJai]

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[IrmaJean]

If you believe you can't, you won't.

Could it be that the risky things you do are a means of escaping and avoiding the pain? Could it be that you turn your anger inward and punish your own body (and sense of self) by taking such risks?

Give hope a chance and you may discover new truths.

[malign]

"The reality is, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour."

Well, if that were an absolute truth, we'd all still be messing our diapers.

We all grow, we all learn, we all change. If we want to badly enough.

I'm not saying what you "should" anything (either do or feel), though, Jai. You're responsible only to yourself.

Which is why there isn't really any controversy, out here. I suspect there's one going on inside you, though. And it could probably go either way: it seems safe to you to avoid "cherished" at all costs, but some other part feels that you're throwing yourself away. No one else is going to be able to make that decision for you.

But we'd want to be your friends either way.

[JaiJai]

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[malign]

Yep. I believe you.

It sounds like you're in transition, all right.

The hopeful thing we all know from that analogy, though, is that the vertigo goes away after a little while.

Who knows the "right" direction to head? We're all lucky if we blunder into something good in our wanderings. If the road really were straight and narrow there'd be Munchkins singing along it.

"Ain't no mountain high enough ..."

Sorry, betraying my age. ;-)

You can do it, Jaime.

[JaiJai]

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