Resolute Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 If you can't change your circumstance then change your mind. It works! I have given you all the answer for free! People say it's a delusion? Then I ask what's not a delusion? any acceptance of subjective truths at the expense of objective ones is a delusion, period.Why is being happy, rational, and well adjusted a delusion but being bitter, miserable and suicidal not?? I'll take the delusion! you're making unsubstantiated presumptions. it seems you're using unconventional definitions for certain terms. what does "happy" mean to you? i'm sure you agree that there's a significant difference between being truly happy (even without my unrealistic definition of happiness), and pretending to be happy. we also seem to disagree on what "rational" means. again, to me, it's about objectiveness vs subjectiveness. i also dispute your definition of "well adjusted". adjusting well based on subjective truths aka delusions, doesn't make one objectively well adjusted.Who cares what the ultimate philosophical truth is? Will it matter when your dead?even tho the ultimate philosophical truth is of the utmost importance, and i for one certainly care a great deal about it, it is, unfortunately, not the only obstacle between me and any sort of happiness (or at least a bearable existence). my other problem is my circumstances and genes. you keep insisting that biology is destiny, and yet you keep actively undermining that concept with such philosophies. it's like saying: "biology is destiny, but if you can't change your biology (and by association, your destiny) then change your mind (and by implication, your destiny).".i have asked this question repeatedly, but it appears that no one can answer it: what makes "living" a good/positive/necessary thing, and death the opposite? why is the desire for death/suicide a bad thing, and the desire to stay "alive" a good thing?i hope the site lets you reply lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Lol Grandmaster Victim has spoken! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 for some reason, i just thought of skynight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 As for your question Resolute, it can probably be answered better on an individual level. Some people find genuine joy in life and prefer their experiences to absolute nothingness. Others are in misery and prefer to end their existence. It's so subjective that it's probably inappropriate to answer on a universal level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Whatever works for you Victim, it's great. If you're somehow able to create a mental utopia where others can't then more power to you. Even if it is slightly askew from the accepted actuality of life, tranquillity I suppose, could be healthier than a dark truth that ultimate consumes and destroys. I personally prefer the truth, but I'm a miserable mofo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 As for your question Resolute, it can probably be answered better on an individual level. Some people find genuine joy in life and prefer their experiences to absolute nothingness. Others are in misery and prefer to end their existence. It's so subjective that it's probably inappropriate to answer on a universal level.try telling that to the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Whatever works for you Victim, it's great. If you're somehow able to create a mental utopia where others can't then more power to you. Even if it is slightly askew from the accepted actuality of life, tranquillity I suppose, could be healthier than a dark truth that ultimate consumes and destroys. I personally prefer the truth, but I'm a miserable mofo.so are klingsor and i. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 i have asked this question repeatedly, but it appears that no one can answer it: what makes "living" a good/positive/necessary thing, and death the opposite? why is the desire for death/suicide a bad thing, and the desire to stay "alive" a good thing?i hope the site lets you reply lol.These are the type of questions that don't have a specific black and white answer, I don't think. People will have their own thoughts and views. I can offer my own, for whatever it's worth.I don't think death in and of itself is negative. Death is a very natural part of our existence. I wouldn't judge a person for wanting to take their own life or wishing to die.I think that life offers each of us opportunity and I feel sad when opportunity is lost. But, yes, those are my personal feelings. As for what makes life good and positive to me, I could write so much, but my thoughts and feelings might not fit for someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 These are the type of questions that don't have a specific black and white answer, I don't think. People will have their own thoughts and views. I can offer my own, for whatever it's worth.my position is that there probably is an objective truth for any given issue, including this one. i will accept that it's a subjective topic, however, for the purposes of this thread.I don't think death in and of itself is negative. Death is a very natural part of our existence. I wouldn't judge a person for wanting to take their own life or wishing to die.happy to hear that.I think that life offers each of us opportunity and I feel sad when opportunity is lost.beth, you gotta agree with me that some of us simply have no opportunity here except for pain, misery and suffering. and that is certainly an opportunity worth losing.But, yes, those are my personal feelings. As for what makes life good and positive to me, I could write so much, but my thoughts and feelings might not fit for someone else.and if i were to write about what makes life so hellish, and all the positives of nonexistence, i could probably author multiple books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 You & Klingsor are on a pretty similar wavelength when it comes to a lot of things, which must be nice to communicate with someone so like minded. Anyway, victim does have a point and I can't help but notice he seems like a stable guy. Most people live in some sort of delusion though surely? I see people walking around going about their days and they appear so sickeningly smug with themselves. Pisses me off actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 i don't think that victim is the only stable person around. there are other stable people here, including me . i think "functional" is a more appropriate description (that might not apply to some of us) for victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 There was discussion in another thread I think about expectations and reward. Maybe it could help to look at what feels rewarding before looking at expectations. What of your actions would you need to feel reward, Resolute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Maybe it could help to look at what feels rewarding before looking at expectations. What of your actions would you need to feel reward, Resolute?i've read your post a few times, and i'm still not sure what you mean. this part in particular is unclear to me: "What of your actions would you need to feel reward....". what do i need to do to feel reward? or what needs to happen in order for me to feel reward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I'm sorry it wasn't clear. I meant the latter, what needs to happen in order for you to feel reward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I'm sorry it wasn't clear. I meant the latter, what needs to happen in order for you to feel reward?ok. thanks for clarifying. i guess the short answer to your question would be: to feel like a man. and given my definition of the word "man", i will never feel like one in this lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 There are things you could work with, such as your definition of what being a man is...or the deeper meaning behind why you have this definition. I don't know how willing you might be to explore any of this, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted February 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I think it is a delusion to think that objective truth can be applied to everyday life! Scientists staring at the same thing under a microscope often can't agree on what the objective truth is so how can the rest of us ever hope to harness this elusive phenomena? It seems to me what we have in society these days is a lot of over educated people that confuse objective truth w a certain level of vocabulary and linguistic skill. They end up confusing a picture of the sun stuck to the window w the actual sun that would like to shine through. So what is this actual sun of which I speak? Well I am going to tell you. The only thing I can be truly certain of is my thoughts right here right now. Life is conversation, a speaking and listening. Why? Because that is how it occurs. I am pointing directly at the non-conceptual world, to absolute subjectivity. Will you dare look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 There are things you could work with, such as your definition of what being a man is...this is like deja vu lol. haven't we been thru this already? changing definitions isn't a real solution, it's like putting a bandage on a severed limb.or the deeper meaning behind why you have this definition. I don't know how willing you might be to explore any of this, though.one of the things i have trouble wrapping my head around is what identifying "deeper meanings/(reasons) behind" things actually accomplishes. let's say i managed to figure out the deep rooted causes behind all my psychological problems (be it lack of love during childhood, some very extreme events, or whatever else), what practical good would that really do me? i can't go back and prevent these things from happening. i also won't do any exercises to "heal" myself over the course of 739 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I think it is a delusion to think that objective truth can be applied to everyday life! Scientists staring at the same thing under a microscope often can't agree on what the objective truth is so how can the rest of us ever hope to harness this elusive phenomena?It seems to me what we have in society these days is a lot of over educated people that confuse objective truth w a certain level of vocabulary and linguistic skill. They end up confusing a picture of the sun stuck to the window w the actual sun that would like to shine through.So what is this actual sun of which I speak? Well I am going to tell you. The only thing I can be truly certain of is my thoughts right here right now. Life is conversation, a speaking and listening. Why? Because that is how it occurs. I am pointing directly at the non-conceptual world, to absolute subjectivity. Will you dare look?i agree with you that in most cases, it's practically impossible to know the objective truth for certain. that said, we must accept a couple of things;1. in areas where logic applies, everything else is void.2. a logical argument must be considered sound unless proven (logically) otherwise.3. in areas where logical reasoning doesn't apply, almost everything is going to be subjective and therefor uncertain.4. personal views/feelings/etc. (subjectivity) don't just happen overnight. they form over many years or even decades of different experiences. they also can't change at will. in order for a person's subjective views to change, his experiences (which rely on genes and circumstances) must change (for some people these experiences must change dramatically and/or for an extended period of time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I hope you don't mind that I'm going to keep trying, Resolute. Do you think that everyone has the same exact definition of what being a man is? Do you think there is a right and wrong definition?Understanding the past and the why's helps me a lot. It may not help everyone, I understand that is true. For me, even though I can't always change my responses, I can understand why I have them. I can understand that the feelings that formed when I was younger (and the associations my younger self made) aren't necessarily the truth but are ideas that came to be because of the circumstances. Like the one I have about being unimportant or not valued. 47 year old me understands my parents were overwhelmed trying to care for 4 kids, one who has classic autism, and were spread very thin. 1 year old me didn't understand this. Rationally when these feelings come up now I am aware it's an old tape playing and this lessens the power of the feelings. It isn't easy, but I can recognize this now and turn down the voice that plays in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 I hope you don't mind that I'm going to keep trying, Resolute.that's because you're a sweet person . i don't mind.Do you think that everyone has the same exact definition of what being a man is? Do you think there is a right and wrong definition?i'm sure that not everyone has the same view of what being a man means. personally, i think that any definition that doesn't emphasize masculinity is flawed because emphasizing traits that aren't gender specific (more or less) is somewhat meaningless when trying to define the characteristics of a certain gender. if we wanted to define what a "good person" is, then maybe, but not when defining a person of a particular gender.Understanding the past and the why's helps me a lot. It may not help everyone, I understand that is true. For me, even though I can't always change my responses, I can understand why I have them. I can understand that the feelings that formed when I was younger (and the associations my younger self made) aren't necessarily the truth but are ideas that came to be because of the circumstances. Like the one I have about being unimportant or not valued. 47 year old me understands my parents were overwhelmed trying to care for 4 kids, one who has classic autism, and were spread very thin. 1 year old me didn't understand this. Rationally when these feelings come up now I am aware it's an old tape playing and this lessens the power of the feelings. It isn't easy, but I can recognize this now and turn down the voice that plays in my head.i'm glad that this works for you, at least to an extent. but it won't for me, mainly because i refuse to struggle my entire life (examining every feeling that arises and exerting so much energy trying to react to it accordingly). like i said, i don't consider this this to be an actual solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Have you ever done anything and then felt good about what your efforts produced? Has the effort itself ever felt rewarding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Have you ever done anything and then felt good about what your efforts produced?nothing significant.Has the effort itself ever felt rewarding?nope. quite the contrary actually; it sickens me when my efforts are in vain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victimorthecrime Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Logic can't tell you your life's purpose or your heart's desire but logic can be a useful tool in attaining those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I'm not one of those people who finds the trip worth more than the destination.my thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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