IrmaJean Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I don't think we can accurately measure another person's suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 3 hours ago, IrmaJean said: I don't think we can accurately measure another person's suffering. trust me, beth, klingsor and i can definitely measure it, and with a high degree of accuracy, i might add. anyway, the point wasn't about exact measurements, as i'm sure you're aware. it's about how some people are clearly suffering, while others are clearly not, and others sort of in-between. this inconsistency accentuates the injustice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 My point was that I don't think we can't know if another person is suffering or not just by looking at them and how they appear externally. Also we can't know what their suffering might be like for them either. We only know how things are for us. My thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 52 minutes ago, Resolute said: trust me, beth, klingsor and i can definitely measure it, and with a high degree of accuracy, i might add. Please enlighten me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 22 minutes ago, IrmaJean said: My point was that I don't think we can't know if another person is suffering or not just by looking at them and how they appear externally. Also we can't know what their suffering might be like for them either. We only know how things are for us. My thoughts. this vague stuff won't get us anywhere, so i'll ask a direct question: do you agree that some people suffer much more than others, or not? no measuring required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Small said: Please enlighten me i was sort of kidding there. i just meant that it is possible for some people to get an idea about someone's suffering (or lack thereof) thru sufficient observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Oh okay. I thought you might have invented that machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 if i were to invent something, it would be something that makes me irresistible to women. a machine, or maybe something like that "love potion no. 9" lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Like Klingsor alluded to (about himself) quite some time ago, if you became irresistible to women you'd destroy yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, Small said: Like Klingsor alluded to (about himself) quite some time ago, if you became irresistible to women you'd destroy yourself. idk about klingsor, but why/how the hell would i destroy myself? unless you mean women would "destroy" me, in which case, i'd be in seventh heaven and a legend lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 https://youtu.be/tPPvkhGZT7Y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 i've never owned anything of value, so i guess i wouldn't truly know, would i? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 >External Loci of control & approval >A chronic obsession to please the external loci >A neglection of the self (essence) to personify expected characteristics of stud >A disconnection with emotional and meaningful bonds and relationship with self, family, and everyone >A constant need to satisfy the superficial status of a stud >The sole existance of the conscious psyche inside a conpletely manufactured schema >The generalisation of hedonism which results in the over indulgance of materialistic gains, and possible substance abuse >The neglection of ones own physical and mental wellbeing >Narcissim and sociopathy You'll basicall go from a deep, thoughtful & sensitive man to a dildo. Women will own you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 "klingcorn" lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 18 minutes ago, Small said: >External Loci of control & approval there will always be external loci, be it of approval or disapproval. 18 minutes ago, Small said: >A chronic obsession to please the external loci an obsession only exists in the absence of the needed/desired thing. 18 minutes ago, Small said: >A neglection of the self (essence) to personify expected characteristics of stud you should know me better than that. 18 minutes ago, Small said: >A disconnection with emotional and meaningful bonds and relationship with self, family, and everyone if women were easily attainable i wouldn't obsess over them so much. and if i don't obsess i wouldn't neglect/disconnect from anything. 18 minutes ago, Small said: >A constant need to satisfy the superficial status of a stud if i'm irresistible, this shouldn't be a problem. besides, who says it's superficial? 18 minutes ago, Small said: >The sole existance of the conscious psyche inside a conpletely manufactured schema is this the same as the previous point, or am i misunderstanding? 18 minutes ago, Small said: >The generalisation of hedonism which results in the over indulgance of materialistic gains, and possible substance abuse again, you should know me better than that. 18 minutes ago, Small said: >The neglection of ones own physical and mental wellbeing see previous responses. 18 minutes ago, Small said: >Narcissim and sociopathy perhaps, but who cares lol? seriously tho, i doubt it. 18 minutes ago, Small said: You'll basicall go from a deep, thoughtful & sensitive man into a dildo. Women will own you. like i said, that's highly unlikely, but even so, do you honestly believe that becoming a dildo can possibly be less fulfilling than my current situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrmaJean Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Resolute said: this vague stuff won't get us anywhere, so i'll ask a direct question: do you agree that some people suffer much more than others, or not? no measuring required. There is no way to consider this, from my perspective, because I cannot accurately experience the world as another person does. I can't compare what I can't know. I do try to understand and empathize as best as I can. I think that many many people suffer in silence. We really have no idea what personal battles others might be coping with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 23 minutes ago, IrmaJean said: There is no way to consider this, from my perspective, because I cannot accurately experience the world as another person does. I can't compare what I can't know. I do try to understand and empathize as best as I can. I think that many many people suffer in silence. We really have no idea what personal battles others might be coping with. beth, i'm not gonna let that slide. it's very simple, do you really think that all guys who have casual sex with countless beautiful women are actually "suffering in silence"? or that there aren't any people who aren't suffering much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 I think you've underestimated a few things here. Firstly, you can easily be obsessed with something within reach. Look at bodybuilders or plastic surgery enthusiasts. Obsession is usually magnified when people have an external loci of control/approval since they can't see themselves for what they have. You've consistently insisted that you would spend your days as someone that revolves himself around having sex with countless beautiful women. The fact that they're easily available only means the obsession evolves from wanting women to desire you to fulfilling their desires. You've said it yourself between the lines. This will involve a complete dismissal of the self, and the adoption of a set of characteristics that women would expect in this aristocratic sex god. The reasons it's superficial is because it's rootless. The stud desire is based first on a social construct & then through the expectations of women. This means that this persona will only be as deep as your cognitive schema hence superficial and baseless. A huge disconnect will subsequently emerge between your manufactured conscious schema and your innate psyche and you'll feel empty, shallow, and withdrawn from your natural thoughts and feelings. Since you're an "all or nothing" type, I doubt you'll have the restraint or perspective to stay balanced and will easily be consumed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 11 minutes ago, Small said: The reasons it's superficial is because it's rootless. The stud desire is based first on a social construct & then through the expectations of women. This means that this persona will only be as deep as your cognitive schema hence superficial and baseless. A huge disconnect will subsequently between your manufactured conscious schema and your innate psyche emerge and you'll feel empty, shallow, and withdrawn from your natural thoughts and feelings. everything is based on something more or less external. what makes this any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 You don't want to be a good looking guy that can get a good looking girl. You want to be a super hot, aristocratic sex god that spends his time pleasing women. This involves the absolute and complete neglect of your essence and the adoption of stereotypical idiosyncrasies that are manufactured and unrooted. This is dangerous because you're not using a social cue to fulfill a naturally existing disposition. You're creating an unnatural construct and neglecting your natural disposition. Living through the eyes of women will make this worse. Controlling yourself will be synonymous to trying to win a prize from one of those clawed machines in an arcade. You'll have a weak grasp on yourself since your existence will be held in a purgatory between your mind and the collective women you're trying to please. Not everything is based on external influences. This is in fact a relatively new phenomenon in the human existance which started in the television era and grew out of control in the Internet era. The human psyche isn't designed to be primarily driven by external stimuli which is why the conscious mind is relatively small compared to the subconscious. It's meant to be driven by internal desires which is why people who are able to self actualise etc seem to be more impervious to temptation. The desire to please women/to be desired by women are naturally existing but in relatively small amounts. This doesn't mean that the complete and outwardly obsession of it through social cues is healthy. It's like injecting yourself with steroids because testosterone naturally exists in the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Klingsor, the first bit was me adressing a hypothetical scenario Mr. Res gave me. Go back and read it. It isn't a contradiction. I'll address the rest after I've made dinner and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 @Small, when i talked about being a sex god who does almost nothing but bang hotties, i was talking more along the lines of fantasy, like in an afterlife or some such. if i'm to apply my desires to this world realistically, i'd say that i'd still wanna be irresistible to women and sleep with many beauties, but not 24/7. it would take up a part (albeit a big one) of my life, not all of it. i'd still wanna pursue other things, and i'd have the motivation to do so. will that kind of thinking also cause me to self-destruct if i suddenly became irresistible to women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 Manufactured V Innate psyche You've asked some pretty broad questions so I'm going to narrow things down a little. Since we're on the topic of sex I'll give that a go. I'll be deleting this post at some point. The difference between a manufactured and innate psyche can probably be demonstrated by using a simple example that's already a theme here. You already know that the subconscious (ID, Ego, Superego) feed the preconscious psyche, which in turn create a cognitive schema in the conscious mind. Cognitive Schemas are also formed through external stimuli which through constant conditioning, could shape a globule of characteristics that exist just above the preconscious area through top-down conditioning. The general idea is to have the preconscious area largely occupied by your subconscious attributes as to socially learned attributes, since I'm sure you'd agree, it's healthier and more satisfying to live as yourself than a reciprocal mirror of mainstream media, social norms and the status quo. When a natural characteristic or desire makes it's way from the subconscious psyche to the conscious mind, it forms a complete and uninterrupted connection between several psychological forces, allowing for a complete two way connection between the mind and the self. Imagine a connection of neurons travelling through various brain centres, or a complete circuit of energy powering a few light bulbs. This is in essence what self actualisation is. When enough circuits are formed from the subconscious and conscious mind, the individual becomes consumed by and intoxicated in his essence. Since we live in such a social age this has become an extremely difficult feat. Let's consider a sexual fetish or collection of fetishes. Say we have a submissive guy that prefers slow lovemaking, breasts and feet. The journey begins in the Superego, then the Pleasure Principle & then death drive of the subconscious. Superego's generally like breasts, PP likes lovemaking and the DD prefer feet usually for reasons of inferiority. The primary level of the PP/ DD/SE don't actually have characteristics, they simply desire pleasure/pain/love in it's purest form. Sort of like the core of a battery I suppose. This need travels through a communication network like wires, through the two outer centres of the PP/DD/SE. These centres are classically innate desires, then desires that were conditioned from early experiences respectively. But in most people there isn't a division line. They sort of mesh. So, a person could have been born with a submissive tendancy which was picked up by his mother who in turn, assumed a controlling and dominating attitude towards him. Someone that's submissive usually has a highly developed Superego to begin with, which is typically associated with desiring breasts. However, since submissiveness attracts dominance his subconscious learned to associate (through these wires) submissiveness with dominant attention ergo sexualised the latter through association. Other conditioned stimuli could be smells and textures he might have remembered, or whether he physically or mentally punished. The psyche learns a lot through association early on. Anyway, after gathering this information from the PP/DD/SE the wires travel to the preconscious which as well as being a collection of subconscious desires, also contains hardcoded information on sexual fantasies or experiences that caused a great deal of arousal because they contained some of the primal urges I've mentioned. Through association, if a primal desire was paired with a particular scenario, personality type, or look etc this could also become erotic. This is a complex web of information that the conscious and pre conscious craves. The preconscious feeds information to the conscious mind (as well as receiving it). So, if someone either experiences or watches porn regarding lovemaking, breasts and feet etc, they begin to develop preferences that are partially learned/manufactured but are predominantly deep rooted. They sit in the cogniyive schema but because they have an uninterrupted connection to the subconscious they're fulfilling. So, what's a manufactured sexual schema and why is it bad? Well for us, It's mostly influenced by mainstream porn. We look at porn and see a big cocked stud aggressively fucking some beautiful woman, giving her consecutive screaming orgasms. He isn't submissive, and is instead focused on fucking and dominating her. Obviously, like you've mentioned, this is a lot to do with living in a feminised society. If through social conditioning I'm then to accept, that during sex I must dominate and fuck a woman to orgasm, I have a manufactured sexual schema. Because I'm not expressing my natural tendencies or desires, the psychosexual connections I speak of become disconnected (short circuited?) then weakened in the psyche. Because of this, I'm divorced of my natural sexual desires, and only live in the manufactured schematic world void of my own essence and self connectivity. No matter how much sex I have it will feel shallow and I'll feel starved because 90% of my psychosexual being remains barren through the process. Can you see now, to say something like "Sexual desire is natural therefore it's only natural to want to be a sex god" is void of truth? I'll answer the blame part of your question later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 damn! we'll probably concede just so we wouldn't have to read that whole thing lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resolute Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 a couple of problems, small: 1. just as we don't determine external stimuli, neither do we determine our innate characteristics/stimuli/subconscious. so it's sort of the same problem, just in reverse. 2. what if we don't like our innate subconscious desires? we'll be miserable just the same. 3. what if we can't satisfy our innate desires? we're still screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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