The Reveal

[nearlydead]

I keep telling myself most of what I worry about does not matter that much.

But Im stuck on this negative image/thought. The moment when the woman Im with realises I am small. The vast majority of the women I have slept with have not made any comment and just carried on as normal. I have had a few say negative things and a few say things like "awww you're small" with a sympathetic edge.

But each time I have felt immense fear during the lead up to sex, and then immense shame when they see it or touch it for the first time. Every woman will know I am small, whether they think good, bad or indifferent they will know that I am small.

I try to visualize myself with women who I have been succesful with and I still cannot get rid of this fear shame.

I am also getting bored with all this self help stuff. I have had some real success with changing my thoughts, but I still feel the same. I still feel like Im just kidding myself. I still hate the look/feel of my penis, and I still feel shame/fear/hate when I imagine myself in action. Im pissing myself off, writing this.

[IrmaJean]

But each time I have felt immense fear during the lead up to sex, and then immense shame when they see it or touch it for the first time. Every woman will know I am small, whether they think good, bad or indifferent they will know that I am small.

I wish there were a way for you to separate yourself from the negative judgments you place on yourself around this. Did you ever come to understand why you feel shame about your penis? Why does your perception of its size mean so much to you? Have we been here before with this?

I am also getting bored with all this self help stuff.

Maybe it's time then to have some new experiences. How are you otherwise? Have you been socializing at all? How is your anxiety out in public?

I have had some real success with changing my thoughts, but I still feel the same. I still feel like Im just kidding myself. I still hate the look/feel of my penis, and I still feel shame/fear/hate when I imagine myself in action. Im pissing myself off, writing this.

Why do you think you are so hard on yourself?

[lifeless existence]

I am also getting bored with all this self help stuff. I have had some real success with changing my thoughts, but I still feel the same. I still feel like Im just kidding myself. I still hate the look/feel of my penis, and I still feel shame/fear/hate when I imagine myself in action.

And that, my friend, is exactly why self-help stuff is complete bullshit as far as I'm concerned. It tells you to think differently, but your life is still exactly the same. The positive thoughts may help you feel better temporarily, but without change for the better in your actual day to day life, you're not going to feel better on a long-term basis.

[IrmaJean]

Changing my thinking worked for me, Lifeless. Is my self-esteem perfect? No. But my life has changed pretty dramatically in a very positive way since therapy. The thing is you have to make the changes. You have to be proactive in creating the life you want.

[lifeless existence]

Being proactive in creating the life we want won't make a single one of us small guys any less susceptible to being rejected due to our size. We can't make someone accept us, no matter what we do. In the end, whether or not a woman is willing to settle for what we've got is entirely up to her.

[IrmaJean]

You know, Lifeless, that's really true for any of us in any relationship. "The one" usually ends up being a person who accepts our imperfections and appreciates and loves us as we are. Not an easy task for any of us. You be proactive by getting yourself out there and trying. You control what you can by putting yourself in the game.

[lifeless existence]

But the rest of you start out on a fairly level playing field. We have a major strike against us right off the bat.

There's no sense in continuing to argue. Those of you who don't have this problem don't get it and never will. You can't understand the magnitude of this problem unless you've faced life with it.

[IrmaJean]

Whether I get it or not isn't really the point, though, is it? The point is your having the kind of life you want. I'm stubborn because I'm trying to break through your negativity, Lifeless. Being negative and feeling that society is against you doesn't serve you. How about you think of ways that you can help yourself?

[Recluse]

I think the positive changes that can be made are changes that have to do with the other areas of our lives and improving the quality of the other areas and I think being aware of one's thoughts is helpful in that we can catch ourselves before allowing ourselves to let the depression over being small affect how we function in the world which all of us here have done. However, I have not had the same experiences as ND in regards to women and I have done much research on the internet and I just read a legitimate academic study where 45 out of 50 women said girth was the most important aspect of size to them. Average girth is fine but below is not. As I am between a half inch and an inch below average in girth, and because everything I have heard from women in my peer group since the age of 14 has been negative, the idea of ever having a normal dating and sex life is ridiculous to me. Using money to get sex is the only solution for me. I have other aspirations in life that I am working towards and the busier I keep myself, the more likely I am to make enough money to get sex on a regular basis and the less likely I am to ruminate on being sexually inadequate.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Recluse,

You need to meet more women your age, especially the types of women who are loving and compassionate. It does not sound to me as though you have ever had that experience?

Allan

[curtailed]

My thoughts too: what you can't change with your thinking or attitude, you can change by positive experience and loving care.

Compassion and affection are just as real emotions as any other. In women too.

[nearlydead]

And that, my friend, is exactly why self-help stuff is complete bullshit as far as I'm concerned. It tells you to think differently, but your life is still exactly the same. The positive thoughts may help you feel better temporarily, but without change for the better in your actual day to day life, you're not going to feel better on a long-term basis.

I think the idea is that by thinking a little differently the resulting positive thoughts allow the possibility of making changes in my actual life, which will lead to a better life in the long run. I have made changes, and I feel a little better. Im not ready to go out and meet a woman again, but I now accept that I have to eventually.

Rec, you are roughly the same girth as me. If you find a woman that feels a little loose to you. Just put your thumb in along side your penis. You then have instantly way above average girth. The ladies love it.

Irma, other than the usual I hate my penis, because its, small, ugly stupid looking, I dont know what you are getting at. I feel shame, stupid, inadequate. Same as people with facial scar's feel ugly because they are ugly, I feel shame because I am small

[lifeless existence]

Compassion and affection are just as real emotions as any other. In women too.

The world is filled with compassionate, affectionate women who don't want a small man for a boyfriend/husband. Not wanting to give up enjoyable penetrative intercourse for the rest of their lives does not make them any less compassionate or affectionate. Expecting them to give that up to be with us or faulting them for choosing an average size man over us would demonstrate a serious lack of compassion on our part.

[IrmaJean]

LE, how are you so certain that you could not offer pleasurable sex? I honestly don't think H is very different from any of you. Aside from my own problem, our time together is very pleasurable.

ND, I think I got stuck here before with you. Let me try to explain. I think you need to detach the label of "small" from your person. Without judging yourself explore what "small" means to you. When I ask why do you feel shame and you say it's because you're "small"...I wonder if you might go deeper with the thought of "small". I tend to believe that much in life is symbolic in nature and something which is very painful to you likely carries deeper weight and meaning beyond just straight forward answers. It becomes a sense of self. When I was in therapy my former therapist would ask me some heavy questions which would force me to think very deeply about a lot of things. It takes some time to get used to, but it's a useful exercise for coming to understand the deeper aspects behind your feelings and behaviors. My thought was that if you could lessen the weight of your perception of "small", you might not feel shame for being who you are.

Lifeless, read David O's post #55 "Bad Thoughts and Laughing Heads" in the New Members section and ask yourself if it might mean something to you.

[nearlydead]

after living with their dysfunctional behavior/values/views/beliefs for so many years, people become invested in defending their dysfunctions rather than changing them or being open to a new experience.

I think this was true for myself untill recently (6mths) There are also elements of masochism, a need to hurt ourselves for being unworthy, 2nd rate etc But at the same time there is an element of comfort, familiarity with those same old emotions, actions, rituals. Because making changes boht phsyically and mentally is really hard and often not successful on the 1st 2nd or 3rd attempt. I often have the thoughts "is this as good as it gets" and "life just isnt enough"

What does having a small penis mean to me? I still dont understand the supposed deeper meaning. It looks/feels/is small. It is something that most men would be ashamed of. Women have used it to abuse me, humilate me, or comiserate with me. As have the different male social circles I have been in.

My small penis has been the focus of the most trumatic expeirences of my life. I really do not think there is any deeper meaning than that. Its small and I hate it.

The only thing I know for certain, is that being able to have an average or normal size penis would be an instant cure for my mind.

[lifeless existence]

struggling to bite my tongue here

[curtailed]

The world is filled with compassionate, affectionate women who don't want a small man for a boyfriend/husband. Not wanting to give up enjoyable penetrative intercourse for the rest of their lives does not make them any less compassionate or affectionate. Expecting them to give that up to be with us or faulting them for choosing an average size man over us would demonstrate a serious lack of compassion on our part.

I have considered this.

I don't think the problem are the women but your own emotions, which lead you to not consider yourself as a worthy partner. We make excuses instead of creating action and leading the lives we want. I truly think the problem is inside our head.

-- St. Peter, curtailed

[IrmaJean]

struggling to bite my tongue here

Why bite your tongue, Lifeless? As long as you are respectful, fire away. Reactions and emotions all have meaning. I read that post and instantly connected it with you and others in this area on the site. That is not meant in any negative kind of way, but it is information that could be useful.

ND, having an average-sized penis wouldn't change the essence of who you are, would it? You'd still be ND, the engaging and smart guy with the great sense of humor.

Curtailed, I think you and I have the same personality type, don't we? We're both INFJs. Balance is always valuable. Thank you for your input. I agree that sense of self-worth is likely a big factor in this.

[nearlydead]

struggling to bite my tongue here

Dont be frightened, say it

[nearlydead]

ND, having an average-sized penis wouldn't change the essence of who you are, would it? You'd still be ND, the engaging and smart guy with the great sense of humor.

Thanks for the glowing assesment, how about dinner one night?

Being small has affected the essence of who I am, our characters are formed by our expeirences. The humour developed as a self defense, as mis direction, and its great for seducing the ladies without having to have real conversation.

I no longer hate who I am,(because I can change the bad bits) but I still hate what I've got (my penis).

I know with my girth and lenght I can have good satisfying penetrative sex with women. I know that this problem is greater in my head than it is to the majority of women.

But I am still stuck on this negative image and feeling that it looks stupid, pathetic etc when I am in a sexual situation. To me, it just looks out of place, a boy in a mans world. Its even worse looking now its circumcised.

I obviously need to detach from my penis, but how do I not focus on my penis, when using my penis is the end game. What I have just said, is that I have to remove my penis from having sex. Perhaps Im the most mental on this board.

[lifeless existence]

Dont be frightened, say it

Not frightened. Just trying to not be mean towards people here.

[nearlydead]

I appreciate your restraint. We all find something to disagree with when reading other peoples opinions, especially here, as its the blind leading the blind.

But as self help is the only avenue of help available to me, then I must persevere, even if I feel frustrated with my lack of progress, or real gains. Im clutching at straws, just like everyone else.

Curtailed, I know they dont always have electricity up there;), but please try to post some more. You make me think.

[Calla]

I have been reticent to post on these threads because as a female of course I can never possibly fully understand. However, I do have various issues to do with my body and especially some "parts" consider "sexual". So that side of the negativity is well known to me.

But I wonder whether another female perspective is welcome or would I just be getting in the way!!

[IrmaJean]

Lifeless, you can freely express anger without being mean. I understand that you are likely angry about my bringing that post to your attention. You also know that I care and have your best interests at heart. I never want or intend to minimize your pain and sadness with this.

Do you think that you expend more energy defending your painful situation than you do trying to move away from it? And, if so, why might you do this?

If reading this brings up some anger, that anger means something. If there wasn't something there to begin with, you likely wouldn't have such a strong response. From what I've read and learned (and one of the experts can correct me if I'm wrong), anger is very often a secondary emotion. Frequently it is used to protect other emotions which may be too painful to confront. (My H actually does this and it makes his occasional explosions much easier for me to understand now.) If your being pissed at me is what it takes for you to learn something about yourself with this, then I'm more than okay with that. The first time it happened to me in therapy I didn't even know what I was experiencing. I would call it a blood-boiling inner rage. After a while, I came to recognize this sensation and knew something big was behind it.

At any rate, I'm more than ready for it (as long as it is respectful) if it helps you to express it or if it will move you forward in a positive direction.

I do still hope that you consider finding another therapist. You need a qualified professional there with you on a week to week basis. I know your experiences have not been good, but there has to be at least one decent therapist where you live. Keep looking for him/her.

I have to remove my penis from having sex.

Actually that might well be a good insight, ND. Concentrate on the girl you are with, the connection and the pleasurable feelings. Sex is about people, not body parts. Look into her eyes and think about all that is good.

[nearlydead]

I have been reticent to post on these threads because as a female of course I can never possibly fully understand. However, I do have various issues to do with my body and especially some "parts" consider "sexual". So that side of the negativity is well known to me.

But I wonder whether another female perspective is welcome or would I just be getting in the way!!

Calla, your perspective would most definately be welcome. As a female with body issues, Im sure we have common ground.

although as competative men, our problems are far greater than anybody else's, think man flu:)