Deletions, A Discussion

[IrmaJean]

Hi Mary. My thought in this is once you come to know for yourself that you have done nothing to be judged negatively for, this concern about judgment from others may lessen.

I fear rereading my words and thus making them true about who I am.

The horrible acts of those who hurt you, mary, do not in any way define who you are as a person. They reflect only on those who hurt you. Your feelings about what happened to you are valid. Being able to express your feelings around this may help give you a voice and return some control to yourself. It's great that it offers you some relief to express yourself. I hope that you continue to do this. And to put a name to myself...I'm Beth.

Linda, has there been a time in your life when your feelings ever felt not worthy of expression? I do understand the feeling you've described here, though, and can relate to this. When I express myself very openly I can sometimes feel exposed and vulnerable too. I also believe that sometimes letting ourselves be who we truly are can feel very freeing. Getting through the discomfort part of it can be so challenging, though. I hope you continue to express your feelings and these feelings of discomfort lessen.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Mary, Linda and IrmaJean,

I have a couple of comments:

Mary: Please try to understand that your fear of being judged by others is a projection of self judgment. Yes, you are judging yourself. If you are aware of that you can begin to fight it by learning to be more self accepting.

Linda: What about the idea of allowing people who read your post, whether about suicide or other issue, and allowing them to post their feelings. Then, you could clarify.

Mary, Linda and Irma, my worry is that people are attempting to delete part of their own selves.

What do you think?

Allan:)

[malign]

I fear the many many nameless people who read my posts and don't comment but form a judgement about me based on what is written.

Mary,

What about the nameless people who read your posts and don't comment, but who think what I think: that this is a chronicle of an extremely brave woman facing something incredibly painful, and slowly making progress?

I know you find that hard to imagine, but I'd be willing to bet that's what most people think, who read your writing.

Allan,

As for people deleting a part of themselves when they delete here ... perhaps that, in itself, could be of some therapeutic value? Certainly, in the long run, we could hope they would be able to accept all their parts. But perhaps, for now, the ability to express it and then duck back into hiding is necessary? They get to see that no one reacted badly to their writing, but more importantly, they get to see that whatever internal consequences they fear didn't happen, either.

Deleting is something that clients don't get to do, in a therapy session, that they have the opportunity to do, online. You can't "unsay" something, in real life. For good or ill.

Perhaps the question is, to what benefit can we turn it? Obviously, it does no good to make them feel even worse about themselves for deleting, and I don't think that was the intent of Allan's question. Instead, it seems to me, the point is to get people to look at the "whys" of deleting, and this discussion is one step along the way.

[IrmaJean]

Perhaps the most meaningful aspect of this has more to do with the feelings which cause us to delete rather than the actual deleting itself. Deleting for me is a response to painful feelings. It's an act to lessen painful feelings. In confronting these painful feelings, understanding them and knowing where they stem from, I am now able to recognize this as a response to a distorted self-concept of myself. I'm not "deleting myself", but more deleting reminders of old and painful feelings.

I'll admit that this thread, when it first began, brought up an emotional response in me. In my upset, I considered that I was trying very hard to be the new me by posting freely what I'd felt, but sometimes I'd failed in this...and had ended up deleting anyhow. Thinking that I wouldn't have the opportunity to sometimes fail would make me less inclined to try at all. I would hate to see anyone else feel this way.

Posts get deleted sometimes. I think it's important for members to know that when this happens, it's okay. No judgments. Maybe, though, in exploring and understanding the whys, we can understand more about ourselves.

[rjridley]

Yes, that's what I meant.

Also...

The "you are not important" was the basis of my original low sense of self-worth. It is something that I still fight with at times, even when I know that seed was originally planted by life circumstances that were beyond everyone's control. As far as getting responses I'd want to hear...I'd much rather hear something than nothing. Silence in this is quite painful.

Whether it is this forum or others, I don't go back and delete my posts. But sometimes, to the contrary of your opinion on silence, I sometimes do not post things because I am looking for a response. I might post because there is no one in my real life that I can say to what I have written. If people do respond to such posts, I usually prefer if they are from people who say they can relate, as opposed to people who call themselves trying to give advice, because usually when I post to forums like these, I'm not usually looking for help, I'm just looking for people who can relate.

[confused12]

I just remember another reason why I have deleted in the past. This thread has triggered the memory. I once deleted posts after something I posted caused people to bicker back and forth, trying to get their point across. I am sensitive to this kind of carry on and often withdraw. It has been challenging for me to rejoin this thread after reading some of the more recent posts in this community.

However, I see this as my problem, which I am working through. People have the right to an opinion and to also to be heard. It will be a challenge for me to not delete this post.:eek:

[rjridley]

Normally I don't read threads this long, but this one was pretty enlightening. It is always interesting to see what is going on backstage at the play, and I feel like the back and forth with eNIGMA was kind of like that.

I'll be honest, I used to think that what I now know are instances of people deleting their OWN posts were instances of MODERATORS deleting those posts, and since some of the deleted posts were from members I could tell had a good reputation, I wondered what they had written that was so inappropriate.

If I think I am going to regret posting something, I try not to post it in the first place. I just recently cleaned house with my facebook page because I written a lot of notes and status messages making my inner turmoil at the time visible to people who knew me in real life, so if you all can't bear to see strangers seeing your innermost thoughts, imagine how embarassed I was when I finally realized I had made available some serious weaknesses to people who in some cases have known me my whole life. I deleted all those things because I felt like less of a man for having the experience and even less of one when I couldn't quickly move past it. I still am not completely over it, but am not full of despair like I was when I went on the writing frenzy. I probably should have been posting here at the time, but I didn't even remember I had an account here until this week.

But it is frustrating to want to be heard and not think anyone is listening, a reason that some people gave for deleting their posts. You want to know you are not the only one. There are many things I have never told people I know or people I don't know because I know better.

As far as the eNIGMA subtopic, I have been a controversial person myself in the past, usually because I hold strong political beliefs, or because I hate when people critique my actions. I take it really personally. In my case my emotions are stronger than what a man's emotions are supposed to be. I want to be able to experience my emotion and not suppress it in the name of getting over it and moving on. I have been known to condescend in person and online when someone disagreed with me.

But I wish I had some popcorn while I was reading this thread. There was some interesting back and forth.

[IrmaJean]

The reasons I listed for my deleting posts were merely my own personal reasons. Silence is painful to me, though I recognize that certainly isn't the case for everyone. The "silence" thing has everything to do with my past, so it's part of my stuff. I don't think I've ever deleted anything I've written because I felt was inappropriate, but rather because I felt embarrassed by revealing myself and remaining unacknowledged. One of the neat aspects of interrelating, which even occurs on internet message boards apparently, is that one can look at one's own behavior and learn. So before I delete now, I can take a look inside the uncomfortable feelings and know they don't necessarily represent what has happened here, but are more about discomfort from the past. I can then remind myself that these feelings are based on beliefs I've had about myself that had to do with uncontrollable circumstances from my childhood. I've been mostly able to stop myself from deleting now, but not always...and therein lies the challenge. Being a moderator doesn't mean I don't have moments of self-doubt at times. I'm still a work in progress.

[Endlessnight]

I have deleted a few posts of my own. My reasons were very much the same as IrmaJean's, which she explained so well:

Being open is difficult. Sometimes I can't bear to hear the silence when I wish so very much to connect with others. It is deeply painful. That is a thing with me, that goes beyond deleting posts on a message board.

I don't think I've ever deleted anything I've written because I felt was inappropriate, but rather because I felt embarrassed by revealing myself and remaining unacknowledged.

Since I am unable to connect or be honest about my problems with anyone in real life I am trying to do so on here. It can be very painful though, and, after years of keeping my real feelings hidden, it is difficult for me to put my feelings 'out there' for all to see, especially if, as IrmaJean said, what I wrote goes unacknowedged.

(After writing this I debated on deleting it or not because I felt so vulnerable, but I decided not to.)

[Guest GingerSnap]

Want to remind all that sometimes a post just slips away because of the volume coming but I have to admit that if I see a post that has a lot of views and no one has replied, I try to read it and make a comment if I can and that "bumps" it back up to the top and it gets more activity at that point. I know from experience how it feels when you see a bunch of views and no one says anything "It is as horrible as I thought!":eek: If I thought someone was being unfair, I would pm them or someone if it really bothered me. I actually pm someone with "OK, I Have To Say This To Someone" sort of title so as to spare someone's feeling but not explode myself.

[IntoxicatedFrog]

Why would anybody want to keep words alive if there's no one around to read them? No one suitable, mind you. The sheeple won't be impressed by opinions which would require using that limp herbivore brain of theirs. Amusing to see that the so called intellectual giant, mankind, fails at using it's greatest weapon and advantage but acts upon the slightest emotional impulse instead.

[Luna-]

Hi IF

Love that word - sheeple.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Intoxicatedfrog and all,

Words are alive and, add to that the fact that the Internet is timeless, sooner or later all of these words will be read and will be responded to. That is one reason why its important to not delete. In fact, people delete because they know their words are alive and they know their words will be read.

Allan:)

[spiritual_emergency]

In the aftermath of my experience, there was a time when I would delete most every post I made. Sometimes I would delete them right away because I felt too exposed, too vulnerable. Othertimes, I would delete all my posts before I left a place. Usually, I'd leave because, once more, I felt too exposed and vulnerable but my desire to delete was mixed up in my desire to not leave a trace of myself behind.

Then, for a while, I noticed I was most comfortable participating at sites that had only limited storage space -- no archives. In those cases, you didn't have to delete anything because once the message board had reached its capacity anything beyond the limit would disappear, as if it had fallen off the edge and vanished into the ethers. I was in a process of coming to terms with letting go of some things at that time and investing an incredible amount of time to create a beautiful post, with well chosen words, images and music... and then letting it all go... that had a productive feel to it. It felt like growth.

Occasionally, I will see deletions from other people and I usually assume that like me, they felt they said something that felt too personal and private. I've never objected to the idea that they should be able to take that part of themselves back into themselves.

The only time I have ever objected to deletions is when people would say nasty things about someone, delete that post, and then pretend they had never done such things. To me, that felt like a lie and a manipulation.

It's very rare these days that I delete my own words but I do reserve the right to do so. Recently, I deleted a portion of a post I'd made that referenced my own experience. After putting it out there it felt like it should be more private, so I returned it to private space.

[IntoxicatedFrog]

Intoxicatedfrog and all,

Words are alive and, add to that the fact that the Internet is timeless, sooner or later all of these words will be read and will be responded to. That is one reason why its important to not delete. In fact, people delete because they know their words are alive and they know their words will be read.

Allan:)

God save us all if all words on the internet will be seen and replied to sooner or later. Enormous quantity of stupidity gets thrown up into the virtual world, reading even just a small percentage of it will make you claw out your eyes and pray for the end of mankind. Let's not even mention the whole thing.

Sometimes people delete their posts because they realise how futile was it to even type them down. Not because no one replies, but because those who do are the overly emotional lambs.

[malign]

It's always difficult for me to reply to you, I.F., because you've already identified that Mr. Frog is only a part of you, and I'd like to address you all, if I could. It also makes it difficult to identify which part of you is speaking, which further complicates responses.

I'm going to venture that it is Mr. Frog, mostly, who writes about emotional people as sheep or lambs. What's mildly amusing is that it was _he_ who couldn't resist replying, in this case.

I agree that a great deal of what's written on the internet is a waste of time, but I rarely find that, here. Even posts that contain factual errors and wildly swinging emotions have value: they speak about the state of the writer. It's not that the content of each post is earth-shattering, but that the humanity that went into making the post is valuable in itself.

And yes, by replying, I expose myself gladly to Mr. Frog's judgment that I might be overly emotional or even excessively wooly. Because I hear where he's coming from, too.

[ChasingDreams]

Hi:)

I just came across this topic and find it very interesting. I don't tend to delete things I post online, especially if someone has replied to it, but my boyfriend does and it has really been bothering me and making me wonder what is going on in his head. Your responses have given me some insight into what would cause a person to do that.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi,

Thank you for your comment about this issue. It is also possible that your boyfriend deleted his messages because he regretted saying the things he wrote because he thought they may have been too angry or feared that he would be misunderstood.

What do others think?

Allan:)

[kaudio]

I haven't deleted my own posts yet. Even though the option is handy, I think I represent ideas when I post. There were a handful of times when I came across my previous posts and realized that I made very little sense. But, even then, I didn't delete them. For those posts, I am sorry to those who must have read them and wondered what I was trying to say in the first place.

When I see other members delete their own posts, I often wondered why myself. Was it out of spite? Now, I see that posts are not always deleted out of spite. There are other concerns involved.