Deletions, A Discussion

[Guest ASchwartz]

I have noticed on several occasions that community members delete messages they have posted. It has gotten me to thinking that the presence of a deletion (it clearly shows up in the forums) conveys unspoken messages that other members react to and interpret in their own ways.

Because the deletions impact the community I am asking everyone to engage in a discussion of what the deletion means to you, how do you interpret it when you see it, how does it make you feel, what do you think when you first become aware of it, and what do you believe are some of the reasons for people deleting messages?

Is it possible, once we understand some of the reasons for deletions, to stop ourselves from doing it?

Because human communication is fragile at best, and postings and E. Mails are even more fragile, it is easy to misunderstand what I am suggesting. In no way is this a "blame," and, in now way is this meant to be a criticism. It is simply a piece of human behavior that I think the community needs to discuss and understand.

So, what do you think???

[IrmaJean]

Nine times out of ten, I delete messages because I've expressed a deep thought or feeling which is personal to me and have been left out there hanging. It feels a bit like my heart is laying out there on the world wide web and my voice went unheard. So basically feeling exposed and then not validated...This causes feelings of discomfort for having "overrevealed". I deleted most of my posts from my original thread about my experience in therapy with my therapist because I felt as if I should respect his privacy and the privacy of what we shared in the room as therapist and client.

Seeing other deleted threads has no negative impact on me. It's a reminder that we're all human and sometimes we say things we wish we hadn't.

[LaLa]

Hello,

I deleted some parts of two of my posts and I explained it already in the thread, but... as this thread here should reveal more about the reasons, I'm going to try to be more open now:

I was thinking: Nobody would be interested in these too long descriptions of my feelings, the therad should be informative and not overfilled by my unimportant descriptions which are not relevant to the main topic. I can't conceal now that... I also felt too uninteresting and... didn't wanted to waste readers' time by this all. In my therad, the answers of ohters to my question have mattered, so I wanted them to "surpass" and not to "sink" somehow in my own babblement.

I think that's all.

Thanks for this interesting topic!

[Guest ASchwartz]

LaLa and all,

Wow, it is terrific that you can now admit the reasons why your deleted a couple of your messages. I wonder how many of you felt the same way, whether you deleted or not and what some of the other reasons for deletions might exist.

Lets hear from all of you, whether you have deleted or not, you may have felt like deleting and/or had reactions to seeing the deletion.

Allan:)

[smallstar]

..........

[Luna-]

From the Moon: perhaps I should let IrmaJean speak here, but I think she meant that when she deletes something, nine out of ten times it is because of... not that she deletes nine posts out of ten. Do I have it right, IrmaJean? Otherwise I might recommend you see a psychiatrist for Compulsive Posting Disorder, with associated deletion features.

I delete my posts only if there has been a furore over therm and someone has viewed them as offensive. I do edit a lot, mostly because I am a perfectionist about spelling, grammar and punctuation. And sometimes when I'm hypomanic I either go off the deep end a bit or write out reams of tangents that make sense to me, but not to anyone else - I try to go back and take out what isn't relevant. Unless I think it's brilliantly witty and if I think that, then the hypomania is likely escalating to mania.

I get very curious when a post has been deleted and speculate about what might have been written.

[Catmom]

I have never deleted one of my own posts. I guess I figure that whatever I write is out there for better or worse & deleting it won't make any difference.

When other people delete their posts, I usually interpret it as a lack of trust or often anger on the deleting poster's part. For me, it can detract from my ability to connect (albeit in cyberspace) with the person who did the deletion.

Good topic, Allan! :cool:

Catmom

[IrmaJean]

Yes, that's what I meant.

Also...

Please know that this does not need to be translated into that we may not care or that you are not important. Could it also be bothering you when you get responses you would rather not hear?

The "you are not important" was the basis of my original low sense of self-worth. It is something that I still fight with at times, even when I know that seed was originally planted by life circumstances that were beyond everyone's control. As far as getting responses I'd want to hear...I'd much rather hear something than nothing. Silence in this is quite painful.

[malign]

Personally, I've never deleted something I've written here. I feel that if it was worth pressing 'Submit' on, then it records my state of mind, at some point in time. If I change my mind later, then I post that, too. If someone gets offended, or objects to what I said, then I may counter it or apologize in a subsequent post. I try not to edit, either, except for trivial grammatical things that might make the post more difficult to understand. Or sometimes, I add a substantive new thought, but I mark the edit so that people who might have read it before the change can understand what happened.

As for when others delete, I don't feel anger, or worry, too much. Mostly, I feel a little sad, because that information, the attitude or feeling, is gone. Quite often, people have already replied, and the context of their reply is lost. In fact, quite often, it's because someone wrote a particularly good reply that the original poster deletes the thought, thinking it's somehow "wrong" to have thought it. Minds change all the time; that's part of their beauty. :-)

However, I wouldn't stop someone from deleting, though I often advise against it. I'll even help, if they need it. Paranoia, fear, embarrassment ... are all real feelings, even if I think the person doesn't need to feel them. I might just reassure them that there's nothing to fear, or that I've said much worse myself, at some point. ;-)

[notmary]

I have deleted a couple of times and when I have done it, it is because it is too painful, embarassing or leaves me feeling too vulnerable for me to leave the message. I haven't thought about how others respond to it because I did it for my state of mind. When I see others have deleted something, I have assumed that it was for the same reason. Even though there is the anonymous part of the internet that is appealing to me, the fact that everyone can read something that I am trying to face on my own sometimes becomes overpowering and I need to delete in order to feel "safe."

I apologize if this leaves others insulted or angered. I will try not to post things that might leave me feeling this way.

[IrmaJean]

I hope you don't hesitate to post, notmary. It's better to have expressed something at least to get it out...for yourself. Sometimes putting the thought into words can help process the feelings around it.

Being open is difficult. Sometimes I can't bear to hear the silence when I wish so very much to connect with others. It is deeply painful. That is a thing with me, that goes beyond deleting posts on a message board. So the act itself is symbolic and meaningful in its own way. Something for me to keep working on.

[Mark]

I'm really glad that Allan has raised this issue.

From my own perspective - people should do what they need to do, and I think we can all relate to feeling too vulnerable and needing to pull back something that we've said. When speaking out loud in a group that is impossible to do, but here in the text world, it can be done mostly (some comments live on in Google's cache for a period of time even if you delete them).

Even though I understand why people like to sometimes delete their posts, I'd like to make clear why I prefer that people don't do this. It has to do with the philosophy of making the community an open place. For every participant here there are a few lurkers, sometimes many. Lurkers in this context are people who have arrived here based on a search or via links and they want to read the content but for whatever reason are not ready to or interested in participating. That's okay. Many of the conversations here concern things that don't get much talked about in polite society, and therefore people who share the sentiments or struggle with the same issues can feel very isolated. By reading what we talk about here, they can feel connected to people and less freakish. It would be nice if they would participate, but we can't force it, and not everyone wants that. Sometimes it is enough to simply know that you're not alone.

Deletions make it harder to follow discussions here, and that can be disorienting for lurkers who come on discussions and then have difficulty making sense of them.

Let me be clear - I'm first and formost interested in all participants here having a good experience, and if that means that some people need to delete stuff sometimes, that's perfectly okay. We don't owe the lurkers anything in particular. However, to the extent that you want to support the "silent masses", one way to help do it is to preserve the record of what is said here, particularly when it involves deeply felt issues that many struggle with.

Mark

[mscat]

I deleted what I wrote just recently. Moreso because , to me it had no value .

[Jetliner]

..........

[IrmaJean]

It is also reassuring to know that it's okay to make mistakes sometimes and one can start over again if you make them. It's probably in part also due to being an emotional person, heart ruling over head at times. In the same respect, during those emotional moments, the best of me often comes out.

[Jetliner]

..........

[IrmaJean]

There is no need to worry about me with credit cards. I am very frugal.

I wouldn't say I post impulsively. I just sometimes become emotional and maybe put my heart out there a bit too much. It's a need to be heard, understood and to connect with others that sometimes backfires. I don't often delete when I'm communicating with a board member about their difficulties. It happens during moments of self-expression. I would hate to feel inhibited in that respect. Been there and done that for most of my life. I'm taking risks when I do it and hoping that someone will hear me. I like having that option, though. I will try not to post anything in the future that might be risky in that sense.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hi Mscat, Notmary and all,

As I am reading your posts a thought popped into my head (not an easy thing because my head is granite ), is it possible that one explanation for deleting some posts is a lack of confidence in one's own self? For example, Mscat said, she thought that one post of her's, in her opinion, "had no value."

Do any of you have that thought sometimes and what might that say about self esteem? Again, just a question and food for thought.

Also, Notmary, when you have deleted it does not make us angry. I am not aware of anyone being angry with you about anything. Please, please, feel reassured about that.

What does everyone think and what are your experiences?

Allan:)

[IrmaJean]

The deleting is about lack of self-confidence with me, but posting about such things also means that I'm trying.

[LaLa]

I was thinking about Allan's question about self-esteem, but... it only led me to another question, or even several questions (which I have in mind at least since I'm in therapy):

Therapists often try to increase our self-esteem. They surely have good reasons for it, but... where are the limits? Which self-esteem is too low, which is too high? Isn't it better to be a little bit more cautious than to be too risky?

I had a fear when I started therapy: "What if I become the other extreem?! Everybody says I have a too low self-esteem [and I claimed I had none ] and when the therapist will try to change it, it might switch to the other, even much worse, extreem! I don't want this at all!!!" I don't fear this so much now, but... I still don't know how to set my personal "limits".

Now I'm laughting a bit, because I was just thinking: "Now I schould delete this post, because it's absolutely out of topic!" But... as this thread is trying to convince us that it's better not to delete, I keep it here

L.

[malign]

To me, learning "correct" self esteem means getting in touch with something inside of oneself. That something knows that we're all special, unique; it knows what our strengths and our weaknesses are, and accepts them both.

From there, self esteem is natural and self-regulating. Because that something inside also recognizes the value of everybody else, as well.

Those other, unregulated, self esteem levels, both too high and too low, come from trying to determine our worth by measuring against external things. So, my suggestion is, rather than trying to set your self esteem "limits", try to find the center. :-)

I had the same fear, going into therapy. I had always had an image of a self-centered, overbearing egotist, that I tried desperately to avoid. I was afraid that I would unwittingly turn into that person, unless I worked very hard to stop myself. So, I questioned everything about myself, "just in case". I spent an incredible amount of time on this, so obviously, I found more things I didn't like than ones that I did.

I just wish I could describe how I changed ... I think I became aware of my center by having to go to that center repeatedly, in order to feel what people here were telling me. And in the process, I found what I didn't even know I needed.

And yes, I'm shamelessly helping you hijack Allan's thread, because this has nothing to do with deleting. Well, unless it does. :-)

[LaLa]

Thank you, Mark, for your valuable insights and kind words... :) They make me feel very good. I hope I'm not the only one

L.

[IrmaJean]

Yes, Mark is very good at making me feel good too. Thanks, Mark.

Okay then. I've had my meltdown and am now ready to take on this challenge. I'm going to freely be my emotional, sentimental, sappy self and leave all of my posts...even when there is silence. This will be difficult. Challenges are good, though. I like challenges.

[danni]

Mark, I don't think you are hijacking Allens post at all because I think it all falls into the reason people delete.

I've only done it a couple of times but it's usually at those times when the filter between my brain and my mouth is malfunctioning :eek:

I would venture a guess that many posts are deleted because we become afraid of the vulnerability or depth of emotion that we left hanging there. I can't say for certain...just a thought.

And IrmaJean......Your sappy sentimental self is a positive thing....don't go editing that

[Luna-]

Let those cute puppies and cuddly kittens out, Beth, we wanna play wif 'em.... Well I only delete things when I'm manic or when I'm repeating myself - or have I said that already? Or was it the other way around?