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Welcome - feel free to talk about feelings that have to do with Virginity


Mark
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Welcome to a Virginity forum.

This is being created this evening in response to a comment made out on an advice question on the "Main Site" from 2005 titled "26 year old virgin". Though the advice is from 2005 - the comment quoted below is from July, 2010 (e.g, very recently)

"Hey, guys (and gals)...I am also a male virgin @ 26. It never really hit me until I turned 23, that I'm a little bit behind in the game. However, we're all really fortunate to have this site to talk about how we feel and stuff. I just was reading through some of the posts and nearly all of us are virtually describing the same thing...fear of intimacy, afraid of what others think. I feel, as others had mentioned we should start talking about this with each other, exchanging e-mails, and getting to know each other; where we can feel more comfortable. Maybe virgins feel more comfortable with virgins, which may be the key to losing your virginity, who knows? I know that I would rather talk to someone who knows how I feel. It's not even about sex anymore, it's really about not being alone when going to the movies, or the beach or attending a family function and everyone's wondering, where your date is? It may seem strange, but I too, think I lack love at times? It's like I'm starting to percieve relationships as baggage and a waste of my time and energy? Am I becoming bitter? I don't know. I am tired of being alone. I hope this helps those of you feel a little better, and that we're never alone!!! Never know what tomorrow brings us."

I hope this can be a place where such a community as this guy wishes to participate in takes hold.

In this place, feel free to talk about:

- feeling like a 40 Year Old Virgin => someone who is acutely and painfully aware that they are supposed to have had sex already and who are developmentally behind their peers in this regard but feel helpless to do anything about it.

- strong pressures people might feel subject to which require one to maintain (or regain!) virginity

- etc.

However, "Please keep it clean". This is a SENSITIVE TOPIC in that it is highly sexual. We will be enforcing the "no graphic language or descriptions" rule so as to keep this place focused on the *emotions* surrounding virginity, rather than on the subject of sex itself.

Mark

Edited by Mark
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Hello, Mark,

I don't know if I "can" reply to this post, but... well... I'd just like to comment that I think this is a good idea, so: Thanks for this new forum :)

But I have also two "negative feelings" about it:

- I'm sorry that it's a reaction to a post from 2005 - thus this guy, thanks to whom we have this particular forum, will obviously not get advantage from it :(

- I "can't imagine" to participate here because... I don't feel safe enought to discuss some too intimate issues on the internet, even that it's anonymous, because... it's not impossible that somebody who knows me would once read it... :( Am I a coward? :confused: ... I'm writing about this concern because... as you might already guess, I have "an issue" which would fit in this forum. So there is a dilema: I'd like to somehow "help" others who have some related problems, but... I don't want to "disclose too much" here... And now I feel stupid because of writing this all, as it's already a "disclosure"! Oh... :-(

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Guest ASchwartz

LaLa and Everyone,

LaLa, you have not disclosed anything about yourself other than that you wish to not disclose anything.

In a society that puts so much emphasis on sex, it is difficult for people to feel comfortable if they are virgins.

Please keep in mind, everyone, that this is a complex issue that often can have more to do with fears of the opposite sex, problems with relationships, etc, than anything else.

Please feel free to post.

Allan

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Well, okay, let me start. I've told the story before, but it's relevant.

I was a virgin on my 40th birthday. For a very long time, I resisted seeing the movie. When I did, I found it to be a fairly sensitive view of the subject, though not, perhaps, a great movie.

I wasn't religious, or waiting for marriage, necessarily. I suspect that the major factors, for me, were anxiety and caution, that made me keep to myself, and unrealistic expectations. I did ask women out, on rare occasions, and even dated one or two for a period of time. I just couldn't bring myself to "make a move". Or I never let myself know them, or them know me, enough to want to. Something like that, anyway.

When I did finally allow it to happen, I got lost in the unrealistic expectations that I mentioned before. Even though I still wasn't relating to this woman on a very deep level, emotionally, I felt that we were destined to be together, simply because I had managed to get past my block about sex. I also wanted a family, far more than I realized at the time, and she had a 12-year-old son and a grown daughter.

We married a few months later, before I turned 41. It was a tempestuous and unhappy marriage, based as it was on me lying to myself, regardless of what her reasons were. Anyway, I don't recommend marrying the first person you sleep with, put it that way, unless you can feel that it's the match for you. Or any other person, for that matter: don't let yourself fool you into years of suffering.

On the other hand, if you do find someone you care about with your whole self, don't let them go without letting them know. Life is awfully darn short.

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Thanks for sharing your story, Malign. I'm sorry that the marriage didn't work out for you. You seem to me to be a very kind, sensitive and caring person and you deserve to be with someone who treats you respectfully too. Do you think perhaps you were fearful of becoming close and that may be why you avoided intimacy? If you feel comfortable sharing, that is.

The first person I was with has been the only person I've been with. Sometimes it works out.

LaLa, we'll be here to support and listen if you'd like to share more about this.

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I should clarify that while the advice question that prompted this new forum dates from 2005, the fellow who I quoted had posted a comment to that advice question/essay that very day (yesterday). So it is quite a current need.

If you look at that 2005 question, you will see that an impromptu forum has formed there with people posting comments at the base of the essay, and a number of them have talked about wishing there was a place where they could talk in a more systematic manner. So - reading that last night - I thought we could offer that for them here.

This is an incredibly awkward and difficult subject to talk about. There's heaps of shame that get associated with it. So I think - some people will want to talk about it and that is great, but others will want other people to talk about it while lurking themselves (as it is too painful to talk about directly). Lurking is okay too; sometimes that is the only way people feel comfortable participating, but it is still participating (even if it is not interactive).

Edited by Mark
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Hmmm just wondering about the timing of such a thread starter?

As everyone knows there have been several issues, threads and members that have been controversial over the last month or so. And, I would have to think this thread might become one of them that might put moderators in an awkward situation of knowing someones "opinion" to someones ignorant feelings and chancing the triggering mechanism to members.

I would like to know why at this time a controversial "virginity" thread would be started when there are clearly many other issues that members would love or need to discuss in a new thread with Mark, David or Allan.

Just my thoughts here and about the virginity topic? -:)

Edited by Lindamomof7
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Guest SomethingOrOther

What will or will not happen is always an interesting thing to find out, isn’t it?

I am mildly disgruntled by the notion that this issue isn’t important enough.

More so, as the comments certainly demonstrate a need not to feel like the last, most deficient person on earth, which is how I felt about it for a pretty long time. And that did not really help matters, obviously.

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Mark; thanks for the clarification. I'm sorry I didn't check if I was right (with the year...) :o

Allan; I can't agree that I <<have not disclosed anything about myself>> (here) (as I've already mentioned that "I have an issue of this kind"). And that's why I'm going to write more, because... it seems worst to me only to "sigh/foreshadow something" than to make a clear statement.

And I'd like to explain better my problem to write about it: I really don't feel bad about writing about it to you, the members. Or the "guests" who'd like to read about these issues. My only fear is that somebody who knows me would get here and identify me. You know; especially having in mind the recent awful problem of Jetliner... it's too difficult to share too intimate issues here... :)

Well, but; OK. I think that overcoming this fear in my case could be perhaps a motivation for others who need to "talk" about it (?).

So... "the surprise is comming" :P: I don't have the problem that "I'm still a virgin", I only think I could be hopefully somehow supportive to somebody here, because... Well... "it happened" this year (I was 27), almost one year after my marriage, though we'd been together for 9 years before getting married. The only problem was my fear. And what hepled me? My therapist, of course (don't understand it badly: it wasn't by any physical contact :o (sorry for this stupid humor!!!))...

So. That's it. Let's hope anybody who knows me will not read it...

P.S.: Oh; this is so funny! I've written this and tried to post it and the internet connection failed!!! Maybe that's a sigh that I shouldn't post it... OMG - how to decide??? Now, when I have more time for the decision!

So... in the meantime; I will comment on Linda's post: Mark explained very clearly the reasons for this new forum and the timing. I don't think that the experience with some triggering posts and banned members could have a negative impact on this new forum. On the contrary: We all here are now somehow "more aware" (thanks to the threads about this topic - David's explanations about "triggering" and "abusive" posts seemed the most important to me) and this is an advantage.

Edited by LaLa3
extension of the text...
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I have created this forum because I believe it will serve an important need. the need I perceived was not one expressed by the people who were already here participating in this community. It was a need expressed by people who have never heard of this community, but who were commenting on the advice article from 2005. They needed a place, just like the SPS guys needed a place. So I created a place.

It had not occurred to me that anyone here would experience an "us vs. them" feeling, but now that I think about it, I guess that is reasonable enough. This place has felt unsettled what with the recent blowups (lifeless v. David O for example, or pedophile/enigma), and adding this new area - which addresses another charged area for many - may feel like fuel for the fire that should be treated with water. If this is how this new forum has felt, my apologies.

Most of the people who responded to the 2005 advice/essay were not talking about having been victims of pedophila. I suspect they're mostly people who feel socially awkward and shy and anxious. So if they ever decide to show up here and talk, I doubt their talk will feel especially threatening in of itself. For those who have been raped/incested the topic holds a quite different significance. I'm not sure how to handle that sensitivity just now, but I believe that simply because the topic is difficult for some to bear (very difficult), that should not have to preclude others who do want to talk about this topic from doing so. We're not talking about the promotion of pedophila or anything evil like that. We're talking about people who by and large are caught between a rock (the sex drive) and a hard place (social anxiety, lack of self-esteem, poor confidence).

While the timing may not be so great, I hope people here will consider that this topic has *merit* and is associated with a lot of human suffering which perhaps can be alleviated somewhat if we talk about it in a safe way (Note the no sex talk rule which will need to be enforced here). This is a place to talk about the *emotions* about virginity; not sex or the lack thereof itself.

I hope that we can allow for new areas of discussion and new members who we have not yet met even when we aren't feeling so good as a collective group.

Mark

Edited by Mark
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LaLa, we'll be here to support and listen if you'd like to share more about this.

I'm sorry :P, I forgot to say: Thank you , you're kind as always :o

But I don't feel a need for support in this particular issue. I would rather prefere to give support to somebody else in a similar situation that the one I used to be in.

L.

Edited by LaLa3
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Guest SomethingOrOther

LaLa, I think that’s a nice „surprise“ :) and it’s good to hear that this fear doesn’t have to knock a relationship out. When I think about my past (God, I’m, so old), I think I was often so scared of expectations and being hurt physically or emotionally, that I was rather motivated to simply stay clear of the whole issue. Although, another reason I stayed clear of the issue is that I tend to be attracted to older boys/men, whom I can admire from a safety distance for a while, to then find out that they are not interested in me... and then there is personal unattractiveness and not touching alcohol as a teenager and such things.. but I assume that would go a bit off topic.

However, I think I only ever dated one person I didn’t know beforehand and we watched a boring movie and had dinner at his place on the second date and then.. I think I went crazy with the idea that there was no further plans and there also was a bedroom, so I left early in more or less orderly full flight. We never met again, but that was ok for me, because I had been so busy being nervous, I have no idea if I would have liked him anyway.

And I actually still have no idea how I’m supposed to know what I think, when I’m really nervous.. quite possibly because I then don’t.. erm.. think. ;)

Edited by SomethingOrOther
"berserk" implies anger, I guess.
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I think (and it’s probably obvious) that movies show too often people who “jump right into bed” (after a short time they know each other) and so “everybody” supposes that (i) “that’s normal” and (ii) everybody else considers it as normal, so they have a fear of rejection by the potential partner if they don’t want to “go that way”.

There is a thread somewhere in the “new members” forum, where I explained to a boy that he’s not the only one who would like to first become close friends with a girl, and only then become closer also physically.

This would be my general advice for those who struggle with any fear related to intimacy and/or the topic of this thread: Firstly get closer emotionally, become close friends, talk about your fear and when you feel accepted, understood, then it will be much easier to learn to overcome the fear. I know; it implies to have “the right” partner. And, obviously, I can’t have any advice how to find him/her :).

Now more about myself: My first problem was a fear of getting pregnant. (Now I know it’s a “diagnosis” – a type of phobia.) So we avoided activities with any risk of this kind. But... then I identified also other anxieties and these were a bigger problem. It’s not that we “didn’t try”. We did (after getting married – because I supposed that this will “erase” my anxiety of becoming pregnant (Ha!)), but every time I was too anxious (since he began to try) to be able... (you know)

I also should say that my anxiety was an advantage in the beginning! Yes, really! Because it took me a longer time (than to the majority) to “get closer”, thus we had much more time to enjoy (!) every little step! So we had a “hugging period”, then a “kissing period” and so on – by little steps (we “were doing many things, we only omitted the only one” (I don’t want to be descriptive/explicit)). I’m sure it can’t be enjoyed so much when it happens “all at once”! So you can describe this option to the one you will be dating and I’m sure that by little steps it will nicely go towards “the final step”. But I would never recommend delaying it for so long as I did! I was “a special case”. I was stupid because I never considered getting help. I even didn’t want to tell my therapist about this problem (in the beginning). And I think all the years made it all more difficult to “repair”.

Edited by LaLa3
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SomethingOrOther, thanks to your post, I realized that the main key word of this topic is expectations. That's the crucial part of this all...

But I don't understand your problem with expectations. Wouldn't you like to clarify it a bit?

I was often so scared of expectations

Does it mean that: 1. you expect it to be somehow "bad/scary" (by any way), thus your expectations are negative, so you're anxious, or 2. you think you have too big (positives) expectetions and assume they will not be met/fulfilled, or 3. you suppose the partner has too big expectations from you which you would not be able to meet/fulfill?

P.S.:

I tend to be attracted to older boys/men

I know this... (I supposed my therapist (in the beginning) to be "for me too old to fall in love with :D", but then... Well, I'm not "in love", but... "my transference" is sometimes very positive :o What's funny; I supposed him to be about 45, but some months later, I learned he's 55 and, despite of it, he didn't/doesn't seem "too old" to me at all :D) ... It's (also) very probably related to my "father issue" (or paternal deprivation, I should say)... But my husband is the same age as me and I'm very glad that it's so!!!

Edited by LaLa3
added PS
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Guest SomethingOrOther

Well, I suppose I had various expectations :D :D

But in the case I mentioned I probably thought he'd expect something to happen now and then I would have to reject that and that would have made me feel really uncomfortable, because I didn't want to explain that I'm unexperienced, that would be uncool and I don't even know him well and anyhow what are we going to do instead, because I've already not known what to talk about for a long while, it's not really easy to talk about a boring movie all that much and I am not the least interested in motorbikes and I brought the wrong shoes to have a walk. So it's all going to be very embarrassing and that would be my fault, because I can't even have FUN and I probably sent out the wrong signals and anyway shouldn't I have known that I wouldn't like him, before we met? That was very inconsiderate of me. And he's friends with L and L sleeps with any... damn what was I thinking?

something like that. I'm making fun, but that doesn't mean it's not true. :D

PS: how is 55 too old? :o That's why I choose female therapists... which might not be clever, because my mother is the one who failed to accept for a long time that my father is an alcoholic.. but you know.. life.

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didn't want to explain that I'm unexperienced, that would be uncool and I don't even know him well

So why not to say that the reason of the rejection is that you don't know him well, instead of mentioning that "you're unexperienced"? If it's a kind of man that don't "accept" such an explanation, then why to feel bad about loosing him?

anyway shouldn't I have known that I wouldn't like him, before we met?

How to know it in advance? :P Well, but... I mean: maybe you're in general attracted to "the kind of men that are not good for you". It happens. To recognize this "pattern" and understand it's reason is the basis for "improovement" of your preferences. I hope so much you'll once get a really good therapy; it can help with this issues as well.

That's why I choose female therapists... which might not be clever, because my mother is the one who failed to accept for a long time that my father is an alcoholic.

It seems to me (and I've also read it somewhere) that it's somehow "predetermined" if we choose a male or female therapist. It depends on our deep needs. So... if it seems to you, without any rationnal reasoning, you'd like to have a man as your therapist, then don't care about any fears of falling in love with him or so! (I can give you - yes, even in this case! - my own example: I was afraid of falling in love with my therapist even long time before I've decided to see one. But I was feeling all the time, that I couldn't "accept" a woman as my therapist. I didn't explained this need by my paternal deprivation; I only knew I can't be so very open to any woman. So, regardless of my fear of falling in love, I've chosen a man - and I never regretted this choice! And yes, after some months, the "redoubtable" :P attraction appeared (and, by the way, these days it seems it's already disappeared!). But I'm very thankful for it! Really! It has learned me a lot about myself. It has been also so very pleasant (for some reasons related to my teenage...) to feel that he is able to "accept" my feelings! For me, fortunately, there has never been a pain of "not having the possibility to act upon my feelings towards him". But I know this pain is a part of therapy of many people. I can imagine it has to be cruel, but... sometimes it has to be cruel to reach a great aim. The aim is improoving your life, to a huge extend. So; the "take home message": Even the fear of "falling in love" with a therapist shouldn't be the reason for chosing a woman in case you feel you'd like a man.)

As far as I know, it's better to have a male therapist if you have some problems related to your father, and thus to men in general (as in also my case...) (if it's not about an abuse - people say that many of the victimes af an abuse feel much better with a female therapist - but I know at least one exception.), and a female therapist if you have some kinds of problems related to women. But... in your case it seems you have both (Ha! We probably all do! :rolleyes:). So... I'd recommend you to decide according to your "uncensored" feeling, which problems are more related to the reason why you'd like to be in therapy. (Isn't it more important that your dad is an alcoholic and that you have problems with relationships with boys? Sorry; I don't want to persuade you; I only describe my assumption.)

P.S.:

how is 55 too old?

Now I really don't know! :P But before, I was attrated to men who were mostly about 40, so... I was naive... ;-P

Edited by LaLa3
I changed some parts of the text
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Guest SomethingOrOther

I feel a lot better about the whole idea of sex since I got to know someone later who would have accepted me. It’s going to sound really strange, when I add „in theory“ to that sentence, but sometimes things just are a bit (that means very) odd. It’s not my fault and I don’t want to go into detail. Again. I just try to keep that feeling, because it helped.

Anyway. The point with that date was that I was embarrassed and I panicked, not that he was a bad guy or even „old“ ;). I didn’t want to get into a situation where I would have to say: „wait a sec, now that is a bit rushed.“ Hell, I didn’t even want to be asked what I think about him. It all seemed absurdly complicated. In hindsight the location was badly chosen and I think I left in a so determined way that it maybe was a bit cruel, but as it happens my memory is also quite bad and it deleted every certainty about details.

Think I’ll maybe comment on therapist genders in the other thread later.

Goodnight.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Hmmm just wondering about the timing of such a thread starter?

As everyone knows there have been several issues, threads and members that have been controversial over the last month or so. And, I would have to think this thread might become one of them that might put moderators in an awkward situation of knowing someones "opinion" to someones ignorant feelings and chancing the triggering mechanism to members.

I would like to know why at this time a controversial "virginity" thread would be started when there are clearly many other issues that members would love or need to discuss in a new thread with Mark, David or Allan.

Just my thoughts here and about the virginity topic? -:(

Sex drive is just as normal and natural as the drive to eat food or drink water. One of the reasons I have never fully committed to the religion I was raised in is that I do not agree with saying no to premarital sex. But think about it. I was raised in Christianity. I don't remember where, but there is a passage in one of Paul's epistles where he says he would prefer that all Christians take a lifetime vow of celibacy, like priests, nuns, and monks do. He actually said that sex within the bounds of marriage is a concession to the recognition that people want to and will have sex, but that God only approves of sex within marriage. So imagine, it is possible that someone who wanted to convert to Christianity would have had to completely swear off sex as if it were a vice like alcohol and drugs.

Regardless of one's religious belief, they think about sex. If they practice one of the faiths that says you can only have sex within marriage, they will have guilt if they don't wait (which is another topic) or they will start to develop feelings of despair and hopelessness if they reach a certain age and haven't been married yet.

I agree with the decision to talk about virginity because sexuality (or lack of it) affects people's mental health. Particularly if you are a man who has had little or no sex, and feels like there is nothing you can do about it.

Men who are serious about their faith may try to force a relationship with a woman into a marriage with no hope of surviving just to get some sex. Some women who are saving themselves for marriage could possibly fall prey to a man who will lie about being in love with her, convince her to marry him, only so that he can have sex with her, and it's a marriage with no chance of surviving.

I haven't been keeping up with all the threads to know who is controversial. But I do know as long as it's tasteful, there is room to talk about sex and lack thereof, because especially with men, one of the things we tie our self worth to is how much sex we can get with women we want.

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  • 2 months later...

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