Nice one

[IrmaJean]

Hi Calla. It sounds as though you are feeling angry, hurt and misunderstood. I'm sorry things are so hard right now. I sure don't want you to hurt. I'm sorry that you have been feeling misunderstood here on the site. Sometimes when there is a large group of people interacting these types of things can happen. Maybe we can all learn from this? I hope that you will stay and we can all work through this.

How are your medications working? Have you been feeling any better?

[Calla]

I am angry and hurt. I'm angry because people keep making very definite statements about how I feel about people or what my intentions are behind statements and they are mind reading and getting it very wrong.

And I am hurt because people are now throwing my honesty back in my face. And by that I mean my honesty about not having any real friends. It's happened several times now. But the truth is I don't have friends because I had a big group of people I "hung about" with for 15yrs. Sadly they were into all the "As" ...alcohol, aggression (not mine), affairs and then class A drugs sadly. I grew up and realised if I wanted to save myself and my liver I had to cut contact. There is obviously a longer story than that but thats the short version! Anyway I am quite shy when it comes to new people and add to that the fact some days I can only just get out of bed I haven't really made any new friends. So its hurtful to bring it up.

Anyway the medication is ok thanks. Not really working yet 2 weeks in but the side effects seem to be faded now. Our family dog died this week, last time we lost a dog I cried for days but this time I was ok....don't know if thats a good sign though! It either means I am getting stronger or I'm emotionless....I'll take the former!! Thank you for asking.

[IrmaJean]

That happens to me sometimes too, Calla, when I'm here on the boards. Some of the discussions and interactions will remind of something, strike a chord, and bring old pain back to the forefront. I'm sorry this happened to you. I know it can be upsetting and hurtful when it does. I was always pretty shy as well for most of my life, but not so much now. I doubt I'll ever be the life of the party type of person, though. I know you've mentioned going to the gym in the past. Is there any activity you might take part in which could put you in situations where you might meet some people? Have the opportunity to form new friendships? What hobbies do you have? I always find it easier to strike up conversations with those who share similar interests with me.

I'm so sorry about the family dog. It's always sad losing a pet. Are you still considering getting a dog for yourself?

I'm glad the medication side effects are tapering off. Maybe it takes longer than a few weeks to have an effect on your mood? I'm not sure....:confused: I will definitely need to learn more about medications and how they work.

Seen any more shooting stars lately? I remember one night years ago when my son and I went outside in the dark and watched a meteor shower. Very humbling and pretty sitting in the dark, watching the stars zoom by again and again.

Take care, Calla.

[Calla]

I think it can vary how long they take to work. But yeah I guess I would be lucky to have any drastic changes in just 2 weeks. Can be months. Just have to keep going I guess.

The plan with the dog has gone a bit wayside. The idea was that because I have to work away occassionally my parents would look after it when I was away. But they are so devastated right now I won't bring the subject up for a good while. And my Mum said the only plus side they can see is that they can plan holidays without worrying about dogsitters....so maybe they won't be so keen now!! I'm sure given a little while they will miss having a dog around and might persuade me to hurry up

And no shooting stars recently. There was apparently a bit of a shower a couple of weeks ago but the weather is always so horrible here the clouds get in the way. It is very humbling. I was reading about black holes today and thinking of the universes vastness is certainly a wake up to what a little part I am in it.

Hope you are well.

[Guest ASchwartz]

Calla,

Here is a quote of yours:

I am angry and hurt. I'm angry because people keep making very definite statements about how I feel about people or what my intentions are behind statements and they are mind reading and getting it very wrong.

In my opinion people are not making statements about how you feel or what your intentions are. People are making statements about feeling hurt and angry about things you have said about them.

As for you and me, you would have preferred that I PM'd you rather than publicly posting my complaint. However, your criticism of Luna was publicly posted and, yes, she felt hurt. As the manager of this community I am not going to allow attacks to happen.

You just stated that you are angry. That is fine. However, you still do not seem to understand why people have made critical comments about you. They are defending themselves against what they view about your aggression.

No one is calling you a bad person and no one is attempting to read your mind. People are attempting to help you see your own behavior and the impact it has.

Can you understand this without feeling attacked??

Allan

[Calla]

If you can never admit any fault on your own part Allan then why should I? What criticism of Luna was publicly posted then? Go on enlighten me without mind reading? I have NEVER criticised Luna publicly. Unlike people constantly berating me for things I haven't done.

I have never been aggressive, I have never said anything personal about anyone. Luna has seemingly decided I am out to criticise her and you are merely fueling the paranoia.

[Calla]

Also DO NOT talk about my "aggression" "attacks" and "behaviour" when I have done nothing except ask people to be more sensitive. This is libel in my opinion and I will not tolerate it anymore. My original request was actually mostly based around something you had done which horrified. BUT it just so happened that it followed an incident involving Luna so now everyone has decided I have a personal crusade against her. She has even stated that I don't like her and moderators, so don't tell me no one is making definite statements about me. Get your head out your bias and see things from an objective view point. I don't dislike Luna or anyone here....I dont know them, just as you all don't know me. I have people say some horrible things to me on here but no one leaps to my defence so when I accuse you of favourtism I stand by it.

And once again you are mind reading Allan because to be honest I would rather any complaint you have to say to me was in public so don't DEFINITELY state that I wanted it to be a PM. I would rather these things are said where people can see whats going on rather than feeling bullied.

So go on once again explain to me what I have done that doesn't involve mind reading and making up your own version of what I meant and who it was aimed at. This site can be insensitive at times whether intentional or not and all I asked is that people remember that. Or people take a break if they are going to make new people feel worse about themselves. If people cant handle that then quite frankly I am now past caring. The only things I have ever said on here actually stem from the fact I care...care about others especially new vulnerable people and care about myself in that I am not happy when people attack me and stand up for myself. Deal with it.

[Calla]

You know what....seeing as Allan and Luna are determined to make this into some sort of feud of me versus Luna I am going to say things from my point of view and I no longer give a stuff what anyone thinks or whether they believe me.

The fact is that the way Luna was talking to some new members recently was, in MY opinion, aggressive, hostile, out of order and upsetting. But (unlike people here who don't give a damn what they say to me) I would never have said that to Luna in public view. I also am happy to recognise that this was out of character from a usually supportive Luna. So I suggested a break from replying, because it's no good for her or new people who were feeling attacked. Something a bit more gentle in approach I felt. Something no one gives me the courtesy of.

So Allan I doubt very much you picked up on it or said anything to Luna. It is clear you have a great affection for her and that's fine and a nice thing. But I feel it is clouding your judgement. I had every right to pick up on it and point it out in a more roundabout way. And if Luna felt attacked and it stopped her upsetting others then it worked.

Telling new members they have no right to help here was an outrageous way of saying it even if it was true. They have a right to ASK and they have a right to feel hurt if they don't get a response. I stand by what I said and I am proud that I am not scared to speak my mind!

As I previously pointed out me and Luna did have a history when, again in MY opinion, she attacked me and made it clear I wasn't part of the gang because it was about "her friends" ie, I ain't one of the friends clique. But no one can see that it was upsetting for me. And I did try to make amends as I said but this was just ignored. There are 3 sides to every story, mine, yours and the truth.

[IrmaJean]

Calla, I can see that it was upsetting for you. I'm sorry that you were upset and felt ignored. I think that all of us are susceptible to being hurt sometimes. All of us have emotions and are fallible human beings. I also think when there are a group of people who care about one another, there can be disagreements and upset feelings sometimes, but that doesn't have to stop the anchor of caring. Things happen...misunderstandings, hurt feelings...and we acknowledge them and try to learn from them....and we still care about one another. All of us here are part of that caring group. That means you too, Calla. You're a board member.

Do you think...that you might feel the hurt of your perception of "not belonging" more deeply with this now because you have felt it in the past? Sometimes painful feelings can bring out an angry response. Happens to me sometimes too. I could be wrong in this...feel free to toss it aside if it doesn't fit...but I do want you to know that we hear you, we hear your pain and anger and understand that you have a need to express this.

You do belong, Calla, and you are a part of this supportive group.

[mscat]

Hi Calla,

i hope I did not upset you by my previous posts.. I hope that expressing yourself and getting this all out in the open will help you feel better and thata you can move on from this and feel better. I hope you do stay in this community because so much of what you write is helpful and good.

[truthteller]

Ok, I'm tired of beating around the bush here. The truth of the matter is that is a definite clique within this community. Time and time again we see people that are practically begging for people to please reply to their posts while threads started by those within the clique continue to receive all kinds of replies.

I use to be on here as a senior member under a different name. I started several threads in different areas with different topics. I was not part of the clique and did not receive ANY replies.

I have read Calla's thread for request for sensitivity and it began with a simple request for everyone to realize that we are all here because we are hurting and to just keep that in mind when we reply. It was turned into her being negative and critical and complaining about the moderators. However time and time again, the moderators are quick to remind us all that it is not only up to the moderators to reply to the posts but when something is said about the lack of replies, the moderators are the ones that take it as a criticism against themselves.

Get your heads out of your butts and stop denying there is favoritism.

Truth

[malign]

Hi truthteller,

I'm glad to hear your truth. I hope you can also hear mine.

Time and time again we see people that are practically begging for people to please reply to their posts while threads started by those within the clique continue to receive all kinds of replies.

Let's for the moment assume there's a clique, which I'll define as a group of people who frequently respond to posts, and are implied to favor certain posts over others. This, after all, is your basic argument.

What I'm wondering is, if such a clique exists, why don't people who don't belong to that group answer the posts that don't get replies? Basically, why can't multiple groups form, in a community as large as this?

While I do make an effort to respond to as many posts as I can, and therefore I might feel it as a criticism of my efforts for people to spend their time pointing out my failures instead of responding to those posts themselves, I can also realize that it's a huge community, now, and it's not really my personal duty to answer everyone.

So, if you define "favoritism" as "answering those posts I feel able to answer", then I freely admit my "guilt".

And I choose to take exception as a human, rather than as a moderator, to your choice of language. It is not necessary to degrade a person to request them to change their ways.

Mark (malign)

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Well, if you want the truth, the truth is: Callas post explicitly addressed the moderators and by that singled them out as a group of people who are exceptionally insensitive. It was aggressive, because it labelled people insensitive and it was pointless, because „be less insensitive“ has as much an effect as „develop a better sense of humor“.

Or is there really a part to „This site is incredibly insensitive sometimes. Particularly the moderators“ that I got entirely wrong?

[truthteller]

What I'm wondering is, if such a clique exists, why don't people who don't belong to that group answer the posts that don't get replies? Basically, why can't multiple groups form, in a community as large as this?

That is what is happening. Myself as well as others are posting on each others. However, people are also becoming frustrated and leaving the site because they feel that there is a preferred group of people and that they are outcasts.

So what I am reading into this is: Yes, we have our own group of preferred people and if we don't welcome you into it, go make your own group. Isn't that one of the things that most mentally ill people face in their lives that is so disturbing and hurtful to them? We come here to this site thinking that it will be filled with people that understand that we face this in our lives therefore expecting it won't exist here but it does. And when it does, and you are on the receiving end of being "outted" for not being part of this group, it (for me at least) can be devastating. It is telling me (in my mentally ill, sick mind) that everything that I think about myself must be true if total strangers on a site won't even talk to me. Do you not understand how harmful this can be? So no, I do not feel that having "groups" or cliques is OK on a site like this. Sure, have people that you connect with that you send your PM's to, or a special message to, but don't limit the majority of your replies to only your friends.

You suggest that instead of posting my comments and concerns that my time would be better off posting to help others. This is true and also my point as well. Everyone always finds the time to jump onto these heated threads but not always to reply to those that need their help. I have been reading this thread and have avoided posting to it for quite some time because I too felt my time was better off helping others. If even to just say "I'm hear and I'm listening".

Sorry my language offends you....was it the word "butt" that bothered you specifically? I call it like I see it.

[Calla]

It wasn't aggressive...get your facts correct. Don't second guess and tell me how I meant something. Aggressive would have involved a lot stronger language and a few choice expressions. Not simply asking people to think. I said particularly the moderators because the actions I was talking about are only open to moderators. This involved deleting someones post who had asked for help without explaining to them why. And threatening to ban someone who was clearly in pain and asking for help. Banning if breaking the rules I understand. But to say that and that alone to someone desperate is insensitive.

Be less insensitive means explaining things to people. This is a skill which is imperative if people are going to take on the task of moderators so not like having a sense of humour AT ALL. I have asked about what training is given preciously for that reason. Mods should be trained and adviced if they are going to make decisions that affect someones health and recieve criticism for it.

[Endlessnight]

Would it be possible for someone to close this thread? I don't think that 'expressing' ourselves is actually doing any good, in fact, I see it as causing much distress and uneasiness to us all. Most of the people on this forum are in pain and in need of the moderators, and in fact anyone that will listen. I don't see how singling out moderators for being 'insensitive' helps anyone. Moderators are human beings like everyone else. They hurt too.

[malign]

Truth,

I'm glad that you feel empowered by the anonymity of the internet to "call them as you see them". However, I think you can readily see that if we all were allowed the same latitude (and believe me, we all see things we wish we could "call", in life), this would quickly degenerate into a name-calling vocabulary test.

I'm fairly sure you can tell me that I'm wrong without referring to my anatomy at all.

[Luna-]

We have a lovely expression in South Africa: "picking up stompies". 'Stompies' are cigarette butts that are picked up for the little bit of tobacco left in them, so several stompies can be emptied and rolled into newspaper to make a new cigarette. That is the literal meaning. The figurative meaning is "to pick up little bits of information and then flesh out the rest, in other words embellish the little bit of information that you have and make a full story out of it". Someone who 'picked up a stompie' may have heard that Joe's wife moved out and then tell the story on as "Joe beat his wife so she moved out."

There's more than meets the eye.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

It was aggressive, because it labelled people insensitive

Do I think aggression is about how you meant things and cursing? No.

[Calla]

Labelling someone as insensitive is not aggressive. Otherwise people have been extremely aggressive to me with all their labelling. It's a subjective matter and only I know how I meant what I said. And I didn't mean it aggressively I meant it to protect people's feelings who were getting hurt.

Saying there's more than meets the eye is just going to make people paranoid Luna and unfair.

I didn't single out moderators to make them feel bad merely to make people think about what they do. As I have asked many times what training is given. I was in a rush last time but what I mean is it is also unfair on moderators to expect them to do a job such as this if they are not fully trained in how to deal with people who are suffering mental health problems because they get the flak if they make a bad judgement call. There's nothing wrong with making a mistake we are all human. But admitting that is what happened can also help, facing up to our flaws.

[Endlessnight]

I want to say this and then i'm done.

This is a free forum, the people on here in general, and the moderators in particular, have agreed to do what they do from the goodness of their hearts. No one is making me or you or anyone come here. To start asking about the training the moderators have or haven't received is to me, beside the point. They do what they do because they feel compassion and hope that they might, just by listening to us, make us feel that we are not alone, that there are people that care despite what life has taught us. People disagree, that is human nature, but I don't see the good in picking and picking at this. It will only make things worse, not better. That's how I see it anyway.

[Guest SomethingOrOther]

Well, I can say „this post was aggressive, because you labelled people insensitive in it“.

Or I can say „you’re often aggressive. Please think before you write something next time.“

What’s the difference?

Sorry for picking at it, but I hoped it would do many people good to see a difference. It's about communication and what people react negatively to.

[Calla]

I only keep coming back because I have to defend myself and try and constantly explain my motives. Why should I let people bad mouth me unfairly?

I keep saying I HAVE NOT been harassing and picking on moderators. Just ONCE I asked them to think before they act. Training is not beside the point if someones action could have a devastating effect on someone else in my opinion.

I do what I do out of compassion. And I don't care if you believe that. I'll keep coming here as long as I want. You lot have blown this out of proportion because you can't handle a bit of constructive criticism. It comes with the job of making decisions about other people.

[Calla]

There is no difference and you are more than free to make that comment somethingorother. Because you have freedom of speech just as I do.

I was asking a general group of people to think and not hurt people's feelings. if thats aggressive then yes I most certainly am because it's something I do in general life too. I had a stand up row with a man being rascist in the street the other day because he was shouting out at people. So I told him he was an old bigot and should shut up. yeah I was aggressive in saying that to him but I said it because he was being hurtful to others.

I'll do it again and I'll say it again here if it needs saying.

2 members have just asked people to be more compassionate and empathetic on a thread in the urgent need forum. What's the difference there may I ask?

[Guy Out There]

I think there is more 'feelings being hurt' in this thread than on the whole forum!

Without trying to undermine Calla's original point or the views that any other member expressed in this thread, i think it may be time for people to stop fueling this fire and let it die out, perhaps we can all learn a lesson from this.