Why Was JaiJai Banned?

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

For simply posting a music video on YouTube that didn't even feature any nudity? That's bullshit.

[IrmaJean]

Hi, Jack. My name is Beth.

The video had nothing to do with this. While we always make decisions as a group, I take full responsibility for the banning. Jai was warned, but continued to post disrespectfully. I have a responsibility to try and protect as many members of the community as possible. We want this to be a safe place for our members.

These decisions are not taken lightly. I have agonized over this.

Jai will have access to the site again very shortly. I want the best for her, as I do all members of our community.

[IrmaJean]

I deleted the video as a judgment call. There were close ups of men's genitals (in clothing) that were offensive to me. I was concerned that others might also find it offensive or possibly be triggered by this.

As to the comments in the thread, you're right, they should be altered. I am far from perfect and I make some mistakes. I promise I'm doing my best.

[Guest GingerSnap]

I have watched IrmaJean (Beth) work her tail off for the benefit of others at this website for two years. She does this as a volunteer out of the goodness of her heart. I did not see the video but it sounds inappropriate for the website. I invite all of you questioning Beth to read through the "FAQ" section at the top of the page. IrmaJean has been there for so many people. Per the FAQ: "Censorship will happen from time to time to preserve order within the Community. The Community reserves the right to censor members' comments and contributions when they are judged by Staff or a Moderator to be inappropriate. When it is judged necessary to censor some content, the Community will endeavor to do so in a manner which is transparent to Members. When possible, a rationale will be published explaining why content was removed." Yet another clip: "Members should please show respect for Moderators at all times! Moderation involves work conducted on a volunteer basis for the good of the community and at the risk of making one's self a target for other Member's upset. Members may not always like or agree with what Moderators do, but they should always treat Moderators with respect for their contribution." And, "Pornographic or otherwise sexually exploitive content will not be tolerated within this Community and will be deleted upon discovery. Nevertheless, the Community may contain content that is sexually explicit, reflecting discussion of Member's difficult sexual issues. CenterSite denies responsibility for any damage Members claim to sustain as a result of consuming such material. Members and Readers who may find sexually explicit material to be offensive should not participate in or read content from this Community. ***So, the question I see, was the video presented as a representation of an issue that JaiJai was having. I have seen some of the sexually explicit material that JaiJai posted and it was in violation of the rules beyond a shadow of a doubt. This attack on Beth is inappropriate and uncalled for. Membership is a privilege and not a right - you'll also find that in the FAQ section.

[IrmaJean]

I'm going to reiterate that the video has nothing to do with the banning. I simply "unapproved" it to be on the safe side. I would deem it questionable and didn't want to take any chances with a member becoming triggered.

I deleted photos of nude women (waist up) twice. These were not out on the open boards, but were still visible in blogs and member pages. The vegetable pictures were questionable, but offensive to me, so again, I didn't want to take any chances with other members being offended and/or triggered. I unapproved a thread and several posts that, in my opinion, were inappropriate and sexually explicit.

The question was raised here about the banning and I felt it best to respond. This is not to prevent Jai from voicing her opinions about what happened. She will be free to do that when she returns.

I have been moderating here since April 2010, on a voluntary basis, because I want to help others. Any decisions made are always made with the best of intentions and in order to protect as many members of the community as possible.

[Ralph]

Just dropping in because I was a little surprised by this as well. To be clear I am very grateful to this site and I was unaware that it is such a drain on the few mods. You folks do a great job here and however you run it is your prerogative as the ones who put in the blood sweat and tears to keep it online. I wanted to offer my thoughts because the topic is here and I don't think JaiJai was a troll. Sometimes you need a devil's advocate in the discussion, especially when it's going around in circles.

JaiJai is/was provocative, but on a number of occasions posted some things that I really needed to hear, and the bluntness was the best way for it to get through to me. Sissa was another example of someone who was not always sunshine and roses but had a wisdom and clarity that pierced my self-deception on a number of occasions.

My feeling is that after a few rounds of the "yeah, but..." game on the part of the poster towards multiple people trying to help, it might be time to be a little more blunt and recognize the poster's uncanny commitment to wallowing in his own misery. Thanks to JSR for starting this topic, and thanks Beth for taking the time to explain your thought process.

So, um, where was that sexy video again? (ducks) j/k... this is the lounge after all :cool::cool:

[LaLa]

Hello,

I want to thank to GingerSnap for her post here as she explained it very well, all the reasonings included!

I'm also glad to see that pseudome and Ralph who disagree with Beth's decision are not attacking her and are able to appreciate her work here.

As for the "discussion" about what is and is not triggering and inappropriate: It's very good to have moderators who can be sensitive enough to this kind of content which seems so harmless to the majority but can be very unpleasant for some members. BTW, I cannot give my own opinion about the deleted posts (photos, videos, texts) as I haven't seen any of them (and the link pseudome posted here now (-shouldn't it be deleted, too???) is inaccessible in the country I live in), but I can say that my own "limits" seems to be very close to those of Beth so... she's surely not alone in considering this kind of posts as inappropriate.

[IrmaJean]

My apologies. I shouldn't have made that assumption. I need to sleep.

I did watch the video in question originally in its entirety. I found it to be offensive. I was standing by my decision.

If a post is offensive to you, report it, and it will be dealt with accordingly. There may be times when such posts are missed.

[Guest GingerSnap]

I regularly report posts that do not meet the guidelines of the website or that I think are questionable. I reported the the "red peppers" because I thought it was inappropriate since this did not deal with JaiJai issues other than being inconsiderate of others as did the thread she started about "masturbation". We all have to remember that many people come here to seek a sort of shelter because, more likely than not, people in their lives are already minimizing their concerns. And, yes, wouldn't it be ideal if the solution was "Just get a life and move on."? Unfortunately, it is not that easy. Ask yourself how you would have felt, all of you reading this, if when you posted your issue I would have just said "Get over yourself and get a life." And I have read many of pseudome's posts and he has done an excellent job and I am hoping that he will stay with this forum and not let this one incident end up denying others of his compassion and knowledge. I know how much work it is to think out and type up the kind of responses that he is making. He is trying very hard to meet the needs of everyone else on both sides and that's a tough spot to be in. He does take a beating from those he tries to help but he is like the energizer bunny! He takes a kicking and just keeps ticking! This website can really be frustrating because you just want to reach through the screen sometimes and grab the person by the collar, shake them and say "You're going to listen to me!".

[LaLa]

If a post is offensive to you, report it, and it will be dealt with accordingly. There may be times when such posts are missed.

Yes, that's it!

For instance, I try to avoid threads that could be somehow bad for me, so I don't know that there are, for instance, some with "pedophillic fantasies", as pseudome mentioned! And I don't think a moderator could read everything, that's why the reporting is important.

pseudome:if you haven't actually watched it, i don't think it's fair to make judgments about it

Sorry if I sounded like making judgments.

[Solstice]

Since the right to voice one's opinions and thoughts is near and dear to me, I'm going to chime in. I sincerely hope I can do it without stepping on anyone's toes, because that's not my intent.

I was troubled by Jai Jai being banned. I cannot say that I saw all of the things she posted, or even most of them. But I never saw anything pornographic or reasonably likely to be triggering. Jai is blunt, open about topics that a lot of people are pretty closed-off about, and a bit of a button-pusher (I mean no disrespect by that -- in my opinion, the world needs button-pushers). I sincerely hope that it was something else, something I missed, that resulted in her being banned, not simply her being blunt.

I've seen a lot of things on this forum that upset me deeply, that triggered me, that, honestly, freaked me out pretty badly. I've probably written some things that may have done the same for others. When I see those things, I don't run off to a moderator and report them. I stop looking at them. Stop reading them. No one is forcing us to look at things we don't want to look at.

All of that said, I am not in any way diminishing the job that the moderators in general, and Beth in particular, do. It's a tough job, I know it's done purely on a volunteer basis, and Beth does it with great compassion and kindness. All I'm trying to convey is that I believe that great care should be taken in shutting people down and preventing them from expressing themselves among adults.

[SweetSue]

Just wanted to say that I am truely sorry to hear that JaiJai has been banned. She was a asset to this community, and helped many - myself included.

JaiJai if you are reaing this thread as a guest - then well hun, I just want to wish you all the luck in the world with where ever your life takes you. Take care Jai - Im gonna miss you !!!

[LaLa]

I just want to add that this

I've seen a lot of things on this forum that upset me deeply, that triggered me, that, honestly, freaked me out pretty badly. I've probably written some things that may have done the same for others. When I see those things, I don't run off to a moderator and report them. I stop looking at them. Stop reading them. No one is forcing us to look at things we don't want to look at.

applies to me as well. The only difference is I wouldn't say "a lot of", just "several".

[Guest GingerSnap]

I think the majority of you missed a lot of the things that JaiJai was posting either because they were deleted or she edited and totally changed the post that she had made. Nothing that JaiJai posted regarding her issue(s) that I know of was ever deleted. She posted a number of specifics about her masturbation habits and asked others to do the same and went down and suggested to one of the guys in the Small Penis area to do the same. She posted a link under the Sexual Issues section of a picture of red peppers that were a duplicate of male sex organs and was calling it a "Food Fetish". This is not to mention the rude comments which I did not report. I told her to be careful or she would be banned based on the standards of the website. You can be frank without being rude. I am familiar with the standards and I felt she was not within them. I have no power here but as I will keep saying, I want to maintain the integrity of the website and the examples that I have stated take away from that so I reported them. I would do again. See, I have an advantage, I don't need other people's approval to do what is right. Yeah, that's what it boils down to. This is not a place to come and play with people's emotions as many people are already fragile.

[Solstice]

How is it that you have an "advantage" here? Are you suggesting that others do need other people's approval to do what is right? And, for that matter, who decides what is "right"? If you believe something is "right," does that automatically make it so?

Look, if JaiJai broke the site's rules, she broke the site's rules. If she committed some offense that subjected her to being banned under those rules, then banning her was appropriate. But what I, at least, was trying to point out is that it's important to tread carefully when you start deciding what's offensive and what's not when it comes to free speech. What's offensive to you may not be to others. What constitutes "playing with people's emotions" to you may simply be honesty to others.

[IrmaJean]

I am here and willing to accept my responsibility and/or mistakes in this. Hopefully this is something we can learn from and grow together as a community.

When Jai returns I will do my very best to address any questions she might have or discuss anything she wishes to discuss openly in this thread.

As an aside, I have requested to be removed from the moderating team. This is not something I wish to discuss here, as this thread has a different purpose, but thought everyone should know.

[IrmaJean]

What's offensive to you may not be to others.

It's true that "offensive" may have a different meaning for every individual. Certain things that offend one person may not offend another.

Perhaps I did err too cautious in unapproving the video. I did what I felt best at the time, which is something that I've done throughout.

[Solstice]

Beth, please do not take anything I have written here as being directed at you. It's not. As you say, you did what you felt was best at the time, which is all anyone can do. I admire you very much for your kindness, and for your diligence as a moderator. Your request to be removed as moderator is a loss to this site.

I'm coming at this from a different -- maybe more academic -- perspective. I'm not saying that banning JaiJai was inappopriate, because I can't say that. I didn't see all her posts. What concerns me is the trend I've seen in this thread (and in others) of one or more individuals condemning as "wrong" something someone else posted based only on their personal beliefs, not on a holistic understanding of: (1) the right to speak freely; (2) the adults on this site being capable of deciding what they do and do not look at; and (3) what is best for the site as a whole.

...one more thought, before I shut up. GingerSnap, you referred to playing with peoples' emotions. No question -- it's inappropriate to play with others' emotions. But wouldn't that encompass, potentially, kicking someone off a site to which they came in search of help? Maybe the person does deserve to be kicked off. But again, it's an area to tread carefully, right?

[Ralph]

Well said, ralph. And here :

ROFL. Oh man I did not expect that on this site. Good one.

Noticing the thread took a more serious turn though, I guess if you break the rules and get a warning and still break the rules then you get banned. That's enough of an explanation for me, as long as the warning process involves a way to screen out false positives. Otherwise it makes me scared to post because I might get banned for disagreeing with a mod.

[Ralph]

What's offensive to you may not be to others. What constitutes "playing with people's emotions" to you may simply be honesty to others.

And some of us may just be too emotionally blunted to understand the effect our words might have on others. If most of our communication is non-verbal, it's easy for misunderstandings to occur in a text only medium.

A comedian that I admire greatly said something to the effect that offense is never given; it can only be taken. What offends you is what you decide is worth getting offended over. In other words you are responsible for your own triggers whether you take that responsibility or not. The choice to hand over control to random strangers on the internet is up to the individual.

[Endlessnight]

Guys, since I never saw the posts that Beth mentioned or the pics, I cannot comment on JaiJai being banned.

I do want to ask everyone to please calm down and stop the sniping back and forth. All of us are here because we need help in one way or another, and this kind of arguing will not help us or the forum. In fact, if Beth does stop being a moderator I know this will be a big blow for the forum and for all of us, but again, that is another issue.

As a member of this forum Gingersnap has the right to report to the moderators anything she finds offensive, as do all of us. From there it is up to the moderator to decide the next steps. Do moderators make mistakes? Yes, they do, they are human after all and are here because they too need this forum. Do we need moderators at all? Yes, I think we do. This is a mental health forum, not a chat room. Many people that come on here are fragile, mentally or emotionally or both, and some more than others, do need extra consideration.

Please take a deep breath everyone and remember that all of us are hurting, and if we are not kind to each other who will be?

[IrmaJean]

If a post is offensive to you, report it, and it will be dealt with accordingly.

We had some good discussion about the word "offensive." Perhaps a better way to have written this would have been:

If you feel a post is in violation of board policy, report it, and it will be dealt with accordingly.

[IrmaJean]

Please take a deep breath everyone and remember that all of us are hurting' date=' and if we are not kind to each other who will be? [/quote']

Thank you, Endless. I agree. We cross-posted and I just found your post. I haven't made any final decisions yet.

I do hope we can all learn from this experience.

[LaLa]

Just an idea that emmerged from my thoughts about how to prevent such situations when a moderator feels so bad about her/his decision: What if there was voting in such cases? I mean that at least 3 moderators should agree to ban somebody - and then there would not be ONE who would feel guilty and blame her/him-self for the decission.

[IrmaJean]

There were two of us (danni and myself) that made the decision and it was a decision we made together. Lately, there have been only 2 of us here moderating...Normally we always consult on decisions and make them together as a team. I will say that it was my decision alone to extend the ban after Jai re-registered. We are currently looking for more moderators.