I found myself on the internet today...

[Athena]

I don't know who I am, but this is the closest approximation....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mWfvcbm6TE&feature=related

Then I opened up to people. Now I know what STIGMA feels like. I will go back to my mask and my silence....

[SweetSue]

Hi Athena,

sometimes things suck real bad, and the harsh days just follow each other with out a break ...... constantly silently inside screaming - thats kinda what it feels like for me.

sorry things are harsh for you hun

i hope that you find a way to throw the mask away, speak out and say "stuff you" to the STIGMA.

take care

[Athena]

Thanks for listening Sue, Pseud,

That's funny about the hair. I have the urge to dye mine black and wear red and black all over. Mostly I just do stuff without thinking and notice after the fact like wearing all black on Black Friday. And when I told somebody while on a Qi Gong retreat that I felt like I was in prison and at that moment realized that every single piece of clothing I brought had STRIPES. And in a final effort at catharsis, I caused my hand to look like it had been ripped out of an animal trap. Now I feel like tattooing Medusa on my stomach. Ha! Maybe I'll go make my own video:eek:.

Anyway, I put this thread here instead of the personality disorders thread because I think a lot of people here can relate to this stuff. I'll admit it's more than a little triggering, but at least we can share the sentiments together instead of alone.

Perhaps the only redeeming point of not staying silent is finding out who your friends are (and aren't).

[Athena]

Oooh, that's a good one. You are wise, woman. Have I ever told you I like your signature too? "Love me when I least deserve it because that's when I really need it." I've secretly wanted to steal it for my own...

I'll let you know when I'm ready to give it up:D.

The striped clothes story is funny. Sounds like your subconscious is very much in tune with your emotions.

My life and dreams are rife with symbolism. No wonder I like the TV show "Lost" so much. The character John Locke was actually a real person, who wrote a lot about semiotics, the study of signs, metaphors, symbols, communications. I think he was a psychologist. In the TV show, he concerns himself with all this stuff.

[Athena]

I was listening to this on the way home. Never really listened to the lyrics before. Kinda brought up the same feelings. Not that I'm feeling so bad today. I wish the really beautiful music wasn't so sad. I like it because I don't feel like I'm the only one with these problems, but I can't let it suck me back into them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il9iAiEn5zU

[Lana73]

Watched the first video again, ahhhh I can relate to the whole video and lyrics as well. Was thinking that maybe you can post it in our lounge forum. It is sad, though, but a very real song

[Athena]

Yes, I suspect most people here can relate to it. Maybe we are all 'living on the border' to some degree or another. I'm a little reluctant to post the video in the lounge. Maybe I'll just post the song with a little less depressing video. It was first brought to my attention by Waiting, who used to hang out around here - so it often reminds me of him. "Everybody Hurts" by REM.

[Guest cokeaine]

Every single person in society wears a mask to some degree. Most of the time it has nothing to do with mental illness and more to do with the fact that if you expose your true self to other people, they will try to take advantage of you.

One thing I've learned in 2011 is to not trust MOST people, because they will use you if they can.

[Athena]

Every single person in society wears a mask to some degree. Most of the time it has nothing to do with mental illness and more to do with the fact that if you expose your true self to other people, they will try to take advantage of you.

One thing I've learned in 2011 is to not trust MOST people, because they will use you if they can.

I guess everybody is driven to satisfy their own needs. If you put the needs of others before your own you are called a martyr. It used to be 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. That used to mean - just be nice to everybody and they'll be nice back. Now it means: 1) You're not protecting your boundaries or 2) You're selfish because you expect something back or 3) You're an idiot.

Yup - I agree with you. Get close enough for people to really know you and they will take advantage of you. My problem is that I just can't be mean to others. I can't bring myself to take more than I get. I have an incredible need for mutuality and equality. Give too much, you feel like a doormat. Don't give enough, you're afraid they'll hate you eventually. Just can't seem to get the balance right.

[IrmaJean]

'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

Treat others the way you hope to be treated yourself. In the end we can only control our own behaviors.

There is always risk when we open ourselves up to others, but if we never take those risks, we can't ever find the potential joy of close friendships. When something bad happens and we get hurt, it can disheartening and discouraging, as well as painful. But I also think that's part of living life. Either you engage or you don't...

My personal feelings anyway.

Take care.

[Athena]

Treat others the way you hope to be treated yourself. In the end we can only control our own behaviors.

There is always risk when we open ourselves up to others, but if we never take those risks, we can't ever find the potential joy of close friendships. When something bad happens and we get hurt, it can disheartening and discouraging, as well as painful. But I also think that's part of living life. Either you engage or you don't...

My personal feelings anyway.

Take care.

I agree. That's why I keep to my principles. And I keep getting hurt. I think the trick is to ensure that you are not so broken as to attract the wrong people to you.

[Guest cokeaine]

Take it from someone who is about to be 20 soon, I know how people operate based on observation + my own experiences. Athena is referring to the old school way of doing things which means that if you are nice and if you give, give, give, people will in turn give back to you and everyone will like you. Well, the world doesn't work like that anymore, take it from me, someone who has had constant headaches in the past year alone because of me over-reaching myself to impress other people. Never again.

The world is a certain way, and people are a certain way. The thing that angers me the most is certain people on the Internet spewing nonsense, all so they can look like a 'social butterfly' to other people. It's better to know how things are and be at peace with them and yourself rather than cover your ears and run into a situation where all the signs indicate you will be taken advantage of in the end.

Am I being very negative and gloomy right now? Yes, but that's the way things are. The world ain't full of roses.

Everyone, whether they admit it or not, wants to be accepted by other people. Sometimes, they will let people take advantage of them so they can be accepted. Those people are weak and they need to be shown how things work.

[Athena]

Take it from someone who is about to be 20 soon, I know how people operate based on observation + my own experiences. Athena is referring to the old school way of doing things which means that if you are nice and if you give, give, give, people will in turn give back to you and everyone will like you. Well, the world doesn't work like that anymore, take it from me, someone who has had constant headaches in the past year alone because of me over-reaching myself to impress other people. Never again.

The world is a certain way, and people are a certain way. The thing that angers me the most is certain people on the Internet spewing nonsense, all so they can look like a 'social butterfly' to other people. It's better to know how things are and be at peace with them and yourself rather than cover your ears and run into a situation where all the signs indicate you will be taken advantage of in the end.

Am I being very negative and gloomy right now? Yes, but that's the way things are. The world ain't full of roses.

Everyone, whether they admit it or not, wants to be accepted by other people. Sometimes, they will let people take advantage of them so they can be accepted. Those people are weak and they need to be shown how things work.

Cokeaine,

I think you have the same problem as I do - attracting the wrong people to you. You may also have the problem of not protecting your boundaries. Everybody is trying to satisfy their own needs. The right kind of people recognize that others have needs too and they try to help the other person satisfy theirs too, once they are in a healthy relationship with them. This applies to friends, SOs, and family. I think 'family' is where everything has broken down. Families today are dysfunctional - Mothers are working for pay and have less time and energy to do what needs to be done for the family once they get home. Most fathers of my generation (I'm 49) are still not used to contributing to the household once they get home. My younger friends (late 30's) are still struggling with this equality imbalance. The kids are being ignored or being raised by mentally ill parents. Many of the parents know there is something wrong but they don't know what to do about it because they are caught up in their busy lives. They wouldn't even call themselves mentally ill, but they are. And it hurts the kids because they don't learn how to relate to others. Outside of yelling, withdrawing, bullying, fighting, people pleasing, etc, etc. So we get dysfunctional kids.

So that's what you're working with. Our dysfunctional kids. You are at a mental health site. You already know something's wrong. You're not happy. And that's probably putting it mildly (I don't know your story BTW). My suggestion is that you learn about how things SHOULD work between people. Work on yourself. Learn to spot the 'right' type of people for you. It's not easy. It takes a lot of work and patience. But you are young. Take it from me, living a life of isolation is devastating. Figuring out how to protect your boundaries is life saving, if you're planning on ever getting married. And learning how to attract AND KEEP the right kind of people around you is also essential for a happy and fulfilling life.

Anyway, those are just my observations, lessons from the 'school of hard knocks', from therapy over the last year and from reading, reading, reading. I was suicidal at 17, but because I didn't have the guts to 'check out', I decided to just soldier on by myself. Until I got married - and it was everything you described - I gave, gave, gave and he took, took, took. But I ignored many, many red flags. You will hate isolation and crave company at some point, even if you think you can survive on your own. Better learn the lessons now. I have hope that there are good people out there. I see them every day on these sites. I think that many of them are more mentally healthy than the ones you have problems with IRL. Be choosy. I love the saying "Trust, but verify". Try to be trusting of people but watch for the signs they are not and either address it and resolve it with them or move on. Sometimes people just don't know they've crossed your boundaries. The husband who says "Oh, but you enjoy being with the kids so that doesn't count as work" is (besides being a complete idiot) possibly truly believing it, because he's never been given the opportunity to REALLY help out so has NO IDEA how much work kids are.

Relationships, even healthy ones do take work because our needs to bump up against one another rather frequently. Communication, compassion, negotiation, love, patience, empathy, forgiveness, willingness to sit down and talk about the tough issues - all are required for a healthy relationship. If your partner falls down on any of these, run - they are not worthy. This applies to close friends too.

Anyway, I'll get off my pulpit. I just hate to see somebody isolate themselves and give up because that's what I did for too many years then I ended up paying for it in spades. I'm still not where I need to be. Not by a long shot. But if I stop trying, I know I will just end up digging my own grave.

Good luck to you. I hope some of this helps.

[Guest cokeaine]

Cokeaine,

I think you have the same problem as I do - attracting the wrong people to you. You may also have the problem of not protecting your boundaries. Everybody is trying to satisfy their own needs. The right kind of people recognize that others have needs too and they try to help the other person satisfy theirs too, once they are in a healthy relationship with them. This applies to friends, SOs, and family. I think 'family' is where everything has broken down. Families today are dysfunctional - Mothers are working for pay and have less time and energy to do what needs to be done for the family once they get home. Most fathers of my generation (I'm 49) are still not used to contributing to the household once they get home. My younger friends (late 30's) are still struggling with this equality imbalance. The kids are being ignored or being raised by mentally ill parents. Many of the parents know there is something wrong but they don't know what to do about it because they are caught up in their busy lives. They wouldn't even call themselves mentally ill, but they are. And it hurts the kids because they don't learn how to relate to others. Outside of yelling, withdrawing, bullying, fighting, people pleasing, etc, etc. So we get dysfunctional kids.

So that's what you're working with. Our dysfunctional kids. You are at a mental health site. You already know something's wrong. You're not happy. And that's probably putting it mildly (I don't know your story BTW). My suggestion is that you learn about how things SHOULD work between people. Work on yourself. Learn to spot the 'right' type of people for you. It's not easy. It takes a lot of work and patience. But you are young. Take it from me, living a life of isolation is devastating. Figuring out how to protect your boundaries is life saving, if you're planning on ever getting married. And learning how to attract AND KEEP the right kind of people around you is also essential for a happy and fulfilling life.

Anyway, those are just my observations, lessons from the 'school of hard knocks', from therapy over the last year and from reading, reading, reading. I was suicidal at 17, but because I didn't have the guts to 'check out', I decided to just soldier on by myself. Until I got married - and it was everything you described - I gave, gave, gave and he took, took, took. But I ignored many, many red flags. You will hate isolation and crave company at some point, even if you think you can survive on your own. Better learn the lessons now. I have hope that there are good people out there. I see them every day on these sites. I think that many of them are more mentally healthy than the ones you have problems with IRL. Be choosy. I love the saying "Trust, but verify". Try to be trusting of people but watch for the signs they are not and either address it and resolve it with them or move on. Sometimes people just don't know they've crossed your boundaries. The husband who says "Oh, but you enjoy being with the kids so that doesn't count as work" is (besides being a complete idiot) possibly truly believing it, because he's never been given the opportunity to REALLY help out so has NO IDEA how much work kids are.

Relationships, even healthy ones do take work because our needs to bump up against one another rather frequently. Communication, compassion, negotiation, love, patience, empathy, forgiveness, willingness to sit down and talk about the tough issues - all are required for a healthy relationship. If your partner falls down on any of these, run - they are not worthy. This applies to close friends too.

Anyway, I'll get off my pulpit. I just hate to see somebody isolate themselves and give up because that's what I did for too many years then I ended up paying for it in spades. I'm still not where I need to be. Not by a long shot. But if I stop trying, I know I will just end up digging my own grave.

Good luck to you. I hope some of this helps.

I'll correct you on that one... it's not that I'm not happy, it's that I'm disgruntled with certain things in life that drag me down. It has been proven extensively through many tests and evaluations that I have no mental illness or chemical imbalances whatsoever. The real reason I am on this forum is to put in my 2 cents and to help other people who need the help. It's the same as if I was on a gaming forum, a car forum, etc. this forum is based on certain topics and I feel I can help with those topics.

And although sometimes I feel like giving up (who doesn't?), I always find the resolve to keep going. I have too much pride and ego to actually ever give up totally. The only point I was trying to make is that people *WILL* take advantage of you if they can. It goes back to since we were cavemen (and women). If one caveman sees something the other caveman has that might benefit him, then he will try his hardest to get it. In this modern society that means manipulating and deceiving people. I am not in a mode of mental distress.... I am just saying things the way they are. I would rather someone read my posts and realize how things are rather than go through a lifetime of making stupid mistakes they could have prevented. I'm almost 20 and I feel like I myself have been through a lifetime of stupid mistakes I could have prevented.

I don't want to live in isolation. I never said that I wanted to and I never would want to. I want to selectively be around good people who do not use their minds and bodies for the sole purpose of taking what others have for their own gain.

[Athena]

The only point I was trying to make is that people *WILL* take advantage of you if they can. It goes back to since we were cavemen (and women). If one caveman sees something the other caveman has that might benefit him, then he will try his hardest to get it. In this modern society that means manipulating and deceiving people.

Well, I think we evolved out of that state for a while, perhaps we have 'devolved' in the last 30 years or so though.

I don't want to live in isolation. I never said that I wanted to and I never would want to. I want to selectively be around good people who do not use their minds and bodies for the sole purpose of taking what others have for their own gain.

Sounds like you've figured things out and it's now a matter of applying it.

[Guest cokeaine]

Yes we have, and no we haven't. A lot of our behaviour as humans traces back to our roots of our origin as a species. We adapted those behaviours as our brains struggled to cope with the environment around us, and we acted like that for many thousands (millions?) of years. Human behaviour you see today is just an 'advanced' form of how we behaved long ago. This is what I was taught in high school anthro and sociology classes, it is quite simple really. People who have higher IQ's and a more mature state of mind tend to be less emotional and base their actions off of reason and logic while people who are less intelligent tend to base their actions off of emotion and self gain.

Now as for applying it, well Athena, that's hard. I have tried for a long time to find good people but they just seem very hard to find. I am a certain way and it's hard to get along with people who are another way. I can't fake my personality so I fit in with other people, I can't do it.

[Athena]

People who have higher IQ's and a more mature state of mind tend to be less emotional and base their actions off of reason and logic while people who are less intelligent tend to base their actions off of emotion and self gain.

I don't think I'd base it on the amount of intellectual intelligence, I'd say it has more to do with emotional intelligence. I've seen a lot of highly intelligent people act for their own self gain. Bernie Madoff, Elliot Spitzer, even Bill Gates has done some really mean stuff (selling goods with toxic parts unfit for American consumption to the third world).

Now as for applying it, well Athena, that's hard. I have tried for a long time to find good people but they just seem very hard to find. I am a certain way and it's hard to get along with people who are another way. I can't fake my personality so I fit in with other people, I can't do it.

I think that good people are often not as flamboyant in general. They are not attention getters because they are comfortable in their own skin. They don't need others to tell them they're OK. They don't need to say, "come look at the car I'm driving, the house I've got, the beautiful blond I've got, the people I know, etc etc." They may also be harder to get to know because they are not constantly out there promoting themselves. So if you are on the quiet side and you want to meet good people, you have to step out of your comfort zone and get to know people who may be a bit on the quiet side too and see if they will open up to you. At least, that's where I'm at in my thinking.

[IrmaJean]

I think it's easy to get get caught up with trying too hard, though maybe simply being ourselves is the most challenging thing of all. Be true to yourself and hopefully the pieces fall into place.

The only point I was trying to make is that people *WILL* take advantage of you if they can.

I have tried for a long time to find good people but they just seem very hard to find.

It sounds as though you've been hurt in the past and are carrying those painful memories with you. I'm more in the idealistic camp of believing that people are, for the most part, good. I am aware that some will take advantage, but I don't expect that. I go forth being myself and try to do my part. Well, at least that is what I hope I am doing. What I value won't change because of the actions of others. I think it's good (though not always easy) to keep an open mind that new experiences may be different.

Take care.

[Athena]

I think it's easy to get get caught up with trying too hard, though maybe simply being ourselves is the most challenging thing of all. Be true to yourself and hopefully the pieces fall into place.

For me, this is the hardest part. One has to know who they are before they can be true to themself. If your parents have told you that you are all sorts of bad things, which you are only now discovering was wrong programming, it takes a while to figure out who you truly are. For example, if they tell you "Oh you're just reserved, that's your nature", like it's an unchangeable fact, then proceed to heap praises on outgoing people, and criticize shy people, then they've essentially said you're not as good as them. Defective. When in fact, being reserved is simply a symptom of being depressed or not socialized or both. It is in fact covering up who you are. It is not who you are. So if you are buried so deep in there, you can't get out, then you are unknown even to yourself, if that makes any sense.

I think it's good (though not always easy) to keep an open mind that new experiences may be different.

If I didn't believe this, I wouldn't be here.

[IrmaJean]

I see what you’re saying, Athena. I like to think of self-discovery and awareness as unfolding all of the time. We are always capable of change and new growth. If you have adjusted to coping with external pressures from parents or others, it may be difficult to uncover the true you beneath the layers you’ve built up around yourself. This is one way that therapy…when it’s working…can be immensely helpful. We all need that space of safety and comfort to explore and discover ourselves.

I am true to myself when I respond freely here with what my heart wants to express. I don’t stifle it for fear others won’t understand, accept, or hear me, or that they may even reject my words. I am (mostly) okay enough with myself to just do it. Still working some on that. When I first came here, I would often delete if no one responded. I needed the reflection and acceptance. I’m not perfect with this by any means, but I am getting better. I think in part because the members here are so accepting, it has helped me to find my voice and give power to it.

I think it’s also about understanding yourself, being patient and kind to yourself, recognizing your own needs and listening to your feelings. So many of us are still learning how to take care of ourselves. Me too.

Life is challenging.

Take care.

[Athena]

I'm glad you understand IJ. It really is debilitating to be told that what you consider to be the dead part of you is actually the real you. I suppose that is the reason for the video at the beginning of this thread. I don't think people see that part of me here, or when they see a glimpse I think they kind of go "Hey, where the heck did that come from?" I often express myself better in writing and sometimes that is in fact the only way I can express myself. So I suppose who I feel I really am comes out here. Also as you say, the people here are so accepting so the fear factor is much less, if it's even there at all.

[Ralph]

I often express myself better in writing and sometimes that is in fact the only way I can express myself. So I suppose who I feel I really am comes out here.

Same here. For me the key factor is having a delete button.

For me, this is the hardest part. One has to know who they are before they can be true to themself.

I'd been struggling with that question for a while. I watched a movie not to long ago where one of the lines was something like, part of growing up is deciding what type of person you want to be. The implication being that we don't find out who we are, we decide. Now, if only I could decide... I guess I'm somewhat borderline in that respect, the unstable personality symptom really makes it hard to make future plans.

[eppursimuove]

u know lately i cant even read an entire sentence i get tired and frustrated i dont seem to even understand what i read and i read this post when it first started but now its like i whant to follow it but i cant i think ill read a small part everyday. i cant focus at all i already read a massive post from someone on the new members area and my brain got tired but i wish u the best for this 2012, dont let it get to u.

i hope ure fellin fine.

[Athena]

u know lately i cant even read an entire sentence i get tired and frustrated i dont seem to even understand what i read and i read this post when it first started but now its like i whant to follow it but i cant i think ill read a small part everyday. i cant focus at all i already read a massive post from someone on the new members area and my brain got tired but i wish u the best for this 2012, dont let it get to u.

i hope ure fellin fine.

I'm not too bad at the moment, thanks Epp.

Yah, I know how it is with the long posts...and English is my FIRST language. If you really want to fry your brain, try group chat with a bunch of people you just met. I just answered somebody's question to somebody different, got an Irish bloke mixed up with an Englishwoman and I manage to confuse the heck out of everybody. Just blame the BEER and TV LOL:D.

I wish you the best for 2012 too Epp.

[Athena]

Same here. For me the key factor is having a delete button.

That's part of it. But even on instant messaging, I'm still better than in conversation. Maybe it's some kind of 'slow down' effect as a signal has to travel from my brain, down my arms to my hands. Funny thing, I've wondered why I can have a crappy memory, not remember a single note on the piano (in my head), but yet my fingers can still play the piece once they've memorized it. Weird. Sometimes when my brain is fried, that's the only thing I can do (besides sleep).

I'd been struggling with that question for a while. I watched a movie not to long ago where one of the lines was something like, part of growing up is deciding what type of person you want to be. The implication being that we don't find out who we are, we decide. Now, if only I could decide... I guess I'm somewhat borderline in that respect, the unstable personality symptom really makes it hard to make future plans.

I think decisions are super hard for us to begin with. I can decide I want to be all sorts of things. The problem is choosing, and thus possibly losing out on something you didn't choose. The other problem is trying to figure out what you are reasonably capable of. Sometimes I reach too high (poor judgement of my own abilities), sometimes too low (when I feel I'm practically useless).

PS: Happy 2012 Ralph. Hope it's a good year.