Recruitment operation

[Guest ASchwartz]

Hello Born,

Are you really talking about anxiety problems or something more related to Bipolar Disorder, Major Depression or something similar?

Do you take any medications, do you abuse drugs and alcohol, and are you in psychotherapy?

Allan:)

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello Born,

You had said that others could ask you questions so I thought I'd ask you a few. If you decided that you'd rather not answer, that's okay.

I was curious about your friends -- the ones who live in the 2nd dimension. I suppose I'm curious to know how they came into your life and why. Part of me is wondering if maybe something terribly hurtful or frightening happened first because I've heard of that happening but maybe there was some other reason.

Another part of me is wondering if perhaps your friends are a little like the "characters" I encountered during my own experience. For me, that experience came to it's own conclusion and I found it very helpful afterward to interpret that experience through a Jungian lens. I thought that experience was of vital importance and I wasn't willing to pretend it was unimportant or should be dismissed as something as meaningless as a "delusion". I learned a very great deal from that experience, it's something that's different but also something I found very valuable. As a result, I can understand why your friends would be so important to you.

I should add, I didn't read all of this discussion although I read most of it. I was pleased to see that Sam came back because there seemed to be a good connection there and I think it's important to have people in our life we agree with, get along with, feel a common ground with. I was saddened to read of the situation David went through with his wife. I thought he was being honest too and his family's situation was a painful one.

I read your comments about the medications too and your resistance to them. I also read Luna's comments about how helpful they have been for her. I've heard other people identify medication as something that helps them but I've also heard others relate that it didn't help them. For the most part, if people say it helps them I believe them and when people say it didn't help them, I believe them. Overall, whenever I am talking to people about meds I'm usually less concerned with whether or not they're taking any as I am with how they're doing. Some people function better with medication and some people do not.

Meantime, I know of two young men I thought you'd be interested to hear more about because both of them were considered to be severely mentally ill at one point in their lives and both of them are now recovered and neither of them use meds. The important thing is they have demonstrated that they can function well without the medication and I think that's the most important thing -- how well a person is functioning, not whether or not they're taking meds. Anyway, one of those young men is now a psychologist by the name of Rufus May. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia when he was around 18. The other young man is named Steve Morgan. He works as a peer consultant and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder as a young man.

I'm not sharing their names with you because I think you'll be able to get together for coffee but rather, I think they could serve as possible mentors to you because both of them are doing what you want to be doing: helping other people, making friends, living a healthy, loving, functioning life... without medication.

You can find lots on the net about Rufus May, here's just one link: Wikipedia - Rufus May

And here's a great little interview with Steve Morgan. Click on the link and scroll down until you see the young man with the beaming smile: NYT: Patient Voices -Steven Morgan There are four images that come with that presentation. My favorite is the third one -- an image that shows Steve Morgan displaying some books by Carl Jung. He found Jungian approaches to be helpful to him too.

~ Namaste

[Born to Perish]

Nice to talk to you spiritual_emergency and you too ASchwartz! No to all of the questions from ASchwartz. None of that stuff really applies to me anymore since I stopped taking my medication and I must have mistook what I was feeling for a different kind of depression. See I was depressed, because I was told I was wrong and that I could not be myself, but now that I am being myself I am not depressed anymore. Now time for spiritual_emergency! No nothing terrible happened to me or anything, they just appeared to me when I was 5 years old and they have always been here since then. I am sorry to say I don't know much about the Jungian thing however thank you for sharing the information with me about Steve Morgan and Rufus May. You are both very nice and it was nice to talk to you! Now are you ready to get peppy?! From the halls of gorgeous pep house sisters bond and share, we've got spirit, pep and good taste not to mention awesome hair!!! Excellent! She remembered me. YAY!!!!! . I am only kidding around by the way, that is what I do for a living! Born to Laugh, play and Perish!:cool: ......:eek: Luna are you out there? Hey can anyone answer my question above, that'd be great! The question is : Is anyone familiar with the condition in which I am talking about, you know the whole demon inside me thing?

[spiritual_emergency]

Born to Laugh: See I was depressed, because I was told I was wrong and that I could not be myself, but now that I am being myself I am not depressed anymore.

This seems to be one of the benefits of peers; if you are in an environment where your own experiences might be quite different from others, you often feel like you don't fit in or can't be accepted. If you are in an environment where you share similar experiences with others, you don't feel quite so odd anymore.

The question is : Is anyone familiar with the condition in which I am talking about, you know the whole demon inside me thing?

There is a concept similar to that in Jungian psychology -- it's called The Shadow. It can have a demonic and evil feeling to it.

Meantime, I'm glad to know you enjoyed the links about Rufus and Steven. Here's a bit of a film clip from a documentary Rufus did called: The Doctor Who Hears Voices. Do be aware that the very beginning starts with him imitating the sorts of things that some people may hear and that can be off-putting if you don't know it's coming. After that though, it gets very interesting.

Here's the clip if you (or anyone else) wants to watch:

PS: If you do watch those clips, feel free to share your thoughts on them. The first time I tried to watch it, it wouldn't load up so I'm only getting to see more than a few minutes of it now. I find I'm enjoying some parts and I have mixed feelings about other parts.

[Born to Perish]

Thank you Spiritual_emergency. The video was cool, and a little sad. The statistics and rates of death amoung our people were sad. I think it was cool that he thinks that people should "love" mad people, that is so awesome to me, he was right on, I believe in that too.

[spiritual_emergency]

Hmmm. I'm still watching that documentary. It gets intense in some parts. I find it stirs up some tension in me -- there's times I'm not sure if what he's doing is for the best and other times, I see that he's trying to help her in a way she wouldn't be helped if she was using mainstream approaches.

Meantime, I thought maybe I'd share a story with you that touches a bit on what you'd said earlier -- the whole demon inside me thing? I'll tell it as if it is a story but it's also a special story because it's about someone who became a friend of mine.

Once upon a time there was a young man who wore black. And under the black he wore white. I met the black side of him first and there was something about that side that I found just a little bit frightening -- because he reminded me a little bit of someone else who'd once frightened me. Nonetheless, he only reminded me of that person a bit and he was also very intelligent and very, very funny.

So... we started talking and I got to know him a bit better. I especially got to know the white side. The white side of him was one of the most beautiful people you could ever meet. He was very sensitive and caring and kind in many, many ways. Sometimes, he couldn't always see that though and he did hear voices at times that said really awful things to him.

Meantime, there came a point in our friendship when the white side of him had to do something that he was scared to do. I asked him if there was anyone who could maybe help him do that thing or even do it for him. Then, the black side of him stepped forward and said that he would do it.

I felt like I suddenly understood why that black side of him was there. That was the part that took the pain and the hurt. That was the part that cracked jokes all the time. That was the part that protected him. It was really amazing to see that, not just for me, but also for my young friend who suddenly felt like this one part of him that he sometimes said he couldn't stand, could actually be so brave and caring for him. After that, his white side and his black side seemed to actually become friends -- to learn from each other and to take care of each other.

Meantime, something else that young man told me was that he'd had a grandmother who really loved him and even though she'd passed away years before, just thinking about her could bring a warm glow to his heart. Somewhere in there it seemed that he started to hear his grandmother's voice and that helped to take away from the other voices he heard that could be so cruel and unkind and unfair.

A few months later I came across this video and it really reminded me of that young man and his grandmother. This video makes me smile everytime I watch it but I also smile every time I think of that young man.

Music of the Hour:

[Born to Perish]

I enjoyed the story, it's kind of sad at the end though. I can relate to this because the I have 2 sides of me that are for protection, one is the craziness gene who is all over the place and crazy and the other is the demon who is spiteful and terrible. They both act as guardians to me and my feminine side. The demon tries to make me believe that I need him to survive, the craziness gene just wants to have fun and do crazy stuff, but his body gyrates at abnormally fast speeds do to hyperactivity and he can become quite the terror. The Demon is Legend the craziness gene is Jack. Jack is BAAAACK! So that's the way it goes with me. Have any questions?

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello again Born to Laugh

I'm glad you enjoyed that story. I think many people can identify with it because all of us can have parts of ourselves that serve to protect our most vulnerable sides.

What I also like about that story is it touches, just a bit on the idea that even something that might appear to be bad at first glance can still have some goodness in it. It reminds me of a painting I saw one time... it actually showed a little demon and the demon's shadow was an angel. I got a kick out of that.

Meantime, I don't know if you know this, but at a certain point in my own "experience" I realized I had to "kill the devil". I was very concerned about this because after thinking about it, I realized that if I used any sort of violence or hatred, I would only be making "evil" stronger. Then, I would lose and the devil would win. Finally, after thinking about it some more, I decided that the perfect weapon would be pure love because that would strengthen the good side and then, the good side would win. It's only fair to say that I didn't think I possessed love that was that pure so I more or less went to "god" and said, "I really need some help here," and god gave me a weapon that was made of the purest form of love possible. Then, I put that right into the devil's heart.

I've thought about that part many times since and I feel I made the right decision. Meantime, if your own demons start to give you too much of a hard time, maybe you could shoot some love rays at them. If you don't feel your love is strong enough to do that you can always borrow some from someone who has some to spare.

~ Namaste

[Born to Perish]

I enjoyed that as well, very cool spiritual_emergency. That makes a lot of sense and it's very interesting. I can see how that would make you feel good, I guess I should try it sometimes huh? Sometimes the demon does scare me, but I suppose he is good at weight lifting... Well I hope to hear from you again sweetie! Feel free to come by and write any time, hasta la vista bola!!!:cool: Luna where are you??? Hey you know what? Samspruce hasn't came back either. What a drag. Hey guess what I didn't know that you could have a friend list on here, that is so cool, I just added Samspruce I hope he knows! Hey anyone know what a blog is?

[Born to Perish]

Luna are you out there? I just made friends with you isn't that great! I think I know a way for everyone to get better acquainted with me. I am going to give everyone my new email address. It is: BorntoDie1001@yahoo.com. Okay well I hope to get many email's from all of you especially Samspruce, Luna and Spiritual_emergency! My best friends! I trust you with my heart! Isn't that swell! Love you guys! Please come back to this area and say a few words so I know you are out there okay please Luna and Samspruce and Spiritual_emergency?! All others are welcomed as well come one come all!

[spiritual_emergency]

Namaste, Born to Laugh/Love/Perish/Die.

I have some more questions for you. Naturally, you can choose to answer them or not...

#1: What do you want to be when you grow up?

#2: What's one of your favorite songs?

#3: I read that you like writing and I was curious what you liked about it.

[Born to Perish]

I want to be a writer of movies, my favorite type of music is rock, my favorite song is Jack is Back, and what I love about writing is the fact that the words just flow out of me when I do it, it's like magic or something, I love it! Oh my gosh so love it! I also like the ideas I come up with when it comes to writing. Hey can anyone tell me how to write private messages?

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello again Born to Laugh/Love/Perish/Die,

To send a private message to someone, I think you can click on their name and a drop down menu will offer you that option.

I want to be a writer of movies...

Are there any movie writers you know of that you especially like?

I also like the ideas I come up with when it comes to writing.

Everyone has their own slice of talent, maybe yours will be writing.

my favorite song is Jack is Back

Who sings that?

~ Namaste

PS: This is one of my favorite songs:

[Born to Perish]

That's nice! No I don't have any writers whom of which I idolize or admire, because I don't know any, I think Steven Speilberg is one, but I could be wrong. The song Jack is Back is actually a song by Jack Black, you know the actor. He actually makes music, I couldn't believe it. It was a great song and it really gets me going every time I hear it! Ha ha Awesome-ville! In the red corner! Lol! Thank you for the information sweetie, you rock out loud!:cool:

[Luna-]

Hey Born,

I'm always here reading your thread and right now I'm just listening to what spiritual emergency has to say, it's very good stuff.

You write well (but I think I might have said that before).

[Born to Perish]

You have arrived... YOU HAVE ARRIVED! HA HA HA! Hi Luna I'm happy to see you, do you think you will be able to use the email address I gave you above? I'm giving it to everyone I know so that we can talk over there as well. It would be grand! Any ways I wanted to let you know that I missed you while you were gone and I'm glad to have you back, also I'm noticing a pattern here, I ask a question and then well.... IT DOESN'T GET ANSWERED!:mad: HA HA HA:D So sorry, I'm not mad, I just thought that'd be funny, but if you guys would kindly answer some of them that'd be great, of course you don't have to, I'm not trying to pressure anyone or anything. FOR THE LOVE OF! Oh sorry, well see you next time baseball fans.

[Luna-]

Please would you repeat the question Born? My brain cells are sulking and don't want to talk to each other. *wink*

[Born to Perish]

Here are the questions: Do you know what a blog is? Do you have any questions about the demon inside me? And will you implement (use) my email address?

[spiritual_emergency]

Born to Laugh/Love/Perish/Die: The song Jack is Back is actually a song by Jack Black, you know the actor. He actually makes music, I couldn't believe it. It was a great song and it really gets me going every time I hear it! Ha ha Awesome-ville!

This song?

Jack Black ~ Back in Black

lol! That is an awesome song! I like Jack Black too. I can't say I'm a HUGE fan because I don't watch very many movies but I have seen some of his stuff and I think he's a fantastic comedian. Did you see that one where he played a Mexican wrestler? I laughed out loud many times over. It was hilarious! Meantime, there's something else I like about Jack Black and I'll tell you what that is...

He's not a Hollywood hunk. He's not a chiseled sculpture of perfection. He's got a little bit of extra weight on him. He's probably got zits! But he's still out there, creating his own place among Hollywood's Bold and Impeccably Beautiful. It's almost like he's coming out and saying, "Yeah, I know I'm not Brad Pitt but I'm not interested in being Brad Pitt. Let Brad be Brad and let me be who I am because I can still rock your socks and do my thing to make you laugh and leave you with an impression just by being true to that which I am... which is not Brad."

I like that. The idea of people getting comfortable with exactly who they are. He's a good mentor, I think. And that's a rockin' good tune.

~ Namaste

[Born to Perish]

That's the one! Right wow you sure are an interesting person spiritual_emergency and I know a lot of interesting people! What you said makes sense, Jack Black is more laid back than the others! Rocking on the drums! WOW PRAISE HIM!!!!! So sorry got carried away again lol! I am full of life as usual! Can you feel the heat and are you ready to get peppy?! From the halls of gorgeous pep house sisters bond and share, we've got spirit, pep and good taste not to mention awesome hair! Excellent! :confused: Hey um... Luna... ummm! Ha ha! Luna are you out there, I understand you may be busy, but I just wanted to remind you of the questions again. Don't get mad get glad! NO:mad: Yes:D! Ha ha ha sooooo cute! I'll be waiting bestie!

[spiritual_emergency]

Re: Back in Black...

Born to Laugh/Love/Perish/Die: What you said makes sense, Jack Black is more laid back than the others! Rocking on the drums! WOW PRAISE HIM!!!!! So sorry got carried away again lol! I am full of life as usual!

I like your sense of wonder, Born. (If you were Scandinavian, we could call you Bjorn. ) Einstien once said, "Never lose a holy curiosity," and I think what he meant by that was to be open to the world, to engage with it, to allow it to sweep you off your feet from time to time whether it's from another person, or an idea, or maybe, a beautiful moment in nature. If I'm interesting (I'm actually very quiet in my offline life), but if I'm interesting it's because I do like to engage with my curiosities, walk with them and learn from them.

One of the things that secretly thrills me is quantum physics but it's so vast and there's so much that needs to be learned, I feel all I can ever do is dabble in it -- like a child who splashes in the waves at the water's edge but still has fun doing so. I also love music and the music I share is often, deeply meaningful to me. Here's a song that sort of mixes up my love of the larger universe with some philosophical concepts. This song makes me think of Kali -- she's a female form of divinity and she showed up in that experience of mine. She is black as black can be. I guess that's been part of my own learning experience -- to discern the depths of darkness.

... We will begin with the color black. Black is the color that contains all colors. If you took all of the colors of the rainbow and combined them your resulting mix would be black in color. Metaphorically speaking then - it is possible for black to represent all things in their beginning stage. Black is the color, or the substance, from which all things manifest. Out of the black depths of space - stars, suns and planets form. The universe was once, according to scientists, a place that was dark and void of light. There was a black dust that hung like a mist throughout the universe. Slowly this dust coagulated into larger pieces. Soon the pieces begin to collect and grow, compression and gravity were the result. Over time enough of this material eventually formed into a dense sphere. This sphere began to compress and pressure within its core beginning to manifest. Soon the core began to collapse in on itself. Eventually this collapsing state began a nuclear reaction. This nuclear reaction spread throughout the mass of this compressed sphere and ignited it, turning it into the first star, the first sun. Out of this dark, dense and black material - light was formed.

Source: In the Beginning

Music of the Hour:

See also:

- The Dark Mater of the Universe

- The Experience of Schizophrenia

[Born to Perish]

Thank you Spiritual_emergency. I wonder if Luna has grown tired of me. It would make sense. I feel sorry for her if she is going through something, I wish I knew. Oh my poor friend is in trouble and I can't do anything to help. Her responses have been quite rare as of late, I sure hope she's okay.

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello Born,

I recall one of the other members saying that Luna sometimes had access difficulties so I wouldn't worry too much. I'm sure that everything is fine.

Personally, I have a way of dissappearing from places for months at a time. It's not that I'm in trouble, it's just that that's what I do -- I follow the conversations, not the location. I can also be very busy at times in my offline life: work, children, chores, visitors, taking time to myself.

I'm very grateful to many people I've met in environments like this one. A great deal of my support through my own crisis has come through such places. I know that others have the power to shape your life through nothing more than some kind words (and sometimes, some unkind words). Sometimes those people are only in your life for a very short period of time, sometimes longer. I can't speak for Luna of course but speaking for myself, I will probably be moving on soon because that's what I do. Sometimes I cycle back around to a place, sometimes I don't. It all depends on where the conversations take me.

Still, I often remember the people that I've spoken with. I've learned a lot from them and hopefully, they, from me.

~ Namaste

[Born to Perish]

Hail spiritual_emergency I enjoyed your company, I will patiently await Luna's arrival. I love thee well and bid thee adieu if thou shall not return. So long, don't fall out of touch.

Life is an illusion- Born to Perish:cool:

[Luna-]

I will patiently await Luna's arrival. I love thee well and bid thee adieu if thou shall not return.

Thy words are most touching, kind Sir

I was away from the forum for a bit. I have not become tired of you. What's to become tired of? Will reply to your three questions a bit later - just have a few things to get done before then.

Luna